Guild Wars 2

30% cooldown on steal via 30 points in trickery trait line.
20% cooldown on steal via sleight of hand in grandmaster trait trickery.

Given : Steal’s base cooldown is 35 seconds.

30% + 20% = 50%

50% = .5

35 × .5 = X

X = 17.5

Final Cooldown on steal should be 17.5 seconds.

Can anyone tell me why stealth is 21 seconds? this is a total cooldown of 46.67%.

I can see why some would say thakittens deducted concurrently rather than consecutively but it doesnt read as such. IF that were the case it would say “take and ADDITIONAL 20% off the cooldown of steal” under the description. so either we have more typo problems or ANET fails at math :P

Another way of looking at it is the concurrent multiplicative way. so you take one of the deductions then follow it with the 2nd from the firsts sum

35 × .7 = 24.5 (30% reduce from 30 trait line points)

24.5 × .8 = 19.6 (20% from the sleight of hand)

TL:DR : steal should be 17.5 or 19.6 seconds no matter how you look at it.

Yeah, What you said. 21s doesn’t make sense any way you apply the math.

you getting 21 secs too?

Yeah, I get the exact same results. I made a post in the bug forum a few minutes ago. Try posting replies to get our thief fixed faster!

It even says 17.5 seconds on the tool-tip (with the SoH trait equipped), hopefully it will be hot-fixed so we don’t have to wait another month just for a small fix.

yeah i know. this is the only reason s/d is still playable in my opinion. without that stun break we need steal to be a backup for when we get stunned. trying a 10 30 0 0 30 build right now. using zerk gear but might try rampager

Trickery DOESN’T decrease cooldown, it increases your steal recharge rate. Check description if you dont believe me. So if you somehow had 100 points in trickery your steal cooldown would be only halved. 30 points give you 23% cooldown reduction (1-1/1.3), so 21,5 is correct cooldown, it’s tooltip that says wrong.

I don’t know what you’re on about it shows steal at 17.5 seconds for me on the tooltip.

nyuuneechan you are wrong. anets math is right they just coded it wrong. here ill show you bud. look at tooltip. like i said 17.5 secs

so trickery DOES decrease cooldown. let me break it down for you…
first i will say their linguistic and grammatical skills are kitten poor at best not that im taking much effort to make mine top notch for quick posts but yeah u know.

recharge rate: the SPEED at which a cooldown takes place. think of this as a bar being depleted over time. timing that bar you come up with a number.

this means that increasing the recharge rate makes the rate at which it depletes go faster.

0% increased skill recharge rate = base cooldown = 35 seconds

30% increased skill recharge rate = 35seconds X .7

At 30 trickery, the recharge rate becomes 130%, so the cooldown becomes 35*100/130 = 27 seconds. Apply 20% reduction and it becomes 27 * 0.8 = 21.5 seconds.

@frans wrong. ….again look at the pic i posted. plus the math above. its correct and everything points to that. heres 2 to prove it lol.

heres another with out the sleight of hand and only 30 in trickery.

so again as i said my math is right and so is theirs. the coding was done incorrectly. tis a bug and thats it.

EDIT: you guys that dont agree are just misreading/misinfering their kitten poor english/grammar

Tooltip says 17.5 seconds. It is not 17.5 seconds. Therefore, it needs to be changed. That’s the end of it.

Travlane.5948:

so again as i said my math is right and so is theirs. the coding was done incorrectly. tis a bug and thats it.

EDIT: you guys that dont agree are just misreading/misinfering their kitten poor english/grammar

Either one of you could be right TBH, maybe the tool tip is wrong (not unheard of in this game) , then again maybe not…

LOL Travlane, you know what this crappy “INCREASING” recharge rate has been here since released and every classes suffered this. And why are you just starting crying now?

ok if it said the base recharge rate is 100%. 100% of x? what is X? x is unspecified so it can only be considered X. so a rate of recharge is the base X. you cant say its 100%. when he says 100% he means the base recharge rate. so its really the recharge rate is 30% faster. so you can say its 1.3 or 130%. basically its 30% faster than it is now. x is basically 35. the rate of cooldown is x and x takes 35 seconds. math is all about definitions. so fortunately the way it supposed to be is 17.5 secs or 24.5 depending on trait\s

crying? sorry son i dont think u understand thatt word :P im pointing out an error/bug. no matter HOW you look at it there IS a bug/error. hard to read your comment too by the way.

wtf does this mean: “you know what this crappy “INCREASING” recharge rate has been here since released and every classes suffered this.” ?

anyway i was looking forward to 17.5 seconds as the tooltip says bc they took away our stun break on s/d. and this basically gives us a safety for when we are stuned we can still stun back.

You should have said this bug 10 months ago not just now. And this bug is not just affect Thief alone, Engi, Guardian and Mesmer suffered the same thing.

really? its always been 31.5 secs for me. which is 45x .7 sooo yeah. its worked before. HELL so cant say for other classes

The tooltip has been bug since the game released. You just didn’t know it.

so it matched before the patch for us now it doesnt? and the tooltip is bugged in general? or just on what? mind if u specify? i know for a fact steal always said 31 seconds before the patch with 30 in trickery. this is the first time ive noticed a bug. im so familiar with it that i noticed it withing minutes of logging after the patch. :P

Eh, i will try to explain it as easy as possible now. So we have 3 men making pizza.

1. Does it at normal rate
2. Does it 50% faster
3. Needs 50% less time for making pizza
   So by the time first man finishes pizza, second one will have already 1,5 pizza and third will have 2 pizzas.
   First man represents normal cooldown unaffected by anything.
   Second man demonstrates how increasing recharge rate works ( so investing points into trickstrery)
   Third man shows how cooldown reduction works ( new grandmaster trait)

If you had only those 30 points invested without grandmaster trait you would be able to use steal 13 times when someone without them would be able to use it only 10 times.

JON! plz define “recharge rate” if u dont mind. since “increasing” makes it sound like its going to be longer :P

17.5s would be to strong… first thing i thought was "oh no … now we are way to strong and get hit by the nerf bat next patch.

the way its now is good

Wait, a dev in the thief forum? What kind of sorcery is this?

@geiir lol yeah. wierd that it was 31 seconds from 45 before the patch…….. wonder why it changed?

So Jon, how does it feel to have a very large portion of your player base hate the changes you made to every profession?

Fade.7658:

So Jon, how does it feel to have a very large portion of your player base hate the changes you made to every profession?

speak for yourself.
only change I dont like is the necro corrupt boon nerf.

Brando.1374:

Fade.7658:

So Jon, how does it feel to have a very large portion of your player base hate the changes you made to every profession?

speak for yourself.
only change I dont like is the necro corrupt boon nerf.

Check out the other profession’s forums. I’m not speaking for myself.

JonPeters.5630:

This is an error in how the tooltip has been calculated on all profession mechanic recharge trait lines. We will be fixing this in the next hot fix build.

LOLOLOLOLOL I CAN NOT STOP LAUGHING AT YOU!

Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.

@fade lol hes a game designer but i think hes NOT on the balancing team wh ich is in charge of all the changes. he prolly has to veto/ratify power but not on the actual change team.

@jon i get that but its also misleading bc the recharge rate is like a speed rather than an actual time.

basically its a “you gain X% per Y time”

so 35 seconds = 100% fully recharged skill.

this means that the true rate of recharge is 1 second = 2.857 % of the skill being fully recharged.

to increase that “rate of recharge” you would have to increase the 2.857% by an additional 30% or basically 2.857 × 1.3 (because its really a decrease in total time)

so with 30 in trickery you get 3.714% of total recharge per 1 second of time passed.

AKA 100/3.714 =26.925 total time for steal to recharge.

your TRUE rate of recharge at base is 1 second = 2.857 %

TL DR : RATE OF RECHARGE for any given f mechanic should be 1 second = 2.857 %

Lucky Shot.7650:

Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.

He is a designer, not a developer. Big difference. He’s way below a developer.

JonPeters.5630:

Recharge rate means the speed at which it recharges, so it recharges 30% faster not 30% shorter recharge. Think of it this way.

New recharge time = (old time / 1.3) not (old time* 0.7)

So, they’ve been malfunctioning since Day 1, is what you’re saying? I pretty distinctly recall my Steal being listed as a 32s CD when I was 30 trickery a few months ago (45s – 13.5s, rounded up)

Lucky Shot.7650:

Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.

Also please explain why Thief mobility keeps getting nerfed when you (not you personally, but your “balancing” team) said it would be buffed… Why are we stuck using Signet of Shadow when plenty of other classes have long term or even perma swiftness and yet we’re supposed to have the best mobility? How about why shadow step was nerfed horribly to the point that you can only rely on it about 20% of the time?

Crawford.4135:

Lucky Shot.7650:

Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.

He is a designer, not a developer. Big difference. He’s way below a developer.

Yes, but maybe he has a better understanding than I do about LR and CB. Because I can’t stop laughing for these two changes! XD

Lucky Shot.7650:

Crawford.4135:

Lucky Shot.7650:

Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.

He is a designer, not a developer. Big difference. He’s way below a developer.

Yes, but maybe he has a better understanding than I do about LR and CB. Because I can’t stop laughing for these two changes! XD

They wanted us to be completely useless in sieges so we’re always roaming, simply put they want to hear more whining from people in WvW dying to thieves I guess.

evilapprentice.6379:

JonPeters.5630:

Recharge rate means the speed at which it recharges, so it recharges 30% faster not 30% shorter recharge. Think of it this way.

New recharge time = (old time / 1.3) not (old time* 0.7)

So, they’ve been malfunctioning since Day 1, is what you’re saying? I pretty distinctly recall my Steal being listed as a 32s CD when I was 30 trickery a few months ago (45s – 13.5s, rounded up)

YES THIS IS WHAT im saying! the 45 × .7 formula which he is saying is wrong was applied to steal before this patch! so its def changed since. i distinctly remember it working like this before the patch bc its the first thing i tried as it was the ONLY bright spot for us!

KaiserCX.7103:

Lucky Shot.7650:

Crawford.4135:

Lucky Shot.7650:

Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.

He is a designer, not a developer. Big difference. He’s way below a developer.

Yes, but maybe he has a better understanding than I do about LR and CB. Because I can’t stop laughing for these two changes! XD

They wanted us to be completely useless in sieges so we’re always roaming, simply put they want to hear more whining from people in WvW dying to thieves I guess.

Why lowering LS cooldown then?

… still laughing! XD

Btw where is the petition topic about removing LR?

Lucky Shot.7650:

KaiserCX.7103:

Lucky Shot.7650:

Crawford.4135:

Lucky Shot.7650:

Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.

He is a designer, not a developer. Big difference. He’s way below a developer.

Yes, but maybe he has a better understanding than I do about LR and CB. Because I can’t stop laughing for these two changes! XD

They wanted us to be completely useless in sieges so we’re always roaming, simply put they want to hear more whining from people in WvW dying to thieves I guess.

Why lowering LS cooldown then?

… still laughing! XD

Btw where is the petition topic about removing LR?

Because they figured LR might save you once every 15 times it triggers, so they consider it a buff by making it proc more it will save you more often while ignoring the fact it’ll get you killed more often!

so if the recharge is 21.5seconds and not 17.5 then it still means putting this much in trickery is kinda wasting 15attributes that u can spend somewhere else for better results.
15 acrobatics for example ( trap recharge or might on dodges)

@coast yeah i agree kinda. when guardians and 2 other classes can have perma retaliation up (broken buff) and some classes perma fury *(engie) and perma swiftness and perma protection etc ….god for bid we have perma vigor :O NOOOOOO! lol or a 1 sec daze every 18 seconds. you know i think warrios can knock u down twice and do a total of like 7 or 8 secs of immobilize within a few quick moves. thief is going down the drain. just get rid of them and add monks. ill play a monk anyday :P

Travlane.5948:

@coast yeah i agree kinda. when guardians and 2 other classes can have perma retaliation up (broken buff) and some classes perma fury *(engie) and perma swiftness and perma protection etc ….god for bid we have perma vigor :O NOOOOOO! lol or a 1 sec daze every 18 seconds. you know i think warrios can knock u down twice and do a total of like 7 or 8 secs of immobilize within a few quick moves. thief is going down the drain. just get rid of them and add monks. ill play a monk anyday :P

Honestly wouldn’t have such an issue if the trickery line at least had a useful stat boost on it like condition duration. Not to mention steal is pretty inconsistent between the shadow step nerf and not actually stealing an item, many times have I tried to steal from an enemy (PvE and PvP) standing still and fairly close (200-400 units) and have it simply shadow step me and not steal an item. Also hate that steal gives you the invisibility item 90% of the time in PvE.

KaiserCX.7103:

Honestly wouldn’t have such an issue if the trickery line at least had a useful stat boost on it like condition duration.

You may want to take a look at the Adept (10 point) trait Thrill of the Crime
Even just the 50% uptime on fury might be well worth dropping Critical Strikes, or something else by 10 points. You could withdraw – steal on a approx 20 sec cycle and have 50% uptime on vigor (Vigorous Recovery) and fury (Thrill of the Crime) and, given enough dodging, near 100% uptime on swiftness (Thrill and Expeditious Dodger).

Also hate that steal gives you the invisibility item 90% of the time in PvE.

Stealing from player characters tends to give better

frans.8092:

KaiserCX.7103:

Honestly wouldn’t have such an issue if the trickery line at least had a useful stat boost on it like condition duration.

You may want to take a look at the Adept (10 point) trait Thrill of the Crime
Even just the 50% uptime on fury might be well worth dropping Critical Strikes, or something else by 10 points. You could withdraw – steal on a approx 20 sec cycle and have 50% uptime on vigor (Vigorous Recovery) and fury (Thrill of the Crime) and, given enough dodging, near 100% uptime on swiftness (Thrill and Expeditious Dodger).

Also hate that steal gives you the invisibility item 90% of the time in PvE.

Stealing from player characters tends to give better

Don’t get me wrong, I like the traits and think they’re good. But by dropping critical strikes you’re still missing out on quite a bit of critical damage. Not to mention people can steal your boons, but not your base stats. For PvP you do indeed get good items, but doesn’t change the fact for PvE you generally get invisibility. Also you could have 100% Vigor uptime I believe if you throw in bountiful theft in there, but only if you have a target. I find it kind of strange you get swiftness, might and fury if you use steal without a target with that trait, but you don’t gain vigor from bountiful.

yea checked the trait is 21 seconds..