Guild Wars 2

So… since other classes have separate cooldowns on their weapon set skills, it makes sense for them to also have cooldowns on weapon swaps… thief on the other hand does not benefit from switching to another weapon set and burning through those cooldowns… we have no advantage to rotate our weapons in order to maximize our effectiveness… so why in the world do we have a cooldown on our weapon swap?

It’s already not very fun to share initiative between two weapon sets but having a cooldown for no benefit besides situational use? C’mon ANet…

I don’t see any reason at all why we need to have cooldowns on weapon swaps… I think one of two things needs to be done about this:

1) Have 2 bars of initiative for 2 weapon sets… in that case switching to another weapon would actually be beneficial and the cooldown can be justified
2) Get rid of the swap cool down all together… same initiative pool, why am I being restricted on how I can use it???

What does everyone else think??

Seriously? Make thieves more OP?
Consider a… Warrior, with Sword/Mace, Sword/Shield. If he swaps, he still has cooldowns o the sword skills.

I think: Swap cooldown is fine as it is.
You already said it: you have no cooldowns on your skills. Other professions do. If I cast chaos storm on my mesmer, then switch to Sword/Focus, wait for the swap cooldown and then swap back, my chaos storm is still on cooldown. And you guys don’t have that kind of problem.

Sure, I’d love to fight a thief that can constantly switch between let’s say…D/P and P/D to use the burst skills….. no, actually I wouldn’t love that.

How about making “Quick Pockets” a passive ability (ergo not requiring traiting), while replacing it with something more worthwhile that fits the trait line.

Problem solved.

Moving on.

You can have that as soon as the culling issues and the general issues with the stealth mechanic have been fixed :P

This is one of those ideas that seems obvious when you first think of it. I mean, thieves get no resource benefit (sans trait) from switching weapon sets like other professions. Why have a cooldown at all?

And then you realize that this would essentially give thieves a 10 slot weapon skill bar with access to anything from either set at any time. That opens a huge, huge can of worms as far as crossbalancing weapon sets goes.

Let alone balancing the thief in general.
Highest burst damage + highest mobility + stealth and now you want to remove the cooldown on weapon swapping while also having NO cooldown on your attacks….. seems legit.

Don’t get me wrong, I love assassin classes. In Gw1 my main was an assassin and I really hoped the thief to be about the same in Gw2.

I mean, the thief is a THIEF and not an assassin. He should use tricks and acrobatics, but the included high DPS is just a joke to balancing.

That’s not a huge can of worms, that’s a truckload of cans with dragons in them.

so I play P/P-SB thief now… I never even switch weapons because switching to SB does just about nothing for me… unless there is all of a sudden a bunch of enemies near me… so why not let me use any weapon set that I want to since it wont give me any benefit as I cant burn through my CDs and keep swapping?

I main a rifle/LB warrior… after I used up my rifle skills, if the enemy is still alive, I can swap to my LB, hit them with arching shot, hit them point blank with 3 arrows from fan of fire, pin them down and then go back to using my rifle…

now say I have PP and SB on thief… I burn up all my initiative on 3x unloads… then the enemy gets close and I switch to SB? Why would I do that? I have no initiative to use… I can only auto-attack… what’s the benefit of me even switching??? There is no incentive to even do that…

yeah… 2 bars of initiative will probably be insane spike dmg but why not allow swapping anytime? I’m not gaining anything from swapping if I have no initiative to use… what’s the harm in this? I don’t see it…

eXs.6210:

I’m not gaining anything from swapping if I have no initiative to use… what’s the harm in this? I don’t see it…

Think about swapping when you do have initiative to use. And then swapping back as much as you want, again and again.

Switching weapons imposes tactical tradeoffs. If I switch from a melee set to Shortbow in order to put some distance between me and a warrior, it means committing to not being able to spike down his mesmer for a while, for example.

There is already a initiative on weapon swap mechanic available. Which essentially does just what you asked for.

eXs.6210:

now say I have PP and SB on thief… I burn up all my initiative on 3x unloads… then the enemy gets close and I switch to SB? Why would I do that? I have no initiative to use… I can only auto-attack… what’s the benefit of me even switching??? There is no incentive to even do that…

Just because you can’t think of any way to leverage having immediate access to all 10 weapon skills doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be insanely powerful. You could tap into shortbow, drop a poison field on top of yourself, and then tap back to P/P for huge-duration poison from Unload, for instance. You can do this now, but only sparingly and if you’re willing to lock yourself into certain weapon sets.

It’d also mean a lot more direct skill comparisons. Disabling Shot and Dancing Dagger get to be in direct competition, for instance, once you can insta-swap over to use whichever one if on your other set.

This is a cool idea the only reason i am against it is that i like that the timer increases player skill. If you play smart you can almost feel like there is no cd for your weapon swaps. thief is one of those classes that (while people look at oh he just hs spams or w/e lies they create to make them feel better) actually have a very high skill cap. If you dont believe me try to fight some one like payne or jumper. Thief is a very rewarding class which makes it worth dealing with all the people who just call me a noob just because im a thief.

rootnode.9546:

Seriously? Make thieves more OP?

This is getting old…

I think ANet have a quite clear vision of the thief,and you(and the others) constantly repeating that mantra about OP,will get to their nerves,like it got to ours(thieves),It’s like toy are repeating :ANet,you are incompetent.Also the endless whining is flooding the few reasonable posts,that emerge once in a while.So go on….seal the state of the thief forever,assure no needles nerf will come anymore.

There are too many mechanics already in place to give binuses on weapon swap for this idea to be realistic.

Look, simple abuse :

Pick two sets of d/d

30 acrobatics with quick pockets

sigil ofhydromancy, sigil of energy on each set

> infinite stamina, mad cc, endless DB spamming

And that’s just a single example.
So, yea… make this change, just give it a few days and see how much it can be abused

muscarine.5136:

There are too many mechanics already in place to give binuses on weapon swap for this idea to be realistic.

Look, simple abuse :

Pick two sets of d/d

30 acrobatics with quick pockets

sigil ofhydromancy, sigil of energy on each set

> infinite stamina, mad cc, endless DB spamming

And that’s just a single example.
So, yea… make this change, just give it a few days and see how much it can be abused

All traits and sigils have internal cd.
All effects from stealing constantly nerf, at huge cooldown on use.
Cancel swap cd would be a great class ability.

10 sec is fine!
Thief has a problems,but it isn’t this…
It’s far more important to fix the ridiculous Body Shot and Flanking Strike.Also the channeling chasing you trough Stealth.Also the darn Last Refuge.

ZLE.8293:

10 sec is fine!
Thief has a problems,but it isn’t this…
It’s far more important to fix the ridiculous Body Shot and Flanking Strike.Also the channeling chasing you trough Stealth.Also the darn Last Refuge.

Access to the venom from the bow would be very useful for thieves with swords. Not understand the logic of that skill no cooldown, and the use of weapons is cooldown. 1-2 second cooldown would be wonderful.

@Marduh i don’t argue that no swap CD will be “very useful”,“great class ability” and “wonderful” as you put it.But it will not be balanced.Asking for unjust Buff is no different than asking for unjust Nerf.Cheers.

Marduh.4603:

All traits and sigils have internal cd.
All effects from stealing constantly nerf, at huge cooldown on use.
Cancel swap cd would be a great class ability.

The ones i listed have no cooldwon but the actual weapon swap cooldown, also, stealing is not constantly nerfed.

1st reason: On-weapon-swap sigils.

2nd reason: Quick pockets.

Do I have to provide more reasons?

pEEtrs.4320:

1st reason: On-weapon-swap sigils.

2nd reason: Quick pockets.

Do I have to provide more reasons?

I will provide 1 reason from my point of view.I am condition thief.With no swap CD i would equip S/D+P/X and with considerable ini regen which my build posses i will prety much perma-perform the following combo: Infiltrator’s Strike-C&D-Dodge-Swap-Sneak attack-Swap-Rinse and Repeat.ANyone who have played P/D condition thief knows what will be like….

read might learn something

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon_swap

rootnode.9546:

Let alone balancing the thief in general.
Highest burst damage + highest mobility + stealth and now you want to remove the cooldown on weapon swapping while also having NO cooldown on your attacks….. seems legit.

Don’t get me wrong, I love assassin classes. In Gw1 my main was an assassin and I really hoped the thief to be about the same in Gw2.

I mean, the thief is a THIEF and not an assassin. He should use tricks and acrobatics, but the included high DPS is just a joke to balancing.

That’s not a huge can of worms, that’s a truckload of cans with dragons in them.

And lowest health pool, don’t forget that!

rootnode.9546:

Don’t get me wrong, I love assassin classes. In Gw1 my main was an assassin and I really hoped the thief to be about the same in Gw2.

I mean, the thief is a THIEF and not an assassin. He should use tricks and acrobatics, but the included high DPS is just a joke to balancing.

Let me first say that i completely agree that no CD on weapon swap is a bad idea.
However when you stay that “thief is a thief and not assassin” you are completely wrong.
Thief in GW2 was originally developed as Assassin,and then almost at the end of the developing changed to Thief for purely roleplay reasons:namely Assassins are bound to the continent of Cantha.(There are 3 continents:Tyria,Cantha and Elona.)——>Thus the Thief birth and the hasty-not-so-well-developed Steal skill.Just to justify Thief’s name.Replace Steal skill with Shadowstep(in all it’s glory) and you will get the original idea of ANet.But you still can see the Assassin features in Thief class:Scorpion Wire,Caltrops,Smoke Bomb,Many masks e.t.c.Also Assassin in GW1 had equal burst builds and also the opportunity to choose from hundreds of skills.Also the high DPS is not only thief priority in GW2.Every class can scramble at least 1 bursty build.
Just pointing,that the “thief is not assassin” point is not valid.Peace.

ZLE.8293:

rootnode.9546:

Don’t get me wrong, I love assassin classes. In Gw1 my main was an assassin and I really hoped the thief to be about the same in Gw2.

I mean, the thief is a THIEF and not an assassin. He should use tricks and acrobatics, but the included high DPS is just a joke to balancing.

Let me first say that i completely agree that no CD on weapon swap is a bad idea.
However when you stay that “thief is a thief and not assassin” you are completely wrong.
Thief in GW2 was originally developed as Assassin,and then almost at the end of the developing changed to Thief for purely roleplay reasons:namely Assassins are bound to the continent of Cantha.(There are 3 continents:Tyria,Cantha and Elona.)——>Thus the Thief birth and the hasty-not-so-well-developed Steal skill.Just to justify Thief’s name.Replace Steal skill with Shadowstep(in all it’s glory) and you will get the original idea of ANet.But you still can see the Assassin features in Thief class:Scorpion Wire,Caltrops,Smoke Bomb,Many masks e.t.c.Also Assassin in GW1 had equal burst builds and also the opportunity to choose from hundreds of skills.Also the high DPS is not only thief priority in GW2.Every class can scramble at least 1 bursty build.
Just pointing,that the “thief is not assassin” point is not valid.Peace.

That’s what I meant. In the end they didn’t “plan” it as an assassin. But as you said, there are still many skills left that resemble the assassin features. And these have to go.

Raine Akrune.8416:

rootnode.9546:

Let alone balancing the thief in general.
Highest burst damage + highest mobility + stealth and now you want to remove the cooldown on weapon swapping while also having NO cooldown on your attacks….. seems legit.

Don’t get me wrong, I love assassin classes. In Gw1 my main was an assassin and I really hoped the thief to be about the same in Gw2.

I mean, the thief is a THIEF and not an assassin. He should use tricks and acrobatics, but the included high DPS is just a joke to balancing.

That’s not a huge can of worms, that’s a truckload of cans with dragons in them.

And lowest health pool, don’t forget that!

You have the same health pool as guardians and elementalists. I don’t see guardians or elementalists QQ’ing.

ZLE.8293:

I will provide 1 reason from my point of view.I am condition thief.With no swap CD i would equip S/D+P/X and with considerable ini regen which my build posses i will prety much perma-perform the following combo: Infiltrator’s Strike-C&D-Dodge-Swap-Sneak attack-Swap-Rinse and Repeat.ANyone who have played P/D condition thief knows what will be like….

And you just posted one reason why we should have same weapon swap limitations just like everybody else. No cool down on swap would just make thief ridiculously overpowered (if traited properly and with right sigils in weapons).

rootnode.9546:

Seriously? Make thieves more OP?
Consider a… Warrior, with Sword/Mace, Sword/Shield. If he swaps, he still has cooldowns o the sword skills.

I think: Swap cooldown is fine as it is.
You already said it: you have no cooldowns on your skills. Other professions do. If I cast chaos storm on my mesmer, then switch to Sword/Focus, wait for the swap cooldown and then swap back, my chaos storm is still on cooldown. And you guys don’t have that kind of problem.

Sure, I’d love to fight a thief that can constantly switch between let’s say…D/P and P/D to use the burst skills….. no, actually I wouldn’t love that.

Lol? Warriors with s/m s/s? really? OMFG man are u kidding us?
We don’t really need this…but ANet do only changes where we don’t need one, so i’m sure they do something about that XD (see preview)

To me, the skill cool down is fine and understandable. When I want to weapon swap it is for a reason. If I’m running D/D and want to switch to SB, I don’t like being locked out of the ability to switch. Presumably my next action is going to be with SB, thus the reason for switching. As it stands, I have to wait for it to let me switch… then I can do the command. Being able to switch whenever and waiting for a “global skill cooldown” is better than waiting for the green light to be able to switch the weapon. I don’t know if what I just typed makes any sense.