Guild Wars 2

I never realized how truly amazing this ability was, with the recent revealed change I wanted to pull just a tiny bit of stealth off my build. After looking around for a bit someone made an interesting point about withdraw so I decided to give it a try.

For defensive mobility it’s amazing, a free dodge roll that triggers vigor from the acro trait line.

It breaks the things that kill us, being locked down.

Can be used twice in the time it takes for Hide in Shadows. meaning more overall healing.

and the best part NO CAST TIME…

Honestly I guess you really gotta get out there and play with some of the abilities you don’t often use, but after a 15 minute straight fight with me vs an ele and a thief I was sold, it saved me AT LEAST 8 times that fight.

Some thieves don’t use withdraw because it messes with their positioning. But I use it for the same reasons that you do – free evasion, fast cooldown. What I noticed about immobilize is that it gets cleansed on heal, so you dodge in place until your heal fires.

Ya man I said this before and got bashed a bit for it but adversity forces you to try new things that you would not have cause you got complacent in your build.

I don’t like the change but I am having a lot of fun trying new things that I never would have tried before.

Yams.6082:

Some thieves don’t use withdraw because it messes with their positioning. But I use it for the same reasons that you do – free evasion, fast cooldown. What I noticed about immobilize is that it gets cleansed on heal, so you dodge in place until your heal fires.

I never understood the positioning thing. You can steal or heartseaker and jump right back.

Ah I can see where it messes with placement, but being a P/D condition build i’m never “Out of range”

I’ve found it especially amazing if you’re fighting in melee. Do a dodge roll forward then instantly hit withdraw, suddenly the hostile is like “WTF?” and it buys you 2 or 3 seconds before they’re back on you.

Fun fact it’s also almost double the range of the average dodge-roll

Don’t forget withdraw>D/P #3 to dodge, blind and keep overall pressure up.

I love the ability and all that it does. But I have to use HiS because I use Hidden Killer and that 100% crit in stealth is just too good to pass up.

I remember I used to use withdraw, roll for initiative, and that trait that gives you initiative when you use a heal skill in combination with the shortbow to make quick getaways.

I doubt it was a build of max efficiency, but it sure was a lot of fun crossing so much distance, and being basically impossible to stop mid-escape.

If they fix the immobile cleansing issue and make it a stun break i’d never ever ever go back

Maugetarr.6823:

Don’t forget withdraw>D/P #3 to dodge, blind and keep overall pressure up.

Does this skill still root you when firing the pistol shot? I remember something being fixed about in an earlier patch but not the specifics.

Yams.6082:

Maugetarr.6823:

Don’t forget withdraw>D/P #3 to dodge, blind and keep overall pressure up.

Does this skill still root you when firing the pistol shot? I remember something being fixed about in an earlier patch but not the specifics.

I heard the root issue was fixed.

Yams.6082:

Maugetarr.6823:

Don’t forget withdraw>D/P #3 to dodge, blind and keep overall pressure up.

Does this skill still root you when firing the pistol shot? I remember something being fixed about in an earlier patch but not the specifics.

No. You’re able to move while firing the shot.

nahj.2870:

Yams.6082:

Maugetarr.6823:

Don’t forget withdraw>D/P #3 to dodge, blind and keep overall pressure up.

Does this skill still root you when firing the pistol shot? I remember something being fixed about in an earlier patch but not the specifics.

No. You’re able to move while firing the shot.

Nice. I remember I used to burn Shadowstep to make sure I was within 600 units and then hit Shadowshot. Gotta account for the extra second of distance gain my target got when I was rooted =\

Yeah you can move during the whole shadowshot now making it a great alternative to heartseeker. The whole weaponset feels useful now. Leap, shadowstep+blind, interrupt, blind field, and access to stealth. Give it a whirl.

Would be nice if u could link something.
Iam a lil bit confused ^^ p/d oder p/d with 0/0/xx/xx/xx ??

yea great skill too bad it doesnt remove conditions, pretty much the only reason why i pick HiS

I started using it on my condition thief last week. It fits really well.

It’s cool and all untill you are in a sitatuation trying to run away from your pursuers and rolled back to them and get killed.

IMO, we should be in control which direction to roll to, otherwise I’m sticking with HiS.

Step 1: map turn 180 to something accessible.
Step 2: be running away, stop and hit said key simultaneously.
Step 3: withdraw immediately after.
Step 4: use said key again and continue, alternatively you can hold right click to control facing.

Its not random – you ALWAYS roll opposite your facing.

Selver.1307:

Step 1: map turn 180 to something accessible.
Step 2: be running away, stop and hit said key simultaneously.
Step 3: withdraw immediately after.
Step 4: use said key again and continue, alternatively you can hold right click to control facing.

Its not random – you ALWAYS roll opposite your facing.

It’s more like;

Step 1: map turn 180 to something accessible.
Step 2: dead

>.<’

Compare that to;

Step 1: Hide in Shadows — see yah!

I’ve been using Withdraw in WvW for the longest time now. It’s just better at getting you out of sticky situations, whereas HIS just makes you invisible while still being in a bad situation. As for lacking condition removal, this can be taken care of by speccing into Shadow Arts. In fact I find speccing into Shadow Arts to be better at mitigating conditions than HIS alone.

So how do you cleanse conditions without HiS? Blinding Powder traited for Condition Removal on Stealth?

I ask because I’m a Venom-Crit thief, SB with D/P, and I find Withdraw not being as useful as HiS for my current build.

Signet of agility, return on sword and shadow step, there’s also a trait in 20 acrobatics that can remove fire/poison/bleed on yourself and give 10s regen every 45s (below 75% health).

Yes it’s not that good and kinda wonky, but that’s just how thieves are atm.

Also yes, withdraw is a really good healing skill, my favorite since release. It’s kinda bugged with the “immo removal part” though. Just like shadow step are bugged with stunbreakers.

Battou.7832:

I’ve been using Withdraw in WvW for the longest time now. It’s just better at getting you out of sticky situations, whereas HIS just makes you invisible while still being in a bad situation. As for lacking condition removal, this can be taken care of by speccing into Shadow Arts. In fact I find speccing into Shadow Arts to be better at mitigating conditions than HIS alone.

That’s true. There are situations that I needed the CC removal from Widthdraw, but that’s all Widthdraw does, unlike Hide in Shadows, you can also use it to Sneak Attack.

The condition removal in SA requires you to be in Stealth and only happen after 3s if you are still in Stealth. Hardly a comparison to HiS.

That HiS cast time can get you killed. A smart enemy will interrupt that and you dead.

LOL I remember early on after I switched to Withdraw from HiS in the fractal with the giant. Jumping up to the next seal location, somebody drops the hammer and I pick it up and take a decent amount of damage.

Better heal that up!

I’m sure it looked pretty crazy to my party, at least I didn’t fall to my death.

I’m trying a 15/30/0/25/0 build with S/D, D/P, SB. I rely on Sword 2 and Shadowstep to clean damaging conditions. CC Conditions are a breeze though.

Suralin.3947:

So how do you cleanse conditions without HiS? Blinding Powder traited for Condition Removal on Stealth?

I ask because I’m a Venom-Crit thief, SB with D/P, and I find Withdraw not being as useful as HiS for my current build.

It won’t be optimal for everyone’s setup but I simply offset conditions with regen. I run D/P in WvW and spec in Shadow Rejuv and Shadow Protector. That’s 2 sources of regen every time I stealth(3 if you count the Refuge passive). I also run Blinding powder and Shadow Refuge. The only time I get in trouble with conditions is when a Necro dumps on me, but I find Shadows embrace to be pretty inefficient at removing conditions (especially post nerf). I feel like this setup has good survivability and decent team support (remeber this is a WvW build).

Thundercleese.4210:

That HiS cast time can get you killed. A smart enemy will interrupt that and you dead.

An even smarter enemy pours bleed/poison/burning on you and you can’t do anything about it because you have Widthdraw.

Either way you’re dead.

So what’s the point of stating the worst case scenario? Basically what’s your point?

LOL I remember early on after I switched to Withdraw from HiS in the fractal with the giant. Jumping up to the next seal location, somebody drops the hammer and I pick it up and take a decent amount of damage.

Better heal that up!

I’m sure it looked pretty crazy to my party, at least I didn’t fall to my death.

I’m trying a 15/30/0/25/0 build with S/D, D/P, SB. I rely on Sword 2 and Shadowstep to clean damaging conditions. CC Conditions are a breeze though.

I highly doubt the effectiveness of your condi removal versus HiS.

It’s not as good as HiS. No doubt about that when it comes to clearing damaging conditions.

Best heal in the game as far as I’m concerned, it’s just so good having a heal that can’t be interrupted. Conditions can be a problem but not enough that I’d choose a heal with double the cool down.

Also with a 4 second stealth that will cleanse twice. It pops immediately after stealth activation and on second #4. With 3 sec stealth just 1 at intro to stealth.

I should clarify. Map it before you enter dub v dub.

Also.

(Begins to cast his)
RAISE MY ARMS ALL BIG LIKE
(Headshot, pulled/pushed)
SS
SR
(Pulled out)
Die.

All in all id say we have some of the most well balanced heals!

I really dig them both honestly.

I didnt forget som…

Selver.1307:

All in all id say we have some of the most well balanced heals!

I really dig them both honestly.

I didnt forget som…

I still can’t find a use for that signet.

It’s just not good enough. I wish its active skill heals for at least 5k. :/

Yeah, its my least favorite. Paired with omnoms and pve event farming where you can maintain high hit volume is nice. Also trops used to trigger it, but i havent used it in quite a while so not sure if it triggers like it used to.

Wow this topic blew up… Either way I notice people having questions about condition removal.

In my build I have 30 in shadow arts for embrace which, with the four second minor allows 2 conditions to be removed if you extend your stealth. Combine this with the heal while in stealth becomes more of a survival utility then straight damage.

Withdraw can heal twice in the time it takes for one HIS has no cast time ((Which has gotten me killed many times with HiS against enemies that know how to hit you with a pull or daze when they see you casting.)) And for escape Withdraw can proc vigor allowing you to backroll away from an incoming zerg and start dodge-rolling for swiftness away.

And yes there is an issue with your placement with withdraw when I first started using it I was rolling off EVERYTHING… But after a couple days of getting used to it I have not NOT rolled myself into a bad situation yet. It’s just a matter of learning the feel of the skill.
I’ve even began mid-air turning to land and set up my Withdraws.

“Withdraw” and “Roll for Initiative” are pretty standard on my D/D build and I tear stuff up. Hide in Shadows was always my go to in other builds, but with the changes I’ll probably make Withdraw my usual, now. Just be careful when using it on cliffs – but when you get used to it you can aim it pretty fast.

Selver.1307:

I should clarify. Map it before you enter dub v dub.

Also.

(Begins to cast his)
RAISE MY ARMS ALL BIG LIKE
(Headshot, pulled/pushed)
SS
SR
(Pulled out)
Die.

I laughed so hard at this since this is the typical thief death scenario XD

Looks like the thieves have found another exploit.
Guys next patch, nerf withdraw.

But on a serious not, yeah its a pretty cool skill if your build doesnt rely on stealth or your utilities dont have a stun breaker.

Withdraw doesn’t break stuns.

i have noticed myself more and more catching the reveal debuff when triggering His, time to give withdraw a go

with s/d… infiltrator strike, withdraw, steal, cnd, shadowstep etc will make you one seriously annoying target

Doing the 180 degree camera rotation + withdraw or roll for initiative thing does not get you further than where you would have gotten if you had just walked. (Test it yourself, walk along someone in a straight line, do your combo, and see how far ahead of him you end up. Basically right at the same level at which you started :p)
I think that’s because just like all our kitten mobility skills which are not shadow steps ( flanking strike, dancing dagger, heartseeker), those skills are affected by our movement speed. (Try heartseeker when chilled, your reach goes from 450 on the tooltip down to like 5.). So yeah, there is no point doing that camera rotation thing to move faster. (I know that withdraw and roll for ini remove movement speed debuffs, my point is that whether you have swiftness, signet of shadows, or no movement speed buff, you won’t get further, nor less far, than where you would have gotten if you had just walked).

It wouldn’t be too much to ask that our mobility skills get untied from our movement speed. It’s always been an issue. If you’ve got swiftness and want to use your flanking strike, you end up out of reach for the strike…

Withdraw and Roll for Initiative remove Chilled and Cripple though. Also, you might be a little slow in turning your camera if you don’t gain distance with Roll for Initiative. Withdraw itself is a little short yeah.

Also, when you chain both together, you only have to turn your camera once so it adds up quickly.

If you ever huntered in wow, or any other game/class that utilized jump shot techniques youve already got the skills for withdraw. Someone above mentioned it.

I do wish it would clear condition>heal as opposed to other way around.

Selver.1307:

I do wish it would clear condition>heal as opposed to other way around.

I wish that of all heals that remove conditions. Be nice for instance if they removed the poison first…… seems kinda intuitive of such a skill.

I think necro’s condition-eating one does though; it’s an awesome skill and makes the other two look pretty sad.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The condition removal in SA requires you to be in Stealth and only happen after 3s if you are still in Stealth. Hardly a comparison to HiS.

We’re this late into the game and this fallacy still abounds? Shadow’s Embrace Instantly removes 1 condition upon entering stealth and continues to do so every 3 seconds.

That means with the 4 seconds in stealth, you clear 2 conditions and can heal 2x more. I feel like HiS is a vastly inferior heal, subject to interrupts and just on too long of a CD to be worthwhile.

EDIT: plus, unless you’re already traited in Shadow’s Embrace, you’re not clearing any conditions like immobilize/cripple, so you may be stealthed, but any enemy worth their salt will know you’re probably still right there and continue wailing away on you.

tbh all three profession heals are fantastic at what they do, what they do is vastly different between each of them and thus the builds they fit and the playstyles that get the most out of them differ wildly.

If you want damaging condition removal plus a stealth set up with a bigger burst heal that meshes well with shadow arts you got Hide in Shadows

If you want faster heals with CC condition removal plus a quick escape evasion that meshes well with acrobatics you have Withdraw

If you want a constant heal that you can cycle even faster than withdraw in some set ups that meshes well with multiple hit/AoE/High Init regain/critical hit trait builds you have Signet of Malice

There is no best or better heals they each do a totally different job that works vastly differently depending on your build but when used right each of them can be magnificent.

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The condition removal in SA requires you to be in Stealth and only happen after 3s if you are still in Stealth. Hardly a comparison to HiS.

We’re this late into the game and this fallacy still abounds? Shadow’s Embrace Instantly removes 1 condition upon entering stealth and continues to do so every 3 seconds.

Sorry I didn’t proof read that response. I stand corrected.

What I meant to say was, in an active engagement, it’s not efficient to stay in stealth for the full duration just to remove conditions, because during that time, your opponent is also rejuvenating. On top of that, if you let stealth to expire, you lose the opportunity to sneak ataack. Therefore in this situation, instead of putting points to SA, you can just put the point where it will give you more damage and use HiS instead.

The comparison I’m trying to make is the cost of HiS vs the cost of Shadow’s Embrace.

But let’s just say that you are spec-ing SA anyway, isn’t more the reason to use HiS because you’ll be removing more conditions that way?

That means with the 4 seconds in stealth, you clear 2 conditions and can heal 2x more.

True, but the 4s stealth only applies if you are not planning on using stealth to sneak attack. Also, before going in stealth, you need to use withdraw first to remove CC, otherwise SE may remove a non-damaging condition instead — while with HiS, it removes the damaging condition regardless on what other conditions you have.

I feel like HiS is a vastly inferior heal, subject to interrupts and just on too long of a CD to be worthwhile.

In terms of base heal, I agree. But in term of effective health restoration, it’s the best.

Effective health restoration comes into account because it removes DoTs.

Withdraw may heal for more base heal, but it can’t do anything about the DoTs. So if the DoTs on you are ticking for 200dmg/s, in 5 seconds, your effective health restoration is reduced by 30%.

If someone interrupts my HiS, then kudos to them for being skillful and it’s an honor to die in their hands. But if you really want a safe HiS, just CnD first, at least that’s what I do.

EDIT: plus, unless you’re already traited in Shadow’s Embrace, you’re not clearing any conditions like immobilize/cripple, so you may be stealthed, but any enemy worth their salt will know you’re probably still right there and continue wailing away on you.

True. That’s the trade off. But if you’re really concern about it, you can always bring Roll for Initiative. IMO CC is not a concern compares to DoTs.

WereDragon.6083:

I never realized how truly amazing this ability was, with the recent revealed change I wanted to pull just a tiny bit of stealth off my build. After looking around for a bit someone made an interesting point about withdraw so I decided to give it a try.

For defensive mobility it’s amazing, a free dodge roll that triggers vigor from the acro trait line.

It breaks the things that kill us, being locked down.

Can be used twice in the time it takes for Hide in Shadows. meaning more overall healing.

and the best part NO CAST TIME…

Honestly I guess you really gotta get out there and play with some of the abilities you don’t often use, but after a 15 minute straight fight with me vs an ele and a thief I was sold, it saved me AT LEAST 8 times that fight.

I fell in love with this skill a few months ago, and holy kitten it’s amazing! Removes your cripple, chilled and immobilize as well as it’s a dodge and a heal – with no cast time! Other heals are often getting interrupted, but this cant be, it just happens.

My experience while using Withdraw is that you have to pay even more attention to your environments (in the beginning I threw myself off cliffs all the time, just to die…) and therefore have more control of the battlefield. Top it off with some Vigor upon healing (Vigorous Recovery) and you’ll have 8 seconds of Vigor every 15 seconds (or more if you have +boon duration), which means almost infinite evades.

Low cool-down. No cast time. Removes crippled, chilled and immobilized. Decent heal.

What is there not to like about this skill?

Generally speaking I like hide in shadows more. Withdraw’s condition cures are limited to the mobility restriction conditions, whereas hide in shadows cures burning, bleed, poison, as to cripple, immobilize, chilled. As for healing wise, it feels the same for me since I spec to get regen on stealth, which makes up the difference.

I’ve been using withdraw exclusively for WvW the last few months. I find the instant cast and the dodge are both invaluable – more valuable than the stealth from HiS. It is great for getting out of aoe circles. I run with D/P so stealth is on demand anyway.

Changed up my armor runes to Hoelbrak for the condition reduction, and use condition reduction food. Instead of the stealth trait to remove conditions, I use the trait for extra initiative in stealth. Conditions don’t last long at all with all that passive condition duration reduction. I don’t miss the condition removal in stealth.