Guild Wars 2

Highly overrated in spvp/tpvp, and unrewarding. Compared to a power spec for pvp, it falls far behind not just in team quality but also impact.

In pve/wvw it has uses because of foods/exclusive runes/sigils that make the bleeds/torment last a good time. Otherwise there is a laundry list of issues.

1. Bleed duration is short, aftercast is long. A mix of the 2 is unhealthy and results in difficult stack management. For a class that relies on bleeds as it’s highest DoT, it sure is a job to get them up.

2. Little condition variation for DoT. Cripple, immobilize(short), bleed, torment (short). The torment is not easy to stack in pvp, because there are soo little ways to bump the duration of torment. Bleeds don’t go far either, you have to completely spam stealth and get lucky to get sneak attack off over and over.

Thoughts on restructure?

I mean reworking pistol/dagger entirely. Whether it be individual skill mechanics or additions/removals of skills that offer little benefit. What do you think condition thief is missing?

IMO,

1. Fields. These make a huge impact with ranged dps like sb for rangers or pistol for thief. Our stealth attack is a 100% projectile finisher X5. Well where are our defined fields? We got poison from sb, and dark from shadow’s refuge. That’s simply not cutting it. Whether it be a trait or a rework of some utility/weapon skill we need a field that’s fit for thief that’s more easily accessed. I feel like the useless traps could and should fit this role. Both tripwire and needle trap are easily the least used utility skills. I never see a thief run them in wvw, pvp, or pve, and that goes without a doubt. What about making needle trap apply poison and immobilize on trigger, and pulse poison for those who cross it afterwards while leaving a poison field for a few seconds (4 seconds?). Something to work with other than caltrops. They are good but easier to spot and avoid than a field that can be combo’ed. The more easy to access DoT conditions the better. (I apologize for wall of text).

2. Condition duration/application. When looking at a good condi build it’s all about condition application/duration ratios. You can apply long bleeds/torment/burn you’re set. You can apply constant burn/bleed/confusion you’re set. Thief can’t apply long lasting bleeds, they have to dump a ton of resources in to get them beyond 20. You’re lucky if the enemy hasn’t packed a mighty condition removal skill and shuts down all your hard work but that’s the reality of it. I believe that the duration of the pistol AA bleed should be bumped by 1.5 seconds base(stealth attack included), and the aftercast be reduced by .25 seconds. Its 900 range, and its single target (untraited). This will allow powerful bleeds with the right investment into bleed duration.

Thoughts on condi thief?

why play condi thief when i can play condi engi or necro and have way more survivability? just saying

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

NinjaEd.3946:

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

actually thief can’t tank a boss due to 10% effectivety of blind and you can evade so much

Cynz.9437:

NinjaEd.3946:

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

actually thief can’t tank a boss due to 10% effectivety of blind and you can evade so much

If they have feline grace + d/x they can evade all the time on bosses. They hit rather slow and are easily spotted.

NinjaEd.3946:

Cynz.9437:

NinjaEd.3946:

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

actually thief can’t tank a boss due to 10% effectivety of blind and you can evade so much

If they have feline grace + d/x they can evade all the time on bosses. They hit rather slow and are easily spotted.

i would love to see you solo lv 50 mossman

the only boss in game that goes invis? Yeah that’s not limited or nothing… (sarcasm).

Anyways the thread isn’t pve related it’s pvp related. pvp does’t include wvw because you still have food an oils in there as well as exclusive runes/sigils. When you can put on food that grants 50% endurance regen I can’t say your point is a valid argument.

NinjaEd.3946:

the only boss in game that goes invis? Yeah that’s not limited or nothing… (sarcasm).

Anyways the thread isn’t pve related it’s pvp related. pvp does’t include wvw because you still have food an oils in there as well as exclusive runes/sigils. When you can put on food that grants 50% endurance regen I can’t say your point is a valid argument.

my point still stays, why play condi thief when i can play necro or engi and have better survival for comparable if not higher dmg… and more sustain at it

and yes, i am talking about pvp

the problem is not thief conditions themself, the problem is how thieves survive… conditions take time and thieves don’t have it usually

I solo bosses and towers in wvw

Spyder.9713:

I solo bosses and towers in wvw

bosses in wvw are pretty simple

NinjaEd.3946:

Cynz.9437:

NinjaEd.3946:

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

actually thief can’t tank a boss due to 10% effectivety of blind and you can evade so much

If they have feline grace + d/x they can evade all the time on bosses. They hit rather slow and are easily spotted.

u get 20% endurance back every dodge. that = evading all the time? yyyyyyyyyyah. idk about that.

It’s the same old problem for pistol main hand. The auto attacks don’t just cut it. Make the pistol auto-attacks more rapid and then revisit the rest of the skills.

Cynz.9437:

Spyder.9713:

I solo bosses and towers in wvw

bosses in wvw are pretty simple

ya I didn’t mean just bosses in wvw, I solo bosses in pve and s/tpvp

Travlane.5948:

NinjaEd.3946:

Cynz.9437:

NinjaEd.3946:

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

actually thief can’t tank a boss due to 10% effectivety of blind and you can evade so much

If they have feline grace + d/x they can evade all the time on bosses. They hit rather slow and are easily spotted.

u get 20% endurance back every dodge. that = evading all the time? yyyyyyyyyyah. idk about that.

It’s actually 15 endurance!

The condi durations on p/x are pretty anemic.

Compare thief pistol to the warrior sword condi’s:

Thief

• 1 – 1x 4s bleed (5x 4s bleed if from stealth)
• 3 – 2x 5s torment

Warrior

• 1 – 1x 8s bleed
• 4 – 5x 12s torment
• 5 – 4x 12s bleed.

I know side by side class comparisons miss the whole picture, but those durations and stack sizes are insane. It feels like the thief bleed and torment condition durations need to be increased by 1s.

The direct damage is also pretty terrible.

my take on it would be (random brainstorming, bear with me):
- give condi thieves burning (through trait for all i care)
- reduce CD on venoms
- change traits so they profit more from conditions… for example slowed pulse: gain X amount of heals for each stack of condition per tick
- revamp traps, make them like necro wells with team utility + condis

Travlane.5948:

NinjaEd.3946:

Cynz.9437:

NinjaEd.3946:

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

actually thief can’t tank a boss due to 10% effectivety of blind and you can evade so much

If they have feline grace + d/x they can evade all the time on bosses. They hit rather slow and are easily spotted.

u get 20% endurance back every dodge. that = evading all the time? yyyyyyyyyyah. idk about that.

15 endurance from dodge, 10 from dagger aa which takes hardly 2s to cycle through. Unless the boss is on some frenzy you can dodge enough. Dodging all the time in pve is the equivalent of ranger soloing champs. Its pve, things are mostly a walk in the park, 1 dodge every 3-4 seconds from a heavy hit is imo dodging all the time. Put vigor and they shouldn’t dip below 25% endurance.

Anyways this isnt about tanking pve bosses, its about power of condi thief.

Idk if comparing sword conditions from a warrior to pistol conditions from thief works because one is ranged and one is melee. Death blossom applies 3 10s bleeds(melee) its just its soo easy to avoid that only fools use it for anything but a whirl/dodge. I think ranger sb and warrior lb would be better comparisons and in both, thief p/d falls short imo. But yeah warrior s/s conditions are ridiculous.

NinjaEd.3946:

Travlane.5948:

NinjaEd.3946:

Cynz.9437:

NinjaEd.3946:

Why give a profession undeniable pathetic condition effects and say all classes can fill the same roles.

Can a guardian tank a boss? Yes by taking and recovering damage as well as blocking.

Can a thief tank a boss? Yes, by evasion and blind.

Do they achieve the same goal? Yes but by different means.

Now put thief in your equation and tell me what you see. That’s the problem I have.

actually thief can’t tank a boss due to 10% effectivety of blind and you can evade so much

If they have feline grace + d/x they can evade all the time on bosses. They hit rather slow and are easily spotted.

u get 20% endurance back every dodge. that = evading all the time? yyyyyyyyyyah. idk about that.

15 endurance from dodge, 10 from dagger aa which takes hardly 2s to cycle through. Unless the boss is on some frenzy you can dodge enough. Dodging all the time in pve is the equivalent of ranger soloing champs. Its pve, things are mostly a walk in the park, 1 dodge every 3-4 seconds from a heavy hit is imo dodging all the time. Put vigor and they shouldn’t dip below 25% endurance.

Anyways this isnt about tanking pve bosses, its about power of condi thief.

Idk if comparing sword conditions from a warrior to pistol conditions from thief works because one is ranged and one is melee. Death blossom applies 3 10s bleeds(melee) its just its soo easy to avoid that only fools use it for anything but a whirl/dodge. I think ranger sb and warrior lb would be better comparisons and in both, thief p/d falls short imo. But yeah warrior s/s conditions are ridiculous.

i have to dissagree. only a fool uses Deathblossom to dodge. 1/4 s evade on a 1.25s skill. 80% of that skill u are open to dmg and cant stop it no matter whatu do. DB is a horrible skill. they at some point changedthe aftercast so you cant chain it i noticed too.

Well a simple glance at the tooltip says it all, 1/4 second evade 1/2 second cast time. But if you’re immobilized and weapon swap is on cooldown and you don’t have or want to use up a Shadowstep, it has its little trade off there. Granted spamming it is ridiculous, but most people follow immobilize with a heavy hit (easier to hit a target that isn’t moving).