Guild Wars 2

Heartseeker damage was nerfed.
Pistol Whip damage was nerfed.
Backstab will be nerfed.

And now everyone’s complaining about stealth on a stealthy class? And in a game that radically changed stealth to an in-combat utility with very short duration rather than an out of combat perma-stealth. And thieves still hit too hard?

Oh I forgot, their are also complaints about condition damage with P/D.

What is it exactly that our non-thief brethren want?

All this spike damage.

We want unbalanced game play fixed.. You can perma stealth while killing someone 100-0 that is NOT supposed to happen.

It really is not fair when a Thief can 100-0 someone and they can’t even see them to target them, it is like those stupid 100-0 stunlocks in the game that shall not be mentioned.

Nautika.5376:

We want unbalanced game play fixed.. You can perma stealth while killing someone 100-0 that is NOT supposed to happen.

It really is not fair when a Thief can 100-0 someone and they can’t even see them to target them, it is like those stupid 100-0 stunlocks in the game that shall not be mentioned.

all is fair in love and war

Stealth is a method of damage avoidance. If it is severely restricted or altered then they’ll have to compensate in other areas to boost survivability.

Nautika.5376:

We want unbalanced game play fixed.. You can perma stealth while killing someone 100-0 that is NOT supposed to happen.

It really is not fair when a Thief can 100-0 someone and they can’t even see them to target them, it is like those stupid 100-0 stunlocks in the game that shall not be mentioned.

the only thing that comes close to perma stealth is one build, that can’t do much of anything aside from contest points, and stealth point contesting is something that shouldn’t exist. what there IS, is a rendering bug that makes rogues still invisible for about another 3 seconds when they come out of stealth. it is a bug that need to be fixed desperately, also, with the revealed debuff, if you attack from stealth you can’t re-stealth for 3 seconds, so even if there was a perma stealth, you couldn’t kill someone from it. and you can take damage in stealth on top of that. it is our main defensive ability, but it can be countered like everything else if you know what to do.

the rendering issue is really the biggest problem with thieves right now, and it desperately needs a fix

Its going to be quite easy for me to make a decision

NERF Backstab and i’m literally gone from GW2 forever, I have 3 classes

Thief – Warrior & Engineer and I must say Thief just appeals me the most.

Alot of people wont like this and alot of will leave, its going to be funny to see them destroy some gamer numbers down the road same as in other games.

oellph.9450:

What is it exactly that our non-thief brethren want?

For two of you not to be able to do this:

Ayurox.1069:

Its going to be quite easy for me to make a decision

NERF Backstab and i’m literally gone from GW2 forever, I have 3 classes

Thief – Warrior & Engineer and I must say Thief just appeals me the most.

Alot of people wont like this and alot of will leave, its going to be funny to see them destroy some gamer numbers down the road same as in other games.

Yep… if they nerf thieves Gw2 will be banished from the earth and nobody will play it, have fun with it and everybody will uninstall the game… I cannot imagine Gw2 without insta stealth backstabs, it would be horrible !

Seriously… good bye dude, take care and have fun

honestly dnt quit just cuz 1 skill gets nerfed they will always exchange that nerf and give us a boost in another skill or 2. backstab is not the end of the world yes i understand alot of players builds revolve around that one skill but tbh i see more P/D thiefs than backstab thats just in FortAspenwood but yea.

@RamataKahn

that video proves nothing. u kno wat it actually proves. that WHOLE KITTEN zerg is just bad cuz when a thief enters stealth DNT STOP ATTACKING like honestly u guys should know this by now we are not immune to damage while stealth lmao come on.

thier was one piece of that vid in the first part the whole zerg stopped. and looked at the stars like WHERE SHE GO ? when she is right thier infront of them x.x lmao AOE> ppl. easy ..

Been lurking in the forums here. But this bothers me far too much.
@RamataKahn
You do realize the video is from september 23rd right?

RamataKahn.4283:

oellph.9450:

What is it exactly that our non-thief brethren want?

For two of you not to be able to do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

That’s a perfect example of how horrible players contribute to the hatred towards thieves. I mean seriously. They use shadow refuge (Which is an entirely visiable circle to the enemies) and they do nothing but stand there then attack a veteran oakheart. Makes no sense. They deserve to get killed if they’re that bad. Is it not common sense that the thief is inside the shadow refuge circle if you still see it? And even then, why would you expose yourself by attacking a veteran oakheart? Why would you know try knockdowns and pull in the shadow refuge? Why not even hit? That video is a perfect example of a L2P issue. A smart mesmer using his pull wall could have ended the fight there. Just one mesmer. The fact that the entire zerg dismisses the shadow refuge shows a growing trend of ignorance that destroys the game for some players(in this case thieves)

Also, the majority of those players were not level 80. The green arrow on their name indicates not a level 80 player.

@Doomdesire
+1 bro exactly honestly i rather them keep backstab the way it is cuz i have no problem dealing with it at all. i run a condition D/D and shortbow 0/0/20/20/30 and backstab thiefs prob hit around 9k damage. i have about 20k hp so. once they get that one backstab in i stealth heal up and proceed to bleed thier kitten to death simple.

The only players who have a problem with it is players who cant counter it and get killed constantly. half the players ive seen complaining about it guess wat they are. GLASS CANNON builds ofcourse ur goona get ur kitten handed too…

Xianxu.2543:

Been lurking in the forums here. But this bothers me far too much.
@RamataKahn
You do realize the video is from september 23rd right?

So thieves can’t do that anymore?

@Doomdesire
You do relize that ramatakhan is one of the guys attacking the oakhearts,right?
Lets AnalYze this video:
The first part consists of THREE GUYS (not 2) attacking a clueless zerg, consisted of 90% of ppl with green arrows, only a guardian and a warrior i see there as lvl 80, notice as the thief tabs through the zerg and all of them are green suckers; then, as the thieves tag the oakhearts, they go shadow refuge and the mobs drop target, turning on the zerg who in turn focus the poor tree ppl, take a look at all the roots going on, its now 3 guys and oak ppl against ze mighty german zerg;in the mean time, they have the full orb bonus,visible at the right side, just in case u didint realize. Oh, and they mindlessly attack the oakhearts, but i think this has been said already,right?
Then,there is a second part, where this 3 guys, now with orb bonus AND food bonus, proceed to obliterate more green arrow german zergons, with all of them busy playing against the doors… really a display of pure power, this video…

RamataKahn.4283:

Xianxu.2543:

Been lurking in the forums here. But this bothers me far too much.
@RamataKahn
You do realize the video is from september 23rd right?

So thieves can’t do that anymore?

Oh they can still do it alright. The only difference is now most people in WvW are smarter than the horrible players in that video. Unless you are one of those people who stand by idly and attack a veteran Oakheart the second a thief uses shadow refuge. I dare you to make a level 80 thief and try to take down a zerg using only shortbow and the same ultility skills. And if you do it, please, by all means share, because none of us thieves know how to take down a zerg like that shown in the video.

@Doomdesire
Thanks for elaborating (though not the person I was expecting to explain).
I thought the issue was something I missed like thieves becoming invisible on stealth. Yes I means invisible.

Rayya.2591:

Nautika.5376:

We want unbalanced game play fixed.. You can perma stealth while killing someone 100-0 that is NOT supposed to happen.

It really is not fair when a Thief can 100-0 someone and they can’t even see them to target them, it is like those stupid 100-0 stunlocks in the game that shall not be mentioned.

all is fair in love and war

Then shouldn’t nerfing thieves be fair too? :p
But seriously, the “perma” stealth thing shouldn’t be a problem after they fix the rendering issues. So its a visual fix you want on stealth, not a nerf.

Doomdesire.9365:

Unless you are one of those people who stand by idly and attack a veteran Oakheart the second a thief uses shadow refuge.

A zerg shouldn’t have to worry about attacking a vet mob with only two thiefs nearby, the fact they do is a huge balance problem. Daggerstorm should be spammable like that imo.

RamataKahn.4283:

Doomdesire.9365:

Unless you are one of those people who stand by idly and attack a veteran Oakheart the second a thief uses shadow refuge.

A zerg shouldn’t have to worry about attacking a vet mob with only two thiefs nearby, the fact they do is a huge balance problem. Daggerstorm should be spammable like that imo.

Asking for personal opinion: So, at what point should zerg be worried about people being near them? Stop worrying when they disappear from sight? Just thieves? I means it looked like this zerg was “worried”(might be wrong in my interpretation) when it was attacking the thieves.

RamataKahn.4283:

Doomdesire.9365:

Unless you are one of those people who stand by idly and attack a veteran Oakheart the second a thief uses shadow refuge.

A zerg shouldn’t have to worry about attacking a vet mob with only two thiefs nearby, the fact they do is a huge balance problem. Daggerstorm should be spammable like that imo.

You don’t have to worry about thieves if you address them. Not paying attention to surroundings is what a thief thrives on. Your moment of weakness, the second you shift focus, that’s what we thieves live on. We are opportunists. I’m sure the thieves would have just ran if they hadn’t attacked the oakheart. Thieves can be easily countered if you address the situation properly, these guys didn’t. The last thing you want to do(this especially goes for backstab thieves) is expose yourself like that. Definitely not a good idea. I’m sure the outcome would have been different if the zerg focused on the thief. However after I reviewed the video again, at almost all times there were only a few guys focusing on the thieves. Hell, even when he used dagger storm only about 2 guys tried attacking him.

Ayurox.1069:

Its going to be quite easy for me to make a decision

NERF Backstab and i’m literally gone from GW2 forever, I have 3 classes

Thief – Warrior & Engineer and I must say Thief just appeals me the most.

Alot of people wont like this and alot of will leave, its going to be funny to see them destroy some gamer numbers down the road same as in other games.

Cya then. No offense, but backstab is too much. Even on my All toughness guard, it can do 2.5k damage and sometimes worse. That skill also can be spammed, and used while invisible. What do you expect Anet to do?

midnightjazzy.7415:

Cya then. No offense, but backstab is too much. Even on my All toughness guard, it can do 2.5k damage and sometimes worse. That skill also can be spammed, and used while invisible. What do you expect Anet to do?

Backstab can only be used from stealth. Due to a recent patch, every time you use it will force you to be Revealed (unable to stealth for 3 seconds; it doesn’t always look that way to your opponent, though, due to the client “culling” bug). At best, it can be spammed every 3.5 seconds or so, since that’s the quickest you can chain stealth with Backstab + Cloak & Dagger. Also, the damage is lower if the thief is hitting you from the front.

Are you sure you weren’t just being repeatedly hit with Heartseeker by a stealth-bugged thief?

Also, having a melee attack do 2.5k damage to a Toughness-focused character seems entirely reasonable to me. The game’s just not designed to allow you to stand toe-to-toe with someone taking melee attacks to the face instead of doing something active (movement, dodging, defensive skills) to negate them.

Here’s how I feel about Nerf threads. Nerf all you want. I’ll still beat you because I’m a better player. When it comes down to it, you can’t nerf me.

Nautika.5376:

We want unbalanced game play fixed.. You can perma stealth while killing someone 100-0 that is NOT supposed to happen.

It really is not fair when a Thief can 100-0 someone and they can’t even see them to target them, it is like those stupid 100-0 stunlocks in the game that shall not be mentioned.

On what planet is a thief perma-stealthed and killing you? There’s 1 thing you could possibly be describing, and its laughable
->CnD, wait until stealth is nearly over, CnD rght as the thief appears for re-stealth
If this is killing you, its 100% a L2P issue. This would take literally forever, would likely be outpaced by just using your heal skill and waiting for the CD, and can be countered by moving in a straight line, maybe throw in a dodge roll to be absolutely sure.

Unless of course you’re talking about the culling/rendering issue, which is a bug, and is in no way controlled by the thief or intended. Bug != unbalanced gameplay.

Edit: Sorry, this was addressed. I’m just sick of reading blatant lies and misinformation.

RamataKahn.4283:

oellph.9450:

What is it exactly that our non-thief brethren want?

For two of you not to be able to do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

I’ll edit this for now out of fairness for not having time to watch the whole video. I will say the group they destroyed at the beginning deserved what they got for being stupid terrible players. No AOE at all the whole time on top of their shadow refuge, stopping and turning around to PVE a veteran mob while 2 enemies go untouched the entire time. And people are mad about stealth, you should be mad for ignorant people whining about how they can’t overcome themselves in PvP, and the reason is your class is probably next on the whine list.

Also entire US fleet shouldn’t have to worry about single kamikaze Japanese aircraft,but this is war.When you go to war,you go to war.Next time you see a thief spinning you beat the **** out of him with melee skills and i will be surprised if he didn’t dodge away from it in the 2-3 second.

Cya then. No offense, but backstab is too much. Even on my All toughness guard, it can do 2.5k damage and sometimes worse. That skill also can be spammed, and used while invisible. What do you expect Anet to do?

Is this a joke?You’re complaining about a skill that does 2.5k?2500 ?I feel you man..it must be a 1 shot kill.Ohhh .. and its spammable ..every 3-4 seconds !
FACEPALM
What should BS hit your thoughness guardian whit? 250? that shouldn’t pose much of a thread would it?Whit you ..you never know.

If it was satire , I appologise . I’ve seen them all so you never know.

NightyNight.1823:

Cya then. No offense, but backstab is too much. Even on my All toughness guard, it can do 2.5k damage and sometimes worse. That skill also can be spammed, and used while invisible. What do you expect Anet to do?

Is this a joke?You’re complaining about a skill that does 2.5k?2500 ?I feel you man..it must be a 1 shot kill.Ohhh .. and its spammable ..every 3-4 seconds !
FACEPALM
What should BS hit your thoughness guardian whit? 250? that shouldn’t pose much of a thread would it?Whit you ..you never know.

If it was satire , I appologise . I’ve seen them all so you never know.

It’s not satire. It’s pure unaltered ignorance. This is the type of people who spam the thief forum for nerfs. It’s just ridiculous, every claim to nerf is refuted by a wealth of evidence and counter examples but these absurd complains just keep coming.

Zimlobo.3962:

Here’s how I feel about Nerf threads. Nerf all you want. I’ll still beat you because I’m a better player. When it comes down to it, you can’t nerf me.

+1

I agree, nerf away! It won’t stop me from kicking in baddie’s teeth and attempting to craft some jewelry in the Mystic Forge with’em.

Stealth classes always recieve the highest amount of QQ in almost any MMO. People dont understand how they work, they dont understand how to counter them, then they cry their eyes out calling for nerfs/raging.

That video that was posted is actually a good example of why the problem is just being bad with most players who lose to thieves. That thief had 13k HP, and most likely less than 1k toughness, yet out of all those players, no one could even pop off a few ranged attacks to down him? When he used dagger storm in the middle of all those players, no one simply walked/rolled up to him and took him out with a few melee attacks. When he and the other thief would pop shadow refuge, not a single player used any AE damage on the obvious circle stealth animation area they stood in.

Thief damage may be too much in some areas, but for christs sake, take care of the real problems first. The bug that keeps a thief stealthed for 3 seconds or whatever even after he leaves stealth is a huge reason why a lot of players call thieves OP. Its not intended at all and is not a part of the thief profession.

Lordryux.9785:

@Doomdesire
+1 bro exactly honestly i rather them keep backstab the way it is cuz i have no problem dealing with it at all. i run a condition D/D and shortbow 0/0/20/20/30 and backstab thiefs prob hit around 9k damage. i have about 20k hp so. once they get that one backstab in i stealth heal up and proceed to bleed thier kitten to death simple.

The only players who have a problem with it is players who cant counter it and get killed constantly. half the players ive seen complaining about it guess wat they are. GLASS CANNON builds ofcourse ur goona get ur kitten handed too…

You can stealth up but he cant? And 9k is on 1 attack only. You are forgetting mug and HS spam. With haste you are getting at least 3 hits in 1s.

@stx
Dagger storm snares people so they have a trouble keeping up with you. I pull it off often with minimal dmg received. I only get forced to retreat if im dumb enough to move into melee range of several people.

I was going to write a spiteful response, but thought " narh.. if the bloody mess this game up, I can just stop"

I play a thief because I love shadowstep and inniative-system.. but if guardians didn’t moved so darn slow I would pick them since i love support my team.

Nautika.5376:

We want unbalanced game play fixed.. You can perma stealth while killing someone 100-0 that is NOT supposed to happen.

It really is not fair when a Thief can 100-0 someone and they can’t even see them to target them, it is like those stupid 100-0 stunlocks in the game that shall not be mentioned.

It is not possible to kill someone while perma-stealthed, the only possible way to perma stealth involves doing little to no damage to anything because damage while stealthed gives ‘revealed’ and prevents stealthing again for 3 seconds. The culling problems causing a thief to appear to be invisible for longer than the stealth actually lasts is not ‘perma-stealth’, it is a problem with the culling, and will be fixed when/if the culling is fixed.

Thieves (and to a lesser degree, Mesmers) get the QQ because they have very good escape mechanisms.

On my necro, the supposed “Attrition Class,” if I jump a zerg I die. They all tab-target me and unload, and I just die. Maybe I’ll get my one obvious teleport through a worm minion and live a bit longer….but not really. I’m still targetable, so I’ll just get charged/immobilized and still die.

That’s why people QQ about Thieves. It isn’t because they do a lot of damage. It’s because they do a lot of damage, and stealth makes them much more difficult to to deal with than any of the other classes. Not impossible. Not uncounterable. Difficult.

Most people are playing classes that can be countered by Tab 1,2,3. Thieves can’t be. It lets them farm newbies. It makes people cry newbie tears and rage.

Sorry you guys are getting nerfed. I was just getting used to dumping AoE into your little stealth houses.

My money is on an extension of the “Revealed” debuff, and a retuning of Backstab/CnD/Heartseeker so it’s harder to frontload quite as much damage. But I’ve never played a thief, so I’m just guessing.

RamataKahn.4283:

oellph.9450:

What is it exactly that our non-thief brethren want?

For two of you not to be able to do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

Are you kidding me? Those guys see shadow refuge go down and not a single one of them drops any aoe on it. All those guys were lowbies who looked pretty clueless. Terrible, low level players lose to good, max level players is all I see there.

Eh.. newbies? I play thief very sucessfully in wvw and i have serious troubles when i get jumped by a thief. I either die before i manage to press a button or if i somehow survive burst theres no way to kill that thief. He just stealths and runs away. If he’s dumb i might kill him by throwning punches blindly, but we arent talking about kitten thieves… and thats the problem with thieves. Huge burst with extremly high survivability.

Bond.4813:

in wvw

Like 90% of this is “culling.”

Against dagger/dagger thieves, I’ll often see hit—-hit-hit-hit-hit before I can see my opponent. Over and over again against the same guy, even (I do a passable job avoiding getting killed with my superior mobility, and then come back for seconds, because I am a glutton for pointless fights). Because the client code is just that slow to draw them.

What does culling have to do with me losing most, if not all, of my hp in 1-2s? It also doesnt affect thief resetting the fight. Its easy to stay stealthed for a very long time. And with bow combo its impossible to catch. Its what makes thieves so succesfull with near no downsides compared to other proffesions.

My strategy is stat for defense and hope for the best.

If a thief or mesmer (or 2 of either) catch me at 75% health, I usually die before I know I’m being attacked. There’s nothing I can do other than bunker up on Toughness and Vitality, and try to spot them ganking other people and be extra careful (i.e. hope for the best). The class is too good at running away for me to really try to win the fight, so I do my best to make sure I don’t lose it. Generally, if they tag me with their burst combo and I don’t die they just pick a softer target next time.

This problem has gotten far better since I hit 80. I guess not being upleveled in WvW makes me a less tempting target.

I don’t cry about it, though. They’re burst classes. That’s what they do. If they can’t drop a caster from 75% to 0% with their combos twice a minute, then they can’t do their jobs.