Guild Wars 2

Shovel Face.4512:

Dahkeus.8243:

Urejt.5648:

Petoox.6570:

Seriously guys, just because you are bad thieves and stuck in emerald/sapphire/ruby doesn’t mean the class is bad and can’t carry.

Look at Sindrenerr or Vallun for example, they know how to carry.

vollun lost 10:1 vs rev on stream pure duel style.

Fortunately, PvP is based on conquest, not duels. Thief wins games by being able to rotate faster than any other class and can often do so undetected.

Winning 1 v 1s is nice for bragging rights, but forcing an enemy to constantly watch home while you assist in mid simply because they know that they’ll get decapped if they try to assist is more valuable.

But here’s the thing. Revs and Mesmers can do that and they can do it better. Its just the belief from the PvP community that it’s a thief only job. NO. It’s not, in fact 2 other classes do it better.

No, revs and mesmers don’t necessarily do it better.

Revs are fast between points with swiftness/super speed and staff, but they’re still generally slower since thieves can port. They also don’t have stealth to rotate unseen.

Mesmers ports are amazing for mobility and make gamebreaking team plays in organized groups and they do have ports for shortcuts, but without portal, a thief will beat them to a point every time.

And yea, it was no surprise that you’re seeing revs/mesmers over thieves in tournament play. Revs provide more team utility and do better in sustained team fights. Mesmers with a coordinated team can make for amazing portal plays.

Thieves, I’d argue, are better for solo queue as long as they’re not stacked on a team since they can drive the rotations instead of having to follow them for team fights. Stealth rotations also go farther against uncoordinated teams who can’t call out the thief location on voice chat. They also don’t rely on teammates who know when and why to take a portal.

There’s definite shortcomings of the profession and again, I won’t argue that thieves need help in certain areas of the game (specifically in competitive league play), but for the vast, vast majority of the player base who solo queues or isn’t at league-level play, the thief profession has all the tools you need to succeed well beyond other professions when used in the right way.

I.e. It’s not the best class in all areas, but it’s certainly not the worst as the title of this thread states.

Dahkeus.8243:

There’s definite shortcomings of the profession and again, I won’t argue that thieves need help in certain areas of the game (specifically in competitive league play), but for the vast, vast majority of the player base who solo queues or isn’t at league-level play, the thief profession has all the tools you need to succeed well beyond other professions when used in the right way.

I.e. It’s not the best class in all areas, but it’s certainly not the worst as the title of this thread states.

I’d have to agree with you but for one serious issue. The thief is fine as long as you can outplay the opponent. Meaning you can do fine in any league that has players under your skill level. As soon as people catch up to your level, the thief is at a glaring disadvantage.

I’ve actually tested this with this secondary account. Playing a vanilla thief I can very easily turn matches. Just like I could on my main account up to end Ruby. But beyond that, the average enemy gets better and the speed advantage of a thief isn’t big enough to outweigh the lack of anything substantial during fights. AoE conditions rip a thief to bits, most 1v1 are an uphill battle, much easier on pretty much any class I’ve tried it on.

This can be ‘handled’ by teaming up with friends and playing the thief as a pure group tool. But the question would be, wouldn’t another class be even more deadly used in such a way. I still hope the final answer can be no, but ESL does make one wonder.

Hanza.6872:

Dahkeus.8243:

There’s definite shortcomings of the profession and again, I won’t argue that thieves need help in certain areas of the game (specifically in competitive league play), but for the vast, vast majority of the player base who solo queues or isn’t at league-level play, the thief profession has all the tools you need to succeed well beyond other professions when used in the right way.

I.e. It’s not the best class in all areas, but it’s certainly not the worst as the title of this thread states.

I’d have to agree with you but for one serious issue. The thief is fine as long as you can outplay the opponent. Meaning you can do fine in any league that has players under your skill level. As soon as people catch up to your level, the thief is at a glaring disadvantage.

I’ve actually tested this with this secondary account. Playing a vanilla thief I can very easily turn matches. Just like I could on my main account up to end Ruby. But beyond that, the average enemy gets better and the speed advantage of a thief isn’t big enough to outweigh the lack of anything substantial during fights. AoE conditions rip a thief to bits, most 1v1 are an uphill battle, much easier on pretty much any class I’ve tried it on.

This can be ‘handled’ by teaming up with friends and playing the thief as a pure group tool. But the question would be, wouldn’t another class be even more deadly used in such a way. I still hope the final answer can be no, but ESL does make one wonder.

I can’t say that I’ve really experienced what you’re talking about.

Now, of course, the ability to carry is much greater when you’re playing people under your skill level, especially since you can do things like 1 v 1 and fully cap (not just decap) undefended points.

However, even once you get past that level of play, there’s still a lot of room to push a team ahead utilizing thief strengths with +1, decap (or forcing enemy away from engaging due to threat of decap), fast to instant stomps with Impact, and things like beast steals.

If you’re at Ruby level or beyond, you really shouldn’t be in AoE range for long enough to take that kind of damage (short bow for AoE pressure, then quick in and out burst with dagger on low hp enemies) and you definitely shouldn’t be engaging in any 1 v 1s. You carry a team by making fights unfair, not by winning fair fights.

Something else to note:

Thief is particularly strong at +1 against necros. As long as you keep track of shroud, you can easily land clutch impact strikes against them in team fights and spike them before a S&R ranger can even do anything.

@Dahkeus.8243: the problem is diamond/legend is it is flooded with revs and any half decent rev will train you all match and won’t let you decap/+1 anything. Bottom line you have to be better than anyone in match (including own team) in most cases to do well. So say you face someone of same skill, you are worthless on thief. This is what is really wrong with this class.

Cynz.9437:

@Dahkeus.8243: the problem is diamond/legend is it is flooded with revs and any half decent rev will train you all match and won’t let you decap/+1 anything. Bottom line you have to be better than anyone in match (including own team) in most cases to do well. So say you face someone of same skill, you are worthless on thief. This is what is really wrong with this class.

This is a meta full of hard counters. Thieves still wreck necros, even though they wreck scrappers.

Still doesn’t make them “worst class”.

Dahkeus.8243:

Cynz.9437:

@Dahkeus.8243: the problem is diamond/legend is it is flooded with revs and any half decent rev will train you all match and won’t let you decap/+1 anything. Bottom line you have to be better than anyone in match (including own team) in most cases to do well. So say you face someone of same skill, you are worthless on thief. This is what is really wrong with this class.

This is a meta full of hard counters. Thieves still wreck necros, even though they wreck scrappers.

Still doesn’t make them “worst class”.

A thief doesn’t wreck a necro. If a necro dies before someone rotates to them that death is on the team

To properly wreck a necro (kill faster than help can arrive) the necro player has to be extremely worse than the thief.

Azukas.1426:

Dahkeus.8243:

Cynz.9437:

@Dahkeus.8243: the problem is diamond/legend is it is flooded with revs and any half decent rev will train you all match and won’t let you decap/+1 anything. Bottom line you have to be better than anyone in match (including own team) in most cases to do well. So say you face someone of same skill, you are worthless on thief. This is what is really wrong with this class.

This is a meta full of hard counters. Thieves still wreck necros, even though they wreck scrappers.

Still doesn’t make them “worst class”.

A thief doesn’t wreck a necro. If a necro dies before someone rotates to them that death is on the team

To properly wreck a necro (kill faster than help can arrive) the necro player has to be extremely worse than the thief.

I think you’re still in the same “let’s judge classes based on 1 v 1 duels!” world that the other “thief is bad!” people are in.

It’s like people in this thread don’t realize that you don’t need to engage in duels to be a star player on your team…

Thieves wreck necros because they have limited stab and when their shroud is down, they’re easily burst and spiked so hard that there’s no chance the other team can revive, even if they have a S&R ranger in the same fight.

Dahkeus.8243:

Azukas.1426:

Dahkeus.8243:

Cynz.9437:

@Dahkeus.8243: the problem is diamond/legend is it is flooded with revs and any half decent rev will train you all match and won’t let you decap/+1 anything. Bottom line you have to be better than anyone in match (including own team) in most cases to do well. So say you face someone of same skill, you are worthless on thief. This is what is really wrong with this class.

This is a meta full of hard counters. Thieves still wreck necros, even though they wreck scrappers.

Still doesn’t make them “worst class”.

A thief doesn’t wreck a necro. If a necro dies before someone rotates to them that death is on the team

To properly wreck a necro (kill faster than help can arrive) the necro player has to be extremely worse than the thief.

I think you’re still in the same “let’s judge classes based on 1 v 1 duels!” world that the other “thief is bad!” people are in.

It’s like people in this thread don’t realize that you don’t need to engage in duels to be a star player on your team…

Thieves wreck necros because they have limited stab and when their shroud is down, they’re easily burst and spiked so hard that there’s no chance the other team can revive, even if they have a S&R ranger in the same fight.

Your argument would hold weight except there are classes who do exactly what the thief can do but 1v1, support, etc.

My mesmer currently can have great map mobility (not as much as thief but enough to do job) and can 1v1 all meta classes, team fight, etc.

Ok, this thread is just going in circles and now someone’s arguing the same point I already responded to earlier…

Dahkeus.8243:

Ok, this thread is just going in circles and now someone’s arguing the same point I already responded to earlier…

No you argued that thieves are fine but just not at all viable in competitive matches.

That is an oxymoron.

The 1v1 part I talk about (i believe all classes should have a 50/50 against eachother) should apply to thieves as well since other classes can do everything a thief does and MORE.

That’s why thieves have fallen out of the meta. If you were to nerf every other classes rotation speeds you’d see more thieves in competitive matches due to their decap ability.

Azukas.1426:

Dahkeus.8243:

Ok, this thread is just going in circles and now someone’s arguing the same point I already responded to earlier…

No you argued that thieves are fine but just not at all viable in competitive matches.

That is an oxymoron.

The 1v1 part I talk about (i believe all classes should have a 50/50 against eachother) should apply to thieves as well since other classes can do everything a thief does and MORE.

That’s why thieves have fallen out of the meta. If you were to nerf every other classes rotation speeds you’d see more thieves in competitive matches due to their decap ability.

Dude, it’s not even worth it trying to explain this to you anymore. You didn’t get what I said earlier, but I don’t think you’d consider anything other than your own opinion anyways. Especially since you can’t help but see PvP strictly through a 1 v 1 view, rather than a Conquest view.

Dahkeus.8243:

Azukas.1426:

Dahkeus.8243:

Ok, this thread is just going in circles and now someone’s arguing the same point I already responded to earlier…

No you argued that thieves are fine but just not at all viable in competitive matches.

That is an oxymoron.

The 1v1 part I talk about (i believe all classes should have a 50/50 against eachother) should apply to thieves as well since other classes can do everything a thief does and MORE.

That’s why thieves have fallen out of the meta. If you were to nerf every other classes rotation speeds you’d see more thieves in competitive matches due to their decap ability.

Dude, it’s not even worth it trying to explain this to you anymore. You didn’t get what I said earlier, but I don’t think you’d consider anything other than your own opinion anyways. Especially since you can’t help but see PvP strictly through a 1 v 1 view, rather than a Conquest view.

I’m looking at it from a conquest Pov and right now thief is 1 of 3 classes that aren’t good. In the thief’s case their combat prowess has been repeatedly nerfed for the sake of their ability to move quickly around the map. Well that ability is no longer valid because along with a gigantic power creep anet also buffed everyone else’s mobility.

Yetc each one of those classes retain thier combat prowess while encroaching and nullifying the one aspect that the thief excels at.

So I get you look at it from a conquest pov, but you even said it yourself. Thief isnt viable in competitive matches and that means it aint viable period.