Guild Wars 2

Hello fellow thiefs, I recently decided to pick up a thief and I can say that I really enjoy the gameplay tactics, but I feel as though I have to put 100% more effort into killing something than my ranger does (as weak as they are in the meta right now.) And as much effort that I have to put into it, I wouldn’t have a problem with it if just my effort had clear results, but probably a good 75% of my veteran fights result in death.

I’m currently a level 27 thief, and as I consulted the forums for advice, I’m finding that what looks great on paper does not equate so well to actual gameplay. For example, I’ve read posts that swear by both D/D and S/P. The problems I am having are that while D/D is great dps, it burns through initiative so quickly that I end up running around hopelessly trying to find the back of the monster that I usually take way too much damage… and don’t even get me started if there are two enemies, and i’ll be kittened if one is ranged. So, I read that D/D is good for single target DPS and I figured that was my problem in the open world where it’s not uncommon to aggro two or three enemies at once. So, I shelved the D/D until I come across a vet, and pull out my D/D + cloak + backstab + cloak and find that the veteran is only at 60% health and then I’m out of initiative and, alas, I get killed trying to dodge until my initiative regenerates. So, I hopelessly came back to read about black powder + pistol whip and while it is definitely easier, I still find myself dying way too frequently due to 1. black powder’s blind not encompassing all the monsters that I aggro leaving me vulnerable to damage, 2. running out of initiative after one black powder + pistol whip combo, or 3. getting stunned, dazed, knocked back, conditions, and other sorts of damage that go through blind, and 4. ranged mobs being outside of BP’s AoE. So, in turn, this leaves me with no use for D/D in any situation leaving me feeling like I’m not using my thief to it’s full potential, and also still struggling with S/P because I rely so heavily on black powder, that when I run out of initiative or face a ranged mob, i I essentially lose god mode.

And so here I am. Is there anything I’m missing, or are there any tips or tricks that I may be missing that can drastically help me in these situations? Or is it just something that I’m going to have to stick out and hope that it gets better in the long haul once I can utilize traits to their full ability.

Just takes practice. once you play a while, rangers will be playthings for your thief.

practice more. and thief is the worst low lvl chars. they pay off more at higher lvls.

just to put it in perspective. a thief with 0 poitns attriubuted and any other class with 0 points attributed….a thief will almost always lose. all the dmg and init gain/regen comes from allocation points. our builds/survival/dmg is fully dependent.

Try buncing up a group of mobs, drop caltrops and spam death blossom (d/d), I found that quite easy as i leveled up my thief, when you run out of initiative just kite em around, they will be crippled and bleed to death. Maybe get leave caltrops on dodge trait aswell.

Use all the weapon sets and all tactics for fractals. There is nothing to stop you from using every tool in your armory. Other classes don’t need to do that, so I suspect thieves need to be better played in fractals either with better class knowledge or better dodging than other classes.

Pistol whip + black powder is not a combo. Use one at a time. If you constantly need extra blinds then slot signet of shadows, smokescreen, or blinding powder to give more time for initiative recovery.

I almost exclusively play power based thief builds now but I leveled from about your level to 80 using pistol/dagger conditions. You shouldn’t run out of initiative with d/d, so the fact that you are shows you’re doing it wrong. Put 10 points into shadow arts and reduce the cost of cloak and dagger to 4 initiative. Don’t use any skills other than auto attack, backstab, and cloak and dagger. Feel free to use one heart seeker to finish the opponent but that’s it! Pretty much the same combo for p/d, CnD, sneak attack, auto attack twice, CnD again. Caltrops + p/d does pretty good against big groups and stealth gives you time to reposition and breath.

You have to use auto attacks much more as a thief and learn to rely on those and a dodge. Caltrops early on is huge.

I played all classes bar one to the level of 80 and the thief was my first. The thief was the hardest. The ranger among the easiest. My thief died a lot. The ranger died the least.

Had you started with the thief , the fact it harder might have made things easier.

All of you have offered some really great advice. I will definitely be sure to give caltrops a try and be sure to use CnD and AA more often than DB + HS.

You can use d/d on condition builds and spam db+autoattack but I found when I was leveling that p/d was safer and easier. One move I always liked was casting caltrops then before you drop them steal to your target. It puts the caltrops at their feet right away.

If you’re going power d/d then don’t use db at all.

it will be easier in pve once you get higher level, get more traits and gear and get used to your thief

pvp is different story

I recently just unlocked some new traits that give me 3 initiative when I steal, steal causes poison, and I cause weakness when I poison. In combination of these, should I steal as frequently as possible even mid-fights or is there a tactical time and way to steal or simply use it as a shadowstep to engage mobs? Also, is it more beneficial to run a signet build for open world PvE for the +initiative when activating a signet ? I tend to swap out infiltrators for shadow refuge when I run ascalonian catacombs though.

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

I’m currently a level 27 thief, and as I consulted the forums for advice, I’m finding that what looks great on paper does not equate so well to actual gameplay. For example, I’ve read posts that swear by both D/D and S/P. The problems I am having are that while D/D is great dps, it burns through initiative so quickly that I end up running around hopelessly trying to find the back of the monster that I usually take way too much damage… and don’t even get me started if there are two enemies, and i’ll be kittened if one is ranged. So, I read that D/D is good for single target DPS and I figured that was my problem in the open world where it’s not uncommon to aggro two or three enemies at once. So, I shelved the D/D until I come across a vet, and pull out my D/D + cloak + backstab + cloak and find that the veteran is only at 60% health and then I’m out of initiative and, alas, I get killed trying to dodge until my initiative regenerates.

The problem is, you need to have at least one ranged weapon set to give yourself a breather — which you definitely need at low level. The best one for leveling is either P/D or P/P. Having both weapon sets as melee will only get your killed…evidently.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

I’m currently a level 27 thief, and as I consulted the forums for advice, I’m finding that what looks great on paper does not equate so well to actual gameplay. For example, I’ve read posts that swear by both D/D and S/P. The problems I am having are that while D/D is great dps, it burns through initiative so quickly that I end up running around hopelessly trying to find the back of the monster that I usually take way too much damage… and don’t even get me started if there are two enemies, and i’ll be kittened if one is ranged. So, I read that D/D is good for single target DPS and I figured that was my problem in the open world where it’s not uncommon to aggro two or three enemies at once. So, I shelved the D/D until I come across a vet, and pull out my D/D + cloak + backstab + cloak and find that the veteran is only at 60% health and then I’m out of initiative and, alas, I get killed trying to dodge until my initiative regenerates.

The problem is, you need to have at least one ranged weapon set to give yourself a breather — which you definitely need at low level. The best one for leveling is either P/D or P/P. Having both weapon sets as melee will only get your killed…evidently.

Agreed, though I never used P/D or P/P. I always ran with D/D and a Shortbow. Problems went away real quickly, esp. with multiple foes.

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

Hello fellow thiefs, I recently decided to pick up a thief and I can say that I really enjoy the gameplay tactics, but I feel as though I have to put 100% more effort into killing something than my ranger does (as weak as they are in the meta right now.) And as much effort that I have to put into it, I wouldn’t have a problem with it if just my effort had clear results, but probably a good 75% of my veteran fights result in death.

I’m currently a level 27 thief, and as I consulted the forums for advice, I’m finding that what looks great on paper does not equate so well to actual gameplay. For example, I’ve read posts that swear by both D/D and S/P. The problems I am having are that while D/D is great dps, it burns through initiative so quickly that I end up running around hopelessly trying to find the back of the monster that I usually take way too much damage… and don’t even get me started if there are two enemies, and i’ll be kittened if one is ranged. So, I read that D/D is good for single target DPS and I figured that was my problem in the open world where it’s not uncommon to aggro two or three enemies at once. So, I shelved the D/D until I come across a vet, and pull out my D/D + cloak + backstab + cloak and find that the veteran is only at 60% health and then I’m out of initiative and, alas, I get killed trying to dodge until my initiative regenerates. So, I hopelessly came back to read about black powder + pistol whip and while it is definitely easier, I still find myself dying way too frequently due to 1. black powder’s blind not encompassing all the monsters that I aggro leaving me vulnerable to damage, 2. running out of initiative after one black powder + pistol whip combo, or 3. getting stunned, dazed, knocked back, conditions, and other sorts of damage that go through blind, and 4. ranged mobs being outside of BP’s AoE. So, in turn, this leaves me with no use for D/D in any situation leaving me feeling like I’m not using my thief to it’s full potential, and also still struggling with S/P because I rely so heavily on black powder, that when I run out of initiative or face a ranged mob, i I essentially lose god mode.

And so here I am. Is there anything I’m missing, or are there any tips or tricks that I may be missing that can drastically help me in these situations? Or is it just something that I’m going to have to stick out and hope that it gets better in the long haul once I can utilize traits to their full ability.

just practice thief is bad at low level but its the cheapest class once you got everything unlocked

I found it strange to read your comparison between Thief and Ranger. I’ve recently switched my main from a Ranger to a Thief (took me over a year to finally make the choice). The sheer amount of damage and tools a Thief has makes a Ranger pale in comparison. I now understand why Thieves used to focus me in WvW as a Ranger.

I also feel Thieves bring a lot more group support than a Ranger, particularly in WvW. Often times I’ve saved a teammate or friendly from a stomp by covering them with a Shadow Refuge. As a matter of fact, I saved four people last night by doing that; each time the would-be stomper walked away thinking they were successful, then I came up to revive the poor guy or gal.

In terms of damage, Thieves can’t sit back and “pew pew” from a safe distance. They have to be extremely tactical in their approach, hit hard and fast and failing that retreat to set up for another attempt. I do find it extremely frustrating to play a Thief in PvE, especially when the mobs lock onto you in stealth and won’t allow you to hit their backs (stupid Hybrid krait). Additionally, in PvE, Blinds had a reduced effectiveness against Champions; but when you hit a champ for over 25000, you feel real good about yourself.

- – thief is rather easy as other classes
ranger is just a no brain pve open world leveler.

Lighter.5631:

- – thief is rather easy as other classes

Compare to, say, a warrior? For a new player?

Please.

Only now after about a month do I finally feel like I’m getting comfortable with the class.

OP, give it time.. it does get better.

Lighter.5631:

- – thief is rather easy as other classes
ranger is just a no brain pve open world leveler.

All professions are easy because that’s how Anet made them to be, but you also have to consider that other players will have a hard time with certain professions, including players playing Warriors. Ranger, in fact, is not an easy profession for a lot of people who don’t know how to control their pets thus they generate a lot of hate in dungeons — so it’s not a “no brain” type of profession.

Thieves hit like wet noodles until you’re level 80. You’ll stay squishy, but it’s offset by the ability to burst stuff and evade their attacks.

Dahkeus.8243:

Thieves hit like wet noodles until you’re level 80. You’ll stay squishy, but it’s offset by the ability to burst stuff and evade their attacks.

I disagree. I’m currently leveling a 2nd Thief (out of boredom) and it’s not as you say. You just need to keep your gear up to date and gather every node you find for funding. Low level materials are selling high and should give you enough money to gear up. If gold is low, use your karma.

Also equip the Assassin’s Signet because this signet’s passive is great at low level.

Trait thief right and you’ll find yourself darting across the battlefield taking down targets with conditions and high enough damage to ruin someone’s day. I run D/D shortbow with a focus on Acrobatics, Shadow Arts. I may not hit as hard as someone who’s dedicated their tree to just Damage, but one thing that I am is hard to predict. With shortbow you can harry a group with the bouncing shots and use disabling shot if melee tries getting too close to evade and cripple them. Alternatively if you find yourself fighting a lot of foes the use of a stealth skill and shadow stepping always works. You could also use this to put the enemy on the defensive. With D/D using this you can destroy any ranged support a group may get in short order. At one point stealing grants you stealth which means you can use Steal to pick your next target, backstab them and then use what you stole on them right away before vanishing with Blinding powder or Cloak and Dagger. You can even start to blind people whenever you stealth.

The other route you can go is Acrobatics, which gives you a lot of boost whenever you start dodging and if you want your traps to recharge faster your foe will have a harder time hitting you. Once you get 15 points into it you get half the endurance used to dodge back which can make you dodge 3 times over other class’s 2. At maximum I found that you can do a good bit of damage to a foe before you even hit 1 for that first back stab if you spec right.

I got a thief and i love it. But yes, at early stages name of the game is “Welcome to die!”. You have to learn how to keep yourself alive and remember you’re no warrior or necro.

However unlike what most belive (and trust me – most aren’t brightest peas in the pot), thief has many avenues for survival and doing a lot more then just dishing sick damage. Here are some suggestions for keeping yourself alive:

Signet of malice – the obvious, most simple solution. Each hit heals you. So now it’s about getting as many hits in as possible. against mobs caltrops and shortbow are the miracle workers. try detonating cluster bomb at 0 range when in a pack of monsters and/or placing down poison field (skill #4) where they stand. Big hp returns assured.

ambush – having a npc sidekick is also a means of defense – he can take some heat of you, and if not he’s still a damage support to kill the mob before you die.

smoke screen – blocks most projectiles that try to pass it and shots from behind it blind enemies

black powder – offhand pistol’s 5 skill, fires a blinding shot and creates a small field around you that pulses blind, making melee enemies harmless to you for it’s duration.

pistol/pistol combo. Offers you great 1v1 damage (unload) and let’s you fight at distance avoiding many unpleasent surprises. To die you first must get hit;)

Those are tactics i can think of now, but rest assured that there are more

ya but the thief is going to be nerfed even more the thief is a cool class and all i don’t think it is amazing and worth nerfing as much as it gets but with all the nerfs and thief hate it is going to be impossible to play we get nerfed to death everyone wants us to hold still so that they can smash us in 3 hits. a good war mesmer engie necro ranger guard pretty much anything but an element can kill a thief in a sec or 2 if played right . but those d/d elements can have mad health regen so they can put up a good fight for a thief to . every one thinks the thief is op till they play it and start to see some of the challenges and once u really play a thief u realize just how easy they r to kill

As it’s been mentioned, you’ll need to play differently. Ranger and Thief are almost night-and-day different classes in their styles.

Thieves are almost entirely reliant on positioning. Backstab is called Back stab because it’s meant to be dealt from behind. If you’re front/side-stabbing, then position yourself better. Unlike the ranger, whose pet will soak a ton of aggro and leave you totally okay to just kill willy-nilly, you’re going to have to bring everything on yourself. This is going to be the biggest thing to overcome. After mastering your thief, you’ll likely get fed up with the dependency on your pet, actually. I know a lot of thief-to-ranger players who get deeply upset with playing ranger due to this dependency (I’m also one of these people), because doing it on your own, once mastering the art of doing so, just plays better.

You don’t necessarily have a ton of dodges/endurance regen, either. Unlike the ranger which gets vigor easily, the thief, depending on build, never gets it at all. Time your dodges. To be successful, you need to play smart.

NEVER take on more than one enemy at a time if you can. If you absolutely have to, be sure you have a weapon capable of dealing with such a scenario. It’s commonly-agreed upon that shortbows do the best at this.

Kite, and learn your shortbow 3 dodge timing. It’s a free dodge with a gap-increaser. This can make shortbow an incredibly potent weapon against difficult/high-damage foes due to its spammable evade. Sometimes, killing things fast isn’t EVERYTHING (although the way I play thief, it usually is :P)

Switch when you need to, not just when you can. Unlike ranger, which gets a ton of bonuses from switching, you’ll be penalized for it on a thief for the most part. Knowing what to do and when is the biggest obstacle to overcome.

HS spam won’t get you far in PvE. It kills your positioning, prevents damage mitigation, and blows initiative fast. Engaging with one and ending with one is fine, however most damage as a D/D thief should result from CnD/Stab.

Do dump 10 points into Shadow Arts for the initiative gain on stealth. This saves you so much initiative and lets you do a lot more with it.

Focus on your enemy. You don’t need to worry about keeping your pet alive, being at max range, or healing people. Learn the enemy’s moves, their behaviors and their weaknesses. Brute-forcing won’t do it. Be smarter when fighting, and out-play your opponent.

Don’t get discouraged, and really learn the thief. Once learned, it becomes extremely easy and has a really nice flow, and makes you a better player overall. You can always apply thief strategies to whatever other class you play; reset the fight when you can/if you can if you need to, don’t just charge in stupidly, know your enemy, know your limits and counters, and always have a plan B if things don’t go successfully.

You’re not OP or UP. The meta has you as being weaker, but the early levels are no harder. It all boils down to knowing how to play the class. I play GC squishies exclusively as a gamer, so the thief’s unforgiving nature played well into my style. They’re not harder or weaker, just different.