Guild Wars 2

Okay so here I go once more.
Fix last refuge or kittening remove it. Its broken since launch and you don’t do anything about it, but keep deleting complaints.
Can ban me right now (again) cause i will remake this thread every kitten day. Just for lols and giggles.

Make it so that it triggers when you hit 25% health, not struck after 25%. And they should just make it so that an icon pops up on screen and you can choose to use blinding powder, rather than it just randomly popping. That way even if you’re not focusing on HP you can still use it.

Here we go again…

Last Refuge has saved my life more times than I can count. When I’m out of cooldowns, out of endurance, low on Initiative, Last Refuge has trigged and helped me escape certain doom and come back for revenge/flee to safety!

As a matter of fact, I was grateful when Last Refuge trigged when two of my friends and I were 3 vs n+1 in EotM. The fight began with 3 v 3 and quickly escalated into us vs. a small zerg. After 15 minutes of fighting, downing players, re-downing players, stomping players, and avoiding the ever increasing odds, I was out of everything. It was Last Refuge that triggered and allowed me to escape unseen behind the Statuary. There I waited for my heal and utilities to be up and reengaged, fighting for another 10 minutes until the friendly zerg arrived.

I’ve played a Thief since launch, its my main. I’ve done every game mode and I love PvP. I consider myself a very good player, capable of 1vMany in WvW and a relentless, situationally-aware opponent in sPvP/tPvP. I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND why everyone is kittens over Last Refuge!

deepwinter.9015:

Here we go again…

Last Refuge has saved my life more times than I can count. When I’m out of cooldowns, out of endurance, low on Initiative, Last Refuge has trigged and helped me escape certain doom and come back for revenge/flee to safety!

As a matter of fact, I was grateful when Last Refuge trigged when two of my friends and I were 3 vs n+1 in EotM. The fight began with 3 v 3 and quickly escalated into us vs. a small zerg. After 15 minutes of fighting, downing players, re-downing players, stomping players, and avoiding the ever increasing odds, I was out of everything. It was Last Refuge that triggered and allowed me to escape unseen behind the Statuary. There I waited for my heal and utilities to be up and reengaged, fighting for another 10 minutes until the friendly zerg arrived.

I’ve played a Thief since launch, its my main. I’ve done every game mode and I love PvP. I consider myself a very good player, capable of 1vMany in WvW and a relentless, situationally-aware opponent in sPvP/tPvP. I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND why everyone is kittens over Last Refuge!

Now count times when it triggered middle CnD or bp+hs cast. In order to use it you must play passively and simply run when you are anywhere near 25% . You can easily get downed while running around like a goose praying for last refuge to pop instead of stealthing up yourself. With thief base HP It can pop even when you are casting CnD while you are at 50% hp for example or even more and get some splash damage. Yes there are times when it saves you when you are already disenaging before you come even close to 25%, but doesn’t change a fact that it does not cooperate with revealed mechanics and removes player choice from the play. Most of SA thieves would take empty spot instead of last refuge anytime.

Karolis.4261:

Now count times when it triggered middle CnD or bp+hs cast. In order to use it you must play passively and simply run when you are anywhere near 25% . You can easily get downed while running around like a goose praying for last refuge to pop instead of stealthing up yourself. With thief base HP It can pop even when you are casting CnD while you are at 50% hp for example or even more and get some splash damage. Yes there are times when it saves you when you are already disenaging before you come even close to 25%, but doesn’t change a fact that it does not cooperate with revealed mechanics and removes player choice from the play. Most of SA thieves would take empty spot instead of last refuge anytime.

In WvW (where I run Shadow Arts) when my health gets anywhere near 40%, I begin falling back. I can only count the number of times Last Refuge has triggered when I was revealed on one hand, and those times were because I was playing aggressively and typically got downed.

40% of 17,000 (my average HP in WvW) is 6,800. I typically Backstab for 8,000-9,000, so I know that at 40% I need to get out and heal up. Because of this playstyle, Last Refuge is not a concern for me until I’m in dire straights.

Sure, it’d be real nice if it ignored the Reveal debuff, but I can’t help but think of that as being exploited in some way. It still causes an AoE Blind, and that’s still good if I’m revealed and trying to get away. In your case (it going off while attempting to CnD), then that’s once again me playing too aggressive. I should have gotten out long before then, so its my fault, not the trait’s.

The thing is, if you play passively all the time you’re gonna kill a lot less things. We want to kill things Also, I always try to CnD before I heal so when i’m trying to CnD to heal when last refuge pops it totally messes me up and I usually die. Even when you’re playing correctly you get punished.

deepwinter.9015:

Karolis.4261:

Now count times when it triggered middle CnD or bp+hs cast. In order to use it you must play passively and simply run when you are anywhere near 25% . You can easily get downed while running around like a goose praying for last refuge to pop instead of stealthing up yourself. With thief base HP It can pop even when you are casting CnD while you are at 50% hp for example or even more and get some splash damage. Yes there are times when it saves you when you are already disenaging before you come even close to 25%, but doesn’t change a fact that it does not cooperate with revealed mechanics and removes player choice from the play. Most of SA thieves would take empty spot instead of last refuge anytime.

In WvW (where I run Shadow Arts) when my health gets anywhere near 40%, I begin falling back. I can only count the number of times Last Refuge has triggered when I was revealed on one hand, and those times were because I was playing aggressively and typically got downed.

40% of 17,000 (my average HP in WvW) is 6,800. I typically Backstab for 8,000-9,000, so I know that at 40% I need to get out and heal up. Because of this playstyle, Last Refuge is not a concern for me until I’m in dire straights.

Sure, it’d be real nice if it ignored the Reveal debuff, but I can’t help but think of that as being exploited in some way. It still causes an AoE Blind, and that’s still good if I’m revealed and trying to get away. In your case (it going off while attempting to CnD), then that’s once again me playing too aggressive. I should have gotten out long before then, so its my fault, not the trait’s.

Trait should not punish player for playing aggressively. Even if i do play aggressively when im low HP I probably doing it for a reason and I might pull it off, and that kill im seeking might win me the whole fight, cause I just took down the biggest threat of enemys group 5 s before he got healed/fled/etc. No bullkitten trait that I don’t have direct control off should be able to make me disengage when I could win the fight if it didn’t exist in the first place.
Like the trait? Great. Move it to Major instead of Minor spot. Put “Power shots” instead of it for kittens sake. Or 5% shortbow and harpoon damage is too OP for adept minor trait and it has place in Master Major slot, huh? Don’t want Power shots? Good. Put shadows embrace in last refuge spot. Too op? No its not, every SA thief is already using shadows embrace and is forced to use this wonderful trait last refuge(might like it or not) in combination anyway. Or you think noone would pick last refuge if they could chose and pick something else instead? Thats right, everyone would pick smth else instead.

Karolis.4261

Trait should not punish player for playing aggressively. Even if i do play aggressively when im low HP I probably doing it for a reason and I might pull it off, and that kill im seeking might win me the whole fight, cause I just took down the biggest threat of enemys group 5 s before he got healed/fled/etc. No bullkitten trait that I don’t have direct control off should be able to make me disengage when I could win the fight if it didn’t exist in the first place.
Like the trait? Great. Move it to Major instead of Minor spot. Put “Power shots” instead of it for kittens sake. Or 5% shortbow and harpoon damage is too OP for adept minor trait and it has place in Master Major slot, huh? Don’t want Power shots? Good. Put shadows embrace in last refuge spot. Too op? No its not, every SA thief is already using shadows embrace and is forced to use this wonderful trait last refuge(might like it or not) in combination anyway. Or you think noone would pick last refuge if they could chose and pick something else instead? Thats right, everyone would pick smth else instead.

This.

Even though this trait can sometimes save you, it’s really not worth it. Either remove or fix/change. But it looks like anet doesn’t care about it, in fact, it seems like they want us to be nerfed to oblivion. (I mean look at all the nerfs we’ve gotten, but that’s besides the point) Change it to a Major trait and put shadows embrace in its place. Or replace last refuge with a new, better trait.

Last Refuge is similar to Necro’s old Reanimator 5pt (or rather, 1pt) death magic trait. Reanimator was not always a bad skill, but occasionally interfered with gameplay. Same story with Last Refuge. Both mandate a sometimes unfavorable mechanic beyond player control as soon as you spec into the trait line.

Reanimator was removed, so it stands to reason that Last Refuge could be as well. Or, at the very least, it could be moved to a major as has been suggested many times. Minor traits, since they are not chosen, should provide an objectively beneficial small boost.

Karolis.4261:

Trait should not punish player for playing aggressively.

It never ceases to amaze me how polarized players are. You must be one extreme or the other!

Do I even bother trying to define the difference between “aggressive” and “too aggressive”? Or should I simply allow you to wallow in your own misery while I continue to understand when its time to push and when its time to withdraw?

This “issue” has come up again and again over the past two years. If you’re still struggling with it, perhaps its time to find another class to enjoy. I hear Warrior is a nice Flavor of the Year.

deepwinter.9015:

Karolis.4261:

Trait should not punish player for playing aggressively.

It never ceases to amaze me how polarized players are. You must be one extreme or the other!

Do I even bother trying to define the difference between “aggressive” and “too aggressive”? Or should I simply allow you to wallow in your own misery while I continue to understand when its time to push and when its time to withdraw?

This “issue” has come up again and again over the past two years. If you’re still struggling with it, perhaps its time to find another class to enjoy. I hear Warrior is a nice Flavor of the Year.

Ty I understand the difference between aggressive and too aggressive perfectly. If I can score a kill and survive while doing it at low HP – thats not too aggressive for me, not my fault if it is for you. Last refuge interfers with that FORCING me to disengage even if I could still stay in fight. But I’m guessing you’re one of those thieves that resets fight over and over after getting hit once, never falling under 50% hp, running from fight and back longer then actual fighting, while im scoring kills in the mean time. I call such thieves B .pyyp. I .pyyp. T .pyyp. C .pyyp. H .pyyp. E .pyyp. S.

I’m with OP here. This trait is a travesty. This trait might’ve been worth it prior to Reveadled being added, but with the Revealed mechanic, it is pushing SA-specced thieves to play defensively rather than offensively, when low on health. As a D/D thief, I’d say this has saved me equally as many times as it has killed me, due to proccing midcast of a C&D, while the C&D would’ve saved me.

I would take any of the 2pt SA traits over this, heck, I’d even take a blank space over Last Refuge. At least that won’t actively ensure my death in fights.

Here to bump this thread, last refuge really needs to go.

Done my good deed for the day.

+1 to removing Last refuge. Even as a major trait, no one would take it. It does more harm than it does good, and the fact that it has a chance to get someone killed should be enough to justify it’s change. Traits are supposed to have only positive effects, especially if it’s a minor trait.

I don’t get what’s wrong with this trait..

I’ve never found myself complaining about it popping. Infact, I’m happy when it does, because more often than not I am trying to find something to stealth off of.

I remember making a thread asking for last refuge to become a major trait… a year and a half ago…

It has saved me many times, and many times the stealth it provides haven’t done anything good, and many times it has killed me.

The problem lies mostly in taking damage from rapid attacks, phantasm duelist for instance, you are about to CnD at 50% health and the phantasm fires off a volley, and Last Refuge pops before the CnD has landed.

The fix imo would be for it to proc after current action, and cancel any queued skills.
Or that it gave different type of stealth that doesn’t stack with other sources, doesn’t give you revealed and doesn’t grant access to backstab.

Bump, Infract me.

Karolis.4261:

Bump, Infract me.

+1

Please fix this trait anet……… please………. <3

Bum, infract me.

bump, infract the above person
<3

Daily Bump. So what?

when you build a skill set or your trait repartition you just need to read all of them.

Last refuge is not bugged. you need a more friendly trait ? rly ?

When you know you will be sdown to 25% just stop want to sleath and wait LR proc…. For waiting you can chain auto attaque, this will auto morph in BS if opponnenet continue to hit you.

Ask to delete something because you can’t manage it, its just a proof you don’t know play thief …
Want play adressive ? skip SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme
Want play passive ? get SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme

Stop running Shadow Arts traits.

Take off the training wheels.

Step into the light.

Problem solved.

Belgarion.1975:

when you build a skill set or your trait repartition you just need to read all of them.

Last refuge is not bugged. you need a more friendly trait ? rly ?

When you know you will be sdown to 25% just stop want to sleath and wait LR proc…. For waiting you can chain auto attaque, this will auto morph in BS if opponnenet continue to hit you.

Ask to delete something because you can’t manage it, its just a proof you don’t know play thief …
Want play adressive ? skip SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme
Want play passive ? get SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme

Say what ? Noone says its bugged. Its poorly made and is harmful more then useful. You can get down from 100% to <25% in less then a second while already casting CnD or leaping through smoke field. IF it didn’t exist you stand a chance of surviving that huge burst from nowhere situation – with it you don’t. Last refuge is harmful and does not work with stealth heavy builds. Ironically it sits in stealth trait line.

Let’s swap Last refuge with Exposed weakness to meld with Cloaked in Shadow Im sorry too strong?

Just add the option to disable minor traits. Would be thrilled if I could do without last refuge, even if that means having no minor trait in that slot at all

Karolis.4261:

Belgarion.1975:

when you build a skill set or your trait repartition you just need to read all of them.

Last refuge is not bugged. you need a more friendly trait ? rly ?

When you know you will be sdown to 25% just stop want to sleath and wait LR proc…. For waiting you can chain auto attaque, this will auto morph in BS if opponnenet continue to hit you.

Ask to delete something because you can’t manage it, its just a proof you don’t know play thief …
Want play adressive ? skip SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme
Want play passive ? get SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme

Say what ? Noone says its bugged. Its poorly made and is harmful more then useful. You can get down from 100% to <25% in less then a second while already casting CnD or leaping through smoke field. IF it didn’t exist you stand a chance of surviving that huge burst from nowhere situation – with it you don’t. Last refuge is harmful and does not work with stealth heavy builds. Ironically it sits in stealth trait line.

if you are burst 100 % to <25 % there are 2 possibility :
- you have engage a lost fight
- you haven’t look for the situation befor fight.

LR is fine actually. It’s on sleath line cause it work well with all other trait in this line.
If you are troll with that, its just you don’t know how to play with this trait !

Go learn to play, and building your thief.
SA trait line is not for perma offensive thieves but for spike dmg thief. you must don’t spam sleath but do something other (dodge is aOP sustain mecanic !)

Stop ask for a fix when you can’t learn to play with a skill/trait/build…

Belgarion.1975:

Karolis.4261:

Belgarion.1975:

when you build a skill set or your trait repartition you just need to read all of them.

Last refuge is not bugged. you need a more friendly trait ? rly ?

When you know you will be sdown to 25% just stop want to sleath and wait LR proc…. For waiting you can chain auto attaque, this will auto morph in BS if opponnenet continue to hit you.

Ask to delete something because you can’t manage it, its just a proof you don’t know play thief …
Want play adressive ? skip SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme
Want play passive ? get SA trait, and LR will not be a probleme

Say what ? Noone says its bugged. Its poorly made and is harmful more then useful. You can get down from 100% to <25% in less then a second while already casting CnD or leaping through smoke field. IF it didn’t exist you stand a chance of surviving that huge burst from nowhere situation – with it you don’t. Last refuge is harmful and does not work with stealth heavy builds. Ironically it sits in stealth trait line.

if you are burst 100 % to <25 % there are 2 possibility :
- you have engage a lost fight
- you haven’t look for the situation befor fight.

LR is fine actually. It’s on sleath line cause it work well with all other trait in this line.
If you are troll with that, its just you don’t know how to play with this trait !

Go learn to play, and building your thief.
SA trait line is not for perma offensive thieves but for spike dmg thief. you must don’t spam sleath but do something other (dodge is aOP sustain mecanic !)

Stop ask for a fix when you can’t learn to play with a skill/trait/build…

Ty, I know how to build and play my thief. LR is broken. Choke on it. Oh and fix your post cause half of it makes no sense.

JohnnyZero.5619:

Stop running Shadow Arts traits.

Take off the training wheels.

Step into the light.

Problem solved.

Can always count on there being atleast one elitist.

Karolis.4261:

snip
Ty, I know how to build and play my thief. LR is broken. Choke on it. Oh and fix your post cause half of it makes no sense.

You have some trouble with LR → learn to play with.
I can’t believe you have done your self a SA build… All good thief who have build SA haven’t trouble with this trait.

Belgarion.1975:

Karolis.4261:

snip
Ty, I know how to build and play my thief. LR is broken. Choke on it. Oh and fix your post cause half of it makes no sense.

You have some trouble with LR -> learn to play with.
I can’t believe you have done your self a SA build… All good thief who have build SA haven’t trouble with this trait.

Does 1500 hours roaming as a thief in WvW count as good? Being “good” is a very subjective term, but after that many hours of not having a life here’s my conclusion. LR is an abomination for an SA thief. The only common occasions last refuge saves thieves is:

1. The thief is running away players are in pursuit and last refuge goes off.
2. Player is new to thief, has wasted all initiative HS spamming after which last refuge goes off, and said thief has no initiative left to break LR with.
3. Luck.

As for the rest of us, we’re careful with our initiative and rarely miss our cloak and daggers. However, we’re punished by our ability to find stealth by this trait.

The most common thing I hear from players defending LR is that you should “anticipate it”. So in other words, when our HP falls to…. lets say 30%? Thieves should stop attempting to stealth themselves and allow LR to do it for them. This method is inviting death.
Now im gonna go out on a limb here, and say most sustained SA thieves sit at around 16k hp default, give or take 2k either way. I know HP varies alot more then im making it out to be, but for the sake of this point lets say 16k. Last refuge will pop when said thief reaches 4k. alright, so….. we’re expected to stop attempting to stealth ourselves once we hit say….. 5k? … and hope that the next attack doesn’t hit for 5k or so?
Because you know, its not like a thief is a squishy class, im sure its exceedingly rare to be hit for anything over 1k right? Its not like we should try to avoid dmg at this point. Instead we should face tank the next attack to ensure LR goes off at a good time. How could that backfire?

So basically we have 2 options. Attempt a stealth whether it be Cnd or a hs + bp with the risk of LR going off mid cast and adding revealed and killing us. Or, we do nothing at all, and hope that the next attack delivered by our opponent doesn’t crit thus killing us?

Please explain to me how I should L2p to counter this trait. If any other thieves who have played SA have any experience dealing with LR please share it

TL;)DR

LR is terrible, a thieves hp is too low at 25% to allow any form of dmg to hit them thus allowing LR to go off in an ideal moment.

If LR only put sleath, i will gree with you.

In fact LR give sleath AND blind all ennemies in radius.
So at 5 k health you will not be instant down…. or if you down under 5 k hp without burst the prob is here.

With blind you can safely escape with last refuge. So yes you must put this trigger in your gameplay.

for your experience :
1500 hours in roaming in WvW, haven’t rly sense fore me. One of the reason its in wvw you are in open world with not balance stuff.
In my experience i have killed many people with my thief in wvw (1v1,1v2, etc ..) et die vs bus. It isn’t a “good” experience for pvp.
Other reason is area of effetc is limited to 5 target, this is just game break for some skill (LR is one)

In SPVP, the number of target is often under 5. So LR is advantage.

I m not saying i never die cause of this trait. I m saying : its not a bad trait, just not easy to play with

Belgarion.1975:

If LR only put sleath, i will gree with you.

In fact LR give sleath AND blind all ennemies in radius.
So at 5 k health you will not be instant down…. or if you down under 5 k hp without burst the prob is here.

With blind you can safely escape with last refuge. So yes you must put this trigger in your gameplay.

for your experience :
1500 hours in roaming in WvW, haven’t rly sense fore me. One of the reason its in wvw you are in open world with not balance stuff.
In my experience i have killed many people with my thief in wvw (1v1,1v2, etc ..) et die vs bus. It isn’t a “good” experience for pvp.
Other reason is area of effetc is limited to 5 target, this is just game break for some skill (LR is one)

In SPVP, the number of target is often under 5. So LR is advantage.

I m not saying i never die cause of this trait. I m saying : its not a bad trait, just not easy to play with

I think you might need to read my post again carefully, that or I need to re-word it.

Take note of my only counters to LR, and explain to me if there is a third alternative, besides running away.

I love LR but only because on my vamparic runes, outside of that it can get on my nerves.

Doug.4930:

Belgarion.1975:

If LR only put sleath, i will gree with you.

In fact LR give sleath AND blind all ennemies in radius.
So at 5 k health you will not be instant down…. or if you down under 5 k hp without burst the prob is here.

With blind you can safely escape with last refuge. So yes you must put this trigger in your gameplay.

for your experience :
1500 hours in roaming in WvW, haven’t rly sense fore me. One of the reason its in wvw you are in open world with not balance stuff.
In my experience i have killed many people with my thief in wvw (1v1,1v2, etc ..) et die vs bus. It isn’t a “good” experience for pvp.
Other reason is area of effetc is limited to 5 target, this is just game break for some skill (LR is one)

In SPVP, the number of target is often under 5. So LR is advantage.

I m not saying i never die cause of this trait. I m saying : its not a bad trait, just not easy to play with

I think you might need to read my post again carefully, that or I need to re-word it.

Take note of my only counters to LR, and explain to me if there is a third alternative, besides running away.

Do AA with your skill : will proc stealth attack with LR.
LR Blind ! You will not take a deadly hit !

Belgarion.1975:

Doug.4930:

Belgarion.1975:

If LR only put sleath, i will gree with you.

In fact LR give sleath AND blind all ennemies in radius.
So at 5 k health you will not be instant down…. or if you down under 5 k hp without burst the prob is here.

With blind you can safely escape with last refuge. So yes you must put this trigger in your gameplay.

for your experience :
1500 hours in roaming in WvW, haven’t rly sense fore me. One of the reason its in wvw you are in open world with not balance stuff.
In my experience i have killed many people with my thief in wvw (1v1,1v2, etc ..) et die vs bus. It isn’t a “good” experience for pvp.
Other reason is area of effetc is limited to 5 target, this is just game break for some skill (LR is one)

In SPVP, the number of target is often under 5. So LR is advantage.

I m not saying i never die cause of this trait. I m saying : its not a bad trait, just not easy to play with

I think you might need to read my post again carefully, that or I need to re-word it.

Take note of my only counters to LR, and explain to me if there is a third alternative, besides running away.

Do AA with your skill : will proc stealth attack with LR.
LR Blind ! You will not take a deadly hit !

If it would only be so simple. You might be under effects of revealed when it proc, you might be using other skill then aa, you might be using CnD or Smoke field+targeted hs which will reveal you. And finally… in most cases you don’t want to open up when you are at 25 % hp, you want to stealth and run/rejuvenate or you WILL take a deadly hit. It does not work with revealed mechanics. PERIOD.

Karolis.4261:

Okay so here I go once more.
Fix last refuge or kittening remove it. Its broken since launch and you don’t do anything about it, but keep deleting complaints.
Can ban me right now (again) cause i will remake this thread every kitten day. Just for lols and giggles.

Wat the fk are u trying to say? you calling last refuge grey – nah man its blue and so are you, I could tie you down to the ground and trace my d call it a tattoo. You think its funny that refuge dont work – well man quit being a jerk. Theres plenty of haters cant you see, and they choose to hate on me, cause im the greatest the latest the best, when my thief backstabs you he puts your carrion to the test.

the best part of your dmg is AA. if you don’t spam hit you loose dps.
Why want use skill for sleath when LR will proc ?

if you fear at 25 % hp, i can do nothing for you ^^
this blind tp sleath thief can go away with 10 life and still a live.

But a iwill more realist :
- Be undr effect of reveald when its proc : => sure you will not go in sleath, but aoe blind will proc, give you the security needed to wait the end of revealed
- Can’t do skill with cast time for go in sleath and must wait it : yep its true. at 35 % hp next hit will proc LR, so you stop try to go in sleath and just AA.
- and if cnd or 5+2 fails to give you sleath cause of LR its give you one blind aoe. its still usefull.

so in 1 case its broke your game play, why not… But in 75 % it will give you an advantage

Belgarion.1975:

the best part of your dmg is AA. if you don’t spam hit you loose dps.
Why want use skill for sleath when LR will proc ?

if you fear at 25 % hp, i can do nothing for you ^^
this blind tp sleath thief can go away with 10 life and still a live.

But a iwill more realist :
- Be undr effect of reveald when its proc : => sure you will not go in sleath, but aoe blind will proc, give you the security needed to wait the end of revealed
- Can’t do skill with cast time for go in sleath and must wait it : yep its true. at 35 % hp next hit will proc LR, so you stop try to go in sleath and just AA.
- and if cnd or 5+2 fails to give you sleath cause of LR its give you one blind aoe. its still usefull.

so in 1 case its broke your game play, why not… But in 75 % it will give you an advantage

You still dont get the point why thieves dont like LR. We dont like it because it forces us to change our gameplay drastically in order not to suffer LR consuquences. Disengage and abuse way too short out of combat distance (but then sustain SA builds, spacially shadow rejuvenation, lose its purpose) or as you said spam 111 instead of stealthing yourself (while using your stealth heavy build, see what I did here???) hoping that it will proc (and u wont get cced/bursted in that time) and u will land facestab (which is silly and will get you killed in most cases unless you are fighting mobs or bots) or run around eating damage and hope u wont get bursted too hard or targeted by some chanelled skill that will simply destroy you because u didnt stealth 1 second earlier (you could if LR didnt exist). At 35 % hp next hit will not proc stealth but, most likely, will down you.

Bump. Just because.

Karolis.4261:

Trait should not punish player for playing aggressively.

I would disagree as this trait is intended as a defensive ability to avoid dying. Effectively your logic taken from the opposite perspective would be that CnD shouldn’t use initiative/refunds initiative spent if it doesn’t hit a target, because then it punishes you for playing defensively/far away.

So yes, I think it’s working as intended and shouldn’t be changed.

DeceiverX.8361:

Karolis.4261:

Trait should not punish player for playing aggressively.

I would disagree as this trait is intended as a defensive ability to avoid dying. Effectively your logic taken from the opposite perspective would be that CnD shouldn’t use initiative/refunds initiative spent if it doesn’t hit a target, because then it punishes you for playing defensively/far away.

So yes, I think it’s working as intended and shouldn’t be changed.

When I go on the defensive I try to find stealth asap. When Im at 30% or so, unless iv got a utility ready, I cant find stealth without running the risk of LR proc and thus my immediate death, due to most of my build running off hand dagger.

So no even whilst going defensive this trait still can kill you.

And that’s it. CnD is a hgh-damage skill even if it’s designed with utility/stealth application in mind.

What LR does is provide a failsafe if you have no init and no resources. It’s a double-edged sword or simply a skill which if you know your HP numbers and watch for incoming damage, the negatives can be ignored, with the positives being free stealth.

If you find that it hurts you more than it helps, then just get another trait instead.

DeceiverX.8361:

If you find that it hurts you more than it helps, then just get another trait instead.

Clearly, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, or have simply missed the entire point of the numerous threads on this minor trait. It is a 1pt minor trait, meaning no matter how many points you invest in SA, you are forced to take it.

DeceiverX.8361:

If you find that it hurts you more than it helps, then just get another trait instead.

… man, I wish we could. I think that was the general point of the whole topic?

i guess my argument with it is. I’m on my Sb shoot and auto attack half way before it connects to the Target, LR activates. The shot hits i get revealed when i was just about to SR…..gg i ddead

Last Refuge should have an auditory/visual indicator, and instead of stealthing you without notice, it slots a free Blinding Tuft into your steal slot.

Reanimator was merged with a GM trait and it actually makes sense this way. The trait, Death Nova, originally caused your minions (and yourself when downed) to explode upon death. With it being merged with Reanimator, you can spawn minions by yourself so they can explode.

Assuming Anet noticed this thread and decided to merge this trait with a major trait in Shadow Arts, which major trait would you like Last Refuge to be with?

anet shoud bring f2 f3 f4 which would be some trait application which will be pop up when hit several limitation

like 25% hp f4 is ready to use
shadow step when stun f3 is ready to use
etc

when i see me going below 40% hp i try not to use stealth ability unless i am sure i am gonna cnd and w8 till this trait proc