Guild Wars 2

I feel like ppl are talking about me. I play a thief class with the mentality of a warrior.

Fiorrello.8126:

thieves don’t really have a place, and i would argue that they don’t belong in this game.

They used to have a place in all things PVP. But since this is a casual game that attracts…casual gamers (go figure), it was destroyed by gratuitous nerfs.
A casual gamer is a 40 year old guy who works 9 to 5 and wants to roflestomp everything with his 1 hit win class, as a way of achieving gratification. I`m not saying he shouldn`t rather he shouldn`t that easily. The other casual gamer is the youngster that is not fully mentally developed and gets frustrated rather by his lack of understanding of the game than “class imbalance”.
Both types of casual gamers littered the forums with “requests” to “balance” the thief. And since devs have poor judgement concerning how to satisfy their player base… Result: bad profession to pve with, even worse profession to pvp.

sorrow.2364:

Avoiding damage doesn’t necessarily means dodging.
Guess what, thieves can do damage while evading!
It is called Pistol Whip, Flanking Strike and CnD+Backstab chain (since Stealth is almost invulnerability in PvE).
Oh, they can also do damage while blinding your melee enemy with Black Powder!

So you think no Thief charge to monsters screaming “I’M THE UBAH WAARRIAHHH!!!! UUURGHH!!!!”? Yeah, you’re probably right.
They usually scream “’I’M THE UBAH THIEEEEF!!!! UUURGHH!!!!” when they are charging mindlessly to monsters.

Pistol Whip = Nerfed to same damage (if not less) than autoattack, eats initiative. Besides, if you main-hand sword, you already lost the DPS race against a warrior.

Flanking strike = The evade part is movement, so you are not attacking… Exactly the same as if you dodged. Lacernous Strike hits for about the same as the #3 autoattack, so again, you lose DPS against a sustained auto-attack chain. Besides, if you main-hand sword, you already lost the DPS race against a warrior.

CnD & BS = Ha ha, Quite on the contrary. Stealth is anything but invulnerability in PvE. To begin with, to sustain the C&D+BS chain you are in stealth like… 0.5 seconds, since you want to BS as soon as possible to keep high DPS. If you remain in stealth, the mob won’t target you, true, but surprise!! surprise!! you won’t do any damage as long as you stay on stealth. Furthermore, unlike players, mobs are smarter and keep doing their attack routine, regardless of seeing you or not, and you will eat all their AoE attacks, and attacks aimed to teammates if you are close, stealthed or not. In PvE, and specially in dungeons, Stealth is only an anti-aggro tool at the cost of ZERO DPS.

Since many people have difficulties to grasp the concept, here is a quick, easy to figure chart:

STEALTH —-———— MOBS don’t do damage —- YOU DON’T do damage
INVULNERABILTY—— MOBS don’t do damage —- YOU DO damage

’A casual gamer is a 40 year old guy who works 9 to 5 and wants to roflestomp everything with his 1 hit win class, as a way of achieving gratification. I`m not saying he shouldn`t rather he shouldn`t that easily. ’

Oh man, how I larfed at that. What monster will I turn into at forty! Oogling at ROLF stomping classes – ye gawds! My life will mean nothing..but I will yes I WLL rolfstomp those elegant younger non-casual gamers..I hate my life, my boss, my future is gone….but…they will pay!

thanks man that gave me a right giggle on a Tuesday morning.

Kyrion.2749:

sorrow.2364:

Avoiding damage doesn’t necessarily means dodging.
Guess what, thieves can do damage while evading!
It is called Pistol Whip, Flanking Strike and CnD+Backstab chain (since Stealth is almost invulnerability in PvE).
Oh, they can also do damage while blinding your melee enemy with Black Powder!

So you think no Thief charge to monsters screaming “I’M THE UBAH WAARRIAHHH!!!! UUURGHH!!!!”? Yeah, you’re probably right.
They usually scream “’I’M THE UBAH THIEEEEF!!!! UUURGHH!!!!” when they are charging mindlessly to monsters.

Pistol Whip = Nerfed to same damage (if not less) than autoattack, eats initiative. Besides, if you main-hand sword, you already lost the DPS race against a warrior.

Flanking strike = The evade part is movement, so you are not attacking… Exactly the same as if you dodged. Lacernous Strike hits for about the same as the #3 autoattack, so again, you lose DPS against a sustained auto-attack chain. Besides, if you main-hand sword, you already lost the DPS race against a warrior.

CnD & BS = Ha ha, Quite on the contrary. Stealth is anything but invulnerability in PvE. To begin with, to sustain the C&D+BS chain you are in stealth like… 0.5 seconds, since you want to BS as soon as possible to keep high DPS. If you remain in stealth, the mob won’t target you, true, but surprise!! surprise!! you won’t do any damage as long as you stay on stealth. Furthermore, unlike players, mobs are smarter and keep doing their attack routine, regardless of seeing you or not, and you will eat all their AoE attacks, and attacks aimed to teammates if you are close, stealthed or not. In PvE, and specially in dungeons, Stealth is only an anti-aggro tool at the cost of ZERO DPS.

Since many people have difficulties to grasp the concept, here is a quick, easy to figure chart:

STEALTH —-———— MOBS don’t do damage —- YOU DON’T do damage
INVULNERABILTY—— MOBS don’t do damage —- YOU DO damage

I said ALMOST INVLUNERABILITY.
Unless you stand in the AoE of mobs, they won’t attack you. Simple and easy. They aren’t human who knows you still are there and keep using their skills in the air.
You just need to put those 10 leftover traitpoints into Shadow Arts and you can easily chain CnD+Backstab every 3 second for massive damage, excluding the autoattack.

Also, please, avoid misinformation.
- Pistol Whip deals considerable more DPS compared to autoattack.
- If you have Sword mainhand, you deal more DPS compared to Greatsword (do the math and find it by yourself)

Yeah please, do the math and do yourself a favor.

Oh! and I forgot ‘Black Powder’ which is = ‘Stand motionless just auto-shooting (with the all-known famous and powerful pistol autoattack) because you don’t have initiative for anything else’. And of course, you will still eat those AoEs and ranged attacks.

PD: The part about ‘powerful pistol auto-attack’ was irony…. just in case.

Kyrion.2749:

Yeah please, do the math and do yourself a favor.

Oh! and I forgot ‘Black Powder’ which is = ‘Stand motionless just auto-shooting (with the all-known famous and powerful pistol autoattack) because you don’t have initiative for anything else’. And of course, you will still eat those AoEs and ranged attacks.

PD: The part about ‘powerful pistol auto-attack’ was irony…. just in case.

There is quite a long post about math, you should check it out.

Who said you should use Black Powder with pistol mainhand?

Elmuerto.9840:

’A casual gamer is a 40 year old guy who works 9 to 5 and wants to roflestomp everything with his 1 hit win class, as a way of achieving gratification. I`m not saying he shouldn`t rather he shouldn`t that easily. ’

Oh man, how I larfed at that. What monster will I turn into at forty! Oogling at ROLF stomping classes – ye gawds! My life will mean nothing..but I will yes I WLL rolfstomp those elegant younger non-casual gamers..I hate my life, my boss, my future is gone….but…they will pay!

thanks man that gave me a right giggle on a Tuesday morning.

Glad i provided some entertainment Trust me when i say these people REALLY exist. A friend of mine in another game won a duel against that said 40ish player with an underdog class only to get screamed at through TS. And another thing: people crying nerf on thieves, and i`m not talking about the drooling halfwits in there teens, but the people that eloquently lie through their teeth ARE grown-kitten men with children. Maybe not in their 40s but still grown-kitten men. I mean instead of upsetting profession balance don`t they have a kitchen sink or a roof to fix?

sorrow.2364:

Kyrion.2749:

Yeah please, do the math and do yourself a favor.

Oh! and I forgot ‘Black Powder’ which is = ‘Stand motionless just auto-shooting (with the all-known famous and powerful pistol autoattack) because you don’t have initiative for anything else’. And of course, you will still eat those AoEs and ranged attacks.

PD: The part about ‘powerful pistol auto-attack’ was irony…. just in case.

There is quite a long post about math, you should check it out.

Who said you should use Black Powder with pistol mainhand?

I assumed, since we were talking about DPS comparisons between WAR and THF. D/P is not usually seen in dungeons, because:
- The stealth chain is more expensive than D/D or S/D and takes a bit longer to perform, thus, less backstabs per minute = less DPS.
- Having to use Heartseeker to stealth in order to get your backstabs is contraproducent DPS-wise on bosses at +25% life.
- The dual skill is not used much, since monsters don’t kite you… they come to you!!!, thus, making it very situational at best.
- And of course, the blind field is useless on bosses, albeit somehow decent vs trash mobs. Anyways, if you’re spamming Black Powder, you’ll scarcely have initative to do anything else, including the needed heartseekers for stealth.

P/P is more common in dungeons than D/P because you have ‘Unload’, which is not spectacular to begin with, but at least is ranged and safer for the thief.

something else to point out about high lvl pve. there are many bosses that will one-shot berserker warriors (or even tanky guardians). being on a class that forces you to get good at dodging, and then having access to more dodge/evade than others makes you more survivable in these situations, not less…being better at kiting also makes you more survivable in many situations. sure, there are other times where you get cc’d which makes it very hard, or fighting in jumping puzzles, where dodge is not an option; but we have tools to deal with that too. there are also times when a guardian or mesmer is definitely the right profession for a job..that’s how things should be.

Its the mokittenn class I can tell u that

Kyrion.2749:

I assumed, since we were talking about DPS comparisons between WAR and THF. D/P is not usually seen in dungeons, because:
- The stealth chain is more expensive than D/D or S/D and takes a bit longer to perform, thus, less backstabs per minute = less DPS.
- Having to use Heartseeker to stealth in order to get your backstabs is contraproducent DPS-wise on bosses at +25% life.
- The dual skill is not used much, since monsters don’t kite you… they come to you!!!, thus, making it very situational at best.
- And of course, the blind field is useless on bosses, albeit somehow decent vs trash mobs. Anyways, if you’re spamming Black Powder, you’ll scarcely have initative to do anything else, including the needed heartseekers for stealth.

P/P is more common in dungeons than D/P because you have ‘Unload’, which is not spectacular to begin with, but at least is ranged and safer for the thief.

Actually, the most common combination in dungeon is S/P.
Most of the PvE thief video I’ve seen are people running that set.

DanH.5879:

that is the question i like for a-net to answer
WHERE we fit in a team ?!? what is our job ?
just dodging around 1 more time than the other classes if we spec for it ?? is this all the thief is best at ?
i am not talking about wvw…

Cleaning up. That is was a thief is best at. Please tell me a class that is better at sticking to a target than Thief (I’d love a good laugh).

In a PvP setting, NO ONE will get away from a Thief. You know that person who just got dropped to 10% life and is about to get away? Kill him.

You know that teammate who just got dropped? Refuge and pick him up.

You know that straggler running to his teammates for help? Stone him with Basalisk Vemon and watch him get zerged (yes, zergs exists in tPvP).

The problem with players in GW2 (not just thieves, but them too) is that everyone wants it all. Sure, Warriors may do more damage on paper to thieves, but the crap they need to blow just to SETUP that damage is insane to how easy it is for Thieves to burst AND be able to escape.

In a PVP setting, Thieves are pure harassment in a team fight. The class is NOT called assassin, so get that mindset out of your head. Literally NO OTHER class in the game has means of stomping a downed player in the middle of an enemy zerg (Shadowsterp-Stomp). Please don’t cry fowl because you can’t 1v1 in a team oriented game, and PLEASE don’t say we serve no purpose just because you can’t wrap our mind around traiting for team purposes.

As for PvE, no other class can turn the tides of a boss fight from a near wipe to a full recovery. I have single handedly rezzed 4 COMPLETELY dead players in a boss fight while still holding aggro to prevent a reset. I’m not saying it is easy, but it is absolutely doable with a little patience and attention to detail (something that should come naturally to anyone looking to roll a “Thief”).

McFribble.2349:

Please don’t cry fowl because you can’t 1v1 in a team oriented game

Your post is contradictory. Since it`s a 1v1 setting, hence the group situation is taken out, if you can`t 1 v 1 someone that means the class is broken beyond repair. I don`t want to mop up. I don`t want to run away with my tail between my legs and i don`t want to skulk like a rat till everyone leaves a point so i can take it. I wanted the instagib build. I literally begged to revert the changes so i can 1 v 1 some lonely player that runs to his zerg instead of hugging some power house that can 1v1 1v2 1v3 1 v x with or /w my help (cough mesmer, necro, ele).
It`s quite the paradox – when the instagib build was viable, taking 1 lonely player once in a while, mouth breathers cried that it`s unfair even though in a group match taking 1 player out while blowing every skill has little to none overall impact… Guess if i want the “assassin” archetype that hits hard and fast and then retreats to regen i have to play a…warrior. To add insult to injury a warrior has more sturdiness making him the cannon w/e the glass part.

Stardrift.7360:

McFribble.2349:

Please don’t cry fowl because you can’t 1v1 in a team oriented game

Your post is contradictory. Since it`s a 1v1 setting, hence the group situation is taken out, if you can`t 1 v 1 someone that means the class is broken beyond repair. I don`t want to mop up. I don`t want to run away with my tail between my legs and i don`t want to skulk like a rat till everyone leaves a point so i can take it.

Your post is completely contradictory to what a Thief is SUPPOSED to do. Sorry it took you 80 levels to find out the class isn’t the merry-sue character you wanted it to be. Your choice of class based on your wants makes about as much sense as someone choosing an Elementalist without intent to cast spells. You only have yourself to blame.

As far as the 1v1 setting is concerned, you are only in a 1v1 setting if you put yourself there. For a team-oriented game, I find 1v1 balances laughable at best, especially when most of the classes in the game don’t even have a viable 1v1 build, let alone a GOOD one. But if that is your thing, you have the option to do so. Just don’t be surprised when you are miraculously useless in a team fight and cause your teammates to get kitten y with thieves because the majority trait for themselves and not for the team.

Stardrift.7360:

McFribble.2349:

Please don’t cry fowl because you can’t 1v1 in a team oriented game

Your post is contradictory. Since it`s a 1v1 setting, hence the group situation is taken out, if you can`t 1 v 1 someone that means the class is broken beyond repair. I don`t want to mop up. I don`t want to run away with my tail between my legs and i don`t want to skulk like a rat till everyone leaves a point so i can take it. I wanted the instagib build. I literally begged to revert the changes so i can 1 v 1 some lonely player that runs to his zerg instead of hugging some power house that can 1v1 1v2 1v3 1 v x with or /w my help (cough mesmer, necro, ele).
It`s quite the paradox – when the instagib build was viable, taking 1 lonely player once in a while, mouth breathers cried that it`s unfair even though in a group match taking 1 player out while blowing every skill has little to none overall impact… Guess if i want the “assassin” archetype that hits hard and fast and then retreats to regen i have to play a…warrior. To add insult to injury a warrior has more sturdiness making him the cannon w/e the glass part.

Oh my god, how can you be so horrible and wrong in everything.

First of all, thief is the perfect predator in tPvP and excels in taking out single targets (instagib is still doable on glassy targets btw). Just run 25/30/0/0/15 d/p or 20/30/0/20/0 s/d for example and you’re good to go. Stop pretending that the “viable” basilisk+cnd+steal+backstab required anything more complex than a “mouthbreather” could do and if you can’t adapt to a different playstyle then maybe you overestimated your “skillz” a bit.

Second, warrior is the worst profession in tPvP currently. Are you talking about this 3 second regen as that excellent sustain? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

Learn your role in tPvP and you’ll have no problems playing with a thief. Unless you’re talking about pro wubwub ganking or hotjoin heroing. You can run absolutely whatever there.

@psy, the problem with thief in tpvp isn’t really anything wrong with thief, it’s with every other class. Every other class goes bunker so they can sit on a point near indefinitely and out tank/heal any incoming damage. We just don’t have what it takes to deal with the stupid amounts of sustain other classes have when the game mode is all about sitting on one spot and never leaving. Maybe if Anet did the smart thing and made more than 1 type of pvp mode then thief would be fine in tourneys. Right now, we’re sub-par.

In short, we can’t push people off to neut/cap, can’t kill all the living tanks fast enough to make a diff, we get pushed off points easy (the trolly perma dodge build is decent for this but it’s soo boring to use), and all our class strengths are completely nullified in this current game mode (mobility and stealth are both useless and somewhat punished).

Grab a buddy and those bunkers drop pretty fast.
But seriously taking down a good bunker should be a group effort.
You’re not supposed to go 1v1 against sustain specs, you won’t win or you just waste a lot of time to bring one down. Main point is to outnumber, burst, kill and use that mobility advantage to roam to another point.

Ele is an excellent roaming buddy for a thief. Both have really good mobility and can keep focus off from eachother while taking advantage of eachothers combofields.

Another role for you as a roamer is to support points where fights are already ongoing, you’re not the iniator, you’re the finisher and the one who bursts a target down when he is getting low, backs off to another point or denies rezzing with poison+clusterbomb pressure. As an advantage you require the least amount of setup to deliver your burst compared to a mesmer or an ele for example.

Some thief gameplay style:

• A far assault ele/similar is harassing your homebunker, you move in unseen, burst him down 2v1 or just force him to retreat, make him waste his time recovering and you can move on in the meantime.
• Some GC roamer is harassing your bunker/buddy in midfight, deliver a coordinated burst+CC with ele+mesmer for example, and this will kill him in a few seconds. Your main advantage is the ability to keep insanely good on a target.
• Your team is focusing midbunker and trying to make him pop his cooldowns, you sit back on the ledge putting poison to reduce healing and clusterbombing+autoattacking to pressure him. When an opening comes and he just popped his big cooldown or if the bunker gets moad, you swap to melee and deliver your burst, killing the bunker in an instant.
• Rez denial in teamfights through poisonfield and closerange clusterbombing.

There are specific roles the thief is not so good at as other professions, such as far assault/home bunker (unicorn spec is subpar imo). But thief is still an excellent roamer choice and insanely good on maps such as khylo/forest for example.

As McFribble said, it’s a team game, so lose the solo mentality. Of course you have more freedom in your decisions as a roamer, but overall it’s still a team effort to win a game.

I don’t know, I’ve managed to survive and out-tank and out-passive heal pretty much everything on my “evade bunker” d/d setup.

We sort of build for roles in my group though, so our DPS is slower but we generally complete everything with minimal risk to anyone. My role is the tank, and I tank while evading and constantly applying 110-130 damage bleeds (which nobody else in the group does)

I don’t think thief is the “worst” class, but I don’t think it has as big of a toolbox as other classes do. When you build a thief you’re really putting all of your eggs in one basket to do what it does. Thieves can build control, tank, and DPS, but when you’re in one role you’re not just mediocre at the other two roles like most other classes, you’re actually horrible at it.

Psybunny.8906:

Stardrift.7360:

McFribble.2349:

Please don’t cry fowl because you can’t 1v1 in a team oriented game

Your post is contradictory. Since it`s a 1v1 setting, hence the group situation is taken out, if you can`t 1 v 1 someone that means the class is broken beyond repair. I don`t want to mop up. I don`t want to run away with my tail between my legs and i don`t want to skulk like a rat till everyone leaves a point so i can take it. I wanted the instagib build. I literally begged to revert the changes so i can 1 v 1 some lonely player that runs to his zerg instead of hugging some power house that can 1v1 1v2 1v3 1 v x with or /w my help (cough mesmer, necro, ele).
It`s quite the paradox – when the instagib build was viable, taking 1 lonely player once in a while, mouth breathers cried that it`s unfair even though in a group match taking 1 player out while blowing every skill has little to none overall impact… Guess if i want the “assassin” archetype that hits hard and fast and then retreats to regen i have to play a…warrior. To add insult to injury a warrior has more sturdiness making him the cannon w/e the glass part.

Oh my god, how can you be so horrible and wrong in everything.

First of all, thief is the perfect predator in tPvP and excels in taking out single targets (instagib is still doable on glassy targets btw). Just run 25/30/0/0/15 d/p or 20/30/0/20/0 s/d for example and you’re good to go. Stop pretending that the “viable” basilisk+cnd+steal+backstab required anything more complex than a “mouthbreather” could do and if you can’t adapt to a different playstyle then maybe you overestimated your “skillz” a bit.

Second, warrior is the worst profession in tPvP currently. Are you talking about this 3 second regen as that excellent sustain? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

Learn your role in tPvP and you’ll have no problems playing with a thief. Unless you’re talking about pro wubwub ganking or hotjoin heroing. You can run absolutely whatever there.

Hurr durr. The instagib build was pretty hard to pull off vs a tanky profession/build. I`ve seen better thieves than me fail at it back when 2222 spamming + 5k mug crits were still there. You obviously are full of it so for the sake of civility, tone down your blatant lies. The build u posted was the meta like what? 4 months ago? Go back to your mesmer, you are obviously talking out of kitten. You know how i can smell a “mouthbreather”? A person who builds his arguments around verbal cliches (perfect predator huehuehue). Your post had no math in it, no examples just fake kitten platitudes. Fact: a warrior can still do god knows what dmg in a single skill hit while thieves USED to do it with basilisk-cnd-mug-bs-AND double/triple heartseekers. I`d say l2p noob but it`s obvious to anybody you don`t play a thief, you`re just a forum hero.

@Stardrift:
99% of D/P thieves play 25/30/0/0/15 in tournas. Go backstab aegis/ranger evade/mistform more, since it’s obvious you fail at “instagibbing”. It’s not my problem you don’t know the basics of when or who to burst.

I main a warrior, but I’ve pretty much ONLY played thief in pvp for the past 3 months, since warr is still not viable. Before that I mostly played bunkerguard and trap/BM ranger for a bit when it started getting popular. Due to playing profession that is handicapped in tPvP (warrior), I actually did something unheard of. I played other professions I had a hard time beating, familiarized myself with it and used it to outplay them. I fell back to those previously listed professions though, since against equal skill level opponents the lack of profession balance starts holding you and the team down.

It’s funny that you brought out mesmer, since that’s the profession I have the least amount of experience on. My knowledge I gained when I learned how to play against that profession by actively playing it for a while is no indication that I’m somehow related to that profession (you probably took that from one of my recent posts where I gave advice to a newcomer).

I previously played the popular 25/30/0/0/15 D/P backstab spec, but now I’m playing S/D&Sbow with evasion/boonrip focus. If you need help on your thief gameplay, feel free to whisper me.
This is the build I’m currently using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmSO3eS6E/5Ex2jeuTeqpgmysTBXtKA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKYZx0CA

My previous spec pre quickness nerf:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmCP3eS6E/5Ex2jeqTe6fgs6MoZLB-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKYZxkCA
(played for a while with assassins signet after that though)

Stardrift.7360:

Fiorrello.8126:

thieves don’t really have a place, and i would argue that they don’t belong in this game.

They used to have a place in all things PVP. But since this is a casual game that attracts…casual gamers (go figure), it was destroyed by gratuitous nerfs.
A casual gamer is a 40 year old guy who works 9 to 5 and wants to roflestomp everything with his 1 hit win class, as a way of achieving gratification. I`m not saying he shouldn`t rather he shouldn`t that easily. The other casual gamer is the youngster that is not fully mentally developed and gets frustrated rather by his lack of understanding of the game than “class imbalance”.
Both types of casual gamers littered the forums with “requests” to “balance” the thief. And since devs have poor judgement concerning how to satisfy their player base… Result: bad profession to pve with, even worse profession to pvp.

And what is a hardcore player? Someone who bags groceries and puts them into the casual player’s BMW when he’s not trying to justify his existence through a game? Stereotypical comments like these are not well taken and are not constructive.

Moonrabbit.1543:

And what is a hardcore player? Someone who bags groceries and puts them into the casual player’s BMW when he’s not trying to justify his existence through a game? Stereotypical comments like these are not well taken and are not constructive.

Yet you just used one. Oh the irony… As for “hardcore” gamers, your words not mine, are those that try to grasp the finer aspects of a game w/e badmouthing a profession on the forums. I probably hit too close to home in your case didn`t i? Are you in your 40s? Then good health to you and enjoy your time in your favorite MMO. But don`t expect changes to be made that benefit you and hurt countless others just because you feel entitled since you ahem “get your groceries bagged in your bmw”. I know people in their 40s late 30s that are so vile and entitled via electronic mediated entertainment that makes me shudder to think someone with that much life accomplishments can be that repulsive. In a MMO you don`t get a saying in who should get what just because you feel you deserve more. Oh and before you reply saying “that`s exactly what you`re doing” keep in mind that changes were already done to the thief by requests from other players. I just want some of them reverted…

Psybunny.8906:

@Stardrift:
99% of D/P thieves play 25/30/0/0/15 in tournas. Go backstab aegis/ranger evade/mistform more, since it’s obvious you fail at “instagibbing”. It’s not my problem you don’t know the basics of when or who to burst.

Oh is THAT was i was doing…so silly of me.

I previously played the popular 25/30/0/0/15 D/P backstab spec, but now I’m playing S/D&Sbow with evasion/boonrip focus. If you need help on your thief gameplay, feel free to whisper me.
This is the build I’m currently using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmSO3eS6E/5Ex2jeuTeqpgmysTBXtKA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKYZx0CA

No thanks. Based on your cookie cutter build, ur the guy with the mop in spvp – hugging the necro/guardian while spamming LS when some poor straggler is down 50%. A mesmer will make short work of you while with a necro u will start good then bite it in the long run. Killed some of your kind, got killed also. I guess if i`m bad then u are just as much. Seeing how zergy is a spvp i`m never w/o 30 points in SA. At least i try to down someone alone. So maybe you should pm me for some tips. Beating to death metas that aren`t even that good only accomplishes the agenda of the nerf enthusiasts and the devs that support them: strip everything good and replace it with something shiny and new that maintains the illusion of balance.
TL;DR – first guy accused me of hating on elderly casual players and the second just copy/paste a build every bad thief runs.

Stardrift.7360:

A casual gamer is a 40 year old guy who works 9 to 5 and wants to roflestomp everything with his 1 hit win class, as a way of achieving gratification. I`m not saying he shouldn`t rather he shouldn`t that easily.

I’m 39, I work 9 to 5, and I play a P/D carrion thief.

/e drops mic

If you really think Thief is the Worst class in Gw 2 , try to reroll lets say a Necro or Engi.

Uruz Six.6594:

Stardrift.7360:

A casual gamer is a 40 year old guy who works 9 to 5 and wants to roflestomp everything with his 1 hit win class, as a way of achieving gratification. I`m not saying he shouldn`t rather he shouldn`t that easily.

I’m 39, I work 9 to 5, and I play a P/D carrion thief.

/e drops mic

You sir deserve my respect. Playing an underpowered profession not expecting everything to be handed on a silver platter to u. Now if a12 year youngster, who runs a glass cannon build successfully, would only come and demolish the second part of my theorem

The worst class is the one I don’t enjoy playing. I still have fun playing my Thief – I don’t have fun playing much else – ergo, Thief is the best class. Your mileage may vary.

Stardrift.7360:

Moonrabbit.1543:

And what is a hardcore player? Someone who bags groceries and puts them into the casual player’s BMW when he’s not trying to justify his existence through a game? Stereotypical comments like these are not well taken and are not constructive.

Yet you just used one. Oh the irony… As for “hardcore” gamers, your words not mine, are those that try to grasp the finer aspects of a game w/e badmouthing a profession on the forums. I probably hit too close to home in your case didn`t i? Are you in your 40s? Then good health to you and enjoy your time in your favorite MMO. But don`t expect changes to be made that benefit you and hurt countless others just because you feel entitled since you ahem “get your groceries bagged in your bmw”. I know people in their 40s late 30s that are so vile and entitled via electronic mediated entertainment that makes me shudder to think someone with that much life accomplishments can be that repulsive. In a MMO you don`t get a saying in who should get what just because you feel you deserve more. Oh and before you reply saying “that`s exactly what you`re doing” keep in mind that changes were already done to the thief by requests from other players. I just want some of them reverted…

Psybunny.8906:

@Stardrift:
99% of D/P thieves play 25/30/0/0/15 in tournas. Go backstab aegis/ranger evade/mistform more, since it’s obvious you fail at “instagibbing”. It’s not my problem you don’t know the basics of when or who to burst.

Oh is THAT was i was doing…so silly of me.

I previously played the popular 25/30/0/0/15 D/P backstab spec, but now I’m playing S/D&Sbow with evasion/boonrip focus. If you need help on your thief gameplay, feel free to whisper me.
This is the build I’m currently using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmSO3eS6E/5Ex2jeuTeqpgmysTBXtKA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKYZx0CA

No thanks. Based on your cookie cutter build, ur the guy with the mop in spvp – hugging the necro/guardian while spamming LS when some poor straggler is down 50%. A mesmer will make short work of you while with a necro u will start good then bite it in the long run. Killed some of your kind, got killed also. I guess if i`m bad then u are just as much. Seeing how zergy is a spvp i`m never w/o 30 points in SA. At least i try to down someone alone. So maybe you should pm me for some tips. Beating to death metas that aren`t even that good only accomplishes the agenda of the nerf enthusiasts and the devs that support them: strip everything good and replace it with something shiny and new that maintains the illusion of balance.
TL;DR – first guy accused me of hating on elderly casual players and the second just copy/paste a build every bad thief runs.

Oh my bad, I thought you were actually having a tPvP conversation. Nevermind, carry on with your “zergy” Hotjoin heroing.

A tip to fighting mesmers, since you seem to badly need it (considering your other QQ threads about their superior mobility compared to thieves and those unlimited invulnas dude!). Use your sbow to clusterbomb clones, dodge ileap, when they shatter dodge towards it and be cautious when a mesmer comes melee range.
Necro is one of the easiest fights actually, but again DS is so OP and scary, right?
You’ll do better if you’d learn the difference between marks and wells.
Most of your overall attitude can easily be improved if you actually played other professions.

I don’t hug the guardian or bunkerchars, I hug the lovely valk S/D ele when roaming and I nourish myself on “permastealth” thieves who have stolen http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain somehow.

So what if thief cant do most DPS? So what if thief cant support better than guardian?
At least the playstyle is different from others. And that playstyle is what I enjoy the most.
So its clearly the best class for me and other people who enjoy it.
Thiefs are really mobile, thiefs are imo the best “ressers” because of the shadow refuge.
And you know dagger/dagger combo looks so cool
I just dont get the hate… Dont play it if it doesnt fit you. No one says you HAVE to play all the classes.

ZackCC.3965:

So what if thief cant do most DPS? So what if thief cant support better than guardian?
At least the playstyle is different from others. And that playstyle is what I enjoy the most.
So its clearly the best class for me and other people who enjoy it.
Thiefs are really mobile, thiefs are imo the best “ressers” because of the shadow refuge.
And you know dagger/dagger combo looks so cool
I just dont get the hate… Dont play it if it doesnt fit you. No one says you HAVE to play all the classes.

Why would you say that? There are people who started out with thief since BETA, people who fell in love with their thief, but have only come to see it get nerfed over and over again, “Key” skills are being nerfed which are only making the class more and more useless. Lets be honest here with the recent nerf of shadow return there is almost no reason to run S/P. So a few buffs would be nice instead of constant nerfs!

Psybunny.8906:

@Stardrift:
99% of D/P thieves play 25/30/0/0/15 in tournas. Go backstab aegis/ranger evade/mistform more, since it’s obvious you fail at “instagibbing”. It’s not my problem you don’t know the basics of when or who to burst.

I main a warrior, but I’ve pretty much ONLY played thief in pvp for the past 3 months, since warr is still not viable. Before that I mostly played bunkerguard and trap/BM ranger for a bit when it started getting popular. Due to playing profession that is handicapped in tPvP (warrior), I actually did something unheard of. I played other professions I had a hard time beating, familiarized myself with it and used it to outplay them. I fell back to those previously listed professions though, since against equal skill level opponents the lack of profession balance starts holding you and the team down.

It’s funny that you brought out mesmer, since that’s the profession I have the least amount of experience on. My knowledge I gained when I learned how to play against that profession by actively playing it for a while is no indication that I’m somehow related to that profession (you probably took that from one of my recent posts where I gave advice to a newcomer).

I previously played the popular 25/30/0/0/15 D/P backstab spec, but now I’m playing S/D&Sbow with evasion/boonrip focus. If you need help on your thief gameplay, feel free to whisper me.
This is the build I’m currently using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmSO3eS6E/5Ex2jeuTeqpgmysTBXtKA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKYZx0CA

My previous spec pre quickness nerf:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmCP3eS6E/5Ex2jeqTe6fgs6MoZLB-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKYZxkCA
(played for a while with assassins signet after that though)

wait wait wait wait…..99% of D/P thieves run 25 30 0 0 15 ???? really wow. tell me what is the “meat and potatoes” of this build? where does the dmg and defense come from? im gonna love this one. :P

Dropper.9176:

If you really think Thief is the Worst class in Gw 2 , try to reroll lets say a Necro or Engi.

i love both these classes much more in PVP WVW….i find myself much much much more usefulll…not as fun per say….but much more usefull AOE galore

You fail at aoeing in wvw on a thief?

swinsk.6410:

Thieves are not meant for PVE. They are good at staying alive in wvw. That’s really about the only niche they have.

They also have good burst in spvp. Got nerfed pretty hard with mug nerf but still they can hit hard in with a single backstab and repeat it fairly quickly.

Ha.

cluster bomb is good when defending a tower….caltrops is great on 1 v x ing …DS is crappy bc it really only is decent in extremely large groups….but its pretty Common knowledge that thieves have crappy AOE in general. necros are the kings right now.

pretty sure engi is the king of aoe necro has some nice aoe support though.

Necro King AOE Conditions
Engi King AOE DPS?Conditions I think ? :P

could go either way i suppose. but the necro is best overall i think bc of fear and aoe ice ….basically the control conditions and dmg . engie doesnt have much control without their supply elite….and nobody runs extra turrets :P

Is there a weapon for necros I’m unaware of that stacks conditions faster and in greater number than engis I’m looking at the necro weapons and skills and I can’t seem to find it?

it depends how you look at it. engineers stack em faster on one target and can stack them decently as AOE …. necros can do decently at 1 target but amazingly at AOE targets… marks….wells ….necro forms :P staff just does em fast for necro. pistols are great for engineer but mostly single targ.

Don’t Forget Epidemic…

omg yeah wooo….epidemic is the best skill in zerging possibly paired with signet of spite!!!!!!!!!….epidemic has no enemy limit….most skills only affect 5 players max…not epidemic…it goes on n on n on n on…..wait…i hate that song :P

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Epidemic
+
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Spite
+
Condi gear + condi length runes + condi legnth traits + rare veggie pizza

then multiply by 5 necros
then add in 8 AOE stuns from mezmere
then add in 8 healing eles
then add in 10 hammer warriors with stab
then add in 10 guardians with staffs/rings
then add in 8 more necros runnign wells to remove boons in AOE style

and you have a win .

we have several guild builds that we run and i wont giv u all the info but pretty much everytime we do a GvG and its 50 v 50 we have won each without even 1 downed player. ill tell u this…. we didnt run thieves actually i think 1 or 2 with venom share but not a needed although very nice to have :P

1 stack of bleeding averages around 110 damage per tick with a average to sub average condi build, ergo 25 stacks does 2750 per. Lets say in a zerg a necro targets a character and adds signet of spite plus adds other bleeds plus other characters bleeds/poisoins/condis and then is capable of spreading these with epidemic. lets play safe and say 15 stacks are spread for 10 seconds to another 6 targets(could be 20-80 depeding on zerg).
That’s 110*15*10*6=99,000 damage !! WWWWOOOOAH dude lol. ok lets say its a tight ball of players like most zergs and he spreads to 20 players……thats a total of 330,000 damage. yeah a thief would have to hit hella hard to keep up with that…even if it only hit 2 players thief would have a hard time keeping up. i wont add in ice burning poison and vulnerability dmg :P thats just nto fair lol

signet of spite and epidemic wtf. that’s not how you do it. I would never encourage people to run that together. I mean that sounds like the ppl who thought warrior’s were op at release because of bc into frenzy and hb lol. And then every decent player negated that spec with one dodge roll lol.

mmm I don’t know what you’re trying to convey. wvw necros run a different setup than what you’re talking about. zerging in wvw is more determined on how many guardians you have everything else is meaningless. Condi removal is greater than condi application for all classes other than engis. Relying on utilities for condi application like what you’re talking about is terrible. There’s been a major shift towards engis over the last 4 months from necros in wvw and spvp.

idk maybe im differently :P i stack up conditions on a pet/clone/summon/ranger then spread them lol…pets cant drop conditions but hey im a noob :P

yes i kn ow signet of spite isnt used much. i like marks wells etc. but ur missing the point. necros are the kings of AOE conditions. they just are :P i never said that SoS was meta but i DO run epidemic. its just too good not to….heck….even if u dont run condi u can still run it. its gr8

but ur missing the point.

truer words have never been spoken

Travlane.5948:

Psybunny.8906:

snip

wait wait wait wait…..99% of D/P thieves run 25 30 0 0 15 ???? really wow. tell me what is the “meat and potatoes” of this build? where does the dmg and defense come from? im gonna love this one. :P

It’s a tPvP spec obviously. It’s pretty much the regular backstab spec that is very similar to D/D. Only difference is that it has much more utility than regular D/D. Main combo is (basilisk) 5-2-steal-1, execution speed is around a second. Dazespam to autoattacks against single players is quite effective finisher aswell, shuts down very slippery targets pretty well. It’s not played like the wubwub “permastealth” build where you stack up invis.

Combo damage comes from:

• Steal gives you fury/might/puts a condition on target (+10% damage)/mug non-crit damage
• 5-10% dagger damage (force on mainhand+dagger training, you can use an “Improvisation” or “Back fighting” as alternative if you don’t want dagger training)
• Can use might for Assassins signet trait if you prefer it. Personally I don’t like it, staff guard can buff you well enough in midfights.
• +20% damage from executioner when target is below 50% (heartseeker from the combo will take target below 50% when you don’t do the burst against a full hp target).
• +10% damage when you’re over 90% hp from Scholar runes (you’ll do your burst from full hp usually)
• As a bonus Sigil of Air on offhand that can proc from mainhand skills

Your main active defense is shadowstep for stunbreak, sbow for mobility, spamming from offpoint and Z-axis abuse and d/p 5-2 for stealth to drop target, but again 5-2 chain plays a much lesser role in tPvP than in hotjoin/wubwub for example. If you fail your combo you retreat and try a clean opener a bit later.

Shadow refuge plays both an offensive and defensive role. Offensive uses are solo or group stealthed bursts. Defensive uses are of course clutch target drop when getting trained (needs very clever placement, since the area will get nuked hard), as a distraction (positive side of the last reason), very good clutch stomp prevention (someone is almost finishing stomp on your guard->drop SR and cancel their stomp attempt->2 people rez and get him up in 1.5 secs).

Since this is not wubwub spec, you’re not on ini regen/stealth focus. 15 points in trickery is to accommodate the quite expensive opener combo. It relies more on positioning/mobility as an active defense rather than stealth chaining. It’s because you don’t have the time to play around as a roamer, target must be dead in less than 10 seconds in sidepoint fights.

It’s obvious by now thief wasn’t designed to be “team oriented”. By Anet rewarding this class with stealth, is the failure for team play. Let me ask you this, “is Stealth a supportive stkill”? Of course not.

Stealth was designed to be solo (roaming). With that said, every thief skills, traits and attributes revolves around Stealth and the only way to make thief a supportive class is to completely remove stealth.

Look here, mesmers have stealth but very limited; non of their traits and attributes are ‘solely devoted’ to stealth.

Than why not the same for thief class?

It’s common sense.

As long Stealth is married to thief class, this class will be by far the worst class for team supportive parties. You an delude yourself that thief ‘got what it takes’ but at the end, the majority of ‘team supportive’ classes will deny you.

Thief Stealth is ’Egoist, Self-Centered and Greedy)

Seriously ask yourself this, “what will a party/team will benefit from this class”?

Absolutely Nothing

-Only to themselves-.

Who would want them in their team/party than.

“Do you catch my drift”

‘End of story’.

Don’t ask for something you don’t actually want. This will be more painful for you than you can imagine. Removal of stealth (which won’t happen anyways) will be substituted with even more evasion due to thief’s low hp/armor. Even now my thief uses stealth only as SR and CnD (only when stomping) and trust me that spec is not nice to fight against. One thing is seeing your target, the other is trying to land anything on him.

If you’re a thief player and actually look for a non-stealth gameplay it’s totally there, though I must agree our support options are limited. Atleast SR is still the best stomp prevention skill beside sanctuary though.

Than if that’s the case Psybunny, there shouldn’t be “Cry Me River” for theif class not being a supportive class and for not being invited by the majority of ‘team supportive’ classes in plays, events, dungeons etc…

As I already had stated, "Thief Stealth is ’Egoist, Self-Centered and Greedy)

Who would want that in a party?

That’s the consequence for being the ’Favorite Child", at the end, no one wants to play with you.

Accept it and move on.