Guild Wars 2

Unless they make major changes, here is what the Shiro legend gives them. Granted, things cost energy, but that energy regens pretty fast and when you look at our counterpart skills as thieves…I just don’t know what to say. Our elite spec better be freaking great.

1. A large range, AoE, 3 second (!!!) petrify with no cooldown. Costs 50 energy which regens in 5 ish seconds I think. Not a long cast time, and can even be cast faster with quickness. It seems like it deals damage too, not sure though.

2. On demand quickness toggle.

3. Basically roll for initiative with no cooldown and also gives back 50 endurance (thanks for the feline grace change though…), costs 30 energy.

4. Sword 3 skill looks like ricochet on steroids with a shadow stepping swordsman. Grants 7 stacks of might and can act as a gap closer. But you know, ricochet was too hard to balance with that 50% bounce chance.

5. Sword 5 is shadow strike plus scorpion wire basically, great isolating tool. I can live without it, but man that looks fancy.

What do you think about the Shiro legend and how it will affect us thieves? I can only hope they don’t have crazy burst and are more attrition based. Kinda doubt it though, given the consistent “yeah this seems crazy, but you know, we wanted an assassin kind of feel” comments throughout the video. :/

D/D certainly could use that stunbreak/evade on demand…..

Don’t know how long they can have an energy-based stun break considering our initiative based one got nerfed, then had a cast time added so it wasn’t even a non-stunbreak instant cast.

There was a lot of cool stuff on that and I hope they go as crazy and assassin-y feel for us on the elite spec.

Edit: As a small point of jealousy too, the dark prison assassin skill artwork (gw1) was used as the rollover for one of the skills.

There’s nothing to worry about. All that stuff looks great on paper but I don’t see it stepping on Thieves toes w/o stealth.

I do wish Scorpion Wire was more reliable, it’d be awesome to have an isolation tool that could be used competitively

Shockwave.1230:

I do wish Scorpion Wire was more reliable, it’d be awesome to have an isolation tool that could be used competitively

Waiting for them to make it a reverse shadowshot with a 0.25 second stun at the end.

Dex.6139:

There’s nothing to worry about. All that stuff looks great on paper but I don’t see it stepping on Thieves toes w/o stealth.

Yeah, I don’t think they’ll step on our toes in that regard, though they could step on S/D. Even higher mobility with 3, energy based evade that gives enough endurance for a regular evade besides removing all cc on demand. That would be like making flanking strike give back 25 endurance (based on cost vs regen for each class) and letting sword 2 stun break again.

To be frank, if we got this Shiro legend as our elite spec, I would have been perfectly fine with that.

Best part about this is you’ll be doing all this ninja kitten wearing heavy armor lolololol

The part that makes me sad isn’t Shiro itself, it’s how easy it was to put the weapon swap button and an extra main hand and off hand weapons when people started crying.

I remember during the development days, everyone that wanted to play Thief was asking for an offhand sword, or a rifle, or something, and here we are, literally the least versatile profession in the game, and that’s including the no-weapon-swap professions that have access to other forms of versatility.

I wish with the expansion instead of exclusive weapons for specializations everyone would get a few weapons and this could be used to give the Thief a couple more to close the gap with the other professions.

Lokheit.7943:

The part that makes me sad isn’t Shiro itself, it’s how easy it was to put the weapon swap button and an extra main hand and off hand weapons when people started crying.

I remember during the development days, everyone that wanted to play Thief was asking for an offhand sword, or a rifle, or something, and here we are, literally the least versatile profession in the game, and that’s including the no-weapon-swap professions that have access to other forms of versatility.

I wish with the expansion instead of exclusive weapons for specializations everyone would get a few weapons and this could be used to give the Thief a couple more to close the gap with the other professions.

Yeah, but then we do have dual skills, which add a bit of diversity. I do wish they’d at least respond to all of the thief issues since the June 23rd patch though. Seriously, I feel like we don’t exist. The Shiro spec just cements that feeling.

Shiro revenant compared to thief is basically the same scenario as when you try to hang out with your friends, but they blow you off and you find that they are hanging out without you. They totally got your text and read it, but they just ignore you.

Anet y u do dis

I think d/p thief could be a counter to the Shiro revanant. From the livestream it seems like the shiro dps ramps up during the fight. The d/p front loaded burst and reset ability should counter that, as they won’t be able to ramp up after we stealth. Plus they won’t be able to use all their juicy mobility skills if they are blinded or we are stealthed, and we can interrupt sword 3 with pistol 4, as sword 3 currently does not have any evasion frames.

The shiro revenant could be the final nail in the coffin of the s/d thief though, since it seems to have a similar playstyle while looking more effective at it. That would ultimately be a plus for thieves who enjoy the s/d playstyle and don’t mind changing professions.

It will ultimately depend on how much dps the shiro revenant puts out. The damage did not look that amazing in the livestream and anet has definitely erred on the underpowered side when it comes to revenant balancing so far. You’d expect the revenant to be at least decent at launch, though anet does weird stuff sometimes.

Rev has no stealth (yet?).

One thing that allows thieves to run super glassy builds in wvw is the easy access to stealth and blinks. I don’t see rev replacing thieves in roaming or spvp.

Going to wait on our elite spec reveal… but yeah, more than likely, cya on the revenant forums boys.

Heavy armor assassin with – more than likely – more health. Oh and did I mention, heavy armor dosn’t have trenchcoats (has their own issues… like iron mini-skirts, last I recall).

Zero Day.2594:

Going to wait on our elite spec reveal… but yeah, more than likely, cya on the revenant forums boys.

Heavy armor assassin with – more than likely – more health. Oh and did I mention, heavy armor dosn’t have trenchcoats (has their own issues… like iron mini-skirts, last I recall).

Revenant is in the mid tier base health. So yeah… I’ll be insulted if thief elite spec isn’t really really good. And might swap my main from thief to revenant. Have you seen those Devastation traits? To me revenant looks like a thief 2.0 with more survivability.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

Also, besides likely having higher HP and armor, a DPS revenant can also swap to Jalis on the fly for extra durability or Ventari for heals. We’ll just have to wait and see what their damage is like, but I’m not optimistic.

Zodryn.4216:

Also, besides likely having higher HP and armor, a DPS revenant can also swap to Jalis on the fly for extra durability or Ventari for heals. We’ll just have to wait and see what their damage is like, but I’m not optimistic.

or that guy that starts with M for condi remove/transfer

thing is though, they wont have the burst or the stealth of thieves – outshining S/D thieves anyway

Tarkan.5609:

Zodryn.4216:

Also, besides likely having higher HP and armor, a DPS revenant can also swap to Jalis on the fly for extra durability or Ventari for heals. We’ll just have to wait and see what their damage is like, but I’m not optimistic.

or that guy that starts with M for condi remove/transfer

thing is though, they wont have the burst or the stealth of thieves – outshining S/D thieves anyway

out shining S/D? in what way? does it have vigor? 50% vigor effectiveness increase?
spammable evade on weapon set? boon rip?ignore immobilize? reduced chill cripple?

have you ever played a s/s warrior? yup, that’s what it’s like, except it’s power
and has no endure pain no zerker stance.

the only thing that looks like a s/d thief is the roll back.

Tarkan.5609:

Zodryn.4216:

Also, besides likely having higher HP and armor, a DPS revenant can also swap to Jalis on the fly for extra durability or Ventari for heals. We’ll just have to wait and see what their damage is like, but I’m not optimistic.

or that guy that starts with M for condi remove/transfer

thing is though, they wont have the burst or the stealth of thieves – outshining S/D thieves anyway

You dont need the burst of thieves anymore you got mesmers.

Sure, take Jade Winds, but give stealth, no cooldowns and blinks. Oh and Basilisk Venom, that is actually better and impossible to avoid.

Also
Chilled to the bone! (Reaper) – stun 2 seconds, chill for 12 seconds, resistance 2 seconds
Jade Winds – stun 3 seconds
Give Necro Chilled to the bone! and nobody blinks an eye, but give Revenant Jade Winds and everyone loses their mind.

Kidel.2057:

Sure, take Jade Winds, but give stealth, no cooldowns and blinks. Oh and Basilisk Venom, that is actually better and impossible to avoid.

Also
Chilled to the bone! (Reaper) – stun 2 seconds, chill for 12 seconds, resistance 2 seconds
Jade Winds – stun 3 seconds
Give Necro Chilled to the bone! and nobody blinks an eye, but give Revenant Jade Winds and everyone loses their mind.

I already replied to this in the JW thread, but basilisk venom is avoidable. Any kind of invuln, block, evade, blurr etc will completely negate it. It’s really just a 1s stun with a 1s cast time and 40s cooldown, which sucks for an elite. The only benefit is it can be pre cast.

On the Necro boards and on the Guardian boards people insist a Revenant will replace each of them as they are “better” at doing what either of those classes do.

I kind of think we need to wait and see before jumping to that conclusion with the Shiro legend as it relates to the thief.

Revenant replacing Guardian, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Mallyx actually worth something in condition management, AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

babazhook.6805:

On the Necro boards and on the Guardian boards people insist a Revenant will replace each of them as they are “better” at doing what either of those classes do.

I kind of think we need to wait and see before jumping to that conclusion with the Shiro legend as it relates to the thief.

Thieves will always have something revs do not…..the ability to be nerfed every single patch.

Take that Revs!!

Kidel.2057:

Revenant replacing Guardian, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Mallyx actually worth something in condition management, AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

They already got amazing buffs after the revenant weekend. It seems like they really want all aspects of the class to be viable. Comparatively, we’ve barely heard anything from the devs about thief since last month. Don’t laugh too soon.

Zodryn.4216:

Kidel.2057:

Revenant replacing Guardian, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Mallyx actually worth something in condition management, AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

They already got amazing buffs after the revenant weekend. It seems like they really want all aspects of the class to be viable. Comparatively, we’ve barely heard anything from the devs about thief since last month. Don’t laugh too soon.

Mallyx doesn’t transfer conditions. Just a 2s copy. And you get 2s of resistance even if you copy 2 hours of cripple from allies.
Revenant has nowhere the same survivability Guardian has. No active defense, no protection. Also nowhere close to the same support Guardian provides.
Revenant has less damage and dies easily. Even factoring Shiro.

Necro are kitten because of leech skills, but actually revenant has only 1 good, the healing skill. Everything else only works under special conditions (like attack from side) or giving up 150 ferocity trait (not happening, sorry).

Plus warriors have heavy armor, gs, shouts, signets, 20k hp. Does it mean that guardians and necromancers are useless?
Did you hear some Warrior/Guardian rage because reapers got GS and shouts? Lol.

Being able to emulate a class with another one is one of the main principles of this game.

I’m not the one arguing that they’ll replace guardian, and I don’t think they’ll replace thief, but if Anet makes them strong enough in each respective legend, they can emulate various classes and swap on the fly. They may not match a guard for durability, but if they can compete with a S/D thiefs dps by using Shiro and then come even a bit close to guardian sustain by swapping to Jalis, things will be pretty interesting.

2s of basilisk venom and shadowstep? No please.
That would destroy pvp.

BV is 1s stun because it basically cannot be avoided, and allows the thief to burst you.
JW is actually pretty easy to avoid and Revenant can’t burst because of its high energy cost (and Revenant does pretty low damage already).

Higher risk? Higher reward. Thief risks nothing. Apply venom, hide in stealth, bam. Even if 1 hit is blocked you get a second chance.

So what are you suggesting?
An instant, ranged 2s stun with 2 chances to be applied? From stealth? With venom traits?

Sure, a thief 100% stunning a player for 2 seconds. Basically you can only survive if you are a soldier warrior/guardian.

What then? Aoe?
Sure, ranged instant aoe stun. Not op at all.

JW is aoe and lasts 3s because
1) is used by a weak class with no customization
2) has no traits
3) has a huge slow telegraph
4) has no range
5) has a huge energy cost
6) only 1 hit, meaning that if you miss you’re screwed, can’t even tun away since your impossible odds will have no energy to be used.

@ Kidel: How can it not be avoided? It shows up on the buff bar right next to boons and blocks, blinds, and evades all use up the charges.

What am I suggesting? Basilisk venom stays exactly the same except that it becomes instant cast like all the other venoms.

Off topic: You keep saying that a 2 second stun would kill people, but that’s what stunbreaks and autoprocs are for, getting out of stuns or defending against the attacks while stunned.

lighter.2708:

Tarkan.5609:

Zodryn.4216:

Also, besides likely having higher HP and armor, a DPS revenant can also swap to Jalis on the fly for extra durability or Ventari for heals. We’ll just have to wait and see what their damage is like, but I’m not optimistic.

or that guy that starts with M for condi remove/transfer

thing is though, they wont have the burst or the stealth of thieves – outshining S/D thieves anyway

out shining S/D? in what way? does it have vigor? 50% vigor effectiveness increase?
spammable evade on weapon set? boon rip?ignore immobilize? reduced chill cripple?

have you ever played a s/s warrior? yup, that’s what it’s like, except it’s power
and has no endure pain no zerker stance.

the only thing that looks like a s/d thief is the roll back.

That’s not S/D, that’s Acro, one of the worst trait lines in the game atm. If you go Acro on S/D you deal almost no damage.

Lokheit.7943:

The part that makes me sad isn’t Shiro itself, it’s how easy it was to put the weapon swap button and an extra main hand and off hand weapons when people started crying.

This is only because Anet wants to sell more pre-orders