Hi everyone, I know this is a common question but until the recent updates, is thief viable and fun in PvE content? I got my mesmer to 80 but when I started a warrior, I got bored when it reached level 14. I am planning to start a thief but I heard a lot of comments saying it isn’t suitable for PvE but it is good in PvP instead(which is what I don’t do). Can I have a few comments about this? Thanks a lot
It’s so viable that it’s practically a meta class alongside WGM, under one condition and one condition only: you know how to play it properly. It’s far less forgiving than either heavy class.
My advice is to get a good feel for the class and how it plays before taking it to dungeons. The extra time will be worth it.
In dungeons and fractals a thief’s purpose is pure damage. We currently out damage all classes except ele (nobody is sure if ele’s huge damage is intended or about to get punched by the nerf fist). The problem is for every good thief in pve there are literally thousands of bad ones (I’ve met less than ten thieves I’d consider running with again in a full year) so theres a huge stigma of pve thieves are bad. I’ve heard some thieves complaining they get kicked from pugs but its never happened to me (more than likely they were just more bad thieves). So while not having much support (besides shadow refuge) we’re still worth taking.
edit: Forgot to mention eventually you’ll probably end up running with basically static guild groups so you’ll rarely have to deal with the idiocy of the average pugstar.
In dungeons and fractals a thief’s purpose is pure damage. We currently out damage all classes except ele
I’m curious where you got this from? i was always under the impression that warriors were top tier damage above thieves. Also another question i had which would be considered the best weaponset for raw damage?
In dungeons and fractals a thief’s purpose is pure damage. We currently out damage all classes except ele
I’m curious where you got this from? i was always under the impression that warriors were top tier damage above thieves. Also another question i had which would be considered the best weaponset for raw damage?
warriors aren’t top tier anymore
1. LH/FGS ele
2. Thief (single target)
3. War, guard, mes, thief (cleave)
4. Ranger, engi
5. Necro
And I run 25/30//0/0/15 for dungeons and 0/30/20/20/0 for fractals. My default weapon sets are d/d and s/p swapping the s/p to s/d for stealing might from certain bosses and short bow or p/p for stuff that has to be ranged
Hi everyone, I know this is a common question but until the recent updates, is thief viable and fun in PvE content? I got my mesmer to 80 but when I started a warrior, I got bored when it reached level 14. I am planning to start a thief but I heard a lot of comments saying it isn’t suitable for PvE but it is good in PvP instead(which is what I don’t do). Can I have a few comments about this? Thanks a lot
For levelling, best loadout is S/P.
Just use #5 after you aggro 5 mobs and kill them. Rinse and repeat for each fight you encounter.
If it’s a champion, kite it with Shortbow (recommended as your 2nd weapon set for mobility and AoE).
Overall I think it’s a tad boring – I would say, if you got BORED by a Warrior (the best levelling class for PvE in the game) don’t attempt to try a thief, you will not like it.
After levelling my Ele to 80, I played my thief to lv20 and then levelled her for 50 levels through crafting because I was sick of her. However now I happily roam in WvW with my favourite class ever :}
Well I’m quite recent with the Thief but until now I have never had a problem in PvE
I’m using mostly D/P or D/D, and both build from Yishis videos, so WvW builds but that really work in general PvE at the same time (Idk how it works for Fractals yet), I asked Yishis himselft and he also told me that those build could work
I think I’m right now an average Thief player, because PvE it’s easy, but when it comes to WvW roaming (my main source of PvP right now) I tend to do way better with my Guardian than with my Thief
I really hope with pratice I get along with the class otherwise I just lost 1600 gems in it (I have the gemstore gathering tools in my Thief :$)
In dungeons and fractals a thief’s purpose is pure damage. We currently out damage all classes except ele
I’m curious where you got this from? i was always under the impression that warriors were top tier damage above thieves. Also another question i had which would be considered the best weaponset for raw damage?
warriors aren’t top tier anymore
1. LH/FGS ele
2. Thief (single target)
3. War, guard, mes, thief (cleave)
4. Ranger, engi
5. Necro
And I run 25/30//0/0/15 for dungeons and 0/30/20/20/0 for fractals. My default weapon sets are d/d and s/p swapping the s/p to s/d for stealing might from certain bosses and short bow or p/p for stuff that has to be ranged
But warriors give might, fury, banners to the entire group, and is multi target, so they are still the better DPS option for dungeons…
Raw, unbuffed DPS the thief may do more, but in an ideal dungeon scenario, warrior is still much better.
In most PvE content you can go whatever you want and still blow through everything. Stealth is handy for Dredge Fractals and for skipping with stealth (e.g Arah). In general though, we do great damage but bring a lot less utility to the team compared to other classes.
While we might do more damage than some, we don’t “teamplay” perse. So while other classes are close to us in damage, they will also buff their teammates and debuff enemies. So I find the point moot that thieves do great damage because your party will end up doing less damage or taking more damage compared to when you would take a warrior, mesmer or elementalist.
1. LH/FGS ele
2. Thief (single target)
3. War, guard, mes, thief (cleave)
4. Ranger, engi
5. Necro
And I run 25/30//0/0/15 for dungeons and 0/30/20/20/0 for fractals. My default weapon sets are d/d and s/p swapping the s/p to s/d for stealing might from certain bosses and short bow or p/p for stuff that has to be ranged
Necro actually has higher dps than engi and about even with ranger. Problem is necro has nothing worth taking into a dungeon. Mesmer damage is also dependant on phantasms so in many fights mesmer is rock bottom for damage. Other than that your rankings are pretty accurate. Guard is slightly higher sustained dps than warrior though.
I have found that being able to survive in PvE on a thief depends a lot on how experienced you are with the content.
I am pretty good at positioning/dodging, but if Ive never been somewhere before… one attack can down me because I didnt know it was coming.
Like in CoE.. my first few times I didnt know that those wolves did that little lunge that destroys you. After that though, I havent been downed for those fights.
you got some friendly skills for pve:
first and most important :
Signet of malice -is your best friend on group events / orr events, ( aditional 20 points in acrobatics- asssasin reward ) or anywhere you can spam aoe skills
Now considering that you use signet of malice, mostly on map completion, orr events
- solo against group of mobs, i’l reccomand D/D death blossom
dungeons /fractals :
many ppls would consier P/P + unload as best set , since is an safe range high DPS, i’l go a bit intro details and i’l say Shortbow can compete with P/P because of his utility
Most of the times you will have ranger / engineir / elementalist in your party – so you can blast those waterfields to heal all party members for ~ 1400 /blast
Shadow refuge
– is usedl to resurect downed party members
– as an darkfield to leach hp with whirl (death blossom /dagger storm ) or with projectiles (pistol /shortbow)
- to help your party to skip some mobs, that are not necesary for completion (speedrun)
basilik vennom – can stun champions , dungeon bosses
smoke screen, usefull in many dungeons and fractals, in order to block projectiles ( i used it a lot in ravaging assura fractal)
Vennoms, can be viable if you spec on them
In dungeons and fractals a thief’s purpose is pure damage. We currently out damage all classes except ele
I’m curious where you got this from? i was always under the impression that warriors were top tier damage above thieves. Also another question i had which would be considered the best weaponset for raw damage?
warriors aren’t top tier anymore
1. LH/FGS ele
2. Thief (single target)
3. War, guard, mes, thief (cleave)
4. Ranger, engi
5. Necro
And I run 25/30//0/0/15 for dungeons and 0/30/20/20/0 for fractals. My default weapon sets are d/d and s/p swapping the s/p to s/d for stealing might from certain bosses and short bow or p/p for stuff that has to be ranged
But warriors give might, fury, banners to the entire group, and is multi target, so they are still the better DPS option for dungeons…
Raw, unbuffed DPS the thief may do more, but in an ideal dungeon scenario, warrior is still much better.
in terms of dps its ele>guard>thief>warrior
and no, warriors are not the better dps option. warriors are easier to play and are used to give other classes offensive buffs. thats about it.
But warriors give might, fury, banners to the entire group, and is multi target, so they are still the better DPS option for dungeons…
Raw, unbuffed DPS the thief may do more, but in an ideal dungeon scenario, warrior is still much better.
However one or maybe two Warriors can already provide the group with the most important support a Warrior offers; for the “free” spots left you best take the profession with the highest damage and/or different kinds of support.
Actually, a lot of dungeon tactics are based on warriors on guardians and this makes groups full of heavy classes work really well. Stacking around a corner so a pile of mobs run into your dpszone, even if they do severe aoe damage back on the group, is a strategy created by heavy classes for heavy classes.
For open world PvP, thief is the best. With shortbow AoEs (autoattack and clusterbomb) you can tag everything really easy, daggerstorm even better (albeit 180s cooldown). For Scarlet invasions, for example, you can practically tag every single mob that spawns —> you collect loot like mad. If you want to run around by yourself, thanks to stealth you can get pretty much everywhere without even having to kill any mobs. Daggerstorm and clusterbombs mow down groups of mobs faster than anything any other character has I think.
Actually, a lot of dungeon tactics are based on warriors on guardians and this makes groups full of heavy classes work really well. Stacking around a corner so a pile of mobs run into your dpszone, even if they do severe aoe damage back on the group, is a strategy created by heavy classes for heavy classes.
No thats just the pug meta. The top guilds and players use variety of classes because you achieve much faster clears and much better dps that way (requires more coordination and knowledge though). Thief is incredibly useful for CM, TAUP and Arah p1.
Signet of malice + SB poison field, gain ~120 health every pulse for every mob in the field. Perma full health, the more mobs the merrier You don’t even need to trait into this specifically or give up anything and the best thing is the poison fields can be spammed.
Also s/p is pretty OP against mobs, you perma blind them and whip them to death with fairly high damage output.
Personally I run a 0/30/10/0/30 build and I’m loving it.
Mostly I run D/D + SB with it but this traitallocation pretty much lets me use any weaponcombination I want or is best suited for the task at hand(aside of P/D since that’s just clearly condi based).
I don’t have to note the 30 in Critical or the 10 in SA… My deep investment in Trickery however has raised some questions before :P
With the 30 points in Trickery completely dedicated to the improvement of Steal I am capable of many things other builds can do + more.
I have a very low cd steal which further improves other effects of Steal below:
- Every steal stuns so I now have an interupt on short cd without being locked into a weaponset (or elite slot Bas. venom but that’s useless for interupting anyway)
- Every steal steals boons from target and grants it to the team as well as vigor. I also get swiftness and Might from every steal. This gives me the ability to remove dangerous boons from enemy targets and to partywide buff the team with vigor for more dodges! Since I have a low cd on my steal I can dodge a lot thanks to this.
- Every steal replenishes 3 initiative for me. Thanks to the extra low cd this is about equal to the 20point acro trait which also refreshes initiative. With 1 important note: I refresh them when I want to, no points wasted like with the acro trait.
- Bigger initiative bar and being rewarded extra for not wasting all initiative (25 trickery trait). This puts auto attacking with the SB and Sword on a whole different level as those sets actually depending on auto hitting for most of their dmg output. With 10 in SA (return ini on stealth) the D/D backstab spam stays high on Ini as well further improving on its damage output.
I feel this build requires more skill to use efficiently than 25/30 builds or 0/30/20/20’s … However with the notion that the reward is also higher when executed properly.
While Im here… how far below dagger is sword for single target dps? Assuming 25/30/0/15/0…
its a good bit weaker, in max damage gear (sigils of slaying/night + slaying potions) my pistol whips hit between 20-30k depending on might/vulnerability, while my c/d + bs can hit easily hit 40k+ and then theres the 2 auto chains inbetween c/d+bs (edit: if your fighting something you cant land a backstab on the mobs actual back/sides its probably better just to run s/p to have the evades from pistol whip because the damage difference is minimal)
edit: @ the guy above who said guardians outdamage thieves… they cant even come close, i tried last night with same max damage % and several builds and my thief fully unbuffed still outdamaged guardian with full bloodlust stacks and might (edit2:) and that was with s/p for cleave damage, d/d would be even further ahead of anything a guardian can do
Thief’s are very good for PvE.. I run P/P zerker build with scholar runes 20/30/0/0/20. And with the trait Ricochet, your critical hits bounce of mobs and literally just destroy everything in you’re path. The downside is you are very squishy with like 13k HP. Most of the time I can mow down mobs, cast smoke screen block projectiles and blind enemies, cripple them, and kill them before they even get to me. If I am ever in danger. I will use the following skills Hide in shadows to cloak, heal, remove conditions. Shadow refuge if I am near certain death and need the 10 second cloak to retreat. And summon the Thieves guild to assist you if you become overwhelmed vaporizing mobs. I also use A Sigil of generosity to remove conditions and plague the attacker, anda sigil of force for extra damage. When I’m fighting lvl 80 mobs in Orr for example, My unload hits 10k dmg no problem
Thieves are just the embodiment of damage without any defense other than evasive maneuvers , which is why warriors are picked over them and most other classes. Warrior damage can also be high and consistent if you know what to do on a rotation instead of 211111211111211111211112 like a brainless moron. Not to mention warriors can easily obtain and maintain 25 might stacks without needing a banner easily by themselves. In a group, warriors can hit 25 might in the blink of an eye together, take damage, and not have to worry about much resources other than their HP/ cooldowns.
This isn’t even accounting for the fact that thieves do not have that many AoEs in comparison to a warrior GS 1 2 3 and 4 which are all AoE.
Essentially thieves have the damage of warriors on steroids, have none of their defensive attributes, don’t have the same AoE as warriors, and are therefore more single-target oriented where they can deal tremendous damage. The thing is that most dungeons don’t require bursting down a single foe for a vast portion of the dungeon as there are many groups of mobs, which therefore requires AoE. Sure they can do certain bosses really well because of their huge single-target damage and evasive skills but then you realize that bosses are usually 10-20% (50-60% in the case of Arah P4) of the dungeon and the thieves aren’t really that useful for the other 90-80% of the dungeon because they can get popped in the large mobs or simply can’t output enough damage across multiple mobs while providing little utility other than Shadow Refuge (Most parts that Thieves have to Shadow Refuge their group to run through, warrior can just GS Rush → Whirlwind Attack through without worry.)
You don’t even need to trait into this specifically or give up anything and the best thing is the poison fields can be spammed.