Guild Wars 2

You are forced to play nothing but bursty bullcrap in tournament or some ranged BS that shares poisons.

It figures though every MMO always kittens the assassin class because people are to stupid to understand how they work.

Heartseeker build is a completel joke and lacks any skill and who the hell wants to play that? Yes spam one button, this is GW2 not WoW. I want to be able to actually play the game. Condition damage build are great but you are killed long before the bleeds do anything to your target, not to mention almost every class seems to be able to clear them without thinking.

The build I currently have gives me 23k HP, 1.5k armor, 2.3k attack(1.1k weapon damage), a ton of dodge and stealth, and over all great mobility and consent damage. Yet a 13k HP thief can come in and still kill me in 2 seconds. REALLY?! Not to mention a Warrior with 24k HP can kill me even faster.

Every other class has great survivablity, and skills that complement each other the thief really doesn’t. I feel that they tried to give this class way to much and not enough reasons to use them.

If i wanted to play a ranger I would, why do i have shortbow? Why is P/P completely useless and really is used for unload and thats it? Why does heartseeker miss 90% of the time? Why does LDB and HS root you in the ground? Why does half throwing skills never work and say obstructed when clearly they are in LOS?

All this stuff has really made me hate the class and the game and I want to like but why play a class when you can play other classes that do everything the thief can do but better and even do more damage and survive longer?

I do not want to play different class but the thief is not what it should be. That is all I have to say.

Only reason I play Thief is because it doesn’t use cooldowns. Cooldowns are an uglykitten flaw that ruins every MMO. Cooldowns should have been eliminated a LONG time ago. I can’t stand them. It’s so… pre-defined for what you’re going to do. “I just used this skill so in 20 seconds I can use this skill.”

It’s stupid and I wish Anet would have made every class like the Thief. (However a “Stamina” bar makes more sense) “It should be, I just used this skill but now I can’t use this skill because my stamina is too low, so I’ll use this skill instead.” That’s more realistic.

Anyway… yeah. The game kind of seems like a beta still but it’s understandable.

Bazeleel.8219:

You are forced to play nothing but bursty bullcrap in tournament or some ranged BS that shares poisons.

It figures though every MMO always kittens the assassin class because people are to stupid to understand how they work.

Heartseeker build is a completel joke and lacks any skill and who the hell wants to play that? Yes spam one button, this is GW2 not WoW. I want to be able to actually play the game. Condition damage build are great but you are killed long before the bleeds do anything to your target, not to mention almost every class seems to be able to clear them without thinking.

The build I currently have gives me 23k HP, 1.5k armor, 2.3k attack(1.1k weapon damage), a ton of dodge and stealth, and over all great mobility and consent damage. Yet a 13k HP thief can come in and still kill me in 2 seconds. REALLY?! Not to mention a Warrior with 24k HP can kill me even faster.

Every other class has great survivablity, and skills that complement each other the thief really doesn’t. I feel that they tried to give this class way to much and not enough reasons to use them.

If i wanted to play a ranger I would, why do i have shortbow? Why is P/P completely useless and really is used for unload and thats it? Why does heartseeker miss 90% of the time? Why does LDB and HS root you in the ground? Why does half throwing skills never work and say obstructed when clearly they are in LOS?

All this stuff has really made me hate the class and the game and I want to like but why play a class when you can play other classes that do everything the thief can do but better and even do more damage and survive longer?

I do not want to play different class but the thief is not what it should be. That is all I have to say.

Dude, try playing S/D power/crit or P/D condition based ( acro+shadow arts).

They’re the only sets that actually require skill to be played.

Leave pistol whipping and HS spam to the noobs.

Ill give that a try I am just so fed up with being let down with my class type

Yeah, if you get killed by one of those burst Thief builds, you just need to get better. It’s not THAT difficult to survive if you just keep an eye out, in much the same way that when going into BGs in WoW, you need to keep on your toes to watch out for potential stealthing Rogues.

Try another build, dude. Go for a well rounded hybrid, making you unpredictable & strong against most any specialization that could counter you. I have posted an example build idea of this in the build sticky.

Can I have your stuff?

If you are having trouble surviving I would go put at least 15 points into acrobatics for the increased health and dodging ability…I’m going with a D/D – SB high crit hybrid build with 30 points in crit, 10 in deadly arts, and 15 in acro and tricks. This has helped me survive longer in both pve and pvp situations.

Bazeleel.8219:

Ill give that a try I am just so fed up with being let down with my class type

You should try my bleed spec out, it’s different from the majority of builds and somewhat hard to play, but once you get the hang of it it works vs almost anything.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYAQRAoY6alUmiP3dy9E9JFCXBjy7xXRWhlODaqB7FA;T4AgyCpogxAjAGrPOYkwsWYswxjtHPQmeA

And here’s a pvp movie I made few weeks back with that build:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKHdpbyNpVU

There are defo more builds around then the bursty builds. I’ve played my bleed build with D/D & P/P since 2nd beta and it works wonders. It surprises me that more people arn’t using it.
Full out condition damage, and you can stack up to 20 stacks pretty easily, if you nail everything you can get to 25 but that doesn’t happen often. Every bleed ticks for something like 120, and you down people prettykittenfast with 20 bleeds up!

Also P/P is awesome for condition builds, #1 from stealth adds 5 bleeds, normal #1 adds one bleed #5 basically makes you immune to damage and headshot is awesome for interrupting heals and just daze them til they die to your bleeds so I’ve no idea why you’re saying that P/P are useless.

Also, going for a tanky build doesn’t mean you’ll automatically survive a burst, you clearly have to dodge the damage dealing attacks :P

No offence but I think it’s just a learn to play issue here =/

I take issue with two things:

1. They die way too easily for a class that is supposed to be able to function effectively in melee range, period. I don’t know if it’s Medium armor not being effective enough, or their health being too low, or what the deal is, but it makes them frustrating to play in PvE and forces you to rely on the shortbow too much. To a degree, this is a l2p issue, but there is also an issue when you are in a zerg and routinely get one-shotted. Thieves need a modest Health/defense boost to be effective meleers in PvE content, end of story. They could counteract this by reducing some of their burst potential which makes them too deadly in pvp.

2. They have too little variety in their weapon options and several of the skills they do have are rather lackluster. This leads to poor versatility and consequently pigeon-holing gamplay. Thieves are probably more one-trick pony than any other class in the game, which is both unnecessary and nonsensical.

I do, however, take huge issue with this statement from the OP: “If i wanted to play a ranger I would, why do i have shortbow?”

This is not WoW, and that’s a good thing. Other classes besides ranger can use ranged weapons, there’s no reason thieves shouldn’t be able to use shortbows. In the same vein, rangers are not “ranged weapon masters”, they are wilderness roamers and general nature-oriented fighters. In short, this game was not built around the rather half-witted concept that classes should be classified as “melee” or “ranged”, but rather the classes are designed to include mechanically anything that makes sense conceptually. A shortbow makes sense for the thief concept. It’s just that they should have other viable options for group events.

I agree with some of your points but I think you may want to analyze your playstyle and less on the build. If you’re bull rushing opponents or wading into the middle of a firefight, you’re doing it wrong and probably should have rolled a warrior instead. That aside, thieves do have some issues to work through but there are enough builds out there that we’re viable in plenty of situations. Personally, I’m running a 19k condition/toughness build with 30 in shadow arts/ 30 trickery and 10 in deadly arts for mug. My utilities are blinding powder, shadow refuge, and caltrops with dagger storm as my ult. Full set of undead sigils with force/agony on the daggers and agony/leeching on my pistols. Yes, conditions can be purged but I can re-apply them fast enough that it’s a non issue and have enough toughness and vitality (Carrion/Knights Jewel) to go toe to toe with mostly anyone. This build seems to have the most difficult with burn engineers and necros, everyone else bleeds out on the floor while I have 3 (4 with CnD) stealth abilities to use for escape.

Just saying, look at the bigger picture and try a few changes before you say kitten it.

I personally have been running the “burst” 30 Shadow, 30 Crit, 10 trickery build. Every 45 seconds when my cool downs are up I literally know i can kill almost anyone in about 1.5 seconds (gotta love haste).

Oh, whats that? What about the other 45 seconds when you are useless? I’m sorry, but that simply isn’t the case. The shortbow is actually pretty effective at providing AOE dps (cluster bomb crits for almost 5k per person) and aoe poison (-33% healing). Pop poison first, shoot your cluster bomb through it and pop it in the air = everyone has the -33% healing debuff, its pretty huge. Not to mention your #1 ability bounces up to 3 targets and can crit for over 1500 a piece (thats 4500 damage every second).

Reading through you’re posts i would have to assume you just arent that good at playing the thief profession. I’ve had zero problems killing huge aoe groups by myself in Cursed Shore, never dying in Explorer modes when im D/D it up, and also hardly ever dying in PvP with only 14k life (lrn 2 not die, srsly) Maybe you should play a guardian and use the 1h + shield?

Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYEQNAV4YlcmKP3eS0E+5EC3DmCqaKPFO4X1pgr0KA;TkAg2Croay0koJbTumkNN2A

Discussion:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/60762-condition-life-leecher-for-wvwvwpve/

I was just about to give up on thief as well, but this build changed my life. I don’t yet personally know how it hold up in pvp, but for pve I’m taking down 5 or 6 mobs of my level as long as I pop caltrops and move around like crazy (using either d/d or sb). Although it doesn’t really sound like a build is the OP’s problem as much as the mechanics of the class, maybe this will help someone else out.

i don’t understand this kind of thinking.

player comes into the game with an UNCOMPROMISING SET IN STONE vision of what a class should be? why do people even play games if this is how they feel?

I come to a game wanting to play the game itself, not cross my fingers and hope a developer magically guessed what I wanted and made that for me. I play the game for what it is, not what it isn’t.

Why do people do something else? Why do you only set yourself up for dissapointment by demanding that YOUR vision be satisfied or else its not even fun. Its like you don’t actually know how to have fun. Its like you’ve confused the idea of personal wish fulfilment with fun. these are two different things. I play a game to play a game. To enjoy the game for what it is. To have fun with it as it is. I don’t go to a game expecting personal wish fulfilment.

What exactly were you expecting? Honestly?

I think you have a point insofar as Thief being the most build restricted class from a design standpoint, but I’m still wondering what you were expecting, because debuffing or bursting pretty much defines the archetype, but you apparently weren’t looking for either of those.

Some very interesting points:

1) People are too stupid to understand how assassins work

ahuh

2) Heartseeker misses 90% of the time

yep

3) Why this why that why why why

ahuh

4) You hate thief class

yep

5) You are forced to play bursty bullcrap or ranged bs

that’s right

6) Other classes can do everything a thief can but better

ahuh

7) You don’t want to play another class so you are forced to quit

can I have your stuff?

What up with the word kitten lately? Was there some meme I missed. Every thread I read there’s some dude randomly throwing the word kitten anywhere they feel like.

sozai, the forums profanity filter filters profanity and swaps in the word kitten. I enjoy this fact.

Kabuki.9103:

Some very interesting points:

7) You don’t want to play another class so you are forced to quit

can I have your stuff?

I had already asked for his stuff … If there is some stuff I can’t use I will send some your way.

Sozai.4071:

What up with the word kitten lately? Was there some meme I missed. Every thread I read there’s some dude randomly throwing the word kitten anywhere they feel like.

It’s what the swear filter translates words to. I think some users are just adding “kitten” instead anyway.

Thief does die extremely easy in melee. They need better survivability options, I made a thread about this last week and got hammered and told I was horrible and it was a L2P issue, but it isn’t.

I’ve gotten to the point of thief, where there’s nothing else I can improve at, I am a master at double tapping at nearly the perfect moment almost every time.

I am a master of most specs, positioning, milking every cooldown to it’s fullest potential, milking trait specs to get the most out of them possible. Min/maxing gear correctly, and I know fairly well what every other class can do, and how to counter it.

And my opinion has not changed, Thief is WAY too squihy of a class, it feels squishier than light armor wearers I swear to God.

Warrior and Guardian are the only other 2 classes in WvW and sPvP that melee well, and they are extremely resilient, and take soak up damage better, allowing them to live for much longer extended periods of time.

Also, anyone saying sbow is viable, the joke is on you, sbow is horrible, and WARRIORS can ranged twice if not 3 times better than Thief.

Sbow is a gimmick spec, for mediocre AoE and zero single target burst, and if you want to be effective in WvW, you use Shortbow, but the thing is, you would be better off rerolling classes, because nearly every class can ranged dps better than Thief and AoE better.

My opinion will not ever change, ever, I can’t get any better with any spec, I know how they work, and simply put, the damage modifiers on Sbow are way too weak to be effective, on every button, compared to every other class.

If a Thief has Medium armor and uses a ranged weapon, the Thief should do noticably more damage than a Heavy Armor wearing class with a ranged weapon, and take noticably more damage, this is not the case.

ok master Martym. have fun on your Warrior. bye.

Oh yea, i can survive good in PvE is the PvP i have trouble with, it’s not easy to get like 20k HP and then get one shotted my another thief using PW or a warrior using HB or whatever, this is not a L2p crap, thieves have super weak defense and traiting in shadow and acrobatic does not help. Anyway i’m bored of gw2 now and will check if they make any stride if not oh well. back to playing torchlight 2

@ Metaphorm – You are now ignored, as usual you are posting your typical WoW kiddie remarks. And no, I will be on my Thief outplaying everyone as usual, including you.

To everyone crying about getting one-shot and crying ‘But I have 20k HP!’ You picked Power/Precision/Vitality gear didn’t you? Be honest. You have lots of HP but still get crit on like you’re a level 1. There’s a reason the PvP gear is Power/Vitality/Toughness. If you’re not using it, I don’t care your profession or build, you are going to take burst like you’re an innocent rabbit. So stop crying, health does not mean you live longer if you don’t back it up with some toughness. It just means we have to crit you one or two more times to kill you.

Vexus.5423:

To everyone crying about getting one-shot and crying ‘But I have 20k HP!’ You picked Power/Precision/Vitality gear didn’t you? Be honest. You have lots of HP but still get crit on like you’re a level 1. There’s a reason the PvP gear is Power/Vitality/Toughness. If you’re not using it, I don’t care your profession or build, you are going to take burst like you’re an innocent rabbit. So stop crying, health does not mean you live longer if you don’t back it up with some toughness. It just means we have to crit you one or two more times to kill you.

We have a genius here, everyone already knows this, you aren’t telling us anything we don’t already know.

And Master Martym, you fall into my above post. “Durr I am glass cannon but for some reason I can’t hold up in melee!” Like most issues, this is a Learn2Play issue, and part of that is learning to pick the right gear. If you want to have a specific spec tailored to bursting single targets down quickly, then go all Power/Precision/Crit damage gear. If you want to be able to go toe-to-toe to warriors and guardians, you will need toughness and vitality. It’s akittentrade off people. You can burst down light and medium targets all day, and not be good in a melee fight where you’re taking lots of damage, OR you can do less damage and survive longer, letting fights play out more than just ‘haha I 2 shot that non-80 player!’

And for all your “Should” remarks, you ‘should’ make your own game, or l2p

Vexus.5423:

And Master Martym, you fall into my above post. “Durr I am glass cannon but for some reason I can’t hold up in melee!” Like most issues, this is a Learn2Play issue, and part of that is learning to pick the right gear. If you want to have a specific spec tailored to bursting single targets down quickly, then go all Power/Precision/Crit damage gear. If you want to be able to go toe-to-toe to warriors and guardians, you will need toughness and vitality. It’s akittentrade off people. You can burst down light and medium targets all day, and not be good in a melee fight where you’re taking lots of damage, OR you can do less damage and survive longer, letting fights play out more than just ‘haha I 2 shot that non-80 player!’

I don’t use all power precision crit damage gear lol.

I do in PvE, not PvP, d-e-r-p.

Also, even with toughness, you would be st-up-id, to go “toe to toe” with a Warrior or Guardian.

You kite them with Dancing Dagger and bleeds, you really know your classes, let me tell you, take your own advice and L2P.

Running a 30 Trickery, 20 SA and 20 Acro here. Using D/D for melee and P/D when things get hairy and i need to create distance. This build is freaking amazing to me as my survivability has gone way way up. Just keep those Caltrops going and keep on kiting, bleeds and cripple for the win.

Bazeleel.8219:

You are forced to play nothing but bursty bullcrap in tournament or some ranged BS that shares poisons.

It figures though every MMO always kittens the assassin class because people are to stupid to understand how they work.

Heartseeker build is a completel joke and lacks any skill and who the hell wants to play that? Yes spam one button, this is GW2 not WoW. I want to be able to actually play the game. Condition damage build are great but you are killed long before the bleeds do anything to your target, not to mention almost every class seems to be able to clear them without thinking.

The build I currently have gives me 23k HP, 1.5k armor, 2.3k attack(1.1k weapon damage), a ton of dodge and stealth, and over all great mobility and consent damage. Yet a 13k HP thief can come in and still kill me in 2 seconds. REALLY?! Not to mention a Warrior with 24k HP can kill me even faster.

Every other class has great survivablity, and skills that complement each other the thief really doesn’t. I feel that they tried to give this class way to much and not enough reasons to use them.

If i wanted to play a ranger I would, why do i have shortbow? Why is P/P completely useless and really is used for unload and thats it? Why does heartseeker miss 90% of the time? Why does LDB and HS root you in the ground? Why does half throwing skills never work and say obstructed when clearly they are in LOS?

All this stuff has really made me hate the class and the game and I want to like but why play a class when you can play other classes that do everything the thief can do but better and even do more damage and survive longer?

I do not want to play different class but the thief is not what it should be. That is all I have to say.

1. yes Heartseeker build is useless and no fun that’s why no one use it
2. bleed build need to have a good thinking and good timing. when you have good attack other class have to have the counter attack.
3. you ether using wrong build for thief class or its your lack of skill that all class pound you.
4. Yes most classes have a survivability of their own kind. Thief survivability’s is more player skill base not like guardians who just use shield.
5. weapons like short bow is like utility for some situations and its have completely deferent ability than ranger.p/p is usefull depending of your build.
the bottom line is instead of try to change the game you better change your play style.

Give this build a try. It’s really fun, and you can destroy those no-skill bursty glass cannon builds with ease.

The fact that half the theif skills have something to do with stealth or shadowstepping should have been a fairly good hint that your not meant to TANK DAMAGE. Why did you build for 20+k hp??

metaphorm.6904:

I come to a game wanting to play the game itself, not cross my fingers and hope a developer magically guessed what I wanted and made that for me. I play the game for what it is, not what it isn’t.

Absolutely.

hahah who ever brought up the s/d lololol not only does it miss on moving targets, it also misses on non moving targets.. hell even misses the air i bet

How about you spec for survivability if that’s your complaint, there are plenty of traits for it… I made a perfectly good aoe bleed spec that survives forever so learn to play your class or do as you think you should and quit.