Guild Wars 2

S/P needs work, but adding a leap finisher to Inf Strike is not the way. It’s already an amazing ability. Gap closing immob for 3 init that set up a stunbreaking, condition cleansing retreat move? Its the only thing I miss about Sword MH.

The Immob from Inf strike + stealth would = effortless back arc strikes with tactical strike.

I would like a weapon set that doesn’t have to rely on stealth to be successful, unfortunately, due to the nature of the thief and it’s squishiness, S/P is hard to work. I think the best way to buff this class to make it useful yet not “OP” is to change blind totally. It should blind for the duration of the condition, not for one hit. Of course this could already render extremely powerful builds like D/P OP, but I feel like D/P is going to be changed in the future, anyhow.

I also think the stun time on pistol whip needs a buff, or let us move while S/P is activated.

style.6173:

Doomdesire.9365:

I would like a weapon set that doesn’t have to rely on stealth to be successful, unfortunately, due to the nature of the thief and it’s squishiness, S/P is hard to work. I think the best way to buff this class to make it useful yet not “OP” is to change blind totally. It should blind for the duration of the condition, not for one hit. Of course this could already render extremely powerful builds like D/P OP, but I feel like D/P is going to be changed in the future, anyhow.

I also think the stun time on pistol whip needs a buff, or let us move while S/P is activated.

Or reduce the cast time for Pistol Whip

Personally I think the first caste time(the pistol part) is fine since you can move around and make it work, but the second cast time(when you start to swing the sword) is long enough so that at some point the enemy can just move out easily.

I would like to see the first part of the animation sped up perhaps. This would increase the percentage time you’re evading and overall dps. The ability could be changed to hit up to a maximum of 5 targets instead of 3 as well, although the thief could really do with some better aoe options with melee weapons.

Doomdesire.9365:

I would like a weapon set that doesn’t have to rely on stealth to be successful, unfortunately, due to the nature of the thief and it’s squishiness, S/P is hard to work. I think the best way to buff this class to make it useful yet not “OP” is to change blind totally. It should blind for the duration of the condition, not for one hit. Of course this could already render extremely powerful builds like D/P OP, but I feel like D/P is going to be changed in the future, anyhow.

I also think the stun time on pistol whip needs a buff, or let us move while S/P is activated.

I think changing blinds from an inverse aegis to an inverse invul is a bad idea. It would quite literally make my S/D build invincible at melee range.

Terrible idea…
IS as a leap finisher would be crazy OP…
Blind not going away on attacks would be insane OP, even if they didnt stack in duration.

S/P is a good set now, maybe some work on PW to improve time or dmg, but even as it is is a good skill to use…

S/P is not a burst dmg set, is more controll and sustain dmg set.
You can perma blind groups of trash mob and autoattack them to death, helps the group also. You can tank with PW spam if timed right to evade boss (blind imune/10%) attacks, etc… On most bosses IS/PW/SR work wonders to deliver dmg and recover from stuns and conds.

D/P is a good solo set, but not so nice in groups due to combo overlaping that can mess up your stealth.

D/D is still a good ST dmg dealer if you dont need to worry about evading much.

lLobo.7960:

Terrible idea…
IS as a leap finisher would be crazy OP…
Blind not going away on attacks would be insane OP, even if they didnt stack in duration.

S/P is a good set now, maybe some work on PW to improve time or dmg, but even as it is is a good skill to use…

S/P is not a burst dmg set, is more controll and sustain dmg set.
You can perma blind groups of trash mob and autoattack them to death, helps the group also. You can tank with PW spam if timed right to evade boss (blind imune/10%) attacks, etc… On most bosses IS/PW/SR work wonders to deliver dmg and recover from stuns and conds.

D/P is a good solo set, but not so nice in groups due to combo overlaping that can mess up your stealth.

D/D is still a good ST dmg dealer if you dont need to worry about evading much.

You’re talking PVE, I believe most of the thieves here are implying PVP situations. The first obvious disadvantage is the fact that S/P is not stealth specced, which is perfectly fine imo. And the fact that it’s not stealth specced, makes it a lil more advanced for whoever wants to play it. But what’s disappointing is the dmg, and the skill options of S/P. And lets keep in mind this is the #1 skill set with the most demanding initiatives.

bladie.5084:

lLobo.7960:

Terrible idea…
IS as a leap finisher would be crazy OP…
Blind not going away on attacks would be insane OP, even if they didnt stack in duration.

S/P is a good set now, maybe some work on PW to improve time or dmg, but even as it is is a good skill to use…

S/P is not a burst dmg set, is more controll and sustain dmg set.
You can perma blind groups of trash mob and autoattack them to death, helps the group also. You can tank with PW spam if timed right to evade boss (blind imune/10%) attacks, etc… On most bosses IS/PW/SR work wonders to deliver dmg and recover from stuns and conds.

D/P is a good solo set, but not so nice in groups due to combo overlaping that can mess up your stealth.

D/D is still a good ST dmg dealer if you dont need to worry about evading much.

You’re talking PVE, I believe most of the thieves here are implying PVP situations. The first obvious disadvantage is the fact that S/P is not stealth specced, which is perfectly fine imo. And the fact that it’s not stealth specced, makes it a lil more advanced for whoever wants to play it. But what’s disappointing is the dmg, and the skill options of S/P. And lets keep in mind this is the #1 skill set with the most demanding initiatives.

Exactly. Blinds are useless against people who actually move (non PvE). And yes, my comments are focused around PvP and WvW.

Here is what people who think this will make it OP do not understand. You CANNOT spam this. Add up the initiative usage and you will see. You would still end up with a skill that is less effective that D/P but at least it makes S/P more viable.

style.6173:

evilapprentice.6379:

S/P needs work, but adding a leap finisher to Inf Strike is not the way. It’s already an amazing ability. Gap closing immob for 3 init that set up a stunbreaking, condition cleansing retreat move? Its the only thing I miss about Sword MH.

The Immob from Inf strike + stealth would = effortless back arc strikes with tactical strike.

I probably should have showed the initiative use to better clarify my point. I was hoping people would understand what I meant. Anyway, you cannot spam IS/SR. You’d have one chance at it. Once you go stealth, you will have used up most of your initiative. As I mentioned, D/P is a way better weapon set right now. Why not even it a bit?

Same thing with D/P, and I don’t have any problems using BP->HS for stealth most of the time. Once you get the playstyle down (and if you trait right), the ability to stealth on demand is powerful enough to overcome the extreme cost.

Its also worth noting that IS has no cast time – this seems silly, but better players will attempt to KD/KB/Launch me from outside my BP they second they see it – even I’ve started my HS, if I get CC’d before the animation finishes, I’m out 9 initiative, CC’d, and have no stealth. With IS, this won’t be an option. You can also choose to IS without a target (meaning you’ll stealth in place), which can be considered an advantage compared to HS.

Increase base duration and stack “intensity” so that a 2 stack would negate 2 hits…etc etc

style.6173:

bladie.5084:

lLobo.7960:

Terrible idea…
IS as a leap finisher would be crazy OP…
Blind not going away on attacks would be insane OP, even if they didnt stack in duration.

S/P is a good set now, maybe some work on PW to improve time or dmg, but even as it is is a good skill to use…

S/P is not a burst dmg set, is more controll and sustain dmg set.
You can perma blind groups of trash mob and autoattack them to death, helps the group also. You can tank with PW spam if timed right to evade boss (blind imune/10%) attacks, etc… On most bosses IS/PW/SR work wonders to deliver dmg and recover from stuns and conds.

D/P is a good solo set, but not so nice in groups due to combo overlaping that can mess up your stealth.

D/D is still a good ST dmg dealer if you dont need to worry about evading much.

You’re talking PVE, I believe most of the thieves here are implying PVP situations. The first obvious disadvantage is the fact that S/P is not stealth specced, which is perfectly fine imo. And the fact that it’s not stealth specced, makes it a lil more advanced for whoever wants to play it. But what’s disappointing is the dmg, and the skill options of S/P. And lets keep in mind this is the #1 skill set with the most demanding initiatives.

Exactly. Blinds are useless against people who actually move (non PvE). And yes, my comments are focused around PvP and WvW.

Here is what people who think this will make it OP do not understand. You CANNOT spam this. Add up the initiative usage and you will see. You would still end up with a skill that is less effective that D/P but at least it makes S/P more viable.

The reason Blinds would be OP’d is the trait Cloaked in Shadows. As an S/P thief you may not be familiar with it, but with his little gem, a thief with Cloak and Dagger can proc 5 second blinds on everyone in a 240 radius every time they stealth. Which is every 3 seconds.

Adaneshade.2409:

Increase base duration and stack “intensity” so that a 2 stack would negate 2 hits…etc etc

Inconceivable.

They designed all the abilities that generate blind under the impression that blind stacks duration, not intensity. You can’t just have it suddenly stack intensity without breaking a ton of abilities.

style.6173:

As it stands right now, this is probably the weakest of the thief weapon sets (even more so than P/P). So I’ve been thinking about easy ways to fix it. So here is my crazy idea:

Add a leap finisher to Infiltrator’s Strike

This would add a whole new mechanic to the weapon set. You would have a way to access stealth, but it would be less efficient than the D/P combo. It would be fun to see some more people actually using S/P.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

First- yeah, it’s not quite the same thing as the baller set you’ll get from D/D. It just doesn’t do quite as much damage.

However, as a long-time Sword lover, and, particularly, S/P, I think that you honestly just don’t know how to use the set. For one thing, it’s much more of a graceful, hit-and-run, Shadowstep-Pistol Whip-Shadowstep Away deal than a “ermahgerd I’m gonna go right up to my enemy and spam Backstab/Heartseeker/LDB lol”.

S/P is also a much more survivable set than most others (I think SB might- might- be the exception). It comes with two automatic interrupts, a cheap shadowstep and condition removal, amazing kiting options (seriously, S/P could practically be considered a ranged weapon set, if it weren’t for the fact that you can’t teleport up keep walls and the like), and some pretty nice, sustainable bursting. D/D only has some good bursting and nice damage- but that’s it. It’s a much riskier weaponset that can be immensely rewarding, but is very likely to also get you absolutely murdered. S/P gives you, I think, a small advantage over a very, very long period of time, and, unless your opponent doesn’t know what he/she’s doing, will be very likely to get them stomped before they even realize it.

Maybe you’re a masochistic gambler that likes to take insane risks, but S/P is a fantastic weaponset because it deals great, sustainable damage, condition removal, kiting, etc, unlike D/D.

I really hate that so few people use S/P like I do (actually, I’ve been using some more D/D builds recently, but I think I’m going to switch back to my strong and standard 0/20/20/15/15 build soon). I think that people just go to the thief with a very narrow mindset. I came to the thief for the shadowsteps, and that’s how I got into S/P.

Arganthium.5638:

style.6173:

As it stands right now, this is probably the weakest of the thief weapon sets (even more so than P/P). So I’ve been thinking about easy ways to fix it. So here is my crazy idea:

Add a leap finisher to Infiltrator’s Strike

This would add a whole new mechanic to the weapon set. You would have a way to access stealth, but it would be less efficient than the D/P combo. It would be fun to see some more people actually using S/P.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

First- yeah, it’s not quite the same thing as the baller set you’ll get from D/D. It just doesn’t do quite as much damage.

However, as a long-time Sword lover, and, particularly, S/P, I think that you honestly just don’t know how to use the set. For one thing, it’s much more of a graceful, hit-and-run, Shadowstep-Pistol Whip-Shadowstep Away deal than a “ermahgerd I’m gonna go right up to my enemy and spam Backstab/Heartseeker/LDB lol”.

S/P is also a much more survivable set than most others (I think SB might- might- be the exception). It comes with two automatic interrupts, a cheap shadowstep and condition removal, amazing kiting options (seriously, S/P could practically be considered a ranged weapon set, if it weren’t for the fact that you can’t teleport up keep walls and the like), and some pretty nice, sustainable bursting. D/D only has some good bursting and nice damage- but that’s it. It’s a much riskier weaponset that can be immensely rewarding, but is very likely to also get you absolutely murdered. S/P gives you, I think, a small advantage over a very, very long period of time, and, unless your opponent doesn’t know what he/she’s doing, will be very likely to get them stomped before they even realize it.

Maybe you’re a masochistic gambler that likes to take insane risks, but S/P is a fantastic weaponset because it deals great, sustainable damage, condition removal, kiting, etc, unlike D/D.

I really hate that so few people use S/P like I do (actually, I’ve been using some more D/D builds recently, but I think I’m going to switch back to my strong and standard 0/20/20/15/15 build soon). I think that people just go to the thief with a very narrow mindset. I came to the thief for the shadowsteps, and that’s how I got into S/P.

You prove the point though. If S/P is so good, why does no one use it? The answer is that it is weak. D/D, D/P, S/D, P/D are all stronger builds. The only one that is comparable is maybe P/P.

Something really needs to be done to make the weapon set more effective.

style.6173:

You prove the point though. If S/P is so good, why does no one use it? The answer is that it is weak.

Nah, people are just ignorant copypasters and are too lazy to try out new things.
S/P is absolutely fine as it is now.

The only way to make S/P viable is if they increased SoM’s heal like they did necromancer’s minion heal and added an internal cool-down.

style.6173:

Fhaeris.9237:

style.6173:

You prove the point though. If S/P is so good, why does no one use it? The answer is that it is weak.

Nah, people are just ignorant copypasters and are too lazy to try out new things.
S/P is absolutely fine as it is now.

Ok. Post your videos of you beating any of the other weapon sets. Feel free to post you against a D/D, P/D, D/P, or S/D.

S/P is only decent in PvE against enemies that do not move.

I lol’d so hard.
Implying S/P can’t win.
Is this WvW talk?

evilapprentice.6379:

style.6173:

evilapprentice.6379:

S/P needs work, but adding a leap finisher to Inf Strike is not the way. It’s already an amazing ability. Gap closing immob for 3 init that set up a stunbreaking, condition cleansing retreat move? Its the only thing I miss about Sword MH.

The Immob from Inf strike + stealth would = effortless back arc strikes with tactical strike.

I probably should have showed the initiative use to better clarify my point. I was hoping people would understand what I meant. Anyway, you cannot spam IS/SR. You’d have one chance at it. Once you go stealth, you will have used up most of your initiative. As I mentioned, D/P is a way better weapon set right now. Why not even it a bit?

Same thing with D/P, and I don’t have any problems using BP->HS for stealth most of the time. Once you get the playstyle down (and if you trait right), the ability to stealth on demand is powerful enough to overcome the extreme cost.

Its also worth noting that IS has no cast time – this seems silly, but better players will attempt to KD/KB/Launch me from outside my BP they second they see it – even I’ve started my HS, if I get CC’d before the animation finishes, I’m out 9 initiative, CC’d, and have no stealth. With IS, this won’t be an option. You can also choose to IS without a target (meaning you’ll stealth in place), which can be considered an advantage compared to HS.

A couple of misconceptions in this post:

IS + BP is NOT spammable simply by virtue of its shadow return component costing another 2 ini. Even with the ini on stealth trait it will cost 6 + 1 + 2 ini before you can spend 3 ini to use it again. I don’t think spending all your initiative to use it a skill a second time can be considered spam. Contrast this with HS + BP, which is just 6 + 1 ini and you can see that the OP makes a fair point.

And IS is NOT an instant cast skill. The associated shadow return is, but the IS opener itself cannot be activated while CC’d, and CAN be interrupted during its brief starting animation, although the window for interrupting it is minuscule compared to heartseeker.

Mesmer sword 3 works similarly to IS and is a DOUBLE leap finisher, so I really don’t think adding a leap to the Infiltrator opening is as absurd as everybody here seems to think.

It will give more playstyle options to S/P players without imbalancing the other sword set S/D due to its lack of a weapon based combo field. I’d say it would make a fairly reasonable addition.

s/p is viable against newbs and zergs but not against equally skilled players. Or at least, not efficient.

oops double post

For PvP, yeh S/D is miles ahead of S/P. I do still use S/P as my PvE kit though for tanking dungeons etc.

Sword/pistol is still amazing for pve content when there are critters to cleave and you need that extra stunbreak/cleanse on Infiltrators Strike. For single enemy, dagger/pistol without a doubt. Bring the right tools for the right job….

Tempest Darqmane.4862:

Sword/pistol is still amazing for pve content when there are critters to cleave and you need that extra stunbreak/cleanse on Infiltrators Strike. For single enemy, dagger/pistol without a doubt. Bring the right tools for the right job….

Thief already has the narrowest weaponset choices of any class in the game (Due to Engi kits and Ele attunements). All of our weapons should have both PvP and PvE applications.