Guild Wars 2

i see a lot of people disappointed with steal and say that it is a weak mechanic and not very profession defining.

whether this is true or not is not the purpose of this thread.

the true purpose of this thread is to point out that steal is not our only profession mechanic.

we also have INITIATIVE. it seems many people take for granted what initiative does to the thief profession. the troll thing to say would be “lolz Heartseeker spam” but really think about it. it really opens up our gameplay and makes us really stand out from other professions. it adds a level of decision making not present in some other professions. do i save initiative to make a quick escape in case things go wrong? do i burn it all and get a quick kill? as much as weapon swapping helps, many professions are still “press 2-5, wait for cooldown.”

(as a side note and quick thought how awesome would it be to have this mechanic on all classes in an MMO? down with cooldown watching!)

so heres to initiative. the TRUE profession defining mechanic of the thief.

I agree Initiative is awesome.

Initiative can be as restrictive as it can be freeing, but I like it. Forces us to think a bit more tactically on skill use as any weapon skill used detracts from our ability to use other weapon skills, even those on our second weapon set.

Thief profession is great IMHO – it basically forces us to do what thiefs/assasins should do – make a quick strike and then retreat or hide in shadows until we replenish the initiative.

As for steal mechanics – I am still getting used to that, as in the heat of the battle it takes time to check what skill have I stolen and decide when to use it, but paired with 2+1 seconds of stealth and backstab I like it. Still takes some time to learn all the ropes with thief, which is rewarding in the end.

Steal mechanics aren’t that bad imo. With traits you can get extra initiative from it. It can give you an extra stealth/init regen, an AoE whirlwind attack, a strong strike of some kind, and some other things as well. It’s random yes, but not bad.

As for initiative, it fits the thief perfectly. Quick burst damage burning through all your points, and then abiding your time a bit with dodges/stealths/etc before doing it again. Exactly what I’d expect from the class/

I prefer combos like GW1 assassin or just cooldowns, initiative is boring to me. Whether you want to or not, you’re usually spamming one skill, depending on what build you are. Yes yes makes me think tactically… not. It’s incredibly faceroll, let’s be honest. And high initiative regen is insanely easy to achieve.

I only like steal when a warrior is near.

Initiative is by far the most restricting mechanic in the game. You say it forces you to make tactical decisions, which it does, but it also forces things on you. If you’re not using skills your damage plummets, this puts us well below most classes in terms of sustained damage. If you use your initiative you’re not going to have enough most of the time to use your escape skill. Other classes with weapon swapping can be constantly using skills with maybe 1-2 second waiting periods between skills. Not to mention we are almost forced to pick up initiative traits just to make our base mechanic okay. Last time I did the math in beta the thief has 3-4x more downtime between skills(after the burst is used which is like another class using 1-5) than other classes.

Initiative is also really hard to balance, as is evident from the current state of PvP. It creates a ton of burst which is hard to defend against, but it also impacts our sustain. What balances our sustain can overpower our burst and what balances our burst can cripple our sustain.

Change thread title, maybe? Add something that indicates this is really about initiative.

Having inititiative doesn’t change the fact that Steal is an underwhelming, poorly balanced, badly designed mechanic.

Necros got DS AND minions. Rangers have pets AND spirits ( since they’re no different from a standopoint as a mechanic) and other classes have tons of other mechanics as well, if you really want to consider them to be ( mesmers have illusions + shatters, guardians have virtues + spirit weapons etc..)

Initiative is no different as a mechanic than other classes “features”.

It’s a bit misleading to think that the thief is the only class having “multiple” mechanics, and the major reason why people are “lead” to think that Steal can be so underwhelming.

There’re no excuses for Steal to be like that, and i’m saying it knowing that Steal is currently the only thing able to change my fight with my build, because i know that Steal is ABSOLUTELY not fine as it is.

I’m with Mrbig on this one.

Yes, Initiative has it’s ups and downs and not everyone likes it. It doesn’t fit everyone’s play style. But it is clearly useful, functional, and interesting to a lot of players.

Steal is just lame. I never use it and I suspect that hardly anyone else does, either.

It can be useful in some cases – it’s basically a free status-effect and easy way to get into melee distance.

Initiative is key to using the thief in unconventional ways. The last few days I’ve been experimenting with builds using Shadow Arts 30 and trait XI for that nice health regen in stealth. You can use cloak and dagger, regen while in stealth, when you reappear reapply cloak and dagger and repeat – non stop. A great way to heal up in a fight and cause confusion. This would not be possible if cloak and dagger was on a long cool-down.

Steal is underwhelming, yes. I mean ele’s get 4 entire sets of abilities as a profession…

But to say steal is useless is hilarious. It’s a CC breaker, teleport, and is completely separate from main ability cooldowns. Hit Cloak and Dagger + Steal at the same time for a gap closing, ability stealing, buffing, CC breaking, damage dealing invisibility.

At least that’s how it’s used by the gank build. Of course it’s the mokittenn stealing the whirlwind from warriors.

Initiative is pretty much the defining part of the thief, more so than steal, it really sets them apart from any other class.

The fact other professions are able use alittle more skills than the thief is not the point. The point that makes this class is that I can use whatever I want for whatever I need. That makes the thief one of the more flexable classes in the game.

Also unless your really bad, your not going to be spamming your skills on cd, a lot of the skills in this game are situational. Your really not going to increase your dps by firing and forgetting, as a lot of skills are comparable to auto attack, with the few that do a lot of damage being easily avoided. Point being is that the advantage of other class being able to use more skills is not really an advantage. No one wants to use a cd unless it’s actually needed, and sometime damage in not needed.

Initiative is what keeps me on my thief.. Without it I might as well roll, guard, war, engi or ele:) but now when I tried it, it is hard to go back.. And I find steal to be strong, and not as dull as the warriors adrenalin:)

Initiative… It makes the thief the only profession that still use mana. You can name it anything you want, it is just that : a mana pool for skills.
It is not inherently bad, but I feel it is out of place with the rest of the game.

Steal, when used intelligently – and especially when traited into – is an awesome ability that isn’t given enough credit by people who aren’t learning how to use it or giving it a chance.

Initiative is also awesome; I love the fact that it lets us be more versatile, more maneuverable, more calculating, in our builds. Init is one of those things that makes up for us having some weaknesses compared to other classes, when used right. (in fact, the Thief is one of those classes that “when used right” just needs to be tacked onto its head … because it is a class with a learning curve)

Though I love some things about most of the classes I’ve played, I love everything about the Thief … well, everything but our downed state, which is useless 7 out of 10 times … and always go back to her.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Steal, when used intelligently – and especially when traited into – is an awesome ability that isn’t given enough credit by people who aren’t learning how to use it or giving it a chance.

Initiative is also awesome; I love the fact that it lets us be more versatile, more maneuverable, more calculating, in our builds. Init is one of those things that makes up for us having some weaknesses compared to other classes, when used right. (in fact, the Thief is one of those classes that “when used right” just needs to be tacked onto its head … because it is a class with a learning curve)

Though I love some things about most of the classes I’ve played, I love everything about the Thief … well, everything but our downed state, which is useless 7 out of 10 times … and always go back to her.

There’s not enough credit to Steal because it doesn’t have any: Steal currently is simply an OP ability in PvP ( as long as you steal from a guardian/warrior/necro), becoming even more OP and gimmicky if you trait into it , and very, VERY underwhelming in PvE, especially in boss fights.

As i said before, i run an S/D build ad my only reliable burst resides in Mug , and Steal really has the power to change the tide of the fight, but this doesn’t mean the skill is nor balanced neither fun : it’s just OP.

At least in PvP.

In PvE it’s not even OP: you can find better skills by simply picking up environmental weapons.

Simply because Initiative is a good mechanic ( i won’t discuss about its balance altough), it doesn’t mean that Steal can be underwhelming.

You drop environmental items pretty quickly after picking them up, though, which you don’t with the stuff you Steal … which can mean something if you steal a potion of heroism, (of whatever they call the equivalent when it’s stolen) or spinning blades … or stun … or …

I don’t think it’s underwhelming EXCEPT in Boss Fights, where it’s usually useless. Otherwise it’s part of my battle plan in most encounters.

We’re the only class able to use the same skill multiple times in a row. That’s what initiative is. It’s not ‘mana’. It’s choice. Pure and simple.

Cooldowns are ‘mana’ using that example. Time being mana.

Good players will burn cooldowns on one weapon, then swap to their other weapon, burn cooldowns, and swap back, repeat. But no one is there yet.

(Raises goblet to initiative!)

My problem with Initiative is that it encourages you to only use your most efficient attack. There is no encouragement to use other skills for damage as they all share the same resource.

And that fact that only the weapon utility skills actually cost Initiative really limits the opportunity cost analysis we have to perform.

Sure, sometimes it’s important to choose between an Infiltrator Arrow or a Dancing Dagger but those moments are few and far between.

If our utility skills actually cost Initiative I might have a better opinion of it.