Guild Wars 2

First off, let me make it clear that i dont claim to be good, i dont think im good, and i miss things sometimes. Im not a complete idiot, i understand what dodging and defensive use are. I dont roll around at random or pop Spectral Armor just cause a DD is near me and stealthed. Why not? SA is a stun breaker, and its better used when im definitely taking damage so i can get life force. See? Not a complete noob. Happy?

Now on to the questions. To me it seems like DD has a little too much mobility in a 1v1, especially VS a Reaper. After checking my combat log, the majority of their damage was AA chain. That makes it seem like they managed to kill myself and my roommate using disengage tactics when they didnt have any more endurace, and AA chain. Seems a little OP no?

At that time i was in zerker with valkyrie jewelry. I switched to Dire condi build and after that i didnt get killed 1v1 for the remainder of the 4 hours i was in WvW yesterday. Now, im completely open to the idea that i missed something that i could have done, but i never got out of combat, so i couldnt change from the pure shout utility/heal/elite set i was using in the ZvZ literally 8 seconds before.

I was using Your Soul is Mine, Rise, You are All Weaklings, Nothing Can Save You, and Chilled to the Bone. Yes, RS2 has a bit of a gap close mechanic to it, but it doesnt take me nearly the 1200+ units the DD moved in the span of one RS2 CD. I imagine if i had chased he would have just stealthed with Blinding Power and S5 leap finisher.

That DD was using S+P/P. He immediately went from a point A to B at least 7 times that fight, which is perfectly possible given the animation rendering issues making roll dash look like a “teleport.” But heres a bit of a kicker. A couple of the times, within 15 seconds of each other, he moved at least 2000 units literally immediately. Right next to me, then suddenly over there. No lag, no missed animations, just instant literal teleportation. Ive noticed a bunch of people in the current WvW rotation against my world that are almost undoubtedly using teleport hacks, and its all from that DD’s guild. Keep in mind i saw a revenant go from one base to another, immediately, to intercept me after i dropped off a small cliff. One of his teammates had downed one of mine, and saw me coming to help. He went from base to base in an instant, and it was either lag or multiple small teleports that had him jittering around whenever i was going to so much as AA him with RS1.

Well. In a Thief point of view, necromancer is a walking fortress that can instantly spam damage on our feet.

Reason that people spam AA on you is because Necromancers can’t be bursted down. Our AA is most of the time our best DPS option against a target that moves.

For the rest, I sorry to say that’s entirely a build issue.

A standard powermancer without reaper can easily kill a Thief using Wells and ranged attacks (DS AA is 1200 range, despite being slow, and the 4 skill can’t be dodged). I tell for experience since I main a Necro as well and I never had much of an issue against Thiefs.

Lack of mobility is, sadly, a characteristic of necromancers at the same time that is Thiefs strong point. Can’t really complain here.
If you think the other way around, Thiefs don’t have the same damage contribution and capability of eating damage as Necros.

It’s almost as if a Reaper has been thematically designed to be a slow-moving powerhouse and thus shouldn’t easily pursue a profession designed to be mobile as its sole source of survival outside of Stealth.

But what you are describing definitely sounds like teleport hacking. Seen plenty of that in PvP recently.

Auesis.7301:

It’s almost as if a Reaper has been thematically designed to be a slow-moving powerhouse and thus shouldn’t easily pursue a profession designed to be mobile as its sole source of survival outside of Stealth.

Its almost as if this is obvious from the available tool kit and maybe you should try to be constructive and add information instead of calling other people stupid. Im rather aware that im not going to be chasing anyone down as a Reaper. I never said, nor implied, otherwise. :\

SoulSin.5682:

Well. In a Thief point of view, necromancer is a walking fortress that can instantly spam damage on our feet.

Reason that people spam AA on you is because Necromancers can’t be bursted down. Our AA is most of the time our best DPS option against a target that moves.

For the rest, I sorry to say that’s entirely a build issue.

A standard powermancer without reaper can easily kill a Thief using Wells and ranged attacks (DS AA is 1200 range, despite being slow, and the 4 skill can’t be dodged). I tell for experience since I main a Necro as well and I never had much of an issue against Thiefs.

Lack of mobility is, sadly, a characteristic of necromancers at the same time that is Thiefs strong point. Can’t really complain here.
If you think the other way around, Thiefs don’t have the same damage contribution and capability of eating damage as Necros.

Yeah i figured as much, i kept going for CC on various thieves when i saw them come out of stealth around me. Usually they rolled but hey, cant expect to have an “I win button.”

I agree, i had a serious build malfunction in regards to 1v1 combat. However the shouts along with warhorn 4/5 and GS 5 give rather handy group support. As i said, was in a ZvZ with no time to switch build aspects to more effectively handle a 1v1. No argument there. Is DareDevil mobility OP? As a necro (reaper or not), should i expect to get my butt handed to me by a high mobility build Thief if my utility skills/weapons arent suited to bashing face when hes closer range? I tried getting a GS 5 on him. Unfortunately the only longer range CC that i had is really easy to dodge. Even CTtB is easy to dodge, especially if you expect it. Didnt really have a reliable way to make him dodge more than 3 times.

xavios.3601:

Auesis.7301:

It’s almost as if a Reaper has been thematically designed to be a slow-moving powerhouse and thus shouldn’t easily pursue a profession designed to be mobile as its sole source of survival outside of Stealth.

Its almost as if this is obvious from the available tool kit and maybe you should try to be constructive and add information instead of calling other people stupid. Im rather aware that im not going to be chasing anyone down as a Reaper. I never said, nor implied, otherwise. :\

No one is implying you are anything. We are just affirming that your class isn’t meant to chase anything.

Your best bet against thief on WvW is to burst then down on a single breath.
If they survive and cast Shadow Refuge, you need to spam AoEs in that area and kill it before it can leave the circle.

In an advanced tactic, you can intentionaly drag the fight long enough to make the waste Shadow Step so it makes then hard to run. Believe me, you have enough health to do that.

SoulSin.5682:

No one is implying you are anything. We are just affirming that your class isn’t meant to chase anything.

Your best bet against thief on WvW is to burst then down on a single breath.
If they survive and cast Shadow Refuge, you need to spam AoEs in that area and kill it before it can leave the circle.

In an advanced tactic, you can intentionaly drag the fight long enough to make the waste Shadow Step so it makes then hard to run. Believe me, you have enough health to do that.

I drug the fights out between myself and anyone who went 1v1 with me, after i switched to Dire condi. That particular Thief wasnt even running SR. He was using Infiltrators Signet, Blinding Powder, and Shadow Step. Doesnt surprise me seeing as the sheer amount of mobility and interrupt coverage from S+P/P means he shouldnt need to heal if he can kite. At least thats how i understand it. Of course i can be wrong.

As i also have figured, having no toughness against an AA chain that did 6-9k crit damage in a rotation or two was a mistake. Just doesnt seem like a winnable fight cause they will just stay out of my range until their endurance comes back if they are that hard pressed for evading. Its almost as if Reaper cannot win with GS/RS against any good DareDevil. I dont see that as fair. Then again, i still havent figured out if there really are hard counters. A high mobility class being a hard counter to a hard hitting, slower hitting class sounds pretty par for the course.

xavios.3601:

SoulSin.5682:

No one is implying you are anything. We are just affirming that your class isn’t meant to chase anything.

Your best bet against thief on WvW is to burst then down on a single breath.
If they survive and cast Shadow Refuge, you need to spam AoEs in that area and kill it before it can leave the circle.

In an advanced tactic, you can intentionaly drag the fight long enough to make the waste Shadow Step so it makes then hard to run. Believe me, you have enough health to do that.

I drug the fights out between myself and anyone who went 1v1 with me, after i switched to Dire condi. That particular Thief wasnt even running SR. He was using Infiltrators Signet, Blinding Powder, and Shadow Step. Doesnt surprise me seeing as the sheer amount of mobility and interrupt coverage from S+P/P means he shouldnt need to heal if he can kite. At least thats how i understand it. Of course i can be wrong.

As i also have figured, having no toughness against an AA chain that did 6-9k crit damage in a rotation or two was a mistake. Just doesnt seem like a winnable fight cause they will just stay out of my range until their endurance comes back if they are that hard pressed for evading. Its almost as if Reaper cannot win with GS/RS against any good DareDevil. I dont see that as fair. Then again, i still havent figured out if there really are hard counters. A high mobility class being a hard counter to a hard hitting, slower hitting class sounds pretty par for the course.

Dire is always a nice choice for Necro on WvW. No shame on it.

When I mentioned to kill the thief in a single breath I was talking about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRz-BgRHJgw

SoulSin.5682:

Dire is always a nice choice for Necro on WvW. No shame on it.

When I mentioned to kill the thief in a single breath I was talking about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRz-BgRHJgw

Yeah i got a couple 12k+ Gravedigger’s in the ZvZ with 7-9 might stacks. i dont know how good his opponents were in that video, though. Considerings its Hollts he could probably beat me with nothing but weps and jewelry on.

xavios.3601:

Seems a little OP no?

If you’re having trouble with thieves as a necro. I’m sorry. But this is a learn to play issue.

Either you’re bad at playing a necromancer or the thief was super human. I doubt the latter.

Necro/Reaper is the number one class at the moment. Thieves/Daredevil is closer to the bottom of the chain.

Suddenly one thief outsmarts you and the entire class is OP. Yeah. No.

You’re conflating teleport hacks and DD mobility in one complaint thread. This is not a valid objection to DD.

Azure Prower.8701:

xavios.3601:

Seems a little OP no?

If you’re having trouble with thieves as a necro. I’m sorry. But this is a learn to play issue.

Either you’re bad at playing a necromancer or the thief was super human. I doubt the latter.

Necro/Reaper is the number one class at the moment. Thieves/Daredevil is closer to the bottom of the chain.

Suddenly one thief outsmarts you and the entire class is OP. Yeah. No.

OR, and this might blow your puny mind, i might need to learn the counters for the new specialization. Which, is exactly what ive said is entirely possible. Its why i came here for advice. Now go on with your nonsense somewhere else. Really should be against forum ToS to give replies like that. Youre not helping anything. Telling someone who asks for advice to play better to “l2p” is as useful as the department of redundancy department.

Should also be obvious to the smarter of our species that a false dichotomy is a logical fallacy. Theres more possibilities than “complete crap at necro” or “super human pixel functions.” Seeing as ive played a thief for more hours than anything else, i have 0 issues with non DD, even as zerker necro/reaper.

GreyWraith.8394:

You’re conflating teleport hacks and DD mobility in one complaint thread. This is not a valid objection to DD.

Im not a) complaining, or b) conflating anything. You interpreted it that way because the two paragraphs are in the same OP. Youre not making a valid objection to my reasoning. See how this works?

Side note here, but i saw that same DD in a ZvZ. I was kicking his little buttocks until he decided to run. Guess he shouldnt steal right into a RS5>Blood is power. 3k bleed ticks on 13k hp really hurts, you know.

S/* thief has always been that mobile. You have Infiltrator’s Signet (900), Shadow step (1200), Steal (1200), and Infiltrator’s Arrow (900)+weapon swap. Any one of those followed or preceded by Infiltrator’s Return (1200) is seemingly one shadow step over 2000+ range. The thief just has to do it in the right order such that there is an Infiltrator’s Return spot near or greater than max range away from you.

It’s not teleport or speed hacking. I used to get accused of the same thing when I played S/D all the time in PvP. It just shows the person doesn’t know thief very well. +1 for asking instead of raging and or requesting a thief nerf!

As other posters have noted, this is implicit in the reaper’s design. in general anet has said in the past that they try to design classes/builds with some core flaws and weaknesses (in reality they are kind of spotty on implementing this design goal)

The thief’s weakness is pure burst damage. No matter how you build a thief, landing solid CC and applying one good burst chain will usually equal a dead thief. The thief mitigates his weakness by having a lot of ways to disengage from fights and avoid those bursts.

The Reaper’s primary weakness is a lack of mobility. The ability to successfully out-kite a reaper usually results in a dead reaper. The reaper mitigates his weakness by having big spike damage, lots of durability, and access to debilitating conditions and pulls to counter kiting and put the enemy in his danger zone.

The problem you’re experiencing is actually an example of anet’s intended balance at work. DD is a spec designed to very nearly hard counter a reaper is the DD plays better than the reaper. Meanwhile, reaper is designed to very nearly hard counter ele, whos core weakness is being spammed with debilitating conditions, as it screws up their damage, mobility, and defense rotations that are highly susceptible to debilitating conditions due to the mechanics of attunements. The counter-train spirals on from there with various degrees of success. Some build’s “core weaknesses” aren’t weak enough, and some classes’ “core strengths” aren’t strong enough, but the basic goal anet has expressed for design seems to be where they like it for reaper.

Somewhat confused at what this thread is meant to say you got caught out with a zerg build against a daredevil and lost then later switched to a build better suited for 1 vs 1s and did better? Staying in melee with nothing up is suicide there is no free invuls, blocks, passive defense or second health bar to help sustain thief like every other class in the game. Reaper can dish out some silly damage, falls under the highest health bracket and that health is extended more with shroud if you are not expecting daredevil’s to use mobility to disengage when they are out of dodges not sure what to say. Smart play by the thief for knowing when to go in and when to back out props to them.

As for teleports you said they had shadowstep (1200 units), inf signet (900 units), steal (1200 units) and using sword (600 units) which makes the total ground possible to cover in a second 3900 units if you use all of them at the same time. This also allows them to teleport with ireturn (1200 units) and the return on shadowstep (1200 units) back to the spots they were used at add in getting lucky with improv and I can see a whole lot of ports. Depends if your suddenly over there means they ported back where they were or somewhere else for the whole “teleport hack” thing. If it is a hack then I don’t see the point in this thread even more considering it’s about daredevil’s mobility vs a slow pocket nuke.

Seems like the first fight was just a bad build matchup being stuck with zerg orientated utilities but at the same time if the thief made a mistake they would lose pretty fast regardless see your later example of stealing into RS5 > Blood is Power for that fine line.

“Its almost as if Reaper cannot win with GS/RS against any good DareDevil. I dont see that as fair.”

It is ok thief barely has any good matchups against even skilled players these days and Anet considers that to be fine. Thief is the last class you want to be talking about fair class matchups.

WingedWolfy.5621:

It is ok thief barely has any good matchups against even skilled players these days and Anet considers that to be fine. Thief is the last class you want to be talking about fair class matchups.

Thank you very much for your polite and informative response. Always looking to learn how to play better. I guess that its fair that DD can hard counter GS reaper to a point. It is a little annoying when a few specific thieves decided they will always come after you and only you when they see you, and you cannot win unless THEY make a mistake. Alas, thats the name of the balance game. Its understandable.

PopeUrban.2578:

As other posters have noted, this is implicit in the reaper’s design. in general anet has said in the past that they try to design classes/builds with some core flaws and weaknesses (in reality they are kind of spotty on implementing this design goal)

The problem you’re experiencing is actually an example of anet’s intended balance at work. DD is a spec designed to very nearly hard counter a reaper is the DD plays better than the reaper.

That makes alot of sense. I was ready to accept that i am just terrible against DD’s. I dont have all that much PVP experience, and i dont expect to be able to win against people who have loads of it. I came across impassable odds, from my point of view, and asked for advice. Looks like the Thief’s supposed teleport hacking in that case was just a misunderstanding. However, i DID see a thief with the exact same clothing look teleport from a wall of their base to the bridge near ANZ, and then back to the wall of their keep. So, at least some members of that guild DEFINITELY use teleport hacks. I tried to get people in TeamSpeak to watch and report them, but they were understandably too busy fighting ZvZ near the bridge.