Guild Wars 2

in the long run?

or is it something of a novelty?

Maybe I am just not “getting it” yet, but I just started with this new thief, but Stealing doesn’t seem to benefit me much right now.

does it get better?

It gets better when traited. It’s an instant cast, so there’s no reason not to use it anyway.

how long does the Stolen Skill last if you don’t use it?

like, can I steal something at the end of one fight, and save it until I get into another one?

It lasts until you use the ability you stole.

It can be very good depending on the ability that is stolen. My personal favorite is the feathers, which stealth you…because thieves need more ways to go stealth. >.>

Here is the wiki page on what you can steal.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

It’s a 900 range instant cast shadowstep, if absolutely no trait investiture- it’s still a worthwhile ability- especially when you steal from a Mesmer.
Thief’s version of “Save Yourselves!”

as a skill on a 45 sec cooldown, its average….as a class defining ability, its garbage.

its RNG in pve and puts you where you dont want to be when using ranged weapons, which is what a thief uses 90% of the time in dungeons.

it can be made better by traiting it and spending trait points to reduce its cooldown, but the ability itself is not something i would miss in the least if it was removed.

would a warrior, elementalist, guardian, ranger, necro, or engineer play differently without their class mechanics? absolutely…..but a thief wouldnt be affected in the least without untraited steal.

spending points to trait it only means you dont have those points to boost other things that arent RNG or dont make you go into melee range when you are attacking 900 range away, and then forcing you to spend resources to back out again all for a buff or debuff that really isnt even worth the time you spent to aquire it far too often.

It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.

It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.

As a 45s CD instant cast shadowstep that doesn’t cost me a utility skill, I can hardly complain. The stolen skills on the other hand aren’t that good mostly since they got many nerfs.

Kurow.6973:

It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.

It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.

The value comes from getting a utility skill’s worth of power without having to use a utility slot for it.

Giving every thief access to shadowsteps is a big deal. It’s pure gold in all forms of PvP. In PvE you’re burdened by a bunch of bad stolen skills, but it’s still a freebie, and who hates freebies, srsly?

Untraited, it is useful to shadowstep to enemies.

Traited, it can gives you 3 initiative, grants you stealth, applies poison, recharge your skills, deals damage, grants vigor for you and allies, dazes the target and grants fury, might and swiftness to you and your allies.

If you’re ranged its pretty kitten useless

ASP.8093:

Kurow.6973:

It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.

It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.

The value comes from getting a utility skill’s worth of power without having to use a utility slot for it.

Giving every thief access to shadowsteps is a big deal. It’s pure gold in all forms of PvP. In PvE you’re burdened by a bunch of bad stolen skills, but it’s still a freebie, and who hates freebies, srsly?

Oh, is that so!!!

Let’s compare it to a simple skill here…Ride The Lightning…okay? RTL at base is actually better in all shapes and form because you can use it without a target AND in the midst of a jump. Not to mention that it does damage, has a c/d of ONLY 15s (can be reduced further by 20%), and has a range of 1200.

Hey, you thought that was bad? Let’s now compare some even more similar skills…shall we? Lightning Flash, Blink, Shadowstep. As you said…it’s a BIG DEAL that thieves get shadowsteps…right? People are constantly dying left and right in PvP because a silly thief keeps shadowstepping to their face every 45s…what an OP skill.

If a single utility skill were to be equivalent to class specific specialty skill, then all the other classes’ skills need to be SEVERELY toned down. By your logic, Eles are required to have A TON of their skills removed. Same for Guardians, Engineers…I can go on…but you get the picture (I hope).

If you’re trying to defend Steal as a class specialty skill for thief in comparison to ALL the other classes…then the only conclusion I can come to is; you DO NOT play thief, NOR/OR you DO NOT like being killed by glass cannon (easiest to kill) backstab thieves.

There’s a VERY GOOD reason thief players have been unhappy about Steal since the release of beta. Yes, there’s been SOME improvements…but not nearly enough to consider it a GOOD class defining skill in comparison to the rest of the classes. The major improvements has been through some minor trait changes and the removal of RNG in PvP stolen weapons. At best, it’s a free shadowstep every 45s (what a laughable class defining skill) untraited.

…and before you assume, I play, and like my Ele 10x more than my thief. For multiple reasons. Yet, if you knew me, you’d know Ele is NOT the kind of play style I generally prefer. In fact, classes like thief, ranger, war, and even guardian are. However, the lack of real attention to the thief class and its core issues has driven me away from it. Nerfing unnecessary skills because of complaints from bad players, without fixing those core issues and compensating in other areas, does that.

PS: Here’s the list of shadow steps that assassins (almost duplicate, to a degree, of thief) received in GW1: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_step

Technically, the Thief class skill isn’t just F1. It’s F1 + the whole Initiative system.

stof.9341:

Technically, the Thief class skill isn’t just F1. It’s F1 + the whole Initiative system.

This. Comparing Steal straight-up to something like the necromancer profession mechanic would be like comparing necro dagger auto attack to thief dagger auto attack and ignoring the rest of the profession.

Professions need to be evaluated as a whole. Steal works well with the thief profession, it is powerful and useful, and it scales well with traits. The only thing Steal is really lacking is synergy with utility/weapon skills.

Malvagite.3254:

puts you where you dont want to be when using ranged weapons, which is what a thief uses 90% of the time in dungeons.

While I agree that Steal could use an option that doesn’t close range, you must be playing with a vastly different set of thieves than I am. Most thieves I group with in dungeons are damage-focused and use melee weapons.

Tulisin.6945:

Malvagite.3254:

puts you where you dont want to be when using ranged weapons, which is what a thief uses 90% of the time in dungeons.

While I agree that Steal could use an option that doesn’t close range, you must be playing with a vastly different set of thieves than I am. Most thieves I group with in dungeons are damage-focused and use melee weapons.

i dont run Ascalon Catacombs or Citadel of Flames much anymore, but melee was more viable there.

thief daggers are single target damage. you see a good use for that in the dredge fractal, flame fractal or basically any fractal? the majority of the time you are facing multiples of opponents…….stupid amounts at times of 10-15+. melee thief is an anchor to the party. so i dont see them much anymore except in rare situations.

Step 1: Get Mug
Step 2: Kill people

I find steal useful.

Malvagite.3254:

as a skill on a 45 sec cooldown, its average….as a class defining ability, its garbage.

its RNG in pve and puts you where you dont want to be when using ranged weapons, which is what a thief uses 90% of the time in dungeons.

it can be made better by traiting it and spending trait points to reduce its cooldown, but the ability itself is not something i would miss in the least if it was removed.

would a warrior, elementalist, guardian, ranger, necro, or engineer play differently without their class mechanics? absolutely…..but a thief wouldnt be affected in the least without untraited steal.

spending points to trait it only means you dont have those points to boost other things that arent RNG or dont make you go into melee range when you are attacking 900 range away, and then forcing you to spend resources to back out again all for a buff or debuff that really isnt even worth the time you spent to aquire it far too often.

The utility you get from steals is amazing! When you steal from us necros you get a 3 sec fear which is more than our 2 fears chained together. I dunno about you but 3 seconds are a huge amount of total cc. In PvP you also get a 4 sec daze, 10 sec of all boons, a whirl finisher with damage, a 30 sec AoE regen or a 10 sec chill plus damage depending on what profession you stole from. Maybe you would not play differently but me with a main Necro would love for thieves to have a 3 second fear + shadowstep removed! Go ahead ask for it!

Kurow.6973:

People are constantly dying left and right in PvP because a silly thief keeps shadowstepping to their face every 45s…what an OP skill.

Who said it was “OP”? What ever happened to reading “This skill as useful” as “This skill is useful”?

Ride the Lightning is a nice skill. It certainly has a better recharge than Steal. Does Ride the Lightning give you access to on-demand stealth? How ’bout a four-second daze? Can you drink Ride the Lightning to give yourself all the boons? Can you Ride the Lightning in the middle of another skill activation?

And Steal is really, really not the class’ core shtick. That’s initiative, sneak attacks, lots of stealth, and our general movement abilities. Steal is just something that’s there to fill out the F1 slot. But you do get a valuable ability, though it is one that’s much better for PvP. Comparing Steal to virtues or toolbelt or attunements is about as useful as comparing a warrior’s hp to an elementalists: yes, one mechanic is individually more than the other, but how does this affect the classes overall?

People complaining that stealth is not good enought to be a core ability.

Please play other class and learn that thief class specific isn’t only Steal, but stealth attack, initiative/no cooldown attack.

I would trade any other class specifique for your initiative system anytime. Hell have fun with my Death Shroud.

Deadly Arts

Serpent’s Touch – Stealing applies poison for 10 seconds.
Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions)(Random one of five)
Mug – Deal damage when stealing.

Shadow Arts

Hidden Thief – Stealing grants you 2 seconds of stealth.

Trickery

Each point in Trickery increases the recharge rate of stealing by 1%.
Kleptomaniac – Stealing gives you 3 initiative.
Bountiful Theft – Stealing grants you and all nearby allies vigor for 15 seconds. Up to two boons are also ripped from your target and granted to nearby allies.
Long Reach – Increases the range on stealing.
Sleight of Hand – Stealing also dazes your target for 1 second.
Thrill of the Crime – When you steal, you and all nearby allies gain fury, might and swiftness for 10 seconds.

I really do not understand why these threads keep poping up. Steal is a great skill, could it use some work? Sure! Better ranged option might be nice, but for what it is, it does its job well. An instant cast shadowstep skill that can be significantly traited to do some pretty amazing things. I would not go out of my way to get all the traits associated with Steal, but you will find steal driven traits in just about every thief trait line. Personally I would never run a build without putting 5 points into Trickery to give me 3 Initiative from Steal, and as a poster above me said, Mug from the Deadly Arts line is great for some added burst damage.

Sorry to those that find this skill useless, it is rarely off cooldown while I am out in PvE or PvP.

Right now when I use steal, on top of the instant gap filler, I apply poison to my target, give myself and my party vigor and random boons, and I gain initiative……How is that useless?

JMadFour.9730:

in the long run?

or is it something of a novelty?

Maybe I am just not “getting it” yet, but I just started with this new thief, but Stealing doesn’t seem to benefit me much right now.

does it get better?

It’s a great skill. especially in PvP when people run. I run S/P so I can shadowstep to someone that’s running away and if they dodge ahead I just use steal and I’m back in their face. It has plenty of use in PvE as well.

It is an awkward mechanic. Independently, an instant cast shadow step is great, and a “steal ability” skill with traited self-buffing is interesting.

It would have been slicker if F1 was a straight shadow step on a shorter base cool down (30 seconds) and F2 was “steal” (traits would apply to F2) with the same range as F1 on the current cool down (45 seconds).

That would give a gap closer to melee thieves, steal would be useful to ranged thieves and it would reduce the number of times you waste the benefits of F1 because all you want is the gap closer or the initiative or the stolen skill.

steal is obscenely useful, yes

the people that say steal is useless have obviously never played thief. instant cast shadowstep that does pretty good damage while traited on a 45s cooldown, and you say it sucks? you fail.. the only problem with it is the stolen skills are kind of lacking.

Kyosji.8961:

snip
Each point in Trickery increases the recharge rate of stealing by 1%.
snip

While most of that is good info. It should be known that, while the tool-tip DOES state this, it has always been broken and does NOT, in fact, reduce the CD.

I like Steal. I really, really do.

I don’t really see “Each point in Trickery increases the recharge rate of stealing by 1%” as a selling point for Steal, though. It’s more like a black mark against Trickery.

Kurow.6973:

It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.

It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.

Way too much traiting = First tier trait in Deadly Arts.

Adaneshade.2409:

Kyosji.8961:

snip
Each point in Trickery increases the recharge rate of stealing by 1%.
snip

While most of that is good info. It should be known that, while the tool-tip DOES state this, it has always been broken and does NOT, in fact, reduce the CD.

It doesn’t reduce the displayed cooldown when you mouse over the skill. But if you activate it, there is a reduced cooldown.

You didn’t even try to know if you were right, did you?

Shady C.5041:

Kurow.6973:

It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.

It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.

Way too much traiting = First tier trait in Deadly Arts.

Oh, thieves get all the bonuses for steal from the very first tier trait in deadly arts? Good to know!

I always thought they were all spread out all over and required multiple tiers, and traits. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

Well then…nerf steal please, since you get all the benefits from just first tier trait in deadly arts…that adds power as welll. OP!!!!

Kurow.6973:

Shady C.5041:

Kurow.6973:

It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.

It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.

Way too much traiting = First tier trait in Deadly Arts.

Oh, thieves get all the bonuses for steal from the very first tier trait in deadly arts? Good to know!

I always thought they were all spread out all over and required multiple tiers, and traits. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

Well then…nerf steal please, since you get all the benefits from just first tier trait in deadly arts…that adds power as welll. OP!!!!

This is a ridiculous sentiment.

No class gets full benefit from anything at all from one trait or two.

That being said, the BEST addition to the Steal ability is Mug. And most Thieves use Mug as Steal’s only modifier, because it’s all you need.

Yes, there’s many other ways to modify Steal to make it, itself, better. But those are more specific to other builds, such as a more stealth-heavy build, or what have you.

In actuality, Steal is one of the most versatile abilities in the game because of this. But you fail to see this, because you want to be able to throw on all of its modifications into a single, optimal build to rule them all.

Shady C.5041:

This is a ridiculous sentiment.

No class gets full benefit from anything at all from one trait or two.

That being said, the BEST addition to the Steal ability is Mug. And most Thieves use Mug as Steal’s only modifier, because it’s all you need.

Yes, there’s many other ways to modify Steal to make it, itself, better. But those are more specific to other builds, such as a more stealth-heavy build, or what have you.

In actuality, Steal is one of the most versatile abilities in the game because of this. But you fail to see this, because you want to be able to throw on all of its modifications into a single, optimal build to rule them all.

Assumptions aren’t nice, nor are they accurate.

as thief, I Always use steal:

- First, this is for melee user. not range
- You must have these trait: (Deadly Arts)Mug – Deal damage when stealing + (Shadow Arts) Hidden Thief – Stealing grants you 2 seconds of stealth.
- have basilisk venom
- Use Basilisk Venom then Steal (your foe become stone because the steal deal damage) and you going stealth (Auto attack will stop here) and then use shortcut 1 for back stab, and then Dagger and cloack and then back stab again.

I usually use this on pvp for chasing someone or kill brust. and Pve for kill faster.

fyi: Basilisk venom and steal have same cooldown.

Febrizzio.8024:

as thief, I Always use steal:

- First, this is for melee user. not range
- You must have these trait: (Deadly Arts)Mug – Deal damage when stealing + (Shadow Arts) Hidden Thief – Stealing grants you 2 seconds of stealth.
- have basilisk venom
- Use Basilisk Venom then Steal (your foe become stone because the steal deal damage) and you going stealth (Auto attack will stop here) and then use shortcut 1 for back stab, and then Dagger and cloack and then back stab again.

I usually use this on pvp for chasing someone or kill brust. and Pve for kill faster.

fyi: Basilisk venom and steal have same cooldown.

So you’re exploiting.

Attacking out of stealth debuffs you to be unable to restealth for 4 seconds. So a stealthing Mug into Backstab into Cloak & Dagger should be entirely useless if you’re playing exploit-free…

Kurow.6973:

Assumptions aren’t nice, nor are they accurate.

Blah blah blah, words. What are you even talking about? Do you know what the definition of an assumption is? Because nothing I said at any point in time was one of those.

Also, simply everything you say is biased and misleading. Here’s just one of your clown statements:

At best, it’s a free shadowstep every 45s (what a laughable class defining skill) untraited.

How is an untraited Steal “at best”?

You have to be a troll. Or just not smart enough where debating with you is worth it.

Shady C.5041:

Blah blah blah, words. What are you even talking about? Do you know what the definition of an assumption is? Because nothing I said at any point in time was one of those.

Is that so?

Shady C.5041:

…the BEST addition to the Steal ability is Mug.

Assumption!

Shady C.5041:

…most Thieves use Mug as Steal’s only modifier, because it’s all you need.

Assumption!

Shady C.5041:

…you fail to see this, because you want to be able to throw on all of its modifications into a single, optimal build to rule them all.

Assumption!

Shady C.5041:

Also, simply everything you say is biased and misleading. Here’s just one of your clown statements:

At best, it’s a free shadowstep every 45s (what a laughable class defining skill) untraited.

How is an untraited Steal “at best”?

You have to be a troll. Or just not smart enough where debating with you is worth it.

Going to assume English is not your first language, and leave it at that.

PS: Do try hitting the “Edit” button once in a while. I’m sure you’ll be impressed at what it can do.

Assumption =/= Opinion…

Assumption =/= Actual statistic…

Assumption =/= Data I can prove by quoting the very source you’re trying to defend (yourself):

Oh, thieves get all the bonuses for steal from the very first tier trait in deadly arts? Good to know!

When you use this as an argument AGAINST the statement that Steal is great just by getting one or two of its many modifications, then no, I am not making any assumptions.

So, in summary… You need to look up the definition of “assumption”.

Edit: While you’re at it, look up what “at best” means, if you really don’t know what’s wrong with calling an untraited Steal “at best”.

Shady C.5041:

Assumption =/= Opinion…

Assumption =/= Actual statistic…

Assumption =/= Data I can prove by quoting the very source you’re trying to defend (yourself):

Oh, thieves get all the bonuses for steal from the very first tier trait in deadly arts? Good to know!

When you use this as an argument AGAINST the statement that Steal is great just by getting one or two of its many modifications, then no, I am not making any assumptions.

So, in summary… You need to look up the definition of “assumption”.

Do I really need to break the quotes down even further to bring your assumptions into light?

Do I need to type “/end sarcasm” after every sarcastic statement I make for you? This won’t be happening…if you couldn’t already figure that one out!

Please, do tell me that English is not your first language!!!!

Shady C.5041:

Edit: While you’re at it, look up what “at best” means, if you really don’t know what’s wrong with calling an untraited Steal “at best”.

I do believe it’s you who needs to “look up what at best means”…and understand the context it’s used in…before you continue trying to argue with me. Thanks!

Oh my god, every time I see you left a reply, I actually sigh IRL.

Everyone else here sees you for your colors, so I’m outta here. Get your last word, I don’t care.

But yeah, go ahead and “expose my assumptions” if you want.

I don’t see how any thief can sit here and argue that Steal is a bad class only skill… it gives you access to some of the best skills in the game (hello Whirling Axe and Consume Plasma). Of course I am talking pvp here. You can’t just sit here and be all “oh well it’s basically just a shadowstep!!!!111” because it isn’t. Depending on the situation, it gives you some pretty overpowered options to choose from for that class skill. Likewise it allows you to use 2 stolen skills by saving one from a previous fight.

Now what I won’t argue about is the fact that the thief class itself is just relatively boring. The steal mechanic itself is BORING. It really feels like they didn’t know what to do for f1 skills for the class (outside of the initiative system) so they just threw something in. And honestly, the whole thief class design as a whole is a bit lacking.

Shady C.5041:

Oh my god, every time I see you left a reply, I actually sigh IRL.

Everyone else here sees you for your colors, so I’m outta here. Get your last word, I don’t care.

But yeah, go ahead and “expose my assumptions” if you want.

Are you a victim of panic attacks? Too much sighing is a good sign of it. I’d recommend you consult your health professional.

Shrack.8013:

I don’t see how any thief can sit here and argue that Steal is a bad class only skill… it gives you access to some of the best skills in the game (hello Whirling Axe and Consume Plasma). Of course I am talking pvp here. You can’t just sit here and be all “oh well it’s basically just a shadowstep!!!!111” because it isn’t. Depending on the situation, it gives you some pretty overpowered options to choose from for that class skill. Likewise it allows you to use 2 stolen skills by saving one from a previous fight.

Now what I won’t argue about is the fact that the thief class itself is just relatively boring. The steal mechanic itself is BORING. It really feels like they didn’t know what to do for f1 skills for the class (outside of the initiative system) so they just threw something in. And honestly, the whole thief class design as a whole is a bit lacking.

Throw Gunk is my favourite!

Kurow.6973:

Shady C.5041:

Oh my god, every time I see you left a reply, I actually sigh IRL.

Everyone else here sees you for your colors, so I’m outta here. Get your last word, I don’t care.

But yeah, go ahead and “expose my assumptions” if you want.

Are you a victim of panic attacks? Too much sighing is a good sign of it. I’d recommend you consult your health professional.

Shrack.8013:

I don’t see how any thief can sit here and argue that Steal is a bad class only skill… it gives you access to some of the best skills in the game (hello Whirling Axe and Consume Plasma). Of course I am talking pvp here. You can’t just sit here and be all “oh well it’s basically just a shadowstep!!!!111” because it isn’t. Depending on the situation, it gives you some pretty overpowered options to choose from for that class skill. Likewise it allows you to use 2 stolen skills by saving one from a previous fight.

Now what I won’t argue about is the fact that the thief class itself is just relatively boring. The steal mechanic itself is BORING. It really feels like they didn’t know what to do for f1 skills for the class (outside of the initiative system) so they just threw something in. And honestly, the whole thief class design as a whole is a bit lacking.

Throw Gunk is my favourite!

Being that your previous posts are dripping with sarcasm, I’m guessing this is too. I will just say throw gunk is very powerful, and actually IS my favorite steal package.

Throw Gunk looks like crap. Then you realize it’s a combo field.

ASP.8093:

Throw Gunk looks like crap. Then you realize it’s a combo field.

It’s my favourite because I get to sit inside a pretty little pink/purple bubble…like a princess!

How can I integrate steal into a Pistol-focused playstyle?

I chose to try Thief because it was one of the only two classes that can use Pistols as a Main Hand Weapon, and I already tried Engineer for a bit.

JMadFour.9730:

How can I integrate steal into a Pistol-focused playstyle?

I chose to try Thief because it was one of the only two classes that can use Pistols as a Main Hand Weapon, and I already tried Engineer for a bit.

Run P/D, take stealth-on-steal for free sneak attacks + closers for C&D as soon as revealed wears off.

Tulisin.6945:

JMadFour.9730:

How can I integrate steal into a Pistol-focused playstyle?

I chose to try Thief because it was one of the only two classes that can use Pistols as a Main Hand Weapon, and I already tried Engineer for a bit.

Run P/D, take stealth-on-steal for free sneak attacks + closers for C&D as soon as revealed wears off.

I’ll give it a shot. Having a lot of fun with Pistol/Pistol thus far. though I hear it is like utterly useless at high levels, or whatever.

JMadFour.9730:

Tulisin.6945:

JMadFour.9730:

How can I integrate steal into a Pistol-focused playstyle?

I chose to try Thief because it was one of the only two classes that can use Pistols as a Main Hand Weapon, and I already tried Engineer for a bit.

Run P/D, take stealth-on-steal for free sneak attacks + closers for C&D as soon as revealed wears off.

I’ll give it a shot. Having a lot of fun with Pistol/Pistol thus far. though I hear it is like utterly useless at high levels, or whatever.

Not utterly useless, it could just use some help, as the devs have now acknowledged.