Guild Wars 2

Posted also at: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/64152-jinzus-burst-backstab-build/
—-
Hey guys!

I created this video to showcase the burst ability of a glass cannon thief (for those who haven’t tried it, or haven’t pulled it off properly yet).

Pros:

+Ridiculous Damage.
+Aside from Cloak and Dagger, and the OCCASIONAL Heartseeker, you have your initiative high and available for quick getaway with a shortbow.

Cons:

-Survivability (there are many times where you can’t stomp thanks to enemy team members / aoe damage).
-No cc breakers (see Options section, at the bottom)
-Time between burst (looking at between 45 seconds and 1 minute, assuming you want to wait for your haste buff, which is a good idea).
-If you use your haste buff, well. All you got is your shortbow to make a getaway, since you can’t dodge.

-=Weapon Set=-

Primary: Dagger/Dagger
Offhand: Shortbow (though, I have successfully used Dagger/Pistol as well (primarily for the blind and stealth combo).

-=Armor sigils=-

Full 6/6 SCHOLAR: I found this set to be the best as I believe it will give me 18% damage as long as I’m above 90% health (on crits), which you should be when you’re doing your opener.

-=Weapon sigils=-

D/D:

Air: This typically hits for 700 to 2k. Very nice to add to your burst.
Force: +5% Damage, yes please.

Shortbow:

Superior Bloodlust: Kill pets, people, whatever. With the AoE from the shortbow, you should have 25 stacks of this in NO time. Now… See what that does for your burst! =)

Build is in video, or you can find it here: http://gw2skills.net...LLXOukctgYQxsAA

-=Playstyle=-

You will be using your offhand very often. You should do your best to stay OUT of a big fight, unless you have terrain advantage in your favor. If you do, then use your shortbow, and rack up kills from a distance.

When you see someone on the outskirts of a fight, or solo, ESPECIALLY if they are not full health, then you should switch to your dagger/dagger combo and annihilate them (IF… IF you have your cooldowns up).

Everything, and I mean everything rides on your opener into the fight. If you fail the opener, switch to your shortbow and book it, if you can — unless you feel that you can pull off the win. Remember, you are a glass cannon.

This is a hard concept for people, and is despised by other players on your team. If you play like this is a deathmatch and just run in and help people in all situations other classes do, you’re just going to be rolled over. You have to stay on the outskirts. Think as though you were actually a thief/assassin. Looking in from the outside, finding the opportune moment, get in and get out. In the video you’ll see scenarios of me being reckless, but for the most part, you should see that I try and come from around a corner, or whilst the enemy is busy with a teammate.

-=Strategies=-

Opener: Your opener, should always be Basilisk Venom => Skale Venom => Cloak and Dagger => Steal (during the animation of CnD) (This part is key, as the steal will stun them via Basilisk Venom preventing their escape in that 1 second) => Assassin’s Signet => Backstab. If you mess up the timing, you will get the Assassin’s Signet to trigger off of Steal or Cloak and Dagger. THIS IS OK! They do massive damage as it is! In the video, you’ll see one where I hit Cloak and Dagger for 11k! Optionally, but HIGHLY recommended, use HASTE before Assassin’s Signet (it seems like the buff from Assassin’s Signet goes away when you use haste after it, so use it before). This basically makes it so most classes just don’t survive a few hits after your opener. If this is done right, you will have TEN STACKS of might, and 2 stacks of vulnerability before you even hit them with backstab.

Heartseeker: You USUALLY won’t need to use it. However, don’t be afraid of the “lol spammer HS” people. You’ve basically killed them if you pulled off your opener. Just one HS usually finishes the job. Don’t spam it though, because if you are going against an amazing player or people show up to help that player, you may need to jet with your shortbow and you’ll need your initiative.

Shortbow: If you see a big battle, that looks like it’s swinging in your favor while you are at range pelting away — you can TRY this, and it often times seals the deal for your team. Run into melee range and cluster bomb spam.

Cluster bomb spam (well, be mindful of your initiative) is also helpful against mesmers (watch that confuse!!) and the multiple illusions they have.

Just remember, it’s risky as you honestly really die fast.

Fun tip: This is VERY situational, but fun to add to your burst! If you are attacking at range with your shortbow, and you see a people just running in a circle at a node or something….. Try this:

1) Use your poisons for your opener.

2) Shoot a cluster bomb (don’t autoattack!!!).

3) Switch to your dagger/dagger combo.

4) As the cluster bomb is coming down, perform your opener! You just added 1.5k to 5k to your already lethal burst if you pulled everything off right. The thing to be careful of is, that you want to time your cloak and dagger to hit AFTER the cluster bomb connects, else your cluster bomb will de-stealth you. =\

-=Video=-
I have uploaded a video to youtube to showcase the power of the build:

I apologize as this is my first video, and things are kind of all over the place.

This is what you can expect to find in this video:

• Build and Gear setup (I apologize for the duration of this in the video), which is also listed above.
• Highlights of some of my recent sPvP outtings (basically, clip after clip of the opener destroying people).
• High crits.

This is what you won’t find in this video:

• In depth strategy.
• Drawn out fights.
• Playstyle demonstrations.
• My deaths.
• Opponents being stomped.
• My highest crits (I’m a noob and couldn’t get the encoding/decoding thing to work with my first few clips, where I had my highest crits and couldn’t get them to happen again since (basically due to my scrubbing it up and trying too hard to get good clips for the video (FTR, my highest backstab crit thus far is 15,1xx, and I had posted a screenshot of a 14k+ one on these very forums)).

-=Options=-

If you wanted more survivability, you can give up either Haste, or Skale Venom — I’d still keep the Assassin’s Signet for those big hits. Good survivability replacements are Shadow Refuge and blinding powder.

Alternatively, using Roll for Initiative is nice because if you are using Haste, you can’t dodge (unless you use the Signet of Shadows, of course), and so to be able to use your bow to teleport away, and then Roll for Initiative for more distance, plus another teleport, is quite nice.

Don’t forget Shadow Step! It is a great way to fill in that lack of survivability hole, and it would be your only real stun removal.

For a little more control, you can switch one of the above (preferably Skale Venom) with Scorpion Wire. Basically, do your opener, and either a) wait for them to roll away and pull them right back! or do it RIGHT after your backstab, for another second or two of dps time whilst they are cc’d.

You could replace Skale Venom with Devourer venom, for an additional second of cc time via the immobilize.

One other option is to use Flanking Strikes instead of Thrill of the Crime. But, TotC helps ensure that your backstab and cloak and dagger are crits, so I find it may be more helpful. YMMV.

Dagger/Pistol OH instead of Shortbow: This reduces your chances of escape, BUT!!! It will also help you stand toe to toe more effectively with your enemies, and additionally, you can stomp more easily and still pull off decent escapes via the Black Powder => Heartseeker combo.

Final thoughts:

This build isn’t for everyone, and it doesn’t promote team play. You almost USE your teammates as scape goats and to draw the line of fire while you sneak in from behind. Enemies complain about your damage (one of the clips in my video, if you read the text, you’ll see one guy complaining), allies complain that you’re not helping as you should. You die quick, but kill quick. If the fight lasts more than 5 seconds, you’re in trouble.

As much fun as this build can be, I’ll be working on a more “tanky” and “helpful” type build next, while hopefully still keeping my view of the thief intact (stealthy assassin).

why do i recognize the jinzu name….i believe i have followed one of your guides in another game….WoW perhaps?

also…every good build…using it now

Heya, must have been some poser. :P

Although I do have a lvl 85 Rogue named Jinzu in WoW, I never made a guide.

Thanks, I’m glad you are enjoying it! =)

Love the idea, the detailed explanation and the video. Great work.

Good guide,but i’m loving this spec

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYAQNAoYVlUmCPXcS5E/5Ex2DfuTeypwoIVTBNbJA;TsAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1sgYQxsAA

i get 10k backstabs with this builds aswell,but the extra stealth time,and stealth on stealing is delicious(for good positioning),you should try it sometimes

Jinzu, this guide really helped me a lot, took me a day or so of constant gaming to have a decent success rate of activating the signet, so i just turned auto attack off, and bound it to my mouse scroll wheel click. Works much better for timing.

Thanks for the guide, if you could upload maybe another video or two detailing how to play on certain maps, I’ve also tried this in tournaments, and it works quite well if you have the right pre made group * point defender guardian and point defender necro, condition engineer, and burst mesmer. Works really well.

Man this build looks hilarious. I commend you for making a Thief build that doesn’t just spam LDB, Heartseeker, or Pistol Whip.

Hey guys, thanks for the comments!

@Warden.8927: I’m glad I was able to help and that you were able to make it work for you! As for your request for another video, I was thinking about doing a video detailing how I play the maps, but am currently in the midst of another project: I’m trying to create the opposite of the burst build and showcasing a Survival rogue.

Perhaps after I finish with that, I’ll create a video showcasing some sPvP play with the burst build!

Thanks for the Reply, I’ll be giving the survival build a go once it comes out

Just thought I’d add something fun I did earlier with backstab and signets that give might etc: http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac344/Takomuhra/gw038.jpg

Sure you can prolly get more, especially if you have someone else buffing you, butkittenis it fun still

Why not pick the 100% crit rate when stealthed trait?

Tallman,how does one spams LDB ,worth half of his initiative?
I am sure that i say that you spam turrets,and that’s all you do,i will not be correct
and i will sound like a fool.So please don’t make a fool of yourself either.
As for the build,it does exactly what it says:quick insta-kills,big numbers,lot’s of fun.

can’t wait to go home and try this build, but i got a feeling i’m not gonna like it for long.

I have to admit to being a bit ambivalent about this build. I really REALLY hate seeing highlight reels of one-trick pony builds like this, but at the same time I’m actually impressed with the numbers you put out in the video.

What I would like to see is a video from the OP for the entire duration of a few different matches. See how it does outside of the highlights when the CDs aren’t ready.

It looks like a REALLY fun build when it works. But I’m guessing that it isn’t always as effective as the vid makes it out to be.

Thanks for the build. Tried it, definitely works, but I’m not into the one trick pony thing. So you get a kill once every ~45 seconds, you’re relatively worthless the rest of the time and no help in group situations at all. I also am like, 99% positive ANet will ultimately ‘fix’ this so this build is no longer viable for the same reason they’ll fix bullrush + haste + hundred blades on warriors. No class, ever, should do 90% or more of someones health in 1second AND they are frozen from any reaction they MIGHT have the twitch skills to have.

Fun build, big numbers, kind of gimmicky, not well rounded and likely going to get hit with the nerf bat.

Revelstoke.8924:

for the same reason they’ll fix bullrush + haste + hundred blades on warriors

There’s no need to “fix” that considering Roll For Initiative (and any other stun breaker for that matter) instantly defeats that combo and wastes his only “IWIN” button (plus two of his utilities to my one)

And yet relying on a 1 min CD just so you can survive what otherwise would 1-shot you is poor design. You should know that.

There is no justification for builds that practically 1-shot people, be it a Warrior 100 Blades or Thief-backstab builds.

No matter if a combo has a 45 second CD, a 5 minute CD or even a 24 hour CD. A long cooldown or an extensive setup DO NOT JUSTIFY the ability to one-shot people. As the most incessant spammer of MMO-Champion, you should be able to recall Ghostcrawler’s stance on that issue.

If people aren’t given the chance to fight back, they will ALWAYS feel cheesed, frustrated and cheated. It is ANets job to ensure that people have their chance (and ours to find ways around that).

Even a duel between two glass-cannon builds should last at least 6 seconds and involve the use of a handful of abilities.

Awesome build and great video together with it! Gonna give it a try before any nerf bat(hopefully not) hits!

Keep it up!

Pyrocat.3984:

Why not pick the 100% crit rate when stealthed trait?

The main reason is because my build has a pretty high chance to crit on it’s own. The character sheet doesn’t show the 7% from flanking strikes, though it does show the crit bonus from fury.

I felt that it was a high enough chance to crit that I would be better served by the 20% more damage at less than 50% health.

Especially since the first two strikes alone, on many people, bring them down to < 50% mark.

Doh, didn’t mean Flanking Strikes, meant: Side Strike

I did this build around a week ago, what I have found from this build is around a handful of problems; First off its a 10 second build, meaning that its the duration your initiative lasts for, so if you cannot kill something in that duration of time, there is no countermeasure. Second the damage bonus you get from First Strikes is next to never active. Third, the damage bonus on the bow is deactivated when I swapped weapons. Fourth, you can kill a few very under geared people and or mobs quickly but not many, you have next to no escape tool with this build as well, you can dodge 2 times and pop a speed bonus, but most people have more ways to catch you with their weapon set alone than you have to escape with (or run with if you are chasing). Fifth, you need your target to have the undivided attention of something before you attack a good majority of the time, otherwise you will die before you get the chance to attack.

Basically, its another build to play with, but don’t expect much from it; Anyone build for Toughness, Vitality, or both will turn this build inside out, anything that is a Veteran or higher in level 75+ zones you cannot solo either. This build has nice burst, but its a very short lived burst.

In a nutshell, It is a fun build at first, but not my style.

Kaona are you certain the sigil doesn’t work? Worked for me…

I used the crit version and it would happen often, so I just put it on both of my weapon sets to fix that problem. If that problem was fixed by now I’m not sure, but it wasn’t working last week.

Also, I prefer the crit version of the sigil, it helps on getting my crit over 80%, so this way it will proc the lightning far more often.

This build isn’t useless for 45 seconds..

You just spam heartseeker until ur CDs are up.

DUH ;p

Dee Jay, who said I’m relying on a 1-minute cooldown to survive? I’m relying on a 1-minute cooldown to counter YOUR 1-minute cooldown.

I don’t think it’s right to put your name on a build. I’ve been using a VERY similar and more affective build (imo) since the first beta.

Kannuki.8517:

Doh, didn’t mean Flanking Strikes, meant: Side Strike

May i ask what you keybinds are?

@Kurow.6973
Fair enough. I’m not claiming ownership. Simply claiming that this is the build that I use for burst.

@RiskRagger.7540
Healing Skill: Ctrl-~
Utility Skills and Elite Skill: Ctrl-1 through Ctrl-4.

@Kaona.9105
I’m sorry that you had a lot of difficulty with this build. My intention wasn’t for a person to enter combat, and spend their initiative fighting. The guide indicated that once your opener is complete, if all you need is a heartseeker or two, fine — but if not — you use your initiative to get out.

For example, switching to bow, using skill #3 and/or #5, stealthing, etc — to try and get away. Not that it is a guaranteed escape of course, as you’ve noted.

A glass cannon build is just as you described, having the ability to kill quick, but in turn can die quick. It sounds, by your own admission, that this type of build is not for you, and that’s OK! This post was simply to make people aware of it and to try something that may cater to them.

The CnD + Steal animation thing might be an exploit (so beware using it).
Pretty sure that is not working as intended.

There are quite a bit of instant skills across the professions that do not interrupt your current action or channeled skills.

It’s likely that the range detection was intentionally put in at the end of CnD. Combat is fast paced and involves constant movement. If you can start CnD and run towards a potential target, then shadowstepping should also be fine. Would you say that using steal to escape being hit is also an exploit?

“The CnD + Steal animation thing might be an exploit (so beware using it).
Pretty sure that is not working as intended.”

It’s NOT an exploit. It’s how shadowstep works. Shadowstep is a simple displacement that does NOT cancel your que’d commands. It’s an INSTANT cast ability, this is how it works, and is meant to work. It’s been this way since GW1.

Are you even serious? Cheap shot + Kidney shot + shadow dance is more balanced than this…. thing. Way to balance your “only skill matters” pvp anet!

Bunker Guardians will eat yourkitten /p>

Holy.2356:

Are you even serious? Cheap shot + Kidney shot + shadow dance is more balanced than this…. thing. Way to balance your “only skill matters” pvp anet!

Said the glass cannon.

This is pretty much what i’ve been doing. Total PWNAGE!

Kabuki & Kurow:
Hence why I said it “MIGHT” be an exploit. Neither I nor you know what ANets intentions were when they designed those skills.

Also, when I do the above “trick” it obviously works, but my character doesn’t show up as stealthed – even though he is (I can backstab while being “visible”). Another indicator that this indeed is not working as intended.

Anyway, use it all you want. To gimmicky for me.

You do know you just posted a guide to the back stab cookie cutter build?

@Tribeca.3729: I did not know that, as a matter of fact. I apologize if that is the case, I had not seen any videos or any guides, or any ingame thieves for that matter in the time that I have played to assume anyone even use this type of spec. Not that I doubt there were people that knew about it, I’m hardly claiming first, but I wanted to bring it to more people’s attention — and I think at the very least I’ve accomplished that.

“Hence why I said it “MIGHT” be an exploit. Neither I nor you know what ANets intentions were when they designed those skills.

Also, when I do the above “trick” it obviously works, but my character doesn’t show up as stealthed – even though he is (I can backstab while being “visible”). Another indicator that this indeed is not working as intended.

Anyway, use it all you want. To gimmicky for me."

I don’t think you read what I wrote…or maybe you did, but did not understand it.

As for you personally not looking like you’re stealthed…that’s at your end. Your own visual, and connection lag. It’s the same concept as people being hit by the supposed invisible enemies.

This is what I do but you can only do burst damage every so often. After you pop all your signets to get the extra damage you’re not as effective, leaving you vulnerable

Backstab needs a serious nerf.

Hello,
I currently run a d/d heavy condition build which is quite marvelous when DB’ing multiple targets at once. It is way better AOE than my shortbow is. Dropping Caltrops in the middle of a group and blossoming around is fantastic. Great aoe.

I am starting to farm for my max stat gear set, I was thinking of rolling a similar build to the one you posted, however I question its aoe potential. People love the shortbow, but I find it insanely lackluster. People tout the detonation of cluster bomb, and I still find it mediocre at best. I find it clumsy and to be more accurate you have to be right on your target. Lets face it, when zerging and there are a million spell effects going off, you cant see your bomb to know when to detonate.

So I ask, what is this builds AOE potential? As I said, with my previous build Id be dropping caltrops (which is off cooldown pretty quickly) and DB’ing x 3…maybe work a stealth in there for more ini, then DB again. So many stacks of bleed on all the targets.