Guild Wars 2

It isn’t uncommon for Cloak and Dagger and Last Refuge to trip over each other. When a thief drops below 25% HP during the Cloak and Dagger animation, Last Refuge triggers first, and stealth is immediately cancelled as Cloak and Dagger strikes the target and inflicts damage, leaving the critically wounded thief in Revealed status. This is nothing short of game breaking, and can totally change the outcome of a fight, especially in close duels and solo sPvP/WvW encounters against multiple players.

As a suggestion, I think it would be really great if the system could be tweaked to force priority for Cloak and Dagger (and Black Powder -> Heartseeker combo) over Last Refuge to avoid this problem in the future.

There are forms of stealth in game that do NOT cause reveal by dealing dmg but do simply end. Norn’s Snowleopard Form prowl skill stealths and ends when you deal dmg but it doesn’t apply reveal. No doubt a remnant from before reveal found its way into the game. Im not sure if that could be somehow applied in this scenario.

It seems like it wouldn’t be particularly difficult to implement a general check for input – “If [input from (default keybinding) 1-10] is active, wait until input is not active.” Maybe have it put up a “Hey, Last Refuge is ready to pop” indicator.

I think what they should do with “X amount of health triggers this” abilities is have an indicator off to the side when you reach that threshold, then you can choose to activate it with a keybind. However, I think that Last refuge should go up to a higher threshold for this to work, maybe 33%. This could also work with Pain Response, since it does proc even when you have no condis, and you can choose when you would want to clear it.

All good thoughts. I’m personally of the opinion it should have priority in whatever queue they use to prioritize ability effects, so I wholeheartedly agree with Anymras’s sentiment and wish they would implement a simple akin to what he suggested.

As far as forms of stealth that don’t cause reveal, while I appreciate the thought and the effort to establish a work around, the core issue here really needs to be fixed. The very notion of losing a utility slot as a workaround for clumsy implementation of an afterthought mechanic is nothing less of hateful to me.

nothing worse than pain response going off when u dont need it to
or applying revealed to your self with last refuge …

idk i have never liked automatic activation traits or traits with timed cool downs because u can not see the cool down

it would be nice for them to be more reliable

alchemyst.2165:

I think what they should do with “X amount of health triggers this” abilities is have an indicator off to the side when you reach that threshold, then you can choose to activate it with a keybind. However, I think that Last refuge should go up to a higher threshold for this to work, maybe 33%. This could also work with Pain Response, since it does proc even when you have no condis, and you can choose when you would want to clear it.

I really like this idea, since it takes the passivity out of that brand of passive trait.

Not sure it’s programmatically possible without a lot of really funky coding, as events are likely handled as interrupts (programming term), which absolutely MUST finish before executing anything else.

Frankly, I don’t see why the trait just can’t be removed. It reveals in so many ways and in my honest opinion, is a really frustrating and annoying crutch skill which saves far too many baddies and kills a lot of better players.

I wouldn’t be surprised if ANet got Last Refuge mixed up with Concealed Defeat. Wouldn’t it be better and make much more sense to drop Smoke Screen when your health reaches 25% or use Blinding Powder when you go down to give your teammates a few seconds to get you?

It’d be really nice to know if the devs even have this on their radar. This issue can be incredibly game breaking for those traited for shadow arts.

There’s been countless threads on this. They just don’t care.

Kadin.2356:

There’s been countless threads on this. They just don’t care.

That’s not an acceptable answer. They need to address this.

Reaven.3958:

Kadin.2356:

There’s been countless threads on this. They just don’t care.

That’s not an acceptable answer. They need to address this.

They’re not going to. This is easily the 20th thread to bring up this issue. They’re always on the first page of the thief forums for a week minimum; still, nothing is done.

Ignoring the fact that ANet has yet to fix the issue, here’s the simplest, most elegant solution that will solve everyone’s issues with LR.

Switch LR to grant “Concealed” instead of Stealth. “Concealed” makes you invisible but does not toggle stealth skills (which means no backstab, sneak attack, etc), and Does not trigger revealed upon attacking.

There you go, LR is fixed. The only question that remains is do “on stealth” SA traits trigger on “Concealed”. This would require playtesting, but even if Anet defaulted to “No”, LR would still be better in this form than it is now.

Or just remove the trait completely since it does more harm than good? Rework it to some snare removal like “lose all movement impairing conditions” or whatever.

by the time this will get fixed gw3 will come out heh

Cynz.9437:

by the time this will get fixed gw3 will come out heh

The bad thing is, that this is actually very true.

Justine.6351:

There are forms of stealth in game that do NOT cause reveal by dealing dmg but do simply end. Norn’s Snowleopard Form prowl skill stealths and ends when you deal dmg but it doesn’t apply reveal. No doubt a remnant from before reveal found its way into the game. Im not sure if that could be somehow applied in this scenario.

It couldn’t. Even if last refuge produced a stealth hybrid that did not cause reveal upon dealing damage, the issue is more so the thief being actually visible. You can’t stealth and then use a CnD to maintain stealth, the CnD would just break you out of the previous regardless of reveal being applied or not you’re down 6 initiative and exposed.

Last refuge should just change entirely to something the player can control, thief does not do well with effects going off on their own terms(improvisation…). Could change it to temporarily swap your F1 (steal) to a smoke bomb at the given threshold. Would have no cast time like steal, grant you stealth when you want it (3 seconds; 4 with meld with shadows) and be gravy.

Technically it already has no cast time, all this would be doing is giving you the say in when it goes off. Could give this a ~5 second window to use or it expires and goes on the ICD to prevent chain stealth abuse.

Seriously, I don’t understand why the devs haven’t even commented on this. I can’t count the number of times I’ve had last refuge go off in the middle of another attack and totally screw me. If nothing else, can the devs please make it a major trait and put something less offensive like Shadow’s Embrace in as the minor trait instead? That would be AWESOME.

Reaven.3958:

Seriously, I don’t understand why the devs haven’t even commented on this.

They have, just a long time ago. They actually said they want it to grant stealth even though everyone and their mother knows it doesn’t work that way half the time.

Reaven.3958:

Seriously, I don’t understand why the devs haven’t even commented on this. I can’t count the number of times I’ve had last refuge go off in the middle of another attack and totally screw me. If nothing else, can the devs please make it a major trait and put something less offensive like Shadow’s Embrace in as the minor trait instead? That would be AWESOME.

The main reason is that there’s not many Thief specs Shadow Arts, thus it’s nothing they should be concerned about.

Compare to the number of players playing Warriors, thus Anet’s focus are on Warriors.

Give it 1-2 years — you’ll stop caring about it and move on.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Give it 1-2 years — you’ll stop caring about it and move on.

The game will be dead by then :P

Anymras.5729:

It seems like it wouldn’t be particularly difficult to implement a general check for input – “If [input from (default keybinding) 1-10] is active, wait until input is not active.” Maybe have it put up a “Hey, Last Refuge is ready to pop” indicator.

amen!

or they can just give us a toggle option, to turn it off when we want to

This thread again =P.

There has always been an easy solution that has never been applied:

Last Refuge:
Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches a certain threshold and become immune to reveal for 1s.
Health threshold: 25%
Immune to reveal: 1s
Removes reveal.

No checks necessary, just a couple of minor additions.

szshou.2193:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Give it 1-2 years — you’ll stop caring about it and move on.

The game will be dead by then :P

Exactly!

I don’t play any SA-Thief-Builds anymore (WvW: D/D, SB 26006) but I remember how annoying that trait was
anything that anet changes about this trait could only make it better, lets let this thread stay among the first few on the thief forum

Welp, just thought I’d follow up and say that a) this still happens on an incredibly frequent basis, almost always resulting in death, b) anet hasn’t said anything about it or given the impression they are aware or care about the issue. Furthermore, the related ‘auto-attack triggers randomly in stealth’ issue is also still alive and well.

Please anet, can we at least get a comment. Do you know, do you care? I’d at least like to know if you intend to fix this before I invest any further in this game..

I don’t really care if they change it or not. I just want the condition cleansing better-accessible to all builds, seeing as the rest of SA is just either a crutch or for venoms (which is unfair to VShare builds).

I’ve always hated this trait. It’s gotten me killed more than it has ever saved me. I love the idea of it turning into some sort of skill that would pop up that you could choose whether or not to activate it. The way it is now, i’d rather just not have it at all. Hell, just making it give aegis or regen instead would be infinitely better than what it does now.

It’s the same reason i never use Hard to Catch. it’s just as bad and often does more harm than good. I quickly learned how terrible that trait was when i got teleported out of a stun and right into another opponent’s aoe and died a meaningless death. Never touched that trait again.

Hard to catch would be good if it had the little targeting thing pop up and let you choose where you wanted to teleport to. Right now it’s the same as Last Refuge, and will get you killed most of the time cuz it activates when you don’t want it to and you have no control over it.

I’m still hoping they aren’t saying anything b/c it’s already batched into the other fixes being dropped with the expansion. That could just be me being optimistic though ;p