Guild Wars 2

The traits that stealth you should remove the “Revealed.” debuff when they proc.

That makes sense, but the blinding powder when <25% health should still proc.

I think this might be the first time I agree with you on a suggestion.

I concur.

/15 char

That wouldnt actually fix it. It would need to remove revealed, block you from being able to get revealed applied again for 1 second, stop you from being able to backstab for 1 second, and stop your auto attack when it activates to actually fix the trait and make it work as intended.

The best suggestion I ever heard, was to change it so it drops black powder at 25% HP instead of stealth.

I’d say it has to remove revealed, stealth you, and cancel your current attack (therefore automatically stealthing you and preventing revealed).

I think they should just remove it and give us something else like infusion of shadows etc. as the minor trait.

+1 for posting a suggestion that isn’t OP.

The only times Last refuge kittens me up is when i use cloak and dagger the same time as it pops, which takes me out of stealth and makes me revealed and often killed in a bad situation. I dont see how this would fix that.

I am assuming you mean that, if you have reveal debuff and last refuge pop, you still go stealth.

Is it possible that a good, not over the top balanced suggestion came out of Daecollo? It is!

So long as the stealth gained from Last Refuge can cause revealed, I’d rather not have the trait at all. I don’t care what it does so long as it doesn’t actively try to kill me

Last Refuge is a trait that could have been removed… Although it has saved me those rare times when I’m out of initiative and skills on cool down, it’s pretty much useless. Last Refuge should work regardless of current stealth state, and it should cancel any action the thief is trying to do. The worst thing is casting CnD and then see LF proc, and I’m dead :/

I don’t think people are thinking through the “It should cancel the current action and grant me stealth” thing. While Last refuge would undeniably be better if it did that, it would still be broken – I don’t want the game deciding to cancel what I’m doing for any reason. Sure, it would be helpful if I was about to use a skill that would reveal me, but what if I’m in the middle of using a skill that’s going to end the fight?

While that situation is rare, I still don’t consider any situation where the game decides it’s going to cancel the action I chose as “beneficial”. Last refuge should be changed to something beneficial that has no costs/penalties/drawbacks associated with it.

This still won’t fix the rather common scenario of LR triggering right before an attack lands (i.e. a C&D, or shortbow shot), in which case the attack will trigger revealed after LR triggers.

Best solution I can think of is still to swap any of the other Shadow Arts adept major traits with it.

should be something straightly passive, like “stealth lasts (much) longer while under 25% health” or “recharge healing skill on 25% health”

It would make that minor trait good, and worth it to take it.

Kaon.7192:

This still won’t fix the rather common scenario of LR triggering right before an attack lands (i.e. a C&D, or shortbow shot), in which case the attack will trigger revealed after LR triggers.

Best solution I can think of is still to swap any of the other Shadow Arts adept major traits with it.

It should probably be switched with shadow protector – 10s of regen sounds like alot on paper, but it doesn’t fire if the target already has regen, which makes it a good choice for a 5 point trait.

Shadow protector also already has really strong competition in the rest of the SA tree, so while it’s not underpowered, it’s definitely below the power threshold of other trait options in the line.

Swap it with shadow’s embrace if you must. anything else would be underpowered compared to its current state for a build that utilizes it.

Excalibur.9748:

Swap it with shadow’s embrace if you must. anything else would be underpowered compared to its current state for a build that utilizes it.

Shadows embrace feels kind of strong – that’s considered one of the “Required” traits for SA, and its a rather powerful one.Giving players another major trait they can take (since one of their bread and butter traits was moved to minor) seems like too much. I can’t say for sure it would be OP, but at first glance it certainly feels so.

Shadow protector is a good choice specifically because (IMO) it’s powerful enough to be useful, it just exists among other traits that overshadow it.

evilapprentice.6379:

Excalibur.9748:

Swap it with shadow’s embrace if you must. anything else would be underpowered compared to its current state for a build that utilizes it.

Shadows embrace feels kind of strong – that’s considered one of the “Required” traits for SA, and its a rather powerful one.Giving players another major trait they can take (since one of their bread and butter traits was moved to minor) seems like too much. I can’t say for sure it would be OP, but at first glance it certainly feels so.

Shadow protector is a good choice specifically because (IMO) it’s powerful enough to be useful, it just exists among other traits that overshadow it.

shadow protector is certainly decent for a stealth heavy build but it will not have the potential to really save you like last refuge currently does. shadow’s embrace is the only trait that can potentially have the same effect.

Excalibur.9748:

evilapprentice.6379:

Excalibur.9748:

Swap it with shadow’s embrace if you must. anything else would be underpowered compared to its current state for a build that utilizes it.

Shadows embrace feels kind of strong – that’s considered one of the “Required” traits for SA, and its a rather powerful one.Giving players another major trait they can take (since one of their bread and butter traits was moved to minor) seems like too much. I can’t say for sure it would be OP, but at first glance it certainly feels so.

Shadow protector is a good choice specifically because (IMO) it’s powerful enough to be useful, it just exists among other traits that overshadow it.

shadow protector is certainly decent for a stealth heavy build but it will not have the potential to really save you like last refuge currently does. shadow’s embrace is the only trait that can potentially have the same effect.

If we’re limiting ourselves to something that will save you in a pinch (like LR is designed to do), just have LR give the thief 2-3s of automatic evade at 25% – there is literally no stealth based solution that will always work – either it will at times screw the thief, or at times be OP.

How about making it an entirely separate form of stealth like the mesmer skill Decoy that is not affected by revealed and doesn’t (I think?) cause it? That would solve all our problems as far as I can tell.

yski.7642:

How about making it an entirely separate form of stealth like the mesmer skill Decoy that is not affected by revealed and doesn’t (I think?) cause it? That would solve all our problems as far as I can tell.

You’ll run into situations when you BS someone, and in less than 2 seconds, get this form of stealth (allowing a second BS in half the time or less than the usual revealed timer would allow you) – I can’t really speak to how OP this would be (from a scale of “not at all” to “obviously”) but the community would be in an absolute uproar about it.

style.6173:

I think this might be the first time I agree with you on a suggestion.

Then what would be the point in revealing shot and stealth trap in wvw?

evilapprentice.6379:

Excalibur.9748:

evilapprentice.6379:

Excalibur.9748:

Swap it with shadow’s embrace if you must. anything else would be underpowered compared to its current state for a build that utilizes it.

Shadows embrace feels kind of strong – that’s considered one of the “Required” traits for SA, and its a rather powerful one.Giving players another major trait they can take (since one of their bread and butter traits was moved to minor) seems like too much. I can’t say for sure it would be OP, but at first glance it certainly feels so.

Shadow protector is a good choice specifically because (IMO) it’s powerful enough to be useful, it just exists among other traits that overshadow it.

shadow protector is certainly decent for a stealth heavy build but it will not have the potential to really save you like last refuge currently does. shadow’s embrace is the only trait that can potentially have the same effect.

If we’re limiting ourselves to something that will save you in a pinch (like LR is designed to do), just have LR give the thief 2-3s of automatic evade at 25% – there is literally no stealth based solution that will always work – either it will at times screw the thief, or at times be OP.

im with this idea, 100%, i cant tell you how many times ive been screwed in the kitten by stealthing at 25% while my cnd is going off, or stealthing at 25% while my auto attack is flying through the air, only to reveal me when it lands, sure its saved me a couple times, but that was when i was stunned and not able to do anything, then at the end of the stun i dipped just under 25% and got stealth, other than that ive died many times on account of that trait :/

Just remove the trait or move it up to the 10 point (no longer a minor trait).

Too much you would need to do to make it not proc revealed. Just let people choose if they want this thing in its current form or not and put in a different trait for the minor (personally idc what it is as I HATE this trait).

Daecollo posting a good, not OP idea yay! (too bad this has been sugested like thousands of times before… but I don’t want to spoil it, let’s see if he keeps the streak)

The problem as others pointed is that it should also cancel you current attack (and if a projectile is flying it will be very hard). Maybe something like 1 second inmunity to revealed to avoid that… though it could cause bugs if they start touching the code for stealth just for this.

But the best solution as others said is to simply remove it.

Something like putting Infusion of Shadow as the 5pt trait, with just 1 initiative gain instead of 2 would be good.

As you don’t consume a trait option and only need 5 pts the amount gained is reducted to compensate, which in one hand gives you a lot more of freedom to pick stealth traits (if you had doubts between initiative gain or condition removal from that tier… now you can have both!), and on the other, deals a little bit with some cases that might be getting too much benefit from that 2 extra initiative on each stealth

It also goes in line with working with the profession mechanic on the minor traits, like stealing to gain initiative, criting for initiative or giving poison to steal, and most importantly removes the pain that is Last Refuge from the game without needing programming headaches to stop projectiles already fired from removing your stealth.

So basically:
- You no longer have to worry about Last Refuge.
- If you had Infusion of Shadow in your build, you will get 1 initiative when stealthed instead of 2, but as a compensation now you have a free trait slot to increase your build effectiveness.
- If your build didn’t include it, you just won 1 initaitve everytime you stealth and no longer fear for Last Refuge.

If someone really reaaaaaally misses Last Refuge, it can be an optional trait replacing IoS position… though it would be better if it was destroyed and a new useful trait created to replace it