Jon's Comment about 33% more Init

Jon's Comment about 33% more Init

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Posted by: Sifu.6527

Sifu.6527

This is what he said:

“This is great feedback. One thing I will tell you is that now your build has 33% more initiative than it used to. This will gain you back that lost survivability and then some IMO.”

Jon,

How about this, don’t increase the base init regen from .75/sec to 1/sec. Just give 4 more base init for a total of 16 base init and keep the regen at .75/sec. By your own definition, that would translate to 33% more initiative.

I would rather have that than the 1/sec init regen.

Thanks,

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Posted by: Loki.8793

Loki.8793

No, that’s a horrible suggestion. The only thing adding 4 extra initiative would do is increase a Thief’s initial burst output; it does nothing for a prolonged fight.

Having an increased initiative regain rate increases the amount of skills we can use over a duration of time. Having an increased cap on initiative gives us one extra skill at the beginning of the fight. The former is the clearly better option. This is why traits such as infusion of shadow are vastly superior to preparedness: Infusion of Shadow lets us use a Cloak & dagger → backstab combo indefinitely while preparedness let’s us use it around 3-4 times before we run out of initiative.

Jon wants thieves to be able to last longer in prolonged fights, which is why we see this change to initiative. Your suggestion completely dismisses this goal and highlights an “all or nothing” burst build, which is something I feel this game should steer away from.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

I too find this a horrible idea. Init-regen increase or init-refund is the best solution here. I think Anet is going towards the right direction here.

This is what I suggested in one of my posts;

Counter-Solution (hypothetical/non-tested):
- Increase initiative gain based on the amount missing.
- 100% init = .75/sec
- 75% init = +25% (.93/sec)
- 50% init = +33% (1/sec)
- 25% init = +50% (1.13/s)
- 0% init = +66% (1.25/s)

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

I too find this a horrible idea. Init-regen increase or init-refund is the best solution here. I think Anet is going towards the right direction here.

This is what I suggested in one of my posts;

Counter-Solution (hypothetical/non-tested):
- Increase initiative gain based on the amount missing.
- 100% init = .75/sec
- 75% init = +25% (.93/sec)
- 50% init = +33% (1/sec)
- 25% init = +50% (1.13/s)
- 0% init = +66% (1.25/s)

Not a bad idea but people would complain that thieves could HS spam more now and would be rewarded for doing so. Although this would dramatically improve the thief’s ability to finish people while not drastically changing the fight above 50% health.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

Agreed… bad idea. As soon as a fight goes over 16s the new system is better. It also makes running down players post fight easier since a lot of our speed/mobility is tied to initiative regen.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

I too find this a horrible idea. Init-regen increase or init-refund is the best solution here. I think Anet is going towards the right direction here.

This is what I suggested in one of my posts;

Counter-Solution (hypothetical/non-tested):
- Increase initiative gain based on the amount missing.
- 100% init = .75/sec
- 75% init = +25% (.93/sec)
- 50% init = +33% (1/sec)
- 25% init = +50% (1.13/s)
- 0% init = +66% (1.25/s)

Not a bad idea but people would complain that thieves could HS spam more now and would be rewarded for doing so. Although this would dramatically improve the thief’s ability to finish people while not drastically changing the fight above 50% health.

Not necessarily. The only reason we see a lot of HS spamming is due to the fact that our Init-bar depletes so fast that once it is tapped out, all we can really do is HS. But if the Init-bar depletes at a slower rate, we will see more meaningful combos and less HS spamming.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Rafahil.2857

Rafahil.2857

But after 10Dec thieves and “prolonged fight” won’t mix well together anymore regardless of extra initiative regen….

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Posted by: Oghier.7419

Oghier.7419

It’s probably too late in the cycle to suggest significant redesigns of anything, at least for Dec 10th.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

But after 10Dec thieves and “prolonged fight” won’t mix well together anymore regardless of extra initiative regen….

I highly doubt that. The extra init-regen will allow us to put a lot of pressure and force targets to blow their cooldowns making a lasting fight more fair than before.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

But after 10Dec thieves and “prolonged fight” won’t mix well together anymore regardless of extra initiative regen….

The exact opposite is true. Opportunity builds might see a reduction in burst but most builds will see more attacks over time. The change actually encourages pacing over burst.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: AlexEBT.7240

AlexEBT.7240

The exact opposite is true. Opportunity builds might see a reduction in burst but most builds will see more attacks over time. The change actually encourages pacing over burst.

Question: what other builds are we talking here? i would love to hear some examples

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Posted by: Kincaidia.3192

Kincaidia.3192

We still have builds?

Jon's Comment about 33% more Init

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Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

you could also revert it and say its a 25% decrease. all how you look at it :P

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Posted by: Deathspike.1870

Deathspike.1870

The exact opposite is true. Opportunity builds might see a reduction in burst but most builds will see more attacks over time. The change actually encourages pacing over burst.

Question: what other builds are we talking here? i would love to hear some examples

For example the one that I run, a Berserker/Soldier/Valkyrie D/D+S/D 0/30/30/10/0 thief build to endure prolonged fighting to counter the rampant warrior and condition meta (assuming sword will remain viable; otherwise, blind spamming D/D+D/P I suppose!). Continuously health leaching with food and is sitting at 16k HP, 2.4K armor, 102% crit damage and 50% crit chance, it is quite capable of enduring group engagements and will get only stronger across the board with the initiative regeneration change.

Active: Mesmer, Warrior
Inactive: Guardian, Elementalist, Ranger, Thief (ex-main)
Leveling: Engineer, Necromancer

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

The change actually encourages pacing over burst.

I don’t think so.

The change actually gets you back into bursting sooner even if you don’t land a crit and triggers Opportunity.

Hypothetically speaking, if I can burst every 10s right now, I can burst every 8s after Dec 10.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.