(edited by XZERO.3014)
Lets discuss death lotus
Death Blossom
is used for its bleeding application
being a skill that applies an evade is just a bonus
it’s already good
don’t ask for fixes on what’s not broken
if you want to use a skill for Evasion and Power use Sword/Dagger
Flanking Strike deals nearly the amount of damage of a Pistol Whip (which does about the same damage as a Sword’s auto-attack) but you’re stuck in place BUT evading at the same time
Flanking Strike can be used as a quick evasive skill with a slight burst potential (6-8k crits or something)
the only issue is it has a pretty disgusting start-up delay
but other than that
Death Blossom
is working as intended and should not be changed
because
Death Blossom
is useful for its Bleeding across AoE targets,not just its Evasion
which Pistol/Dagger doesn’t have either of those 2
I use it on my condition Thief an i like it its a great Aoe bleed just cause you dont see many people using it dosnt mean Anet should change and most wepons are purposely made to take on multiple roles not just one and you cant classify Daggers as just a burst wepon if you dont like it dont use it you have 4 other skills to use if you want a wepon that has more burst potential look at sword pistol it has balck powder causing blinds as well as headshot causing daze as well as pistol whip causing daz and high burst damage
Death Blossom, and I like the idea of giving d/d better AoE damage.
Although their are strong aspects of the thief that people abuse their are aspects of the class that do need buffs, if thief is more of a duelist class that excels in small bursts and out trading, it should be made more like that.
Death Blossom, and I like the idea of giving d/d better AoE damage.
no
Daggers don’t hit multiple targets for a reason (on any character aside from Elementalist which is a spellcaster anyway)
you have Dancing Dagger if you need to tag small mobs
if you want AoE use shortbow
if you want a melee weapon that does AoE use Sword,it slashes,not stabs,which hits multiple targets
people need to stop asking for fixes to things that are already on par with other things,ask questions on how to fix what you’re doing wrong,or theorycraft and attempt to learn different things,just because one thing you want to use doesn’t work doesn’t mean you need to whine about it because it may work for someone else
this is why there are so many nerfs to ridiculous issues…..
that is,if anet is even listening to complaints,which i’m sure is happening
In my defence short bow already excels at aoe condi dmg and it provides more mobility to get around the map, the condi on death blossom seems like a banana in a group of apples, it just doesn’t fit
In my defence short bow already excels at aoe condi dmg and it provides more mobility to get around the map, the condi on death blossom seems like a banana in a group of apples, it just doesn’t fit
D/D is more of a hybrid setup. You apply poison with auto-attack and bleeds with LDB. As well as having a good execute ability. You’re thinking in strict min/max terms and that just doesn’t apply in this game.
~Shadowkat
Death Blossom, and I like the idea of giving d/d better AoE damage.
no
Daggers don’t hit multiple targets for a reason (on any character aside from Elementalist which is a spellcaster anyway)
you have Dancing Dagger if you need to tag small mobs
if you want AoE use shortbow
if you want a melee weapon that does AoE use Sword,it slashes,not stabs,which hits multiple targets
people need to stop asking for fixes to things that are already on par with other things,ask questions on how to fix what you’re doing wrong,or theorycraft and attempt to learn different things,just because one thing you want to use doesn’t work doesn’t mean you need to whine about it because it may work for someone else
this is why there are so many nerfs to ridiculous issues…..
that is,if anet is even listening to complaints,which i’m sure is happening
It isn’t a l2p problem, Lets theory craft on what I’m doing right.
Example: warrior has you entangled and uses quickness and hundred blades.
1. Stealth makes you invisible but you still take damage.
2. Shadow step but you waste a utility you could use later for a dire situation
3. Death blossom in place evading damage but losing initiative and doing 3k bleed damage over 11 seconds which can be cured by any class.
So by giving thief the ability to deal 2k damage to heavily armored targets and a 11 second poison we can basically make the initiative worth it due to short bursts dealing damage that can’t be removed and poison reducing 33% of the incoming heal, it wont be overpowered just more useful to a burst weapon set, you’d even see it used more on next Lvl play
I see no issue with 2 or 3.
You get caught, you use what you have to repair the situation.
I do find Death Blossom an oddity but I’m not feeling your suggestion.
The great forum duppy.
so you want to wreck any conditon thiefs that uses death blossom for their build because it dosnt work on your build yeah your pratically doing that and shortbow dosnt even compare to the amount on condi death blossom does
Death Blossom, and I like the idea of giving d/d better AoE damage.
no
Daggers don’t hit multiple targets for a reason (on any character aside from Elementalist which is a spellcaster anyway)
you have Dancing Dagger if you need to tag small mobs
if you want AoE use shortbow
if you want a melee weapon that does AoE use Sword,it slashes,not stabs,which hits multiple targets
people need to stop asking for fixes to things that are already on par with other things,ask questions on how to fix what you’re doing wrong,or theorycraft and attempt to learn different things,just because one thing you want to use doesn’t work doesn’t mean you need to whine about it because it may work for someone else
this is why there are so many nerfs to ridiculous issues…..
that is,if anet is even listening to complaints,which i’m sure is happeningIt isn’t a l2p problem, Lets theory craft on what I’m doing right.
Example: warrior has you entangled and uses quickness and hundred blades.
1. Stealth makes you invisible but you still take damage.
2. Shadow step but you waste a utility you could use later for a dire situation
3. Death blossom in place evading damage but losing initiative and doing 3k bleed damage over 11 seconds which can be cured by any class.So by giving thief the ability to deal 2k damage to heavily armored targets and a 11 second poison we can basically make the initiative worth it due to short bursts dealing damage that can’t be removed and poison reducing 33% of the incoming heal, it wont be overpowered just more useful to a burst weapon set, you’d even see it used more on next Lvl play
excuse me?
“l2p” issue is what i definitely did not instigate
i was giving constructive support on the problem you were having
but let me get this right in the first place in your situation according to you:
you’re telling me a little bit of imitative that regenerates like mad is not worth saving your life in a burst situation?
please tell me how many other classes can do this
a utility isn’t worth saving your life in a situation because there are more dire situations?
please,tell me about what other situations there are in this game as a thief who can stealth around until their already fast-recharging abilities are recharged
~this is what i would have said if i were trying to post a “learn2play” at you
know the difference
so you want to wreck any conditon thiefs that uses death blossom for their build because it dosnt work on your build yeah your pratically doing that and shortbow dosnt even compare to the amount on condi death blossom does
^^^^^^^^^^^
this
(edited by Alpha.1308)
Why are you so offended? You provided an argument that instigated that I don’t know how to play so i theory crafted different solutions on the top of my head on how to counter a common problem in spvp, and i see successful condition thieves CnD and use the pistol stealth opener to apply bleeding stacks, they use caltrops on dodging and kite all day with the pistol dagger 3, they dont need death blossom for bleeds as much as you claim they do, I will go ahead and test a ranged spec which provides better kiting and more aoe condi thanks to the poison field and cluster bomb and tell you how it goes, seeing how numbers isn’t as valuable as a poison reducing incoming healing I think I’ll do beyond the death blossom spam, because utility Is valuable
Lets talk condi for a second, you want to out last your target and by having more accessibility to kiting I think that short bow will be a better alternative opposed to going melee for 10 seconds just to apply death blossom
Tl;dr short bow provides the same game play and provides aoe condition, is ranged, and can kite for days just like pistol dagger, and provides more mobility
(edited by XZERO.3014)
If you play D/D condition damage for anything other than the gimmicky Death Blossom spam for endless dodges and healing, you’re doing it wrong. And even that build is just a crappy one trick pony.
I’ve played D/D condition damage myself for a long time in the past, and I can tell you it is not any good. You may feel that you’re getting by fine, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is FAR worse than either condition damage Shortbow, or direct damage D/D. It is not a condition damage set, and that bleeding is just an anomaly. It’s there for the same reason that the Ranger’s Maul and the Engineer’s Blunderbuss have bleeding, and neither of those are remotely condition damage weapon sets; no one with a clue as to what they’re doing would attempt to build them that way.
It’s not nearly such an issue with them because they use cooldowns and it essentially costs them nothing to use those attacks.
But with initiative, where all attacks directly compete with each other, it becomes a big issue. Because such attacks become wasted space in most situations.
If you try using D/D for condition damage, you’re just spamming the crap out of Death Blossom and nothing else. That is not how any character is meant to be played, and it has no adaptability. It is the easiest thing in the world for people to predict and counter in PvP, and even in PvE you can’t adapt to any particular situation. Even something as simple as facing a single enemy rather than a group destroys much of your viability.
D/D is a direct damage set. And the poison is not used for damage, it’s used for the healing reduction. The actual damage is terrible.
The main trait tree for daggers is Deadly Arts as well, which is a direct damage line. It’s all Power and venoms (which apply non-damage, utility conditions).
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
shortbow does not supply the same gameplay, you will not be able to stack bleeds with it unless your melee range and even then they’ll less than half the time and d/d is superior in close range situations.
Also D/D is not a direct damage/pure burst weapon set, why people think it is I don’t know, theres just as much condition, support and utility in it as there is pure damage skills…
So simply if you don’t find the ability useful in your build, don’t use it but don’t ask for it to get nerfed for those that actually enjoy using ALL the skills in their weapon set and using them well.
And how you get deadly arts is direct damage when the only “direct damage” bonus it really gives is the 300 power, 2 +5% damage traits and +50% damage when downed, the rest are all about cohesion with venoms and conditions…
D/D is no more a direct damage set then shortbow is a condition set or elementalist staff is a healing set.
(edited by Dasorine.1964)
I think everyone’s forgetting that caltrops is a aoe cripple, and it lasts 11 seconds and re applies every time you walk on it, landing cluster bombs should be child’s play.
Also keep in mind bleed duration, Cluster bomb does slightly less damage over the same duration, and the ability to out last threw kiting is a great pro for a condition build..
I’m just offering a viable alternative to dagger dagger, not implying short bow is better, for damage. don’t be so narrow minded their is more to the game then damage. think about what a weapon can supply for your build.
People don’t like change, but right now death blossom feels like it is gimping burst builds, and honestly condition builds can do just as well with a short bow.
(edited by XZERO.3014)
with cluster bombs long travel time and short bleed duration it really doesn’t work like you think it does and is infact better as a direct damage attack than a condition attack.
And I’ll just reiterate the point of just because you like to limit your self to 2 skills in a weapon set doesn’t mean everyone else should pay for your lack of use of everything else.
(edited by Dasorine.1964)
And how you get deadly arts is direct damage when the only “direct damage” bonus it really gives is the 300 power, 2 +5% damage traits and +50% damage when downed, the rest are all about cohesion with venoms and conditions…
D/D is no more a direct damage set then shortbow is a condition set or elementalist staff is a healing set.
Direct damage traits;
Exposed Weakness
Back Fighting
Corrosive Traps
Mug
Sundering Strikes
Dagger Training
Combined Training
I defy you to find a single condition damage trait in that tree. And don’t mention the Poison, like I said that’s used for the healing reduction. The damage is trash.
In fact the primary purpose for Lotus Poison is likely to give Poison greater value in a direct damage build.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
Deadly arts traits that utilize conditions, boost condition use or apply conditions in some form:
Serpents touch
Lotus Poison
Exposed Weakness
Corrosive Traps
Venomous Strength
Potent Poison
Sundering Strikes
Improvisation
Quick Venoms
Panic Strike
Residual Venom
Stop trying to pigeonhole things into limited category’s then complain because they aren’t that limited category.
(edited by Dasorine.1964)
Deadly arts traits that utilize conditions, boost condition use or apply conditions in some form:
Serpents touch
Lotus Poison
Exposed Weakness
Corrosive Traps
Venomous Strength
Potent Poison
Sundering Strikes
Improvisation
Quick Venoms
Panic Strike
Residual Venom
Condition Damage and Conditions are not the same freakin’ thing. Condition Damage has zero effect on normal conditions. It’s only for Bleeding, Burning and Confusion. None of which are listed there.
Literally THE ONLY boost to condition damage in the entire tree comes from the extra universal condition duration, which is completely balanced off by the Power bonus and is only there to improve the power of the utility conditions obtained from the venoms, like Weakness or Chilled.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
Except condition builds aren’t just about condition damage they are also about the utility of other conditions.
with cluster bombs long travel time and short bleed duration it really doesn’t work like you think it does and is infact better as a direct damage attack than a condition attack.
And I’ll just reiterate the point of just because you like to limit your self to 2 skills in a weapon set doesn’t mean everyone else should pay for your lack of use of everything else.
Is that a joke? I use my skills according to situation, like most next Lvl players.
If you play wow you’ll know that you want to save a death knights death grip for a hunter disengage right? Same thing with death blossom, I use it to reduce incoming damage, I’ve won fights with 1k hp against other thieves because they don’t know that death blossom is worthy to use as a damage reducing skill.
Maybe i should post this on arena junkies, I won’t have narrow minded people who just try to get the biggest numbers, because numbers mean nothing when your dead.
Game play and style will always beat numbers, good players can make those numbers mean nothing. When/if a.net implies rating/mmo in spvp arena, we will see what builds are truly good, but right now everything is work in progress and so far I see death blossom crippling burst thieves who use it for a dodge, just like how I use heart seeker for a gap closer or execute, and bouncing blades for control.
DB is fine, and i use direct damage build.
with cluster bombs long travel time and short bleed duration it really doesn’t work like you think it does and is infact better as a direct damage attack than a condition attack.
And I’ll just reiterate the point of just because you like to limit your self to 2 skills in a weapon set doesn’t mean everyone else should pay for your lack of use of everything else.
Is that a joke? I use my skills according to situation, like most next Lvl players.
If you play wow you’ll know that you want to save a death knights death grip for a hunter disengage right? Same thing with death blossom, I use it to reduce incoming damage, I’ve won fights with 1k hp against other thieves because they don’t know that death blossom is worthy to use as a damage reducing skill.
Maybe i should post this on arena junkies, I won’t have narrow minded people who just try to get the biggest numbers, because numbers mean nothing when your dead.
Game play and style will always beat numbers, good players can make those numbers mean nothing. When/if a.net implies rating/mmo in spvp arena, we will see what builds are truly good, but right now everything is work in progress and so far I see death blossom crippling burst thieves who use it for more then high numbers.
So you find it works well as a defensive move but you don’t want it to be just a defensive move you want to change it so that it works better for your build specifically regardless of its effects on untold numbers of other builds and thieves?
And you don’t see an issue with that?
In that case I want heartseekers direct damage reduce but I want it to apply some conditions and I want backstab to do no damage but refresh all conditions on the target and put a condition removal block on them!
Except condition builds aren’t just about condition damage they are also about the utility of other conditions.
I’m not saying condition damage builds wouldn’t get anything good out of Deadly Arts, I just don’t think they’re the real focus of the tree. Damage-focused thieves get good use out of Shadow Arts and Acrobatics, but those certainly are not damage-focused trees.
My point is that direct damage thieves benefit MORE from it than condition damage thieves, by design. Especially with daggers.
I think the best solution would be to replace the bleeding with Poison. It would give the daggers better synergy with Deadly Arts, and improve the defensive component even more assuming you have Lotus Poison. Multiple hits of AoE Weakness would be absolutely beautiful.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
thats what shortbows for… and it still basically comes down to you wanting to nerf other peoples options because you feel your own are limited (which they are only because you limit your thinking)
with cluster bombs long travel time and short bleed duration it really doesn’t work like you think it does and is infact better as a direct damage attack than a condition attack.
And I’ll just reiterate the point of just because you like to limit your self to 2 skills in a weapon set doesn’t mean everyone else should pay for your lack of use of everything else.
Is that a joke? I use my skills according to situation, like most next Lvl players.
If you play wow you’ll know that you want to save a death knights death grip for a hunter disengage right? Same thing with death blossom, I use it to reduce incoming damage, I’ve won fights with 1k hp against other thieves because they don’t know that death blossom is worthy to use as a damage reducing skill.
Maybe i should post this on arena junkies, I won’t have narrow minded people who just try to get the biggest numbers, because numbers mean nothing when your dead.
Game play and style will always beat numbers, good players can make those numbers mean nothing. When/if a.net implies rating/mmo in spvp arena, we will see what builds are truly good, but right now everything is work in progress and so far I see death blossom crippling burst thieves who use it for more then high numbers.
So you find it works well as a defensive move but you don’t want it to be just a defensive move you want to change it so that it works better for your build specifically regardless of its effects on untold numbers of other builds and thieves?
And you don’t see an issue with that?
In that case I want heartseekers direct damage reduce but I want it to apply some conditions and I want backstab to do no damage but refresh all conditions on the target and put a condition removal block on them!
Except my suggestion is realistic since dagger dagger is more of a burst weapon set, your suggestion is far to extreme, your telling me that a condi thief couldn’t do well with pistol dagger shortbow right? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9NlTT9g7wQ
Ask yourself what roles condition specs do good with, ask yourself what condition thieves excel at, then tell me short bow is not good, and that burst thieves should suffer because of troll builds abusing death blossom spam for conditions, and why burst thieves can’t use this for duelling up close and personal
Acrobatics(condi thieves use this trait) gives you short bow traits.
Also with the upcoming nerf to stealth providing counter play, burst thieves will suffer if they don’t land a back stab, why wouldn’t death blossom getting a buff for burst thieves not be reasonable?
Except my suggestion is realistic since dagger dagger is more of a burst weapon set, your suggestion is far to extreme, your telling me that a condi thief couldn’t do well with pistol dagger shortbow right? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9NlTT9g7wQ
Ask yourself what roles condition specs do good with, ask yourself what condition thieves excel at, then tell me short bow is not good, and that burst thieves should suffer because of troll builds abusing death blossom spam for conditions, and why burst thieves can’t use this for duelling up close and personal
Except I never said condition builds were stuck to D/D and couldn’t get any use out of other sets, unlike you who seem to think D/D is meant to be a pure burst direct damage set when there are other sets that are more focused on pure direct damage.
Tell me why should condition thieves that like to utilize all of the d/d skills should suffer because some idiots who think heartseeker + backstab make a set pure burst are complaining because they didn’t think about their set before pigeonholing themselves into a “burst direct damage” role?
And shortbow is great here and there but it by itself is no more useful to a condition thief than it is to a direct damage thief, just how daggers are no less useful to a direct damage thief than they are to a condition thief.
Not to mention all the other builds of thieves that don’t just pigeonhole themselves into one or the other named builds.
But you didn’t ask for a buff, you asked for a complete change to the skill so while it would be a “buff” for your build it would be a nerf to others (who will also get effected by the stealth nerf)
(edited by Dasorine.1964)
Except my suggestion is realistic since dagger dagger is more of a burst weapon set, your suggestion is far to extreme, your telling me that a condi thief couldn’t do well with pistol dagger shortbow right? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9NlTT9g7wQ
Ask yourself what roles condition specs do good with, ask yourself what condition thieves excel at, then tell me short bow is not good, and that burst thieves should suffer because of troll builds abusing death blossom spam for conditions, and why burst thieves can’t use this for duelling up close and personal
Except I never said condition builds were stuck to D/D and couldn’t get any use out of other sets, unlike you who seem to think D/D is meant to be a pure burst direct damage set when there are other sets that are more focused on pure direct damage.
Tell me why should condition thieves that like to utilize all of the d/d skills should suffer because some idiots who think heartseeker + backstab make a set pure burst are complaining because they didn’t think about their set before pigeonholing themselves into a “burst direct damage” role?
And shortbow is great here and there but it by itself is no more useful to a condition thief than it is to a direct damage thief, just how daggers are no less useful to a direct damage thief than they are to a condition thief.
I really don’t see how valid condition dagger dagger would do, you get 3 death blossoms, I use my heal and remove all bleeds poisons ad burns, and then turn on you while you wait for initiative, and the remaining time to weapon swap. any smart player will abuse the down time you out yourself .
Shirt bow can constantly immobilize enemies, caltrops from dodging can constantly slow enemies, venom trap will snare your enemy, devoured venom will root your enemy, meanwhile your safe applying conditions and killing them from 900 yards away.
I don’t see why you are going strictly for numbers with death blossom, that’s just bad play over all when you can kite for days and kill them slowly, wait isn’t that what condition specs want to do? Melt their health? Add in safety and survivability and your a strong asset to your team, opposed to blowing your initiative death blossoming.
In the end we can only agree to disagree, I’m for the utility, and your for the highest numbers possible.
And shortbow is great here and there but it by itself is no more useful to a condition thief than it is to a direct damage thief, just how daggers are no less useful to a direct damage thief than they are to a condition thief.
Not to mention all the other builds of thieves that don’t just pigeonhole themselves into one or the other named builds.
Yes, yes it is more useful to a condition damage thief. The only real attack in the set is Cluster Bomb, which is all about the bleeding. Direct damage thieves only use it for the utility because they’ll never kill anyone with it. Not unless the enemy is dumb enough to die to auto-attacks before you die.
P/D is full-blown useless to direct damage thieves because all the attacks are bleeds, just like D/P is useless to condition damage thieves.
By the way, stop trying to argue that people are only trying to make this change for the sake of their own build at the expense of others. Technically you’re only trying to keep it as is for the sake of your own build at the expense of others. That argument is insane.
Glass houses and such.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
I still want death blossom to be more useful to burst thieves, rather then it scale well with only condition, I want it to be balanced between the two or more solid damage then bleed, or even have a poison on it, I have to go back to work, feel free to discuss about whether or not death blossom should change or not, but case and point, shirt bow is a good alternative to dagger dagger, especially with the control you can provide with dual range weapons
Autoattack poisons, deathblossom for a bunch of stacks of long duration bleeds, dancing dagger for cripples and kiting while initiative regens etc, heartseeker for finishing off when they are low health, cnd for defensive application of stealth followed by the occasional burst of damage from backstab.
Add in all the stuff you stated with shortbow that you can do just as easily with d/d but without the ridiculous short duration of the few bleeds you’ll be able to apply with the 1 move.
Plus I have a second weapon set which can contain a shortbow for the imobilize/kiting should it become nesecary or pistols for their added bleeds etc.
And once again in the same way that deathblossom is considered more of a condition move due to its low direct damage but lengthy and multiple bleeds, clusterbomb would be more of a direct damage skill due to its high direct damage and low bleed count and duration.
And the difference between us is that IM not asking for the weapon sets I use (and use well and completely) to be changed in a way that nerfs its use for other builds YOU however seem to think your build deserves to be the only one that can utilize the weapon set.
Did A.net design death lotus so I could blow all my initiative, and do no damage as a burst thief?
Yes.
By the fact you say that this ability allowed you to live through some burst that would kill most classes without using high cooldown skills (Though you say a Warriors 100blades, which can be 100% negated with the “S” key)
You had a choice:
- Take the damage and hope to be able to save the initiative for killing the target attacking you
- Use a utility/Elite to try and escape the damage to ensure living through the incoming damage
- Use Death Blossom to evade the damage at the cost of initiative (A finite resource that needs to be managed – Part of the Thief class mechanic)
- Swap to an alternative weaponset to use another skill to help in the situation (Infiltrators Arrow/Disabling Shot/Pistol Whip/Flanking Strike)
You chose option 3, and therefore have to live with the consequences, just like everyone else whom have limitations to their builds (Since no-one can use a 30/30/30/30/30 build, every build has it’s strengths, weaknesses and limitations)
D/D Death Blossom Builds are unique in that they’re able to get 25 stacks of bleed onto 5 targets on their own along with high uptime of evades. Completely dismissing this kind of build to say “90% of condi thieves are P/D and Shortbow works better” is narrow minded.
As far as the debate goes on Deadly Arts traits, ALL classes have Power combined with Condition Duration in their trait lines. It’s neither a Direct Damage line nor a Condition damage line, it is a “Venoms and poison” line (As stated by the wiki)
Whether that means you use it to supplement condition damage from poisons or use it to increase the value of venoms with the side effect of improving the uptime of negative effects such as the -33% healing from Poison or the -50% damage and endurance regen from Weakness doesn’t change what the line is designed for.
Also with the upcoming nerf to stealth providing counter play, burst thieves will suffer if they don’t land a back stab, why wouldn’t death blossom getting a buff for burst thieves not be reasonable?
Not really, if getting that buff completely destroys other builds (D/D Death Blossom/Endless Dodger etc)
Since Burst Thieves will still have the capacity to deal the same damage (BS damage isn’t being nerfed, it’s just if you don’t hit with BS in the time you have stealthed you’ll be vulnerable for 3 seconds) and will likely be getting changes in the future (Devs mentioned “Boon Hate” mechanics and mobility increases)
“Pull the trigger, move out ahead,
There’s two kinds of people… The quick and the dead”
There’s two kinds of people… The quick and the dead”
(edited by Taril.8619)
Just to clear it up as well:
Cluster Bomb with base stats:
No burst: 487 direct AoE damage, blast finisher, 1 stack of bleed for 4 seconds (170 condition damage)
Burst: 504 direct AoE damage, 3 stacks of bleed for 4 seconds (510 condition damage)
Average travel time: 2 seconds
Resulting in 6 stacks of bleed maximum at average range, less at long range more at short range, during the travel time direct damage will also be getting more damage from auto attack or disabling shots, once you add in criticals cluster does far more direct damage than condition damage.
It isn’t a l2p problem, Lets theory craft on what I’m doing right.
Example: warrior has you entangled and uses quickness and hundred blades.
1. Stealth makes you invisible but you still take damage.
2. Shadow step but you waste a utility you could use later for a dire situation
Stopped reading right there. I have two questions for you. First, what’s more dire than being immobilized by a warrior who is about to hit you with Hundred Blades? What are you saving your Shadow Step for if not that exact situation? Second, how is that any different than any other class in the game?
I still want death blossom to be more useful to burst thieves…
As an “evasion tank” thief I don’t really care what you want done with Death Blossom; I’m happy with it just the way it is.
I still want death blossom to be more useful to burst thieves…
As an “evasion tank” thief I don’t really care what you want done with Death Blossom; I’m happy with it just the way it is.
And other people don’t like it exactly as is.
This has been such a productive conversation…
I may not believe that it was intended for D/D to be used with a condition damage focused build, but I have nothing against anyone doing it. It’s not like I’m actively trying to destroy that option.
I just think something needs to be done to make it more useful to a direct damage build.
If there’s some way to make it work better for direct damage without ruining it for condition damage, I’d be all for it.
What if they simply increased the direct damage dealt by it? It wouldn’t be nearly as big a boost for condition specs since it would scale less with their stats, so I don’t think it’d be overpowered on them.
I see no issue with 2 or 3.
You get caught, you use what you have to repair the situation.
I do find Death Blossom an oddity but I’m not feeling your suggestion.
Exactly
To the OP, number
2) Seriously, in the scenario you just presented you are eating the most damaging skill in the game after knockdown or stun (wars built for hundred blades will have an effective 100% critical chance against stunned foes, meaning you eat the FULL hundred blades with ALL the crit damage) and you think there’s a more dire situation than that to use shadowstep? Or even death blossom (which is a weapon skill, i might add, not a utility on a long kitten cooldown)?
Color me surprised.
(edited by Teamkiller.4315)
Heartseeker already deals enough damage to compensate for the lack of damage from Deathblossom, also, it would be a pretty OP skill if it had poison, increased damage and CONSTANT evasion when activated.
In any build, there should be a windo of opportunity, and in this case, that’s when Thieves blows their Initiatives right away and wait for recharge. On non-theif professions, there’s the CD to open a window of oppurtunity. Without that window, the profession using the wespon set will be out of balance.
With that said, Death Blossoms is fine as is, and it is a condition-damaged-based skill, not so much as a burst skill.
If you want burst damage, then you are using the wrong skill since certain skill deals a lot of burst damage while stealth.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
At the very least they have to make the evasion last the entire animation. Especially for the cost. Right now it only lasts like half the animation somewhere in the middle. Even if the evasion were just frontloaded on the animation that would at least allow you to time it properly.