Guild Wars 2

So ArenaNet decided that Infiltrator’s Return needs a Cast time added to it to stop players from spamming it. Let’s help them out with ideas. (I know there will not be a lot of replies to this thread due to the lack of players that actually play a S/P setup)

They don’t want us, according to what ‘they’ said, rofl-stomping players in sPVP (they never once mentioned PVE survival of S/P playing in PVE, they are basing this all off of sPVP)

Possible Solutions

• Make Infiltrator’s Return cost 4 Int (currently 2) to prevent the spamming
• Add CD to Shadow Return (one that prevents spamming)

ArenaNet has already nerfed Infiltrator’s Strike with the following

• Shadow Return distance reduced from Infinite (based on 15sec before it disappears) to 1200 range
• Removed CC breaking from Shadow Return

When the the reduction was added to the Shadow Return the difficulty of the ability went up tremendously, making that skill a very difficult one to use— it also kept the Thief WITHIN range of most classes as some skill ranges were around the 1200 mark, make S/P thieves a bit more easier to deal with. 1200 range still stinks, I know.

What us Sword theives are trying to point out to our creators is the following

• Thieves have one Stability: Dagger Storm (and it is a Elite ability)
• Sword/Pistol Thieves (when played well) do not rely on Stealth
• Because S/P Thieves do not rely on stealth we are out in the open way more, making Infiltrator’s Strike our survival ability to put distance on a Hammer Gaurdian, D/D Elemental, Ranger, Warrior with a GS chasing us down.
• list more if you can think of them below, these are just some of the concerns I have with the upcoming change

I have my difficulties out there with players who actually know how to deal with Infiltrator’s Strike. Players who are not familiar with it will, of course, have more difficulty dealing with it. That alone is an issue within every game and will never be a satisfying fix for everyone. (I actually have said for the past 10 years: Bad players get Good players nerfed — to a degree of course)

I want these class balancing employees to go into their office for the next few weeks and head into the meetings and really think about alternatives to this change. The suggested change from this team is horrible (sorry ArenaNet, infract me for saying that, but seriously, take criticism with a bit of pride, not hatred towards me)

In a previous post by one of these team-members stated “sPVP stomping” and never mentioned the PVE effects this would have on Sword Thieves. This puts us in a serious horrible situation. I don’t know about you, but I tend to have more armor than Heavy’s in PVE and even then Shadow Return helps keep me stay alive when I can clearly (when the screen isn’t full of mass cluttering of spells) see the boss is about to 1-shot me —-— I teleport back.

Do I use Stealth as a S/P Thief? Sure, when I really need it. This is where ArenaNet has not done so well with the class. Instead of building or modifying the class to NOT rely on Stealth, they instead of have handed out stealthing ability like candy on Halloween — it is over used and way over abused. I use stealth as a “really, really need to fix this situation quick!” ability. I do not run around stealthing in and our making it MORE difficult for players to catch me vs. I want to fight them! I’ll stealth when I really need too.

Here’s another issue being ignored:

Thieves can throw on a dagger and Black Powder all day long making it extremely difficult for groups/zergs (sPvP too) to catch them and end the fight. Yet my Infiltrator’s Strike is the issue in their eyes? How long have Thieves been told “Your stealth is overpowered, it should be nerfed!” So when the masses clearly point out the issue, that gets overlooked? I don’t get that.

My using an ability to teleport me back, away from harms way, to survive another moment that costs me Initiative without the use of stealth is the big concern in with this class? That doesn’t clearly add up, at all. Sure the S/D thieves are abusing the Shadow Return, I’m sure I may have at times, too, but no where near some of the other class abuses (Elemental Vapor running into keeps/towers all day in WvW) we witness day in and day out.

So, ArenaNet will never read this thread, that much I can assure you (plus one of the employees there has a huge, huge dislike for me because he knows me in person) but your comments, suggestions and thoughts can be emailed to their company. I have listed, above, some of the ideas to help curve the abusiveness of the ability in a more logical meaningful way. If I am in harms way, I need to get out quickly, not spend time watching a cast bar on my screen — while at the same time costing me Int to use it.

S/P Thieves / S/D Thieves: Please help contribute ideas to this thread. I will gather up your comments and email them to someone at ArenaNet.

i’m devastated – even in a patch that is supposed to nerf warrior, we get nerfed much much harder than warriors. Yes warrior hammer got like 20% dps nerf, but their mechanics haven’t been touched. the things that keep them alive such as healing signet, zerker stance? untouched.

these nerfs are easily enough to kill off sword thieves, but apparently ANET devs don’t seem to think so. I guess we’ll see. I HATE to say “told you so” because I’m usually not one to rub it in but looks like I’ll get to say it this time.

Nope. It does not need an init increase or any changes at all. The only people “spamming it” are noobs that use their entire initiative pool on 2. The skill is fine as it is to be honest.

Stop suggesting nerfs for a skill that in no way needs a nerf.

avilo.1942:

Nope. It does not need an init increase or any changes at all. The only people “spamming it” are noobs that use their entire initiative pool on 2. The skill is fine as it is to be honest.

Stop suggesting nerfs for a skill that in no way needs a nerf.

ArenaNet feels strongly enough to make a change and that is not going to change. My suggestions are simply to find an alternative route, one that is not a devastation.

Don’t worry as this thread will not be read by ArenaNet, that much I can guarantee

I’m starting to think that this skill shouldnt be nerfed at all. With the all over reduction to initiative traits initiative is going to much harder to come by and I’m thinking there’s a good chance that if your unloading as you are now, odds are you wont have enough initiative to cast the skill in the first place.
I think if anything, they should change the cost of SR to 3 initiative, this coupled with the over all nerf to initiative regen, should be enough of a nerf to stop abuse, your either going to have to master resources inorder to ensure you have enough left to cast or you going to have to sit there and wait on regen which would take longer then the 1/4sec cast time.

Think they’ve over looked the lower initiative regen rates when they decided that SR is going to be nerfed. I’m dreading the state of thiefs once this is implemented, only dagger as mainhand as a resonable dps without initiative burning.

CD and Init bump are both bad ideas IMO.

They can reduce the range (between 600-900) down from 1200, or reduce the amount of time IR lasts before flipping back to IS – 8-10s.
Either of these changes (or maybe both?) would help alleviate issues the Dev’s claim sword thieves are causing. Shorter range means easier to close back to a thief after they escape a stun using IR, shorter IR uptime means more active porting back and forth to upkeep your escape button (and has the side effect of costing more init without directly affecting the init cost).

The “IS/IR makes stomping too easy” point doesn’t bear discussion…because it doesn’t exist. Having to spend 5 init AND a utility skill (the only way to use IS/IR to facilitate a stomp) seems on par Or MORE expensive than other classes who can simply use an ability that grants stability to secure the same stomp.

They say “IS/IR makes stomping too easy” OK then i know a simple fix that will effect everyone and not just Thief. How about if they make it so if we use any Utility’s including profession specials like "steal"specials during a stomp, it cancels out the stomp. I mean if they are nerfing just because of the way we use the return as a stomp, then why not spread it to other classes that abuse similar easy ways to stomp. Then we can revert nerf on S/X.

IR will no longer work while stunned/KD/etc…

Bye bye S/X thieves…