Guild Wars 2

A couple of weeks ago I decided to make a Thief for solo and small-group roaming in WvW and on Monday I hit level 80. In the past 2 days I have spent enough time in WvW to complete both of the monthly achievements. Playing as a Dagger/Pistol Thief it has been great fun tailing enemy zergs, scouting the area for threats and being a nuisance, however when I enter combat I feel rather weak. My survivability is great and if I want to run away or not engage in a fight I’m often able to thanks to the Heartseeker and Black Powder combination but if I choose to stick around my attempts at bringing someone down are embarrassing (nobody has said this to me but I feel that is the case). I can kill up-leveled or bad-squishy players with relative ease but anything else I am not confidant with.

A lot of my inspiration for bringing a Thief to WvW has been from bemeric1 on YouTube (otherwise known as Yishis from the Blackgate server) and my current build is very similar to the one he uses in a couple of videos. I don’t expect to be taking on 2, 3 or 4 people at a time like him but I can barely handle myself around a single player: If he can go 1v2+ with that build and not break a sweat then there must be something I am doing wrong if I struggle with a 1v1. Before anyone says it I have only been doing this for a couple of days and practice makes perfect, I completely agree… However even when I am constantly on the tail of a not-bad-but-not-good player in a 1v1 situation I still don’t have the ability to take them out, or if I do it’s a sloppy kill.

My build is below. Please note I do not have Chilling Sigils, they are a place-holder for other things that will soon replace them. Also note that the critical chance is affected by the Keen Observer and Side Strike traits, so it should be 38%.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.ha.a.1g.ha|5.1g.ha|1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.8g.0|0.k13.u54b.k19.0|40.2|57.5f.5h.5b.5v|e

I know this is a lot to ask without some gameplay footage (which I intend to get in the near future) but can any of you veteran Thieves give me some tips, guidance or general advice? I know I am doing something(s) wrong and until I can get over this hurdle I can’t see myself getting any better with this profession. I will answer any related questions you guys may have.

Thank you.

I’d suggest moving 10 points from shadow arts up to critical strikes to gain the hidden killer trait if you are planning on keeping the valk armor and beryl orbs. This will give you a nice opening strike on unsuspecting targets as well as higher crit chance as you cycle in and out of stealth.

You can, for now, also put beryl or ruby orbs on your weapons if you wish.

I also noticed your back piece has no jewel and you’re taking toughness foods. Those foods have a much higher payout for bunker condi builds than a semi-glassy thief build. I recommend Butternut Squash Soup, or the poor man’s version – Minotaur Steaks, as well as Master or Quality Maintenance Oils if you want more precision or Superior or Hardened sharpening stones for more power.

Edit:
Build: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.a7.a.1g.a7|5.1g.a7|1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|0.u13c.k54.k19.0|39.7|57.5f.5h.5b.5v|e

The whole point behind D/P was to trade damage for utility. Of course it doesn’t work that way because of initiative regen the way it is, but that was the intention. All burst from d/P comes from backstab and heartseeker.

You then took this premise a step further by trading off even more burst in favor of faster initiative regen (something I don’t think you’ll need because infusion from shadow should provide enough excess initiative to maintain reasonable damage (I am not sure if it will provide enough to perma stealth too, I don’t run d/P)

I would suggest you do what Josh suggested and go with the more typical 10/30/30 or 0/30/30/10 build until you get a handle on things.

Standard perma-stealth build of 0/30/30/10/0 outputs enough damage. Heavies will take time to kill but you should be completely unkillable using perma-stealth. You should also be able to take on multiple targets at the same time for the same reason, unless it’s just a team of guardians.

In team fights, just do what you generally do in a team fight as a thief: down someone, apply blind, move to next target. Someone else will finish the job.

Can’t say too much else from just the above information though.

you can try and use this for a bit more dmg and HP

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.3|8.1p.h1.a.1p.h2|5.1g.h4|1c.7l.1g.7l.1p.7l.1g.7l.1c.7l.1g.7l|2s.0.2v.0.2t.0.2t.0.3t.0.2s.0|0.u36c.u45b.a6.0|39.1|57.5c.5a.5b.5v|e

also d/p kinda sux unless u have a 1 v 1 or scenario. or 2 mediocre players v 1. its an annoying build and cant kill much unless they are alone. think of it more as a dueling build. thieves dont have a build that allows them to take on multiple players or stay alive long enough.

i have suggested this before to anet that all the have to do is make death blossom 1/2 or 3/4 second evade for a 1 sec kill and thieves will have survivability in crowds. atleast a little. even on withdraw. just a lil long would help immensly. or on FS. the problem is we are taking dmg on our evades bc the animation time is longer than the evade by 100% or 200% depending on the skill. so the skill becomes a liability more or less.

Well, this is what I’ve been using lately. Works pretty well is you start out with D/P then if they turn out to be a boon tank, you can swap to S/D to rip a couple, then switch back to D/P when they start to run. I found the 10% damge bump from 25 in acro was more helpful than having 20 in CS.
Build: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.h2.a.1g.h1|c.1g.h2.8.1g.h1|1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1i.67.1i.67.1g.67|0.f3.u54b.p39.0|0.0|59.5c.5a.5d.0|e

Thanks for the replies, the help is appreciated.

Josh Mitchell.1596:

>10 points from shadow arts up to critical strikes to gain the hidden killer trait
>back piece has no jewel
>recommend Butternut Squash Soup […] as well as Master or Quality Maintenance Oils if you want more precision or Superior or Hardened sharpening stones for more power.

That makes sense, I will give it a shot. Last night I finished the back piece with another Exquisite Ruby Jewel and put Ruby Orbs on my weaponry until I get enough gold together for something better. I’ve been using Bowls of Curry Butternut Squash Soup on my Berserker Warrior but never thought to use them on this guy, I figured if I was going to use _Yishis_’ build for reference I should use the same food too.

Atherakhia.4086:

>All burst from d/P comes from backstab and heartseeker.
>took this premise a step further by trading off even more burst in favor of faster initiative regen
>go with the more typical 10/30/30 or 0/30/30/10 build until you get a handle on things.

I think part of my problem is not knowing what to do when Backstabs and Heartseekers are not ideal, aka during the revealed time when the enemy is above 50% HP. At the moment I have been trying to stick to them as close as possible while auto-attacking and stealthing the moment I have an opportunity but this isn’t doing much by itself. Without the extra initiative regen from Infiltrator’s Signet the Heartseeker and Black Powder combination stops working after a few uses and it’s not possible to maintain permanent stealth. Admittedly this trick is not needed for smaller fights but it’s great for scouting zergs and stalking enemies. I shall give those builds a look.

ryokoalways.3450:

>Heavies will take time to kill but you should be completely unkillable using perma-stealth.
>take on multiple targets at the same time for the same reason

Yesterday I fought a tanky Guardian and after a few seconds of me avoiding his damage via Black Powder he decided to run off and I was too weak to stop him. I could hit and Backstab all I like but he would heal back up and negate a large portion of the damage I was dealing. A similar thing happened with an Elementalist, only it was myself and 2 others versus her and despite a good minute of combat she must have got bored and decided to retreat to a Keep with a sizeable amount of health still intact. I have to admit, that fight was incredibly frustrating. On a better note I did manage to engage in and win a 2v1 against a Mesmer and Ranger. It wasn’t the most spectacular of fights but I was quite pleased considering my inexperience so it was a morale victory to say the least.

Brando.1374:

>you can try and use this for a bit more dmg and HP

Thanks, I shall give it a look.

Maugetarr.6823:

Well, this is what I’ve been using lately. Works pretty well

Thanks to you as well, I will look it over. I hadn’t considered using a Sword before.

zero.5317:

A couple of weeks ago I decided to make a Thief for solo and small-group roaming in WvW and on Monday I hit level 80. In the past 2 days I have spent enough time in WvW to complete both of the monthly achievements. Playing as a Dagger/Pistol Thief it has been great fun tailing enemy zergs, scouting the area for threats and being a nuisance, however when I enter combat I feel rather weak. My survivability is great and if I want to run away or not engage in a fight I’m often able to thanks to the Heartseeker and Black Powder combination but if I choose to stick around my attempts at bringing someone down are embarrassing (nobody has said this to me but I feel that is the case). I can kill up-leveled or bad-squishy players with relative ease but anything else I am not confidant with.

A lot of my inspiration for bringing a Thief to WvW has been from bemeric1 on YouTube (otherwise known as Yishis from the Blackgate server) and my current build is very similar to the one he uses in a couple of videos. I don’t expect to be taking on 2, 3 or 4 people at a time like him but I can barely handle myself around a single player: If he can go 1v2+ with that build and not break a sweat then there must be something I am doing wrong if I struggle with a 1v1. Before anyone says it I have only been doing this for a couple of days and practice makes perfect, I completely agree… However even when I am constantly on the tail of a not-bad-but-not-good player in a 1v1 situation I still don’t have the ability to take them out, or if I do it’s a sloppy kill.

My build is below. Please note I do not have Chilling Sigils, they are a place-holder for other things that will soon replace them. Also note that the critical chance is affected by the Keen Observer and Side Strike traits, so it should be 38%.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.ha.a.1g.ha|5.1g.ha|1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.8g.0|0.k13.u54b.k19.0|40.2|57.5f.5h.5b.5v|e

I know this is a lot to ask without some gameplay footage (which I intend to get in the near future) but can any of you veteran Thieves give me some tips, guidance or general advice? I know I am doing something(s) wrong and until I can get over this hurdle I can’t see myself getting any better with this profession. I will answer any related questions you guys may have.

Thank you.

there is only 1 answer: zerker 101%, 25/30/0/0/15
since you have perma stealth (invincible), you don’t need defensive points

In WvW I run d/p + shortbow and I most often run 0/30/20/20/0 w/ divinity runes and a mix of zerk/valk/cavalier/soldier. I use hidden killer rather than executioner so I can keep a lower crit chance (more toughness and vit) and still have big backstabs.

I don’t run perma stealth… I rarely gain stealth more than once from a single BP; a lot of the damage from this set comes from auto attack and blind is much more powerful than you might originally think. I have a bit over 100% crit damage, 45% or so crit chance (not counting traits and fury), ~2500 toughness and ~16k hp.

In spvp I run d/p + sb 10/30/0/0/30 w/ ogre runes… I’m thinking of taking that build into WvW as well.

Until you get more comfortable try black powder to HS, backstab, one auto chain, then back to black powder + HS. The more time you spend in stealth the easier it’ll be for you I think.

GL!

Hype.8032:

>run 0/30/20/20/0 w/ divinity runes and a mix of zerk/valk/cavalier/soldier.
>I use hidden killer rather than executioner so I can keep a lower crit chance
>lot of the damage from this set comes from auto attack
>try black powder to HS, backstab, one auto chain, then back to black powder + HS.

I changed to those traits a couple of days ago. I miss gaining 10 seconds of regeneration when entering stealth but the 100% crit chance on backstabs is nice, though I’m surprised about you saying that a lot of damage comes from auto-attacking as it hasn’t been hugely rewarding for me. I’ve been trying that rotation and it does a decent job against fragile classes but I’m still having trouble with your average Guardian, Elementalist and hunkered-down Engineer.