There is only one god and its name is nerf. There is only one thing we say to nerf, not today
(edited by Super Riceman.8702)
Improving our utilities
You realise that’s not how Signet of Agility works? It cures one condition FOR each ally. One condition on each ally nearby is cured. Maximum of one.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
I think you’re trying to ‘fix’ Venoms in a way that they simply aren’t broken. Venoms are about adding additional control conditions to the thief’s bar: running four of them shouldn’t give a thief absolutely everything. Especially because you don’t have to run 4 venoms and all their traits to make them useful. See: devourer venom in burst damage builds.
Now, on to the specifics and ideas I liked more.
Shadow Trap: [Destroy Shadow Trap] Blast Finisher
[Shadow Pursuit] Range 1500, Breaks stunsGives traps a stun breaker, allows for more self comboing. Unique over other blinks since it has the longest range.
Currently, Shadow Pursuit has a massive range (when it works). Adding a stun breaker does feel right for the skill. It may be a bit too much? But I think it could be an acceptable amount of power.
I don’t think a blast finisher on destroying the trap is a good idea though. It encourages people to bring the trap without actually using it.
Scorpion Wire: Also removes protection, vigor, and regen
More reason to use it than just a CC, helps tackle boon-reliant enemies, justifies cooldown.
This is an interesting idea for scorpion wire. It could be another source of boon rip / steal for the thief. I don’t think you need to make it specify what boons specifically, just adding “Removes two boons” / “Steals a boon” makes it have a lot more usage.
Smoke Screen: Also impassable for summoned units and pets
Helps vs classes like mesmer, necro, ele, ranger that can easily pressure the thief w/ summons.
Adding a restrictive impassibility to this skill doesn’t make a lot of sense. Especially because with you can already use this skill to blind any summon that’s trying to stick to you. Plus abilities that put up impassible walls is already a Guardian gimmick.
Haste: Also grants vision of stealthed enemies and traps.
There are a lot of bad things about giving up your dodges. Seeing stealth would give it a unique value over all other stun breakers meaning there is more of a reason to choose it. Helps counteract the negative effect and opens up options for counter-stealth/ counter-trap builds.
Okay while I like the idea of “see all invisible objects”, and would love to see it implemented on multiple professions, I really don’t think Haste is the place to put it. Haste is an all-out aggressive utility, so you can deliver that burst / stomp even faster. Detection seems a lot more defensive, or maybe counter-defensive, but not strictly aggressive the way Haste is. Just seems like the wrong place.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
You realise that’s not how Signet of Agility works? It cures one condition FOR each ally. One condition on each ally nearby is cured. Maximum of one.
I never put it on because I went off of the tooltip, should have remembered this is guild wars 2. Either way it isn’t a good condi removal and could be better to make an all signet build a thing at one point
1) I think you’re trying to ‘fix’ Venoms in a way that they simply aren’t broken. Venoms are about adding additional control conditions to the thief’s bar: running four of them shouldn’t give a thief absolutely everything. Especially because you don’t have to run 4 venoms and all their traits to make them useful. See: devourer venom in burst damage builds.
2) Currently, Shadow Pursuit has a massive range (when it works). Adding a stun breaker does feel right for the skill. It may be a bit too much? But I think it could be an acceptable amount of power.
I don’t think a blast finisher on destroying the trap is a good idea though. It encourages people to bring the trap without actually using it.3) Okay while I like the idea of “see all invisible objects”, and would love to see it implemented on multiple professions, I really don’t think Haste is the place to put it. Haste is an all-out aggressive utility, so you can deliver that burst / stomp even faster. Detection seems a lot more defensive, or maybe counter-defensive, but not strictly aggressive the way Haste is. Just seems like the wrong place.
1) The reason venoms have problems is because of the importance of stun breakers and condi removal. As long as venoms have no way to do either the game is indirectly forcing you to use other skills/weapons. Maybe it shouldn’t be exactly be like above, but venoms need some way to deal with it or Thieves are still going to be forced into certain skills/builds. You will always need 1 or 2 skills that are not venoms otherwise.
As for Skale and Ice Drake, I feel they could be buffed to fill niches for thieves that would both open up new builds and making venoms a stronger choice.
2) As for the blast finisher, it was an idea for making it useful to destroy. It currently says it grants stealth but actually does not. Unless that gets fixed, there should be a working benefit to deciding to end the life of the trap.
3) I wasn’t really sure what would be the most correct skill to put it on but giving up your evades was really bad if you don’t build to use/benefit from stealth and seeing invis would help counteract that negative effect (if Anet does not plan on reducing it).
Either the negative effect should come down or it should give more, or there should be a way to trait to remove the effect. And stealth reveal belongs on stun-breakers that way it makes it a tough decision to make to see the enemy, not just a skill that you always pick up vs stealth and automatically activate when they go into hiding.
There is only one god and its name is nerf. There is only one thing we say to nerf, not today
I think thief does’t need buffs… Well except for his traps.
1) The reason venoms have problems is because of the importance of stun breakers and condi removal. As long as venoms have no way to do either the game is indirectly forcing you to use other skills/weapons. Maybe it shouldn’t be exactly be like above, but venoms need some way to deal with it or Thieves are still going to be forced into certain skills/builds. You will always need 1 or 2 skills that are not venoms otherwise.
As for Skale and Ice Drake, I feel they could be buffed to fill niches for thieves that would both open up new builds and making venoms a stronger choice.2) As for the blast finisher, it was an idea for making it useful to destroy. It currently says it grants stealth but actually does not. Unless that gets fixed, there should be a working benefit to deciding to end the life of the trap.
3) I wasn’t really sure what would be the most correct skill to put it on but giving up your evades was really bad if you don’t build to use/benefit from stealth and seeing invis would help counteract that negative effect (if Anet does not plan on reducing it).
Either the negative effect should come down or it should give more, or there should be a way to trait to remove the effect. And stealth reveal belongs on stun-breakers that way it makes it a tough decision to make to see the enemy, not just a skill that you always pick up vs stealth and automatically activate when they go into hiding.
Again, I think you’re trying to ‘fix’ venoms in the wrong way, by changing them from control skills to survival/escape skills, which the thief already has in other places. They need to carve out a stronger niche, but I don’t think switching their focus completely is the right idea.
I guess I’m not inclined to make the trap useful to destroy yourself, though it could be a further distinction between thief and ranger traps. I’ll think on it a bit more.
Also, they’ve already reduced the drawbacks of haste to match the reduced benefits of quickness, since now it doesn’t put you into negative endurance and you still recover some endurance while under its effects. I honestly feel like this skill is in a pretty good spot, it’s just that quickness doesn’t win things for you quite as handily as it used to.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Again, I think you’re trying to ‘fix’ venoms in the wrong way, by changing them from control skills to survival/escape skills, which the thief already has in other places. They need to carve out a stronger niche, but I don’t think switching their focus completely is the right idea.
The problem is that the game is indirectly forcing you to those “other places” because venoms are helpless against control skills/condition skills. The game is saying that at least one utility cannot be venoms unless you want to die. While I won’t argue that the only way to fix them is the way I listed, venoms have to have some way to deal with them or forever remain UP
The reason I suggest adding stun break and condi removal is because I don’t think they will become useful if they just added more condi or did more damage. Right now if you don’t take a “survival” skill you won’t survive so venoms must become those skills or at least rival them, breaking stun and removing condis seems like the simplest change.
What do you think they need to change to carve out a stronger niche?
There is only one god and its name is nerf. There is only one thing we say to nerf, not today
The venom suggestions are interesting, i would love to see support based thieves become a force to be reckoned with. Stability alone could be a reason to roll shared venoms, although i think devourer venom is fine as it is and really isn’t the one needing a stunbreak.
Also trippwire should launch. So. Frickin. Yes.
Imagine being chased around a corner of clocktower or so and putting that down, the enemy proceeds to get launched of the tower. Thats what thieves should be about, trickery and subterfuge, not the mlg 360noscope-backstabbingXXLwubwubwubdubbsteppremix class. Because of the initiative mechanic sadly the thief can’t have too much hard CC as that would be abused pretty extensively, meaning that the utilities and stolen skills should cover that. One thing that would be nice would be for the traps to persist for X (say 5) seconds after activation, meaning you can trip a bunch of people if they run in a group.
I don’t think condiremoval on ambush really makes sense though, would be ineresting if it caused 5 stacks of confusion in the area though.
Scorpion wire maybe could chain into a stun allwing you to not only grab them but also keep them there long enough to follow up? Also you should shout “get over here!”.
I really want to see a more competitive condition thief build, maybe changing blind on stealth to confusion on stealth and lowering the pulsing of blackpowder to once every 2 seconds (like smoke bomb and turret smoke on engineer got updated to) but adding in addition to the blind 3 seconds of burn and making the projectile always blind and making the smoke field a firefield (yes i know this is going to be highly unpopular since its a source of stealth spamming, but on the other hand you can stack large stacks of might now).
Again, I think you’re trying to ‘fix’ venoms in the wrong way, by changing them from control skills to survival/escape skills, which the thief already has in other places. They need to carve out a stronger niche, but I don’t think switching their focus completely is the right idea.
The problem is that the game is indirectly forcing you to those “other places” because venoms are helpless against control skills/condition skills. The game is saying that at least one utility cannot be venoms unless you want to die. While I won’t argue that the only way to fix them is the way I listed, venoms have to have some way to deal with them or forever remain UP
-snip-
What do you think they need to change to carve out a stronger niche?
Yeah see, that decision (Bring a non-venom or be very vulnerable) isn’t actually a problem. Not every set of utilities needs to make a build that has some survival in it, a build should be able to be all about control, or support, or escaping on its utilities, just with the “If you choose to do X, you can’t do Y” rule. You’re allowed (encouraged?) to pick utilities from various categories to make a well rounded build: picking them all from the same one should allow for some powerful specialization at the cost of that general survival.
I think venoms need to be a bit stronger in terms of control – Spider venom is great at what it does, and actually adds condition damage, so it’s fine. Devourer venom is pretty good because immobilize is so good at making someone eat a burst in PvP.
By comparison, the weakness / vuln from skale venom just isn’t as great. If you have 15 in Deadly Arts, spider venom is just as good at putting on weakness, and the vulnerability is ignorable. I think the solution there could be to make the vulnerability 3 or even 4 stacks, or switch it out for increased weakness and another application. Chill is a desireable control condition, but ice drake venom has a base of a mere 3 seconds if you use the 3 attacks on the same target. I’d like to see it just get a strict buff to 2s per application with 3 or 4 applications.
Basically, I want them to individually be “This build could use periodic chill to help me kite. Let’s take IDV.” and collectively be “You aren’t going to be doing anything” in the way a full set of condition-based control utilities would on other professions.
Edit: Also, I think that complete debilitation of your enemy is its own defense, really.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
actually… the thing is…and i am a sole thief… main toon…. only 1 toon… althou i do not use but the elite one… venoms are OP….when in groups…. they are not meant for duo’s or solo use…
2 reasons:
Venomous Aura:
gives any frienly around u same venom… ANY… 8 members in vicinity… 8 venoms coming up….
in combo w/
Leeching Venoms: steal hp when triggering a venom…
if u slowly cycle thru venoms.. and stack or place friendlies in strategic proximity or even converge at regular intervals…say cross paths every 10-15 secs…let each venom run its course b/c healing doesnt stack for multi venoms triggered…
Spider venom= 5 attacks; Skale= 3; Ice Drake=3 Basilis=1
(x2 for all if grand master DA trait)
Thats MASSIVE amts of friendly heal+enemy control/conditions given out.. by whole team… initiated by YOU.
thats the way I see it atleast… venoms=the more the merrier (utilities/elite AND friend share)
