Guild Wars 2

Here’s my take on thieves after having just lvl’d my thief to 80.

Let’s be honest — thief really isn’t the best class for DPS. There is a class that is suited much better than thieves to dish out the most damage, called Warrior. Of course, you can have a Thief with better gear against a more inferior Warrior, and the Thief would win, but if they both have exceptional gear with cleverly laid out build then overall, Warrior would beat Thief at this game.

DPS-wise, Thief is not the best.

Thief is also not as good as other classes for tanking. When people want to play their Thief as a tank, they’ll soon realize that it is hopeless despite having invested in Toughness, Healing, and Vitality; they will find themselves having to dodge out of combat instead of staying in combat for prolonged period of time, which is what an effective tanker should do.

Thief is not the best at tanking. It is the Guardian’s job.

Thief has some great support skills — they can stealth allies and give regeneration; give out venoms to the party; and are very effective at reviving downed allies with Shadow Refuge. However, there are couple other classes that are rewarded with better support skills. Guardian and Warrior all have shouts and such that will give a large amount of boons. Necromancers and their conditions will leave a challenge for opponents. Engineers and their inventions will supply a steady flow of support for the whole team.

Thief is not the best at support…

Finally, while Thief does have good condition skills.. there are Necromancers, Mesmers, and Engineers.

So what is the Thief the best at? Why go for a GC when you can roll a Warrior? and why would you ever think of making a tank/support thief?

that is the question i like for a-net to answer
WHERE we fit in a team ?!? what is our job ?
just dodging around 1 more time than the other classes if we spec for it ?? is this all the thief is best at ?
i am not talking about wvw…

I made a thief because its fun to tinker with while the other classes felt like facerolling.

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?

At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault

check this out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-suck-in-PvE

A smart and a wellplayed GC thief is a really nice addition in dungeoning, since he has best single target spike. Although for a thief to shine maximally he needs support from a guard and damageboost through fury+might from a warrior. And due to less survivability it needs a bit higher lvl of skill to play well than your average warrior. I would always pick a good thief 10/10 times over some “CoF warrior” who plays it as an alt.

I think the overall negativity towards thieves in PvE comes from “assassin” classes usually attracting a lot of players from the playergroup who have the unfortunate combination of pretty bad personality traits and skill level less than what they perceive to have. Due to that a bad warrior is easier to shrug off since they have better survivability in PvE, while a thief requires to be played well to be effective.

That said, I don’t really care what my teamsetup is in dungeons as long as people play well and carry their load. I do prefer atleast one support class though.

In other areas (wvwvw, tpvp) thieves have no trouble fitting in.

I think you’ll enjoy the thief more if you play it how yiu want/like to play it. I think too many people ask how Anet wants them to play it or how they fit in. In sure when they came up with the professions they didn’t know. There is no worst class in my mind. It’s a game. Sit back, relax , enjoy the thief play style and you’ll have a fun time.

I stopped reading after you said warriors do more damage. In an aoe vs 3 targets, all in melee range then yea, warrior wins. Against a boss, thief wins. Thief needs to play better, but they still win.

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

They do? From my experience it doesn’t feel like that is true and groups doing speed runs will use zerker warriors over thieves.

Alex.6940:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

They do? From my experience it doesn’t feel like that is true and groups doing speed runs will use zerker warriors over thieves.

so true
zerker warrior > anything else

Thieves are not meant for PVE. They are good at staying alive in wvw. That’s really about the only niche they have.

They also have good burst in spvp. Got nerfed pretty hard with mug nerf but still they can hit hard in with a single backstab and repeat it fairly quickly.

Alex.6940:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

They do? From my experience it doesn’t feel like that is true and groups doing speed runs will use zerker warriors over thieves.

try 30-30-10-0-0
and @CoF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCdnhkdHXYg

thief can be the worst class in game if u didn’t know how to maximize their capability. being an average/fair/good thief is not enough… but imo this is the most OP class when u played it very well/superb playing!

Team Play!? thieves not that bad. actually they can be a life saver. shadow refuge then rez your mate. is a big help for the team! u can easily finish by CnD finish, black powder finish, shadowstep stomp finish, when finishing an enemy thief. use any shadow step if they teleport somewhere. only hard classes to finish @ one time are the eles and mesmers.

thieves can’t even go into a dungeon without going ranged!!! pistol/pistol and shortbow are the only viable weapon set for a dungeon thief!!!!!

/sarcasm

Zacchary.6183:

I made a thief because its fun to tinker with while the other classes felt like facerolling.

Then you play your thief wrong :P

Anubarak.3012:

Alex.6940:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

They do? From my experience it doesn’t feel like that is true and groups doing speed runs will use zerker warriors over thieves.

try 30-30-10-0-0
and @CoF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCdnhkdHXYg

Wow that may have been one of the fastest speed runs i’ve ever seen and you didn’t get downed one single time.

Thanks for posting that Anubarak, very well done

Anubarak.3012:

Alex.6940:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

They do? From my experience it doesn’t feel like that is true and groups doing speed runs will use zerker warriors over thieves.

try 30-30-10-0-0
and @CoF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCdnhkdHXYg

As I understand it a thief offers the highest potential single target dps, but this relies on 25 stacks of might, 100% fury uptime etc. In a group that can maintain these conditions, a thief may offer higher dps, although I doubt it would be a significant increase.

If it was a zerker thief and a zerker warrior without group buffs then i think the warrior offers higher dps. With this in mind, I would imagine that only a small section of the community would see an increase in the groups total dps with a thief over a warrior, and a relatively minor one at that.

thieves don’t really have a place, and i would argue that they don’t belong in this game.

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?

At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault

check this out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-suck-in-PvE

why do all groups in cof elite only run 4 warriors 1 mesmer? why not 4 thieves 1 mesmer? plz answer this

no
“The 15 Character Couplet”
I needed 15 letters, so I wrote this little ditty,
The forums need a new rule, ’cos this ones rather…. bad(?)

Thieves are great for applying conditions and boons with the proper group setup. With our spammable blast finisher, we can give a group 25 stacks of might within seconds, or apply mass vulnerability or blind.

Night Fiend.1942:

Thieves are great for applying conditions and boons with the proper group setup. With our spammable blast finisher, we can give a group 25 stacks of might within seconds, or apply mass vulnerability or blind.

Call me extravagant… but I like to play killing monsters, not circles on the floor…

Travlane.5948:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?

At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault

check this out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-suck-in-PvE

why do all groups in cof elite only run 4 warriors 1 mesmer? why not 4 thieves 1 mesmer? plz answer this

Because the thief needs to have the buffs on him to out damage the other players, but has issues generating the buffs himself. Also if one player messes up he’s in a worse situation on a thief vs a war.

I have done COF p1 speed runs with 3 war 1 thief 1 mes and it works great. You just need to know where to position the mobs for the thief to be able to backstab (Ex. there is a place you can jump up on a small lip behind the slave driver if you do the pull right).

@ the vid above… why you edit down the vid as to make the run seem shorter? >.>

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?

At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault

check this out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-suck-in-PvE

Yeah, no. I’ve tried out doing the dps output Hundred Blades grants. Sure our burst is more reliable but in PvE enemies don’t dodge out of Hundred Blades and Warriors can use it at least every 8 seconds, hitting the enemy for the same as our alpha strike backstab without the need for set up or positioning, not to mention cleaving. Oh and their Triple Chop virtually has the same damage rating as backstab and it’s part of thier auto attack chain.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Zacchary.6183:

I made a thief because its fun to tinker with while the other classes felt like facerolling.

Then you play your thief wrong :P

At least I am not playing the game wrong. :P

Travlane.5948:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?

At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault

check this out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-suck-in-PvE

why do all groups in cof elite only run 4 warriors 1 mesmer? why not 4 thieves 1 mesmer? plz answer this

We need at least one Warrior to stack might… and well the answer is easy: when you compare a high dps thief with a high dps warrior you’ll notice that a warrior is much easier to play. 18hp vs 11k hp… warriors have more armor, more health, more evades and you need to be more organized.

Tell a warrior he should use 4 banners to stack might in a combofield. I can image 75% of them dont even know what a combo is, the rest wont use them cause they want to have their signet of rage.

Its just so much easier for a warrior to reach such a high dps. Thieves need more skill for that

Edit: oh I forgot: 99.9999% of all people dont even know how strong thieves can be.. Just like you

Travlane.5948:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?

At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault

check this out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-suck-in-PvE

why do all groups in cof elite only run 4 warriors 1 mesmer? why not 4 thieves 1 mesmer? plz answer this

i would also like to know the answer .

dodge at the right time use the right skill at the right time use the right traits for your weapons, no metter what class you are, if you follow these 3 easy steps you’d be number 1

I’ve always played my Thief as a Kiting/Survival DPS class more then anything…
What is the difference between Kiting and Tanking? Both hold Aggro, but Tanking is taking the damage/healing it back up, while Kiting is just avoiding the damage.

I think people are still too stuck up in the Trinity to see a class that doesn’t fit perfectly into those roles as something good. I can dodge and be just as effective as a Tank can.

Tengu.4209:

I’ve always played my Thief as a Kiting/Survival DPS class more then anything…
What is the difference between Kiting and Tanking? Both hold Aggro, but Tanking is taking the damage/healing it back up, while Kiting is just avoiding the damage.

I think people are still too stuck up in the Trinity to see a class that doesn’t fit perfectly into those roles as something good. I can dodge and be just as effective as a Tank can.

Tanking is the manly way, and you must be manly in everything you do

http://epicdemotivational.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/so-demotivational-posters-real-men.jpg

DanH.5879:

Travlane.5948:

Anubarak.3012:

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.

Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?

At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault

check this out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-suck-in-PvE

why do all groups in cof elite only run 4 warriors 1 mesmer? why not 4 thieves 1 mesmer? plz answer this

i would also like to know the answer .

The answer is simple as daylight.
Thieves are different from warrior.
PvE-wise, they are way less forgiving compared to a warrion because their defensive capabilities rely on avoiding damage more then tanking it.
While warriors are more noob-friendly, because they are capable to hold more hits compared to Thief when running full zerker, thieves just die in a couple of swings.

People take time to understand this simple thing and run dungeon on Thief just like it was a Warrior, they fail hard and harder, to the point they created prejudices like “Thief is bad in PvE”, “Thieves are squishy” and “Warriors are better”. Those are bullkittens.

Play your thief as it is supposed to be played. Dodge damage instead of just swinging your sword and forget about it, that’s all.

When it comes to weapon skill design we are. Many of our builds end up having a weapon skill or more that we have no reason to use. They need to be a little diverse to fit into each type of build, or give us more off-hand/main hand options.

If a bad player is playing thief then it will be the worst class. If the worst player in the game plays a thief they will fail harder than with any other class. Engi and ele would be close but they have enough omgwtfgtfo buttons that are instant cast that would keep the idiot player alive for 4s longer than they would have lasted on thief.

Now get a good player and thief will be one of the better classes in most situations.

randomfightfan.4091:

Now get a good player and thief will be one of the better classes in most situations.

i don’t think the non-thief player base agrees with that…
make a poll…oh wait….this forum can’t

So, with a poor player, Thief is without doubt the worst. With a skilled player it can be a fairly good class in many situations?

That sounds about fair.

If we assume that fractals 30+ are difficult PvE content, harder than dungeons, then a good thief can perform better in difficult content than a capable player from other classes. So balance isn’t completely out of line. If you are looking for speed runs or the most difficult possible content then gaps in class capability will always get picked out.

Stooperdale.3560:

If we assume that fractals 30+ are difficult PvE content, harder than dungeons, then a good thief can perform better in difficult content than a capable player from other classes. So balance isn’t completely out of line. If you are looking for speed runs or the most difficult possible content then gaps in class capability will always get picked out.

I’ve never had any problems with any of the content in this game on my thief. I also excel quite well in most situations (PvE wise, don’t play LagVLag and hate capture the point). I’m under the impression that every group, no matter where, should always have 1 thief minimum (who knows what they’re doing… sadly, which is rare). Doing that will make any run go by faster, running will be easier/smoother, and the thief will always have tools for any situation.

It depends what you mean by worst class.

Dungeons? Yes, the worst class
tPvP? Below average
sPvP? Really good (You can dominate as d/d or d/p without really knowing how to play)
WvW? Good for yak killings and roaming
PvE? S/P is nice and you can facetank some of the bosses with the blinding powder.

Ultimately warriors have better DPS in dungeons. Reason being is because they can hit multiple targets with their GS(3, I think, at least that’s what my guardian hits). Thief has more single target DPS, but the dungeon designs focus around mobs of multiple monsters, not a single monster. They are also much more tankier and have better support.

As far as the thief goes…it’s a solo class and always has been. It’s also decent for skipping mobs, but I don’t think the thief’s strength should be

‘that class you rely on to skip that one monster you encounter once in a dungeon’

Doomdesire.9365:

Ultimately warriors have better DPS in dungeons. Reason being is because they can hit multiple targets with their GS(3, I think, at least that’s what my guardian hits). Thief has more single target DPS, but the dungeon designs focus around mobs of multiple monsters, not a single monster. They are also much more tankier and have better support.

As far as the thief goes…it’s a solo class and always has been. It’s also decent for skipping mobs, but I don’t think the thief’s strength should be

‘that class you rely on to skip that one monster you encounter once in a dungeon’

That’s why thieves in dungeon run S/P.
Pistol Whip is AoE too.

sorrow.2364:

Doomdesire.9365:

Ultimately warriors have better DPS in dungeons. Reason being is because they can hit multiple targets with their GS(3, I think, at least that’s what my guardian hits). Thief has more single target DPS, but the dungeon designs focus around mobs of multiple monsters, not a single monster. They are also much more tankier and have better support.

As far as the thief goes…it’s a solo class and always has been. It’s also decent for skipping mobs, but I don’t think the thief’s strength should be

‘that class you rely on to skip that one monster you encounter once in a dungeon’

That’s why thieves in dungeon run S/P.
Pistol Whip is AoE too.

Thief Sword has lower DPS than a Warrior GS

Ohh Ohh.. I have never used this phrase but let me have a go at it… [since it’s such a popular phrase within the thief community]

Ahem!..~~ If You played a thief and concluded them to be an average class or a bad class then… Wait for it….. Wait for it…. You need to L2P! LMFAO!!

Doomdesire.9365:

Thief Sword has lower DPS than a Warrior GS

It isn’t exactly true.
On Warrior GS you see bigger numbers due to Hundred Blades being longer channel time and thukitten for more damage, but Pistol Whip can be used twice or even more times in a row.
Talking about raw autoattack base damage, Sword autoattack has still better DPS compared to GS autoattack, just check the wiki.

So no, Warrior GS haven’t better DPS then Thief sword.

We aren’t even considering all the side utilities of S/P, like AoE blindness, extremely useful on mitigating damage, and the fact that you are destroying defiant stacks while bursting down your boss.

Plus, thieves have more and better damage boosting traits.
Let’s consider only the damage-oriented traitlines:

Warrior:
- Stick and Move: 3% when endurance is not full
- Berserker’s Power: 12% when full adrenaline
- Slashing Power: 10% on GS
Total: 25%

I don’t consider Attack of Opportunity (cuz if you’re running on GS, you have no bleeding) neither Destruction of the Empowered, because boss usually have no boons.

Thief:
- Exposed Weakness: 10% damage if the enemy has a condition
- Combined Trainin: +5% damage on dual skills
- First Strikes: 10% damage if initiative is over 6
- Executioner: 20% damage if enemy is under 50%
Total: 25% and 45% if the enemy is under 50% hp (half the boss fight).

Consider also that Thief has Precision and Critical Damage on the same traitline, so while Warriors have to chose between Precision and Critical Damage, thief can have them both and also spend some points into Shadow Arts, Trickery or Acrobatics.

bladie.5084:

Ohh Ohh.. I have never used this phrase but let me have a go at it… [since it’s such a popular phrase within the thief community]

Ahem!..~~ If You played a thief and concluded them to be an average class or a bad class then… Wait for it….. Wait for it…. You need to L2P! LMFAO!!

sorrow.2364:

DanH.5879:

i would also like to know the answer .

The answer is simple as daylight.
Thieves are different from warrior.
People take time to understand this simple thing and run dungeon on Thief just like it was a Warrior, they fail hard and harder, to the point they created prejudices like “Thief is bad in PvE”, “Thieves are squishy” and “Warriors are better”. Those are bullkittens.

Play your thief as it is supposed to be played. Dodge damage instead of just swinging your sword and forget about it, that’s all.

Nosense. No one who plays a thief charges to monsters screaming ’I’M THE UBAH WAARRIAHHH!!!! UUURGHH!!!!’ Nobody does that. That’s nothing more than another of those prejudices spread mostly by thief haters.

However, you are right in only one thing: thieves are different from warriors, Yes, they have to dodge in combat and disengage from time to time to stay alive.

While dodging/disengaging they are not attacking, thus, not DPS.

So, even if in the ‘DPS-meter’ thieves were remotely close to warriors in the theory (which is highly arguable), in practice, they will end up doing less overall DPS anyways, because they suffer much more ‘time-outs’ from dodges, stealths, and disengages. A simple as that.

If thieves had more base damage to compensate for the extra time-out or if they could keep doing damage while evading, then, we could truly start speaking about DPS equality in dungeons.

@ sorrow

warriors bleed on critical regardless of weapon Precise Strikes 33% chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
you didn’t mention Forceful Greatsword Gain might on critical hit with a greatsword or spear. Greatsword and spear skill [sic] recharge 20% faster.
Rending Strikes 33% chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Dual Wielding Damage is increased by 5% when wielding an axe, mace, or sword in your offhand.
Axe Mastery Improve critical damage by 10% while wielding an axe in your main hand.
Heightened Focus Gain a 2% critical-hit chance for 1 stage of adrenaline, 5% for 2 stages, and 9% for 3 stages.

For thief I’m going to assume 25-30-10-0-5 or 25-30-0-0-15
Thief does more damage with daggers than sword pistol so 5% dagger damage will usually be better. I get that you’re mostly comparing in aoe terms but there is almost no bosses in this game where you need aoe. The only real exceptions are Lupi but only in phase 1 and Alpha but only when you need to break someone out of a crystal. Never had another situation where I thought to myself “a sword would be nice right now” over daggers.
You also forgot these traits for thief
Keen Observer Critical-hit chance is increased by 5% while health is over 90%.
Infusion of Shadow Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths you. – You can now perma cnd-backstab chain and never lose that 10% damage bonus from 6+ ini
Kleptomaniac Stealing gives you 3 initiative.
Flanking Strikes Increases damage by 5% when attacking a foe from behind or the side.
Combo Critical Chance Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.

A general 20-25-0-0-15 warrior will have 32% damage bonus + might and vuln on crits. Axe mace will have 27% damage bonus and10% crit damage bonus. Vuln on crits but no might. They also only have 200 power, 250 prec, and 15% crit damage from traits.

Edit: I realized after writing this that I only gave the warrior 60 trait points instead of 70. B/c of that my math is a little low so it’s up to you where you want to put those extra 10 points. No other traits will give you much extra bonus damage though. It’s 100 power and 3% damage from the power line or 10% crit damage if all you care about is damage.

A general dps Thief will have 50% damage bonus and a high ini pool OR 45% and never have initiative sustain problems. They both have situational +12% passive crit chance (possible 17% if you’re using pistol whip and trait). 250 power, 300 prec, and 30% crit damage from traits.

tldr~ the long and short basically is that both classes have a lot of ways to get high coefficients and they both do a kittenton of dps. The warrior does more in terms of vuln and might but thief can take advantage better if they have all the same boons/conditions.

Kyrion.2749:

Nosense. No one who plays a thief charges to monsters screaming ’I’M THE UBAH WAARRIAHHH!!!! UUURGHH!!!!’ Nobody does that. That’s nothing more than another of those prejudices spread mostly by thief haters.

However, you are right in only one thing: thieves are different from warriors, Yes, they have to dodge in combat and disengage from time to time to stay alive.

While dodging/disengaging they are not attacking, thus, not DPS.

So, even if in the ‘DPS-meter’ thieves were remotely close to warriors in the theory (which is highly arguable), in practice, they will end up doing less overall DPS anyways, because they suffer much more ‘time-outs’ from dodges, stealths, and disengages. A simple as that.

If thieves had more base damage to compensate for the extra time-out or if they could keep doing damage while evading, then, we could truly start speaking about DPS equality in dungeons.

Avoiding damage doesn’t necessarily means dodging.
Guess what, thieves can do damage while evading!
It is called Pistol Whip, Flanking Strike and CnD+Backstab chain (since Stealth is almost invulnerability in PvE).
Oh, they can also do damage while blinding your melee enemy with Black Powder!

So you think no Thief charge to monsters screaming “I’M THE UBAH WAARRIAHHH!!!! UUURGHH!!!!”? Yeah, you’re probably right.
They usually scream “’I’M THE UBAH THIEEEEF!!!! UUURGHH!!!!” when they are charging mindlessly to monsters.

randomfightfan.4091:

@ sorrow

warriors bleed on critical regardless of weapon Precise Strikes 33% chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
you didn’t mention Forceful Greatsword Gain might on critical hit with a greatsword or spear. Greatsword and spear skill [sic] recharge 20% faster.
Rending Strikes 33% chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Dual Wielding Damage is increased by 5% when wielding an axe, mace, or sword in your offhand.
Axe Mastery Improve critical damage by 10% while wielding an axe in your main hand.
Heightened Focus Gain a 2% critical-hit chance for 1 stage of adrenaline, 5% for 2 stages, and 9% for 3 stages.

For thief I’m going to assume 25-30-10-0-5 or 25-30-0-0-15
Thief does more damage with daggers than sword pistol so 5% dagger damage will usually be better. I get that you’re mostly comparing in aoe terms but there is almost no bosses in this game where you need aoe. The only real exceptions are Lupi but only in phase 1 and Alpha but only when you need to break someone out of a crystal. Never had another situation where I thought to myself “a sword would be nice right now” over daggers.
You also forgot these traits for thief
Keen Observer Critical-hit chance is increased by 5% while health is over 90%.
Infusion of Shadow Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths you. – You can now perma cnd-backstab chain and never lose that 10% damage bonus from 6+ ini
Kleptomaniac Stealing gives you 3 initiative.
Flanking Strikes Increases damage by 5% when attacking a foe from behind or the side.
Combo Critical Chance Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.

A general 20-25-0-0-15 warrior will have 32% damage bonus + might and vuln on crits. Axe mace will have 27% damage bonus and10% crit damage bonus. Vuln on crits but no might. They also only have 200 power, 250 prec, and 15% crit damage from traits.

A general dps Thief will have 50% damage bonus and a high ini pool OR 45% and never have initiative sustain problems. They both have situational +12% passive crit chance (possible 17% if you’re using pistol whip and trait). 250 power, 300 prec, and 30% crit damage from traits.

tldr~ the long and short basically is that both classes have a lot of ways to get high coefficients and they both do a kittenton of dps. The warrior does more in terms of vuln and might but thief can take advantage better if they have all the same boons/conditions.

Some of the traits you listed about the Warrior are mutually exclusive, like Dual Wielding, Axe Mastery and Slashing Power.

sorrow.2364:

Some of the traits you listed about the Warrior are mutually exclusive, like Dual Wielding, Axe Mastery and Slashing Power.

And if you go through my math you’ll see that I excluded them from the final numbers at the end. That’s why there’s 2 different final numbers for axe/mace and gs builds.

Thieves are the worst class. They need a serious buff. Come on, ANET! Let our class carry us more!

randomfightfan.4091:

And if you go through my math you’ll see that I excluded them from the final numbers at the end. That’s why there’s 2 different final numbers for axe/mace and gs builds.

Sorry about that.