Guild Wars 2

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Anything that can spam condition removal.
Bleeding is always removed first.
A guardian with decent tankyness and the shouts convert conditions to boons trait and at least stand your ground/hold the line cant die to this type of thief unless you play kinda bad or they do some trickery.

Also, a D/D thief or D/P thief should easily be able to kill them or make them run away, depending on skill.

- project reflection
- cond removal
- melandru runes + “that food”
- cond transfer

just to name a few…

D/P thieves

Probably others

Everything without two hands tied to their back and conditionremove.

wish.1027:

Bleeding is always removed first.

Not according to the wiki, it isn’t.

“Conditions are a type of effect that can be inflicted on foes using of skills and related traits. Most conditions inflict damage over time and ignore armor and other effects that reduce damage, such as protection. For effect stacking, most conditions stack in duration while bleeding and confusion stack in intensity. Conditions can be removed by condition removal. For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. The condition is removed independent of the intensity, so 3 stacks and 25 stacks of bleeding are equivalent when considering condition removal. "

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

d/p is a draw or counter. a few phant/clone builds are tough if the p/d player isnt good/patient. any some ele builds too.

Engie with 409 make P/D like child’s play whilst gaining boon (maybe might too if traited) lol…oh and retal wrecks them

retal doesnt bother my p/d build at all…or engineers for that matter. unless 409 is a power crit build? p/d = 22.5k hp

Nothing really shuts me down other then a D/P thief. Guadians are lovely since I run S/D offhand just to steal boons and improve my survivability.

xmtrcv.5236:

wish.1027:

Bleeding is always removed first.

Not according to the wiki, it isn’t.

For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Ya, someone else said that to me once too.

So I went to sPVP and tested it. Bleeding was removed first even when applied before 2 other conditions. And I have always had it removed first every time Ive ever used a condition remover and paid attention.

(I also swear I once saw a post by a DEV about how they were changing the removal order.)

I have fought a lot of them lately as S/D….P/D is what I ran when I first leveled my thief though. Its definitely the easiest to play for a beginner to thief, and I just wanted to troll some people after watching videos lol.

Since I know how they work and what screws them over though, I know how to fight them pretty well and S/D has the tools to do it. The constant evading means they are liking to miss many Cloak and Dagger attempts if you are good with your evade and don’t just spam it.

The #2 basically is a free clense to keep the bleed off you.

Typically most of them are only really stacking bleed, meaning you only have one real condition to cleanse. You should be using your 2 to engage and disengage anyway, so one condition is no problem.

If they do run poison as well (I did), You can easily cleanse both with your #2, get a stealth, and open up on them.

It wont be too hard for them to run away if they want….as it wouldn’t be hard for you to run away either, actually dying is the thief’s choice pretty much. Over commit for the kill, you risk actually dying. Best way to actually get the kill though is once they are to about half and actually going to try to be defensive, save all your initiative and just Cloak and Dagger then stealth opener Daze attack, auto attack chain them, their first attack will miss from blind, Cloak and Dagger then daze again. Repeat until downed or out of melee range. (I run quite a bit of initiative regen).

If you can make me miss 2 C&D’s, that ruins my day.

Condition Removal, CC, and missing CnDs (through dodge/evade or my own poor timing) present the most challenges.

Travlane.5948:

retal doesnt bother my p/d build at all…or engineers for that matter. unless 409 is a power crit build? p/d = 22.5k hp

Tall Tale Signs of you not using Sneak Attack enough..watched some duels today of a bad thief just auto atking…please tell me that wasnt you lmao

Also , all you have for conditions is bleeding and the occasional poison venom user who’s utility slot is thwarted by 2 cleanses.

409 full elix build , 7 (8 including S) cleansers , 350 dmg per sneak atk X 5 (lets pray he isnt using HGH lmao) = Laugh out Loud.

Without all the mentioned above…itll still be a while before they actually die (all low stacks of bleed) ..inb4 caltrops usage.

The phrase is “tell-tale”. Tall tales are something else, and usually told by non-Thieves visiting this forum. ;)

There is not a single build that can hold its ground against every other build for every other profession. Counters exists all over, and the solution to that is find a better target of opportunity.

As for conditions, it depends on how happy the opponent’s trigger finger is for cleanse (although Engineers do have quite a few). Depending on the thief, build, and play style, conditions range from vulnerability, blind, cripple (Caltrops), venom, and bleed. Though the latter ones tend to be shorter duration.

Would it be possible for you give a build spec as to the type of Engineer you are talking about?

Rok.5260:

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Best counter to P/D thieves in 1v1 is to walk away while laughing.

MIrra.3604:

Rok.5260:

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Best counter to P/D thieves in 1v1 is to walk away while laughing.

Bleeding low stacks…check.

- Save dodges, blinds, aegis for their C&D
- Cleanse conditions after their sneak attack.
- Keep pets etc. on passive or better unsummoned.
- Stay away from mobs, don’t follow thieves who run towards mobs, kill nearby
critters with aoes.
- They also have low access to condition removal and stun breakers in most cases, to
maintain good damage. Which makes them highly vulnerable to Chill, Slow, Immobilize, Knockdowns and Stuns.
- Kite them with ranged weapon, if they can’t access stealth they can’t do nothing.

Besides these skill-based ways, there aren’t really any hard-counters, besides
their low ability to catch up with players who are running away from them.

Personally I found Necromancers, Rangers and Engineers with proper skill and builds
superior against this one. D/D Elementalists and Guardians unkillable.

Warriors and Mesmers are usually the ones who are easy prey
with their stereotypical builds.

MIrra.3604:

Rok.5260:

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Best counter to P/D thieves in 1v1 is to walk away while laughing.

What class are you playing because I can keep 12 stacks of bleed up consistently at 135 damage. Then spider venom on you for around 216 every 2 seconds. If I devourer’s venom you in caltrops I can easily get the bleed stacks to 20+

That’s 2,600 damage a second for my 7/8’s of bleed, not counting my pistol shots and CnD or spider venom. WTF class are you running that can shrug off that damage?

l

WereDragon.6083:

MIrra.3604:

Rok.5260:

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Best counter to P/D thieves in 1v1 is to walk away while laughing.

What class are you playing because I can keep 12 stacks of bleed up consistently at 135 damage. Then spider venom on you for around 216 every 2 seconds. If I devourer’s venom you in caltrops I can easily get the bleed stacks to 20+

That’s 2,600 damage a second for my 7/8’s of bleed, not counting my pistol shots and CnD or spider venom. WTF class are you running that can shrug off that damage?

l

any pseudo class that can move.

WereDragon.6083:

MIrra.3604:

Rok.5260:

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Best counter to P/D thieves in 1v1 is to walk away while laughing.

What class are you playing because I can keep 12 stacks of bleed up consistently at 135 damage. Then spider venom on you for around 216 every 2 seconds. If I devourer’s venom you in caltrops I can easily get the bleed stacks to 20+

That’s 2,600 damage a second for my 7/8’s of bleed, not counting my pistol shots and CnD or spider venom. WTF class are you running that can shrug off that damage?

l

guardians also passively remove conditions. Having faced a few of these on guardian I run a kind of strange build but it works. I will also use smite condition in wvw, though I doubt that’s what we are talking about.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

WereDragon.6083:

WTF class are you running that can shrug off that damage?

any pseudo class that can move.

I think there is a duel challenge somewhere in this conversation. ;)

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

WereDragon.6083:

MIrra.3604:

Rok.5260:

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Best counter to P/D thieves in 1v1 is to walk away while laughing.

What class are you playing because I can keep 12 stacks of bleed up consistently at 135 damage. Then spider venom on you for around 216 every 2 seconds. If I devourer’s venom you in caltrops I can easily get the bleed stacks to 20+

That’s 2,600 damage a second for my 7/8’s of bleed, not counting my pistol shots and CnD or spider venom. WTF class are you running that can shrug off that damage?

l

any pseudo class that can move.

VS PD this is right though. P/D inherently creates gaps and has no closers. If you run away you’ll likely survive.

Ghostwolf.9863:

- Save dodges, blinds, aegis for their C&D
Besides these skill-based ways, there aren’t really any hard-counters, besides
their low ability to catch up with players who are running away from them.

Are you suggesting that thieves are slow? I thought all the Bookahs had died out!

Pewintodo.4138:

Ghostwolf.9863:

- Save dodges, blinds, aegis for their C&D
Besides these skill-based ways, there aren’t really any hard-counters, besides
their low ability to catch up with players who are running away from them.

Are you suggesting that thieves are slow? I thought all the Bookahs had died out!

Yeah, P/x are really fast with that 3 sec swiftness on dodge that ends right after the recovering from the dodge, or that 25% mspeed from signet of shadows which easily
is outrun by swiftness. And so heavy on gap closer with that 45 sec cooldown steal, and possibly 2 shadow steps from utilities. It’s so easy to catch Guardians, Elementalists, Mesmers, Engineers, Warriors, Rangers. wth was I thinking…

Only SB and D/x stands a chance to this über-mobility !

Ghostwolf.9863:

Pewintodo.4138:

Ghostwolf.9863:

- Save dodges, blinds, aegis for their C&D
Besides these skill-based ways, there aren’t really any hard-counters, besides
their low ability to catch up with players who are running away from them.

Are you suggesting that thieves are slow? I thought all the Bookahs had died out!

Yeah, P/x are really fast with that 3 sec swiftness on dodge that ends right after the recovering from the dodge, or that 25% mspeed from signet of shadows which easily
is outrun by swiftness. And so heavy on gap closer with that 45 sec cooldown steal, and possibly 2 shadow steps from utilities. It’s so easy to catch Guardians, Elementalists, Mesmers, Engineers, Warriors, Rangers. wth was I thinking…

Only SB and D/x stands a chance to this über-mobility !

I approve this message.

WereDragon.6083:

MIrra.3604:

Rok.5260:

I mean the full on Carrion P/D Thieves…

Best counter to P/D thieves in 1v1 is to walk away while laughing.

What class are you playing because I can keep 12 stacks of bleed up consistently at 135 damage. Then spider venom on you for around 216 every 2 seconds. If I devourer’s venom you in caltrops I can easily get the bleed stacks to 20+

That’s 2,600 damage a second for my 7/8’s of bleed, not counting my pistol shots and CnD or spider venom. WTF class are you running that can shrug off that damage?

l

Hm…lets see here what class can freely get away if they really wanted to vs a P/D thief?

Thief SR, laugh then walk away.
Warrior with dogged march trait wave by to you as your immob tick for .25.
Ele D/D and Staff will cleanse it all while healing to full also says hit to you.
Mesmer with their 1200 range blink also will flip the bird at you.
Necro will just transfer the condition back on you or turn it into boons.
Engi will shrink/block all the way home.
Guardian will also cleans, heal, block all the way home

GS/S/D ranger can get out easily but other spec will have a harder time getting out.

It is AWFULLY hard to kill a P/D Thief, but frankly, they tickle. Engi won’t even bother shrink/block all the way home, the Med Kit alone (yes, you heard right, not even a 409 junkie) will nullify the damage.

Dodge cloak and dagger, that’s the core of the build. No C/D hit? The entire SA traitline becomes useless, and no sneak attack. If you die to 1 spam, you need to review your life as a GW2 player.