GJ arenanet u are ruining the game , thief are OP now so just buff them more gj!
This is the perfect example of a whiner.
They buff a class that isn’t the class you play, you come on the official forum and start whining saying “X is OP gjgjgjgj nerf plz”.
Not really. Perfect example of a whiner is someone who complains without a valid reason :P
GJ arenanet u are ruining the game , thief are OP now so just buff them more gj!
This is the perfect example of a whiner.
They buff a class that isn’t the class you play, you come on the official forum and start whining saying “X is OP gjgjgjgj nerf plz”.
Not really. Perfect example of a whiner is someone who complains without a valid reason :P
There isn’t a valid reason. The thieves that use the bemoaned builds don’t take those traits.
Ah and here are folks complaining without understanding what’s going on. It’s not a 50% increase. It’s an increase from 33% to 50% for a trait that is rarely used.
You guys realize less then 5% of thieves take this trait right? It’s in our weakest trait line and the only thieves that go into that line are those that use it to build up their vigor for mad dodges.
You won’t see backstab builds use it. You won’t see pistol/pistol builds use it. You might see the odd sword/dagger or pistol dagger use it….but they’d be giving up their extra dodging ability in fights.
Really the only build you’ll see using it are the annoyance/stay alive builds. Those rare 0/0/30/30/10 or 0/0/10/30/30 builds.
If they had put this trait in the Stealth Arts line….then you might have actually seen it get more use.
For example I am a P/P S&B thief. I’m a 10/30/15/0/15 build. It’s built around Pistol critting and keeping a high initiative pile. For me to take that trait I would have to either A) Drop all damage on a steal along with a drop in power. Not max out critical strikes which means I wouldn’t get Executioner (+20%dmg to those under 50% health). C) Not go into stealth arts which means stealths last 1 second less and I don’t get Shadow’s Embrace (clears conditions every 3 seconds in stealth) or D) Drop Thrill of the Crime which gives Fury/Might/Swiftness to you and allies for 10s on a steal..part of my buffing of steal to dmg/give initiative and buffs)…..and I’d lose 3 initiative off my total initiative.
So tell me where does that OP trait fit in?
Server: SoS Guild: Work
Verucalize: 80 Thief
Señor Chang: 80 Ranger
You guys realize less then 5% of thieves take this trait right? It’s in our weakest trait line and the only thieves that go into that line are those that use it to build up their vigor for mad dodges.
“Less than 5 % of thieves use this ability because it is bad so it doesn’t matter if they make it less bad” is incredibly circular reasoning. Yes, it was underused because it was terrible, now it will be less underused.
Acrobatics is far from our weakest trait line, it easily has the most synergy of any trait line and is very well-rounded for offense and defense. What it is not, however, is a popular trait line for glass cannon assassination-style play. People are right when they say thieves currently not using acrobatics won’t dip into the trait line solely for 50 % stealth runspeed, but it has nothing to do with the trait line being bad and everything to do with it not supporting their play style.
As for the people not noticing the 50 % difference, you may be trying to compare 33 % swiftness vs. 50 %, which will make it much harder to see. It is pretty easy to notice a difference if you do something like run in a straight line at base run speed and then pop Blinding Powder. That said, with no rigorous way to measure runspeed, it could very well be less than 50 %, even if it is doing something.
After playing last night, even if it was working I don’t think I would use it. I miss the 50% fall dmg too much and am not willing to give up either of the other two acro traits.
You always hear people say a counter to stealth is aoe
Those people are, and have always been, wrong. AE isn’t a good counter to stealth, and people only say it because they’ve heard others say it, not because they’ve actually implemented the idea and found it effective.
At best, AE is a better counter to stealth than standing around doing nothing, which is what a lot of people do when confronted with it.
Well its best counter, most people have access to, personaly cluster bombing the hell out of whole area around me(lately running heavy innitiative regen build) is pretty easy to make other thieves run the hell away or down them. Or just give them a handicap at starting the encounter not full HP.
My personal opinion for this buff, is that, trait was useless as we had swiftness on dodge, or swiftness from ally making the trait useless. Also other classes signets incrased to 25%. Maybe their reasoning is if we made others faster, lets give thief way to be faster too.
How did you test? Seems to be working just fine, hitting something with C&D doesn’t slow you down, despite going into combat
What’s possible is that there’s a hard cap at 133% move speed. So when in combat, since you got a speed malus, the 50% bonus isn’t partially wasted since it still keeps us under the total cap. But out of combat it doesn’t work better than swiftness.
You may play thief, but you certainly are biased against it.
50% is nothing…especially considering it’s affected by cap (or it’s bugged right now, and doesn’t offer 50%). It’s a trait that no one (as far as I know) used. It is pretty bad, just like Improvisation (amongst some others).
Even with this change…VERY FEW (if any) will use it. There’s a lot better selection of traits available compared to this. If you fail to realize this, then you really, truly understand nothing (especially about thief).
Descent of Shadow = useless
Power of inertia = gives only 1 stack of might, not needed if you have Hidden assassin
Vigorous Recovery = not bad, but if you use Hide in shadows it is 10sec of vigor every 30s …
Assassin’s Retreat = i think the “when you kill an enemy” is a poor mechanic
Master Trapper = lol
Descent of Shadow = useless
Power of inertia = gives only 1 stack of might, not needed if you have Hidden assassin
Vigorous Recovery = not bad, but if you use Hide in shadows it is 10sec of vigor every 30s …
Assassin’s Retreat = i think the “when you kill an enemy” is a poor mechanic
Master Trapper = lol
Power of inertia = gives only 1 stack of might, not needed if you have Hidden assassin
Might stacks to 25, and synergizing towards it means multiple sources are better. The stacks that Power of Intertia grants have a pretty long base duration and it isn’t difficult to maintain 3+ stacks via dodging alone. Pair with Orrian Truffle Meat Stew + Signet of Agility and you can do 12+ stacks of Might just from dodging.
It doesn’t pair well with one-shot backstab style play, but it is a powerful trait, especially at the 10 point level.
Vigorous recovery is also pretty solid considering that thieves can get their heal cooldown to 12 seconds and vigor synergizes very well with the Acrobatics traitline. Descent of Shadow is great in WvW where you can actually use the environment to your advantage. Master Trapper and Assassin’s Retreat are pretty bad, although I hear that Assassin’s Retreat gives stupid amounts of swiftness when mass-killing in PvE for an extended period of time.
ok but we are no more talking about traits but how traits synergize with other skills.
I can tell that with a build based on stealth, +33% (50%) speed is a great trait … and the 1 stack of might when you already have 10 is not so noticeable; nor the +1 dodge every 30s
obviously if you play around dodges, vigor will be mandatory
1 stack of might when you already have 10 is not so noticeable; nor the +1 dodge every 30s
obviously if you play around dodges, vigor will be mandatory
By that logic no one should use berserker gear because “some extra crit damage when you’ve already got lots is not so noticeable”, overall strength is made up of a bunch of smaller boosts, and the +70 offensive stat points you get per Might stack at 80 is hardly a tiny boost.
Not sure where you’re getting “+1 dodge every 30s” either, Vigor stacked with the same trait line’s dodge refund mechanic allows thieves to dodge more than any other profession and further synergizes with the other on-dodge mechanics thieves can achieve through traits. Dodge is amazing as an avoidance mechanism on its own, but it really shines when each dodge gives the thief an offensive buff, swiftness, does damage/cripple/heal, and refunds endurance for more dodges. Dodge synergy is easily one of the more powerful thief synergies, on par with stealth.
Ah and here are folks complaining without understanding what’s going on. It’s not a 50% increase. It’s an increase from 33% to 50% for a trait that is rarely used.
You guys realize less then 5% of thieves take this trait right? It’s in our weakest trait line and the only thieves that go into that line are those that use it to build up their vigor for mad dodges.
You won’t see backstab builds use it. You won’t see pistol/pistol builds use it. You might see the odd sword/dagger or pistol dagger use it….but they’d be giving up their extra dodging ability in fights.
Really the only build you’ll see using it are the annoyance/stay alive builds. Those rare 0/0/30/30/10 or 0/0/10/30/30 builds.
If they had put this trait in the Stealth Arts line….then you might have actually seen it get more use.
For example I am a P/P S&B thief. I’m a 10/30/15/0/15 build. It’s built around Pistol critting and keeping a high initiative pile. For me to take that trait I would have to either A) Drop all damage on a steal along with a drop in power. Not max out critical strikes which means I wouldn’t get Executioner (+20%dmg to those under 50% health). C) Not go into stealth arts which means stealths last 1 second less and I don’t get Shadow’s Embrace (clears conditions every 3 seconds in stealth) or D) Drop Thrill of the Crime which gives Fury/Might/Swiftness to you and allies for 10s on a steal..part of my buffing of steal to dmg/give initiative and buffs)…..and I’d lose 3 initiative off my total initiative.
So tell me where does that OP trait fit in?
^^ This.
There are better traits in there then the speed buff for stealth.
1 stack of might when you already have 10 is not so noticeable; nor the +1 dodge every 30s
obviously if you play around dodges, vigor will be mandatory
By that logic no one should use berserker gear because “some extra crit damage when you’ve already got lots is not so noticeable”, overall strength is made up of a bunch of smaller boosts, and the +70 offensive stat points you get per Might stack at 80 is hardly a tiny boost.
Not sure where you’re getting “+1 dodge every 30s” either, Vigor stacked with the same trait line’s dodge refund mechanic allows thieves to dodge more than any other profession and further synergizes with the other on-dodge mechanics thieves can achieve through traits. Dodge is amazing as an avoidance mechanism on its own, but it really shines when each dodge gives the thief an offensive buff, swiftness, does damage/cripple/heal, and refunds endurance for more dodges. Dodge synergy is easily one of the more powerful thief synergies, on par with stealth.
ok. again: you are talking about synergy. In this thread i read that fleet shadow is crap and so i replyed using my point of view. and from my pov (build) other traits are worse than flee shadow. Maybe for your build there are other traits but this doesn’t mean fleet shadow is crap.
@brandon: i’m using a 0/30/30/10/0 with fleet shadow so i think i’m in that 5% ;P
Not max out critical strikes which means I wouldn’t get Executioner (+20%dmg to those under 50% health). C) Not go into stealth arts which means stealths last 1 second less and I don’t get Shadow’s Embrace (clears conditions every 3 seconds in stealth) or D) Drop Thrill of the Crime which gives Fury/Might/Swiftness to you and allies for 10s on a steal..part of my buffing of steal to dmg/give initiative and buffs)…..and I’d lose 3 initiative off my total initiative.