Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: Nefarious.2014

Nefarious.2014

I feel the need to address this topic because it is everywhere – in forum posts, people whining or flaming in sPVP matches, etc.

1. The initiative system promotes the use of the best ability for the given situation. IF the situation is “do damage,” then you will see skill spam (heartseeker, death blossom, unload, pistolwhip, etc). This is how the thief is designed…. You burst with the best burst skills in most situations (this obviously varies depending on the fight but we’re talking generalities here). So, could a thief, like any other class, go abilities 1 > 2 > 3> 4 > 5, or some such order? Yes, they could, but it doesn’t make sense given our resource system.

2. Pressing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or a similar order does NOT take more skill than 3333 or 2222. I mean really, executing the abilities themselves in a video game IS NOT DIFFICULT.

3. Everyone focuses on “the ability spam” with comments. However, this occurs during only one phase of combat (the burst dps phase). Disclaimer: the following OBVIOUSLY varies depending on weapon set, the type of combat, etc. Also, the lines between phases can be blurred or interrupted. But again, speaking in general….
a. Initiation phase and pre-fight preparation – this includes targeting, positioning, and activation of any utilities ahead of time (no difference between classes)
b. DPS phase – for thieves, this is generally burst and generally over in a few seconds. This is where the most effective ability for DPS is used, often repeatedly until initiative is used up.
c. Evasion phase – the thief is out of initiative, potentially in melee range. They need to use their skill and remaining utilities to avoid damage, regen initiative, and still support the team (same as every other class)

“Skill spam” is ONE part of the combat process, and again, pressing 12345 is not more skillful than 33333.

Finally, people tend to notice the ability that did the most damage after being stomped and cry about spam. However, they don’t really notice how our other abilities are used. Example: I haste / unload someone to death. Did they notice i opened with vital shot to cause vulnerability? Did they notice that when i was stomping them, I used black powder to blind them and prevent their interrupt? No, they usually dont. All they see is unload – 16k or whatever.

Bad thieves spam abilities and think they are spamming abilities.

Decent thieves don’t want to spam abilities and “be that guy”, so they try other stuff and don’t use the class to its full potential.

The best thieves understand the initiative system, what is best for the moment, and utilize the class to its full potential, regardless of how the ignorant may cry.

TLDR; Due to the initiative system, thieves will use abilities repetitively for the situation at hand. If the situation is “do damage”, they will spam the highest damage ability. This is bust one phase of combat. Judge a players skill by their overall gameplay, NOT THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY PRESS BUTTONS.

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: Reynfall.1547

Reynfall.1547

Very well said.

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: Karthaugh.6532

Karthaugh.6532

Great post, totally agree with you.

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: Vexus.5423

Vexus.5423

Well said. The nerf trolls got their way, however. No one really cares that I got them to 50% with a Shortbow. They just remember the Heartseeker as they run away with no utility, “OMG why dis guy always on me!”

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Posted by: BlueprintLFE.2358

BlueprintLFE.2358

Completely agree with this post and well said. Thank you.

USMC 1st Battalion 10th Marines
Guardian-Blueprinted, Warrior- Grizzilli
[JCM] Guild: Ehmry Bay WvW

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Posted by: Orion Magus.5348

Orion Magus.5348

No fair Nefarious.2014. Your supposed to just label a class OP without actually playing or understanding that classes mechanics. From your post it’s clear that you have played a thief before,kittenyour logic.

Seriously though, thanks for saying what I‘ve been screaming in my head for a while now.

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: Sharpclaw.7510

Sharpclaw.7510

I’d like to add, as a small note, that we even have some minor traits that discourage wasting initiative. First Strikes jumps to mind..

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Posted by: Libix.1239

Libix.1239

thumbs up to OP

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: obtuse.8291

obtuse.8291

Yes.

yes


thieves are amazing

I am the super thief

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: Humorless.1573

Humorless.1573

Uhm, no. Killing someone by pressing Steal, haste and then mashing one button is not skillfull.

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Posted by: Dual.8953

Dual.8953

That’s pretty much it. Most people see Thieves as “Spam ALL the Skills!”, but in reality they’re quite the opposite. You need to manage your initiative and not overspend it or you’ll be handicapping yourself.

Registered Altaholic
Part-time Kittenposter

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Posted by: Rika.7249

Rika.7249

@Humorless:
It is skilled. A thief has just burned all of his chances of survival to secure a kill, a kill that could easily have been lost if the victim had dodged and locked down the thief.
Pressing the buttons isn’t skill. Knowing when to, is.

Initiative, Spam, and Skill - get it right

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Posted by: Sharpclaw.7510

Sharpclaw.7510

Any tactical decision that leaves you without any way to escape is a high risk one. If you think using Haste is easy, you might be right. But using it wisely? That’s something else entirely. Using Haste and then spamming attacks starves the thief for Endurance and Initiative. Without which, the thief is in an amazingly precarious situation barring smart use of utility skills.

Better yet, there are easy counters to it a majority of the time. Stop getting hit by it and practice some battlefield awareness and maybe you wouldn’t be throwing such a moody.