Guild Wars 2

I just got my thief to 80 and was pretty excited about going with a dagger/dagger CnD+Backstab build, but I can’t even find the backside of most mobs/bosses with all the particle effects and stacking, thus finding it hard to land backstabs. Is this a case of learn2play or is dagger/dagger not optimal in dungeons? If it’s not optimal, what do most dungeon thieves run? Please tell me it’s not sword/pistol! Thanks.

Unfortunately for you, it’s sword/pistol. Sword mainhand is compulsory for dungeons because daggers don’t Cleave. And between Sword/Pistol and Sword/Dagger, the former has higher damage potential because of Pistol Whip.

S/P is generally used on trash mobs while D/D is usually reserved for bosses. I usually start out with a S/P set with a bloodlust sigil to gain some stacks and exchange them for D/D when a boss comes up. But yes, for non-bosses, S/P is usually optimal due to cleave and blackpowder. There is a reason why a lot of people carry more than two weapon sets with them in a dungeon.

Yep, one of the first lessons you need to learn as a PvE Thief (applies to every class really) is that it’s your duty to carry all weapon-sets with you.

In PvE you play a class, not a weapon set. Instead you use whatever is practical in that given situation.

As as the guys above pointed out, in most dungeons, S/P is just the superior weapon-set.

D/D has one niche, and that’s single-target melee damage. And that’s a pretty small niche in most situations as well as a dangerous one more often than not.

I forgot to mention. Against quite a few bosses, people usually stack to reduce damage taken, share healing and boons more effectively, and force ranged mobs together into melee range where they can take the much higher melee damage from your whole party via Cleave. Some bosses also don’t use instakill moves when stacked – such as AC’s Spider Queen.

Sometimes, when the stack position is right the highest damage skill in the game, the Fiery Greatsword’s Fiery Rush, can be used to do high 5 digit-low 6 digit numbers of damage to enemies.

Backstab builds have the problem that you must backstab to be efficient. But when you stack, the boss’ front faces you. If you destack to backstab, then you miss boons, don’t apply some of your own, and in the worst case scenario can cause the boss to be allowed to use an instakill skill that will wipe your party.

For this cause, make sure you know what bosses you can backstab and what you should not backstab… and if you can’t CnD+backstab it, then revert to S/P for the MUCH greater power multiplier on its autoattack and Pistol Whip.

Even against bosses you can backstab you can’t maintain CnD and backstab indefinitely without running out of Initiative. In those situations use D/D to first burst down its health, then swap to S/P to autoattack until you regain full initiative, switch back to burst it down again, swap back to S/P… etc.

Dungeons:

Trashmobs: Sword / Pistol + Shortbow

• Stay melee for max damage. Spam 3 or 5 for either damage or survivbality. 4 for interrupt (like jungle worms aoe in TA)
• Shortbow for range if hurt or / and might stacking via fire ele and skill 2.

Bossfight / Single enemy: Dagger / Dagger + Pistol / Pistol

• Dagger for max dps, use 5 and then 1 from behind for high damage.
• Use 3 for evasion (needs skill).
• If the enemy gets to 30% stop using 5 and 1. Save your initiative for 25%> HP 2 on dagger for endburst.
• If you get hit hard switch to Pistols and thx to 3 and the healing signet you are full again nearly immediately.

run S/P and D/D, swapping out to shortbow when stealth/ranged swap/blasts are needed.

D/D is actually optimal for single-target fights, if you don’t make use of that damage you’re little more than a subpar warrior/ele with stealth. of course, it’s easier said than done when this game is a visual effects clusterkitten, but you’ll just have to get used to it. thankfully, “from behind” is much wider than “directly behind the mob” for getting flanking bonuses.

also, if you’re low on initiative/can’t maintain backstab rotation on a boss dagger AA is still stronger than sword AA.

Thanks for all the answers. I was already switching weapons quite a lot and mainly using s/p + short bow for trash. I’m mostly disappointed by not being able to backstab so many bosses due to stacking and visual effects.

The only things that are still unclear is whether to use s/p or d/d for bosses that I can’t backstab and there seems to much disagreement as to which one is higher DPS. If the DPS is really close I’d probably use d/d as I like the evade on 3 and the stealth on 5 to get out of sticky situations. Also, when using s/p and not moving a lot (i.e. stacking in a corner) is it better to pistol whip or auto-attack? I’ve seen some people say that the auto-attack actually does more damage.

while AA deals similar damage thing is it doesnt proc you evade so while you auto attacking you are also vulnerable. Most people cope with it using blinding field but blinding wont work against a boss if the so called boss hits everyone at the same time (blind blocks only one hit, and cleave gets trought it) so i guess PW works better against boss then against trash. If they actualy make PW a two move skill likely well Blind then AA then stun and when blind is finished use PW because the weak point of PW is the time interval between the flurry and the stun. Small reminder is that some boss needs to be stacked and that you wont be able to backstab them without ruining the whole fight, at this point you can use dagger AA and risk your life for a damage augmentation (at this point it all comes down to trusting your teamate will pull their share and you wont get hit to much) or use SP PW and likely stay alive while dealing fairly good damage because youl evade about everything.

Despite what the above, dagger/dagger with a backstab focus is your highest source of damage, especially for the fights that actually might provide challenge, bosses. You’ll want to heartseeker more though as they get low on health. Only a few “boss fights” (see: COF path 2 assassins) would you want to ditch the dagger.

However, seriously, keep a sword or shortbow handy for AE fights. Sword actually -does not- outdamage shortbow for AE fights if you know how to work cluster bomb, but they are both good for AE damage regardless. So it pretty much comes down to preference.

what sort of traits, runes, sigils etc, would you guys suggest for a dungeon build with d/d, and sb? finding it pretty difficult to find someonline

how does a full traited p/p compare with s/p for trash? both have spash, right?

Why shouldn’t you be able to backstab a boss? 5, walk trough it, 1. Can’t see the problem.

OP, I know what you mean, seriously, finding the target at all (behind all those effects) is a pain BUT you’ll eventually get used to it and more often than not you even see really fat numbers in the middle of chaos just by pressing (5) with d/d and then auto-attack. If you aren’t attacked by the monster you try to backstab atm, there is a good chance you’re facing his back or -at least – his side. Just make sure to retreat to the shadows whenever you become the target.

Those are the sets I heard to be most effective (and which I’ll carry with me at 80 in all situations):
S/P -> Trashmobs close-up
D/D -> Bosses or single monsters
SB -> Trash mobs from a distance plus nice fields for combos + (5) is awesome to retreat away very fast
P/P -> Bosses you shouldn’t face head-on. (3) is pretty sweet and it also adds some variety – all you need is a second pistol anyways.

For boss fights that involves stacking, you’re better off with S/P so you can evade their attacks while dishing out damage. Any boss fight that doesn’t utilize stacking near a wall, D/D will trump in DPS. There’s quite a few of boss fights that doesn’t require it: CoF p1 boss, TA bosses, etc.