Guild Wars 2

It’s been well over a year now that this trait has been labeled “broken” by the Thief community.

Feedback about it has been consistent and regular. It is the single biggest source of frustration when playing a Thief and after rage-quitting my play session tonight just because of it I’ve just about had it.

How can such a simple fix be ignored for so long?

Any other MMO developer I have ever given money to would have fixed a class-killing, problematic trait like Last Refuge 2 months after it being reported, tops. And yet here we are, after countless rounds of buffs and nerfs to who knows what that effectively changes nothing but NO CAN GET ROUND TO FIXING THIS BULLkitten TRAIT?

Really?

kittenmit guys. You’re costing me what little hair I have left on my head.

I was fighting a warrior today right. So, there we are each about half health, a cast CnD right before it hits the warrior hits me with a hammer autoattack (hambow is ophee), procing LR RIGHT before CnD landed causing me to do an emergency and immediate Shadowstep away, turn around and /threaten @ the warrior to make it seem like they got lucky. The sad part is, I know that story was probably the single most best thing you’ve read in your life, I know, but it happens at least thrice a day and it’s getting annoying. Yeah it’s saved me, but times like that, it saves my opponent. Like it may sound OP, but I’m desperate, make LR its own stealth like how a mesmer can still use decoy to stealth when revealed, at least I believe they can

That trait kills me more times than it saves me.

I’m not going to be dramatic but I agree it’s a problem.

The trait makes me very unhappy.

Last Refuge is one of the main reasons I quit thief, dying because of it is probably the most infuriating thing I have ever experienced in a videogame.

I just refuse to spec into that line. Broken is broken.

hahahaha PANIC BUTTON PRESS PRESS well it is been i year over and you still didn’t memorized that you don’t need to do nothing at that point the trait will do it for you,it saved my life 100 times LOL

Wait, what?

Anyone want to try to make sense of Duka?

swinsk.6410:

I’m not going to be dramatic but I agree it’s a problem.

Glad that there’s at least one person in this thread that can keep LR in perspective.

For everyone else here, please read this, thank you.

Lucky Shot.7650:

Last Refuge is one of the main reasons I quit thief, dying because of it is probably the most infuriating thing I have ever experienced in a videogame.

Should of tried not using SA trait line ^^

But yes for a minor trait it’s terrible (can’t swap it).

NinjaEd.3946:

But yes for a minor trait it’s terrible (can’t swap it).

It’s not terrible, it’s just frustrating.

The best case for Last Refuge is actually very powerful for a minor trait, it’s just that the worst case feels really bad when it happens. The solution here is to either tweak the trait to curtail the bad stuff (both for yourself and for other nearby Thieves), or replace it with something else entirely that’s stealth-based (it would be a good place to put Patience).

I’d say I’m about 70/30 on the getting killed/saved ratio with LR.

/signed

Yeah, no one said it’s a bad trait per se. It’s just sooooooooooooooooo frustrating when you die constantly because of it.

Incoming damage is unpredictable and you cannot possibly account for when Last Refuge will procc.

I know ANet acknowledged it as problematic, but it’s been “problematic” for a year now and nothing has changed. And we all know how cheap talk is at ANet.

What’s the problema with LR? I’ve been playing a thief for 2 months, and I swear I didn’t notice anything.

Thanks!

^ Since it stealths you when you aren’t necessarily expecting it to — like in the middle of an attack chain — that means you can be stuck with Revealed status (and thus unable to stealth) at a really bad moment. Revealed when you are at <25% health is usually a Bad Situation™.

It’s also annoying for other Thieves that you might be fighting with, because the Blinding Powder is a point-blank AOE that can catch them as well.

Oh, I see. That’s explains a lot. Ty, sir!

NinjaEd.3946:

Lucky Shot.7650:

Last Refuge is one of the main reasons I quit thief, dying because of it is probably the most infuriating thing I have ever experienced in a videogame.

Should of tried not using SA trait line ^^

But yes for a minor trait it’s terrible (can’t swap it).

Oh, yes I did. I played d/d burst, and I liked Engi’s Static Discharge better. Also tried s/d and s/p. Problem is, I felt naked without condition cleanse from shadow arts and thieves don’t have any other reliable way to deal with conditions. Yes you can shadow return, but that only cleanses one condition and that can be a problem when you have multiple conditions that “shield” the one you want to remove.

Lucky Shot.7650:

Oh, yes I did. I played d/d burst, and I liked Engi’s Static Discharge better. Also tried s/d and s/p. Problem is, I felt naked without condition cleanse from shadow arts and thieves don’t have any other reliable way to deal with conditions. Yes you can shadow return, but that only cleanses one condition and that can be a problem when you have multiple conditions that “shield” the one you want to remove.

Nonsense. If you are S/x, try adding any of the following:

1. Lyssa Runes with Basilisk Venom
2. Saffron-scented Poultry soup + Withdraw
3. Shadowstep
4. Signet of Agility
5. Pain Response (20 Acrobatics)

Those are ordered roughly from most to least effective for multiple conditions.

I’m sorry, this is a L2P issue. Last refuge isn’t broken, it does exactly what it was intended to do. The first time you hit 25% hp in a fight, you will cast an automatic blinding powder. If it goes off when you didn’t expect then you clearly are not paying attention to the fight or your HP, which is why it surprises you.

If you’re going full zerker, then you’re going to have around roughly 11-12k HP. That means when you’re hit below 3k HP the trait is going to go off. If you keep track of your HP, like you should, this trait can help you a lot as it gives you a free stealth and blind while also doubling as a blast finisher. It’s a free utility that you can plan around in a fight. This trait has saved my kitten more times than I can count.

Loki.8793:

I’m sorry, this is a L2P issue. Last refuge isn’t broken, it does exactly what it was intended to do.

It’s not up to you. Devs have stated that they don’t like the way that it can occasionally punish players unintentionally.

Interceptor.2653:

Loki.8793:

I’m sorry, this is a L2P issue. Last refuge isn’t broken, it does exactly what it was intended to do.

It’s not up to you. Devs have stated that they don’t like the way that it can occasionally punish players unintentionally.

Why should players who understand how the trait works and use it to their advantage be punished because other players don’t want to take the time to look at their HP bar during the fight?

If the developers want to change the trait, then fine, they will eventually. However, the only reason players feel like they get punished by the trait is because they enter a fight without even considering that it may go off. They completely forget that it’s there. That’s not ANET’s fault, that’s the players’.

It’s the same thing as saying retaliation is broken because I occasionally kill myself by hitting too hard when my HP was low, and I didn’t notice my opponent had retaliation up. It’s clear as day when retaliation is up, and it’s clear as day when your HP is around 3k. Just because people don’t notice it doesn’t mean it’s bad design.

Loki.8793:

I’m sorry, this is a L2P issue. Last refuge isn’t broken, it does exactly what it was intended to do. The first time you hit 25% hp in a fight, you will cast an automatic blinding powder. If it goes off when you didn’t expect then you clearly are not paying attention to the fight or your HP, which is why it surprises you.

If you’re going full zerker, then you’re going to have around roughly 11-12k HP. That means when you’re hit below 3k HP the trait is going to go off. If you keep track of your HP, like you should, this trait can help you a lot as it gives you a free stealth and blind while also doubling as a blast finisher. It’s a free utility that you can plan around in a fight. This trait has saved my kitten more times than I can count.

You can be with over half of your health and get bursted to less then 25 % in a blink of an eye and it will most likelly happen mid CnD cast or when attacking something. That will activate LR and will cause revealed.
LR has internal cooldown that has no indication in your UI, means you cant track it in longer fights.
Running idle with 30 % hp hoping that it will activate instead of stealthing yourself is same as running around with bullzeye on your head. You can easilly get one shoted in that situation.
Any ability that you can’t control yourself is bad. LR is worse, since it doesn’t work with revealed mechanics.
So no its not L2P issue.

Karolis.4261:

You can be with over half of your health and get bursted to less then 25 % in a blink of an eye and it will most likelly happen mid CnD cast or when attacking something. That will activate LR and will cause revealed.
LR has internal cooldown that has no indication in your UI, means you cant track it in longer fights.
Running idle with 30 % hp hoping that it will activate instead of stealthing yourself is same as running around with bullzeye on your head. You can easilly get one shoted in that situation.
Any ability that you can’t control yourself is bad. LR is worse, since it doesn’t work with revealed mechanics.
So no its not L2P issue.

You say any ability that you can’t control is bad, but ANET seems to hold a different philosophy, as all the powerful builds right now incorporate some level of passives into them, which is exactly why condition classes and warriors are so broken right now. Though I agree, I prefer skills and aspects that promote skillful and active play rather than passive. However, not all passives are bad. Traits like LR activate under certain conditions, and observant and skilled players can make use of those conditions on a consistent basis. While these traits are passive, there is also a skillful dynamic associated with them that can be taken advantage of.

It’s not so much as running around with low HP hoping to be hit for just the right amount to trigger LR as it is just being aware that it will trigger the next time you are hit, so you should play a bit more defensively rather than offensively. This trait works well against conditions, which happens to be 80% of the current meta right now. And against physical damage classes like warriors, all the attacks that would do that significant amount of damage is telegraphed. There aren’t that many situations where you are fighting someone and they can then do over 60% of your hp with no tell of it. The only profession that would be possible of that is backstab thieves. But the only time that thief can do that kind of damage with no warning is in stealth, so you likely won’t be attacking to ruin LR when your HP does fall below 25%.

The nature of thief is they take heavy hits real quick so 25% isn’t really in “our control”. We can get hit by another thief or Mesmer for a quick burst, that’s not something we see coming (both can stealth). LR isn’t a L2p issue, it’s a poor mechanic we can’t control. Most passives are meant to help the player our like if you get cc you gain stealth or stability, etc. WE get a proc for stealth which in a game that has a “revealed” mechanic kind of is bad.

Thief is ALL about positional awareness and not being able to control every single part of that is terrible especially from a trait line dedicated to stealth. I agree with whoever posted it earlier, the minor trait should be stealth on steal so it can be controlled. I hate passives as a thief, I need things I can control and set up not counters for kitten I couldn’t predict if I trained my life for it.

Hmmm! I looove Last Refuge! Calculate 25% of your total HP and when you see it coming just wait! or if you’re D/P then drop a blinding powder so you can area stealth when last refuge pops!

Snuffles.3298:

Hmmm! I looove Last Refuge! Calculate 25% of your total HP and when you see it coming just wait! or if you’re D/P then drop a blinding powder so you can area stealth when last refuge pops!

Yes and wear full sentinels gear for that in order not to get hit for 5 k from nowhere and die instead of activating LR.

Loki, no one is saying it’s never useful. It can be situationally useful, but it’s not a done deal – it’s not always useful, and it’s not something you can turn on or off like caltrops on dodge.

The traits that aren’t selectable are intended to be 100% positive things.

This isn’t. It should be a minor trait that can be selected or not, not a must-take for the whole tree.

Loki.8793:

Why should players who understand how the trait works and use it to their advantage be punished because other players don’t want to take the time to look at their HP bar during the fight?

I understand how it works, but it “rewards” you for being passive in a fight. I should be using my abilities, not waiting or expecting to get hit so that LR procs.

Loki.8793:

Why should players who understand how the trait works and use it to their advantage be punished because other players don’t want to take the time to look at their HP bar during the fight?

Why is it an “either/or” situation? Surely, ANET can find a solution while still keeping both sides of the fence happy.

The solution, I would think would be to add the option to activate or deactivate minor traits, so that we have the option to turn off this abysmally bad designed trait.

Doug.4930:

The solution, I would think would be to add the option to activate or deactivate minor traits, so that we have the option to turn off this abysmally bad designed trait.

Yea it needs to pop a shadow field or something so that the stealth would be voluntary.

It’s still unclear if this trait has been fixed in the upcoming “feature patch”.

If not, this must be the most ignorant and self-absorbed MMO developer I have ever witnessed.

When I noticed they changed some minor traits for Necromancers I got excited "Yes, I’m sure they changed Shadow Arts minor to not kill myself!…NOPE. It could even give that -50% dmg for like 3 seconds and call it a day, poor man endure pain. That was the only change I was wanting to see and once again I’ll be leaving disappointed. I hope the next balance patch is not in 6 months.

It actually gets a bit better, sorry less disasterous, with all the revealed buffs in the new grandmaster traits.