Guild Wars 2

Hey bros, I dont know if many of you have noticed, but sword/pistol is gaining a lot of popularity in tpvp and i’ve been having a lot of people ask me what build im using whenever im playing in hotjoins or soloques, so i decided to go ahead and repost the guide i made a while back on the forums.

http://intothemists.com/guides/294-rand_x_al_thors_swordpistol_build

Edit: Hey guys, it seems that the edited version of the guide i made did not make it into the guide like i thought it did. I attempted to fix it, and will work on getting it updated, but for now ill just say that i use practiced tolerance, critical haste, and executioner in the critical strikes line instead of the ones on the guide and that the sigils i currently use are air/force and force. I also use blinding powder over signet of agility sense it helps stop stomps or even help you res easier.

I realize that i was not the first one to have a build similar to this one, but if you look at the date the guide was posted (july 28th) you’ll notice it was one of the first guides added to into the mists. If you have any questions about how i play the build or if the guide isnt clear please tell me what needs to be clarified. I also like to stream thief gameplay, so feel free to check my twitch to see how i play it.

I don’t actually login to this much, but I did just to say how I much I love this build. When I moved from D/P to S/P, this was my build of choice, and it’s helped me a lot in shaping a S/P build for my Thief.

I have moved on to my own variation since then, which is largely the same, but I moved around some traits to suit a my more dodgy gameplay – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYmaPHdS4E/5Ey+hK07BZBWmVPDuS+A-T0Ag0CvIKSVkrITRyisFNoY9xhiJBPLA

I’ll occasionally change out Sig of Agility for Infiltrators Sig, if I’m feeling a bit more aggressive, otherwise (as I said) it’s pretty much the same.

Anyway, thanks again for that awesome build of yours! If any Thieves are just starting on a S/P, definitely give his build a spin!

Oh god SP became meta? I no longer feel unique ..
Anyway, I run D/D second set and infiltrator runes. Sigil of hydromancy can easily crit 2-3k on swap once enemy is below 50%, this also gives you acces to the backstab with +30% dmg (below 50% health).
S/P to wear ppl down to 50% and then suddenly change to a very heavy burst usually kills anyone that isn’t a bunker in 1v1. A bunker dies fast too once below the 50% but getting him there is a bit harder.

Utilities are Infiltrator’s signet, RFI and ShS
Withdraw and basilisk

The 10/30/0/0/30 with either d/p or s/p is probably the strongest burst thief build around at the moment.

Couple of things to mention are: Since the daze/stun duration no longer rounds to the nearest second, sigil of paralysation doesn’t affect any of the dazes/stuns on this set. If you take the sigil of accuracy for +5% critical chance, you could swap out your combo critical chance master trait for the newly buffed practised tolerance trait, which gives about 1.5k extra health on builds with zerker amulet. Or you could take furious retaliation for more fury uptime.

Caution: Using a zerker amulet and doing a pistol whip on 2 or more opponents with the retaliation buff WILL wreck you. The flurry on Pistol whip hits 8 times, so if retal is proccing for about 200-250 damage then hitting two people with pistol whip will make you eat 3200-4000 damage. This can be deadly. If you’re cleaving multiple opponents, dropping black powder and auto attacking is sometimes better than spamming pistol whip, as it will give you roughly the same damage output but will lessen the retal ticks that you’ll take.

Also the bountiful theft trait will prioritize aegis and stability in the boons that it rips, so combined with sleight of hand you can interrupt stability stomps just by using steal.

New meta? maybe for some but s/p was my main set for wvw since forever.
Although maybe for tpvp, i wouldn’t know since i don’t s/tpvp much.

the build if anyone is curious

No stealth but ridiculous amounts of evades and ages and blinds on demand.
Power is a tad low (this is a non issue if you have guard leach) but it is made up by the hp and armor.
The sigil of hydromancy is for the same reason the guy above me described.

Jakare.6807:

The 10/30/0/0/30 with either d/p or s/p is probably the strongest burst thief build around at the moment.

Couple of things to mention are: Since the daze/stun duration no longer rounds to the nearest second, sigil of paralysation doesn’t affect any of the dazes/stuns on this set. If you take the sigil of accuracy for +5% critical chance, you could swap out your combo critical chance master trait for the newly buffed practised tolerance trait, which gives about 1.5k extra health on builds with zerker amulet. Or you could take furious retaliation for more fury uptime.

Caution: Using a zerker amulet and doing a pistol whip on 2 or more opponents with the retaliation buff WILL wreck you. The flurry on Pistol whip hits 8 times, so if retal is proccing for about 200-250 damage then hitting two people with pistol whip will make you eat 3200-4000 damage. This can be deadly. If you’re cleaving multiple opponents, dropping black powder and auto attacking is sometimes better than spamming pistol whip, as it will give you roughly the same damage output but will lessen the retal ticks that you’ll take.

Also the bountiful theft trait will prioritize aegis and stability in the boons that it rips, so combined with sleight of hand you can interrupt stability stomps just by using steal.

Bountiful Theft on its own doesn’t prioritize any boons except the last ones the opponent popped, but combined with Sleight of Hand, it produces the anomaly that Stability is the first to go so that it dazes the opponent at all costs.

As for the OP’s build, I feel that it lacks the sustain needed to burn down a bunker before they kill you, and using 10/30/0/0/30 should give you enough crit damage/chance, and combined with fury, you have enough room to go with a Soldier’s amulet and Barbarian’s jewel, as illustrated in the build below. If you’re stealth rezzing your teammates, toughness is a must with the amount of AoE spam aside from conditions in the current meta. Here’s what I’ve been running:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYmCOncS6E/5Ex2DfKUe69gsj1saFoJA-TsAA1CoIKSVkrITRyisFNsY9xkAA

I’ve recently made the switch from D/P Trickery to S/P Trickery, and it’s refreshing and fun. In some ways it’s stronger, but I do think that D/P burst is more reliable, especially against classes that run stability. However, S/P is much better for countering this AI spam meta we currently are in.

The Critical Haste trait is much more reliable than it used to be, and you can count on it proccing pretty regularly every 30 seconds with S/P. It synergizes well with the set, and is a great trait for getting that opening burst.

Keep an eye out for Stability, don’t dump PWs onto targets with it on unless you can Steal it or you need the evade frames.

Don’t forget that you can Steal/Infiltrator Sigent/Shadowstep during the stun cast of PW for mobility and more reliable stuns, and you can do so during the flurry to tack on more damage if they move away.

You’re gonna catch some hell from players complaining about skill spam from PW. Just a heads up.

Also, if you’re interested in watching top-tier S/P thief gameplay, Magic Tokers stream is a great source.

http://www.twitch.tv/magictoker

Streams pretty regularly, Rank 65 and as of this post ranked #1 on NA Team Q leaderboards.

Also, rap music. Lots of it.

I run something like this…S/D instead of S/P…

Tons of evades and lots of initiative, might stacking…fun to play. SB is a powerful weapon is SPVP.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV8ImI8eQ2xaWtC0s7xVlfVB-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZxWEA

The meta is so funny…almost nothing changes to make S/P better, but suddenly, everyone thinks it’s awesome now.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Bountiful Theft on its own doesn’t prioritize any boons except the last ones the opponent popped, but combined with Sleight of Hand, it produces the anomaly that Stability is the first to go so that it dazes the opponent at all costs.

Bountiful theft always prioritizes stabilit rip. Even with Sleight of hand it will rip off stability. I used to run 20 in trickery and do PW-steal combo which was a guaranteed stability rip. I’ve been doing this since february already.

Dahkeus.8243:

The meta is so funny…almost nothing changes to make S/P better, but suddenly, everyone thinks it’s awesome now.

But pwhip just got massively buffed and is spammable now?

I’ve gotten some hilarious 1shot pwhip kills with 25/30/0/0/15 and passive assassin signet, so that’s a thing other builds can’t really do.

It’s too bad haste sucks now

ens.9854:

Dahkeus.8243:

The meta is so funny…almost nothing changes to make S/P better, but suddenly, everyone thinks it’s awesome now.

But pwhip just got massively buffed and is spammable now?

I’ve gotten some hilarious 1shot pwhip kills with 25/30/0/0/15 and passive assassin signet, so that’s a thing other builds can’t really do.

It’s too bad haste sucks now

PW didn’t get much buff really, it got a slight unnerf and a small buff which imo still makes current PW inferior to the original PW (or even the one prior to stunpatch)

The word META can mean many things… As you can see from these many definitions…I agree people use it as they see fit…although IMO it seems most of the time people make reference to the “easiest” way to win, therfore kind of “abusing” game mechanics to create builds that can easily win fights…or dominate…

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=metagaming

ens.9854:

Dahkeus.8243:

The meta is so funny…almost nothing changes to make S/P better, but suddenly, everyone thinks it’s awesome now.

But pwhip just got massively buffed and is spammable now?

I’ve gotten some hilarious 1shot pwhip kills with 25/30/0/0/15 and passive assassin signet, so that’s a thing other builds can’t really do.

It’s too bad haste sucks now

There was a tiny reduction to the aftercast (the same amount of reduction was introduced in the past and it made almost no difference to the meta) and there was a very small buff to initiative, which helps other weapon sets just as much.

At the same time, the stun is much smaller than it used to be (paralyzation sigil nerf) and before that change, it hadn’t been popular since the really early days when it hit like a massive truck.

That tiny reduction is huge, lets the evade start sooner(increased evade uptime also), increases overall DPS and actually lets you get hits in on a non CC’d player even with a “shorter” stun. It turned a situational skill with worse DPS than aa into one that I have no hesitation to spam even when being attacked.

It is pretty obviously massively better than it was, and even top players talk about/are running it now.

d/P or d/d-with sb is still where it is at. love to be able to move through a zerg and take my targets as i choose than drop back drop some bombs and jump back in and just keep it up till there is nothing left of the enemy team XD

ens.9854:

That tiny reduction is huge, lets the evade start sooner(increased evade uptime also), increases overall DPS and actually lets you get hits in on a non CC’d player even with a “shorter” stun. It turned a situational skill with worse DPS than aa into one that I have no hesitation to spam even when being attacked.

It is pretty obviously massively better than it was, and even top players talk about/are running it now.

It’s a good skill, for sure, but it’s not massively better than it was. It’s a .25 second change and a .25 change was made before without being considered “massive”. The biggest difference is just that S/D is in a bad state and so players that had held so tightly to the meta builds they were running before are just realizing that there are other good builds too. I ran S/P plenty before this buff and it’d didn’t become miraculously better over Dec 10th. It was good then and it’s good, but a little better now. However, the meta mentality is what makes people think that this is suddenly some amazing discovery, lol.

The build is wrong. We not use signet of agility, side strike and combo critical chance for tPVP

We not use energy, air and paralyzation.

But nice try for kill puggies.

Discordia.7293:

The build is wrong. We not use signet of agility, side strike and combo critical chance for tPVP

We not use energy, air and paralyzation.

But nice try for kill puggies.

Side Strike and Combo Critical are fine. There’s several traits that you could swap in for them without really making much of a difference, such as Furious Retal and Practiced Tolerance.

Energy’s not a bad choice for any PvP build and is fine since the short bow is often something you swap to when you decide to dodge out of a team fight to AoE from range. Of course, Fire or Bloodlust are also solid options.

Sigil of Air, I agree, isn’t great since Sigil of Fire does almost the same damage while also hitting in AoE.

Also, I agree that sigil of para is pretty weak. There are worse options, but since the last nerf, the stun duration is pretty negligible.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYmaPHdS5E/5Ey2jKUn4JvHk1YZWaFoJA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZxsAA

is there a build, try to think because we use this variation considering a good cleave and mobility to tpvp.

lol after 1 month someone has finally copied a s/p build from pvpler an opened a thread, but berserk Amulett/lyssa is so old fashioned, with that much fury up time …. be a bit creative …..
theres a much stronger survival build available without spamming 40 Points into a steal

To give you an idea of how long this build has been around, check the date on this thread:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83957-tessa-averys-swordpistol-shortbow-daze-burst-build/

And even then, it wasn’t radically new. This was just one of the first good guides outlining the build.

(Props to Tessa Avery for their awesome contributions on Guru)

Dahkeus.8243:

To give you an idea of how long this build has been around, check the date on this thread:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83957-tessa-averys-swordpistol-shortbow-daze-burst-build/

And even then, it wasn’t radically new. This was just one of the first good guides outlining the build.

(Props to Tessa Avery for their awesome contributions on Guru)

If you look at the post i made, you’ll see the guide is from july 28th, which is shortly after into the mists added the guide section. when i made my 2 guides there were almost no thief guides on the site, so i made a wvw and a tpvp guide to get things started. I have dueled Tessa often in the past and I definitely think He/She is a great player, and has a very similar build to the one i use.

Arkantos.7460:

lol after 1 month someone has finally copied a s/p build from pvpler an opened a thread, but berserk Amulett/lyssa is so old fashioned, with that much fury up time …. be a bit creative …..
theres a much stronger survival build available without spamming 40 Points into a steal

Trickery is an incredibly powerful trait line and is, in my opinion, the best way for a thief to play in the current tpvp meta.

Discordia.7293:

The build is wrong. We not use signet of agility, side strike and combo critical chance for tPVP

We not use energy, air and paralyzation.

But nice try for kill puggies.

I attempted to update the guide, but apparently i didnt do it correctly. I updated my original post to clarify temporarily while i try to update the guide on into the mists. Although this build is great for hotjoin, i made it for tpvp. I dont appreciate the condescension, im simply trying to help the thief community become all it can be by providing information to those who dont know.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Dahkeus.8243:

To give you an idea of how long this build has been around, check the date on this thread:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83957-tessa-averys-swordpistol-shortbow-daze-burst-build/

And even then, it wasn’t radically new. This was just one of the first good guides outlining the build.

(Props to Tessa Avery for their awesome contributions on Guru)

If you look at the post i made, you’ll see the guide is from july 28th, which is shortly after into the mists added the guide section. when i made my 2 guides there were almost no thief guides on the site, so i made a wvw and a tpvp guide to get things started. I have dueled Tessa often in the past and I definitely think He/She is a great player, and has a very similar build to the one i use.

I’m not sure I understand what point you’re making….

I’m not saying Tessa was the first to post this build. I know I had seen this build around before Tessa’s post, but this was the best example I could remember of the build being posted a long time ago.

d/p is superior to s/p but s/p is a lololol press 3 build so you get the obvious types gravitating towards it. Both builds have the same shortbow action but d/p has more reliable spikes and chases better. Then again, it takes more skill.

Hype.8032:

d/p is superior to s/p but s/p is a lololol press 3 build so you get the obvious types gravitating towards it. Both builds have the same shortbow action but d/p has more reliable spikes and chases better. Then again, it takes more skill.

You’d be completely wrong, and your assumption that sword is for spiking shows your inferior knowledge about the class. Sword is designed as a sustained damage weapon, while dagger is a burst damage weapon, meaning that sword builds are made to stay in the fight and keep pressure, while dagger is a get-in-get-out spike weapon meant to quickly take down already pressured opponents.

Secondly, D/P has far to much reward for its very little risk, while S/P, S/D, and D/D are balanced to the point where a skilled player will shine when using these, and many top-tier PvPers stray from D/P due to its low skill ceiling and inability to hold a point.

D/P in WvW, however, is extremely good due to its high access to stealth on demand without the necessity of an enemy to gain it from, ala CnD. In this facet you would be correct, but this is a PvP discussion. I’m sure you’re trolling by telling experienced players that D/P requires far more skill than S/P, S/D, D/D, and even P/P. It’s laughable, really.

EDIT: Also, anyone running S/P who mindlessly spams 3 is going to die very, very quickly. Maybe you should try something other than your canned D/P build to expand your horizons.

Viking Jorun.5413:

You’d be completely wrong, and your assumption that sword is for spiking shows your inferior knowledge about the class. Sword is designed as a sustained damage weapon, while dagger is a burst damage weapon, meaning that sword builds are made to stay in the fight and keep pressure, while dagger is a get-in-get-out spike weapon meant to quickly take down already pressured opponents.

Secondly, D/P has far to much reward for its very little risk, while S/P, S/D, and D/D are balanced to the point where a skilled player will shine when using these, and many top-tier PvPers stray from D/P due to its low skill ceiling and inability to hold a point.

D/P in WvW, however, is extremely good due to its high access to stealth on demand without the necessity of an enemy to gain it from, ala CnD. In this facet you would be correct, but this is a PvP discussion. I’m sure you’re trolling by telling experienced players that D/P requires far more skill than S/P, S/D, D/D, and even P/P. It’s laughable, really.

EDIT: Also, anyone running S/P who mindlessly spams 3 is going to die very, very quickly. Maybe you should try something other than your canned D/P build to expand your horizons.

So which is it? I hear that D/P is good because you use every skill on your bar. Whereas D/D you use 5 and 1 occasionally 2 and S/D + S/P are both LOLMASH3. I’ve been running D/P in PvP / WvW / PvE, and am currently experimenting with S/P, but I can’t get the survivability / damage as I can w/ D/P. 3 takes too long to come out, and 5 doesn’t seem like it helps w/ sword very much. I don’t get any useful combo fields unless I’m forgetting something.

I will be trying S/D next in PvP / WvW, but for now it seems like S/P isn’t my playstyle.

Lamuness.3570:

S/D + S/P are both LOLMASH3.

Why did you quote his post if you didn’t even read it? If you mash #3 on S/P, the only kills you’ll get are critters, guards, uplevels, people who are AFK, and yourself. Every weapon skill on S/P is useful in one regard or another. Even the autoattack.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Hype.8032:

d/p is superior to s/p but s/p is a lololol press 3 build so you get the obvious types gravitating towards it. Both builds have the same shortbow action but d/p has more reliable spikes and chases better. Then again, it takes more skill.

You’d be completely wrong, and your assumption that sword is for spiking shows your inferior knowledge about the class. Sword is designed as a sustained damage weapon, while dagger is a burst damage weapon, meaning that sword builds are made to stay in the fight and keep pressure, while dagger is a get-in-get-out spike weapon meant to quickly take down already pressured opponents.

Secondly, D/P has far to much reward for its very little risk, while S/P, S/D, and D/D are balanced to the point where a skilled player will shine when using these, and many top-tier PvPers stray from D/P due to its low skill ceiling and inability to hold a point.

D/P in WvW, however, is extremely good due to its high access to stealth on demand without the necessity of an enemy to gain it from, ala CnD. In this facet you would be correct, but this is a PvP discussion. I’m sure you’re trolling by telling experienced players that D/P requires far more skill than S/P, S/D, D/D, and even P/P. It’s laughable, really.

EDIT: Also, anyone running S/P who mindlessly spams 3 is going to die very, very quickly. Maybe you should try something other than your canned D/P build to expand your horizons.

You do realize that shortbow is a better weapon for sustained damage than s/p right? In both d/p and s/p kits you should be using shortbow most the time. You keep the same damage while maintaining more defense. So, what do you want from a switch? Burst is the answer. D/P is the superior set for burst and it’s our highest skill cap weapon along with shortbow. Step away from perma stealthing in wvw and learn more about this class dude!

You sound foolish saying s/p doesn’t revolve around pistol whip… watch magictoker play, that’s his bread and butter and you’ll often see him hit it 3 times in a row with no other skills inbetween. YOUR inferior knowledge betrays you.

Cheers!

Interceptor.2653:

Lamuness.3570:

S/D + S/P are both LOLMASH3.

Why did you quote his post if you didn’t even read it? If you mash #3 on S/P, the only kills you’ll get are critters, guards, uplevels, people who are AFK, and yourself. Every weapon skill on S/P is useful in one regard or another. Even the autoattack.

Sorry, but when I read it, and hit reply, the “edit” seems to have slipped in there while I assumed nothing had changed. But I was mainly addressing his point that D/P had the lowest skill ceiling against something like S/P or S/D; something I was under the impression of having the lowest skill ceiling.

Hype.8032:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Hype.8032:

d/p is superior to s/p but s/p is a lololol press 3 build so you get the obvious types gravitating towards it. Both builds have the same shortbow action but d/p has more reliable spikes and chases better. Then again, it takes more skill.

You’d be completely wrong, and your assumption that sword is for spiking shows your inferior knowledge about the class. Sword is designed as a sustained damage weapon, while dagger is a burst damage weapon, meaning that sword builds are made to stay in the fight and keep pressure, while dagger is a get-in-get-out spike weapon meant to quickly take down already pressured opponents.

Secondly, D/P has far to much reward for its very little risk, while S/P, S/D, and D/D are balanced to the point where a skilled player will shine when using these, and many top-tier PvPers stray from D/P due to its low skill ceiling and inability to hold a point.

D/P in WvW, however, is extremely good due to its high access to stealth on demand without the necessity of an enemy to gain it from, ala CnD. In this facet you would be correct, but this is a PvP discussion. I’m sure you’re trolling by telling experienced players that D/P requires far more skill than S/P, S/D, D/D, and even P/P. It’s laughable, really.

EDIT: Also, anyone running S/P who mindlessly spams 3 is going to die very, very quickly. Maybe you should try something other than your canned D/P build to expand your horizons.

You do realize that shortbow is a better weapon for sustained damage than s/p right? In both d/p and s/p kits you should be using shortbow most the time. You keep the same damage while maintaining more defense. So, what do you want from a switch? Burst is the answer. D/P is the superior set for burst and it’s our highest skill cap weapon along with shortbow. Step away from perma stealthing in wvw and learn more about this class dude!

You sound foolish saying s/p doesn’t revolve around pistol whip… watch magictoker play, that’s his bread and butter and you’ll often see him hit it 3 times in a row with no other skills inbetween. YOUR inferior knowledge betrays you.

Cheers!

Lolwhat? You run D/P, and I run S/P, and you’re telling ME to step away from perma stealth? I think I’ll stop right here, because it’s obvious that you’re trolling as hard as you possibly can. Learn the class. You didn’t play top tier tPvP in something like Team Legacy, dissect the game and learn every inch of its core mechanics. I can provide real numbers for you on why I’m in fact correct, and why you’re blowing smoke out of your kitten trolling. What qualifies you as a professional on the subject? I’d love to see your stream and how you play, because I guarantee if I see one skill click or keyboard turn, you’ve lost all credibility. You’ve kittened me off now. I dare you to try to tell me how “inferior” S/P is and how bad of a player I am, the one who posted both the emerging S/P meta build and the post Dec. 10th D/P trickery build, which you probably run. I know my way around this class, kiddo. Don’t try to pride yourself because you just joined the forums today and made a thief, then come here and insult seasoned players who actually know their kitten.

S/P runs around PW….period. no way around it. tactical strike is a really bad skill and should almost never be used as it costs you dmg, time and initiative that shouldnt be spent on lesser productivity. head shot is for a healing skill only (unless u like wasting init on a big attack u should be avoiding with an evade/blind). BPS is your defense with evades. IS and IR are obvious. so the dmg skills are auto attack and pistol whip. ONLY those 2 do dmg. atleast dmg that will be noticeable through a fight. so pistolwhip is your spike dmg and auto attack hits VERY hard yet very slow. i would never call this sustained dmg build yet hard to call it a spike build unless ur building around high immob times + PW. i doubt anyone takes a weaponset….looks at the auto attack and says…“yup thats a spike set”. they look at skills 2-5 to decide if it is a sustained dmg set or condi set or spike set. since s/p has no condi dmg its not condi. it has no sustained dmg other than auto attack which is like 70% spike 30 % sustained. hard to call it one thing. and PW, being the bread and butter skill as it is the best way with that set to kill something or someone, would fall under burst/spike dmg. it hits for high dmg (6-12k) and is a whir of extremely fast bladed attacks that evade. “whir” – “extremely fast” – “high dmg” – - – - – sounds like burst/spike.

SB is best sustained dmg. 1500-2400 auto attacks (build depending) and has poison, weakness, cripple, bleed, blind, gap closer, gap opener, evades, slow moving spike dmg with cluster, and aoe + multiple target attacks. Sb is well rounded although it needs 1200 range back and increased speed on auto.

I’m not going to argue with you people any more. Stick with your stagnant builds that get you nowhere and only act as selfish hotjoin and YOLOQ builds. I run team builds exclusively, and those of you preaching D/P need to get the kitten out. This isn’t your thread, and it was a decent discussion on S/P’s place in the meta. I’d like it to stay there if you can be so humble as to hold your tongues, because many of is actually do know what we’re talking about, and don’t spew information out of our kitten like it’s going out of style.

Thank you. I’ll no longer waste my energy on stupid comments without logic or reason which pull numbers out of nowhere. Let’s get back on topic rather than saying “HUEHUE LOL SP IS 333333 SET U NOOBS”, because you’ve obviously never stepped outside of your comfort zone and don’t take the time to evaluate why certain top tier PvPers use Pistol Whip when they do. Mkay?

/rant

as always. emo responses.

i use facts, examples, and direct comparisons, even actual numbers u can just say thats something is blah blah bc you say so. explain why. give an example. say "when i use s/p i usually open with …bleh bleh….and when X happens i do blahblah etc. just explain. your points are moot otherwise.

i think the other player that said it was a burst build and PW is the bread/butter is correct but only under the assumption that pw is the best dmging skill and most used. basically the highest productivity plus most frequently used = bread and butter of a weaponset. i mean cant really argue that. unless ur using auto attack the entire time…in which case u should NEVER use sword and just daggers…… but dont be afraid to explain. people might not find u to be a *r*ll and somebody trying to contribute. thats all. nobody has anythign against what u say in a perosnal sense. just back it up with more than just emo opinions and “im smart ur duhhhhhhhh” or u just cheese it and get some more hours logged. thats not considered prime material for backing up somethign u claim. infact its quite the opposite.

I’m actually genuinely curious about what S/P is capable of, which is why I was waiting for you to help me understand how this weaponset works. As Travlane said, no one’s attacking you personally and it would help someone like me L2S/P.

S/P tactics I use in TPvP
When I attack someone on a node alone (far invade) and I know from previous encounters that he’s glassy I start with: Basilisk venom, Shadowstep, infiltrator’s signet, infilator’s strike. 2 aa and then I’d start switching between PW and aa with occasional dodge. When they open up with stability I’d stop using PW since AA does more damage and doesn’t root me. [Enter random situation here: See below]

Once they drop below 50% health I’d switch to my second set: D/D with sigil of hydromancy. This causes a 1-2k damage with chill effect for 3 seconds. I suspect my enemy to dodge mostly, so I wait 1s (aa) and then c&d him to set up the backstab. Depending on the aoe’s on the floor I’d engage with backstab or use this time to recast basilisk venom. When he’s downed I’d AA ’till I actually hit him, c&d and stealth stomp.

If the enemy at start would’ve used a CC, ShS is still up, so I’d use it to stunbreak and return back in fight with a PW-Steal combo. It seems weird that I’d use a skill that ports me far away from the node, but if this is entirely in the beginning of the match, you’ll have enough time to get back in without them winning it. If the CC is used later in the fight, I’d use RFI and again pw-steal combo. Depending on what I get I’d use it immediately or wait. Example: Hambow, warrior changes to bow? I use his whirlwind axe. Necromancer’s fear I’d use immediately to fear my opponent of node and then take the fight to him outside the node. Fear doesn’t last long enough for me to capture the node, and there’s a big chance that he’ll start chainfearing me once he returns, which makes him capture the node. So I fight him outside the node, even if he starts fearing me, he still has to run back to the node. This buys some time.

Extra enemies show up. This is usual a disadvantage and I’d use PW more often now for the evade while damaging. If I know someone is coming to support the node neutralisation I’d stay on node and troll it in my downed state, otherwise I’ll try to escape with c&d.

(PS: This is assuming I invaded far which I mostly don’t .. but sometimes ppl in my team ask me to do it so that’s basically my tactic in a nutshell, might edit if I can think of more scenarios or someone ask a specific one)

VJ wants this to stay about s/p in the meta so…. S/P is roughly as effective as d/p in the current meta but it’s much easier to achieve the same success because just like warrior it is extremely easy to use. Within a few hours I felt roughly as effective playing s/p as I am after months upon months of the same d/p build (and I came up with it without any help from some chest thumping kid).

VJ have you been in the top 100 on either leaderboard?

What are you arguing about again which weapon set takes more skill right? Lets be honest the outside world sees thief as the spamming, blinding, stealth abusing class. PW hasn’t been seriously kittened about in over a year. Even now the complaints we see in the spvp forums are centered around trickery and not the weapons themselves.

Whether D/P or S/P requires more skills in spvp is a moot point. You are a thief in spvp if your not in the hot joins your likely a decent player if your sticking with it. Can both builds be troll worthy? Sure all of our builds can because we can spam skills and combos. Fact is a good thief in spvp isn’t really going to rely on stealth (cant contest a point) or stun locking (not even possible for us). they aren’t reliable enough in that game mode. You pick your spot while sustaining DPS with SB in both builds. That is about it.

Instead of having a kitten measuring contest over who is the better players and jabbing at thief builds you do not play. Try and be civil not be kittens and help players understand the build whether you play S/P or D/P you are trickery thief.

Lamuness.3570:

Viking Jorun.5413:

You’d be completely wrong, and your assumption that sword is for spiking shows your inferior knowledge about the class. Sword is designed as a sustained damage weapon, while dagger is a burst damage weapon, meaning that sword builds are made to stay in the fight and keep pressure, while dagger is a get-in-get-out spike weapon meant to quickly take down already pressured opponents.

Secondly, D/P has far to much reward for its very little risk, while S/P, S/D, and D/D are balanced to the point where a skilled player will shine when using these, and many top-tier PvPers stray from D/P due to its low skill ceiling and inability to hold a point.

D/P in WvW, however, is extremely good due to its high access to stealth on demand without the necessity of an enemy to gain it from, ala CnD. In this facet you would be correct, but this is a PvP discussion. I’m sure you’re trolling by telling experienced players that D/P requires far more skill than S/P, S/D, D/D, and even P/P. It’s laughable, really.

EDIT: Also, anyone running S/P who mindlessly spams 3 is going to die very, very quickly. Maybe you should try something other than your canned D/P build to expand your horizons.

So which is it? I hear that D/P is good because you use every skill on your bar. Whereas D/D you use 5 and 1 occasionally 2 and S/D + S/P are both LOLMASH3. I’ve been running D/P in PvP / WvW / PvE, and am currently experimenting with S/P, but I can’t get the survivability / damage as I can w/ D/P. 3 takes too long to come out, and 5 doesn’t seem like it helps w/ sword very much. I don’t get any useful combo fields unless I’m forgetting something.

I will be trying S/D next in PvP / WvW, but for now it seems like S/P isn’t my playstyle.

Actually, as D/D, I use all 5 skills. 5 and 1 are still the bread and butter, but HS is for when targets are 1/3rd hp or less or when you just need to travel around. 3 is an extra evade for clutch moments and a handy clone buster vs mesmers. 4 is an occaisional snare and often a good way to apply basilisk before you opponent expects it. I use 4 with basilisk a lot to stun an enemy before they can contest a point.

However, having your timing right is really what makes the difference between people who pick up D/D for the first time in PvP and shortly write it off and the people who pull it off successfully. Being able to chain CnDs without triggering revealed is often key to winning a lot of fights, particularly since coming from stealth, then landing CnD → backstab with basilisk is such good burst that is very hard to counter.

In my opinion, 10/30/0/0/30 whether it’s D/P or S/P, relies too much on Steal as a crutch. I still prefer S/D despite the #2 slight nerf since it’s more unpredictable.

From my experience and reading guides, I’m unsure whether using S/P #3 is ever a good idea as opposed to just #1 chaining. It seems pretty rare you’ll ever get the full hit in. And after the evade phase is over, what then? Switch to sb for evades until you can get another steal/immob in?

Wait…why are people saying AA does more damage than PW? Unless you’re against a very mobile enemy that’s running out of the PW damage, PW should be doing much more dps than AA alone (especially with the right traits). You can go to a training dummy in the mists and do one time trial with AA alone, then do another where you spam PW to see the difference.

PW used to be about on par with AAs, but with the last two buffs that decreased the aftercast, it is a lot better.

Dahkeus.8243:

Wait…why are people saying AA does more damage than PW? Unless you’re against a very mobile enemy that’s running out of the PW damage, PW should be doing much more dps than AA alone (especially with the right traits). You can go to a training dummy in the mists and do one time trial with AA alone, then do another where you spam PW to see the difference.

PW used to be about on par with AAs, but with the last two buffs that decreased the aftercast, it is a lot better.

What people fail to realize is that sword AA is very strong, able to maintain permanent crippled and weakness, which will destroy any power spec. Combined with your blind field, you should have no problems taking down warriors. I only find PW more suitable during fights against PU mesmers and necros who swap to staff and kite, so the PW, S2+PW, PW+InfSig, PW+Steal combo will definitely wreck classes of that category.

Dahkeus.8243:

Wait…why are people saying AA does more damage than PW? […] PW used to be about on par with AAs, but with the last two buffs that decreased the aftercast, it is a lot better.

^ This. People need to update their talking points, or something. It’s not the same set that it was in 2012.

Speaking of which, people talking about S/P “burst” need to clarify what they are referring to. S/P only has two high-damage skills (#1 and #3), and both of them are slow with largely back-loaded damage, i.e. the punch is towards the end of the strike. You aren’t compressing the damage without Haste or Critical Haste.

I guess it’s bursty compared to a glacier or something, but not compared to other thief weaponsets.

Viking Jorun.5413:

What people fail to realize is that sword AA is very strong, able to maintain permanent crippled and weakness, which will destroy any power spec. Combined with your blind field, you should have no problems taking down warriors. I only find PW more suitable during fights against PU mesmers and necros who swap to staff and kite, so the PW, S2+PW, PW+InfSig, PW+Steal combo will definitely wreck classes of that category.

He was talking about raw damage, not overall utility. The autoattack chain definitely loses in terms of vanilla DPS. Obviously things change a bit when you include secondary factors like conditions, mobility, etc.

P.S.: please take a deep breath, this topic is not worth losing your temper over.

Interceptor.2653:

Viking Jorun.5413:

What people fail to realize is that sword AA is very strong, able to maintain permanent crippled and weakness, which will destroy any power spec. Combined with your blind field, you should have no problems taking down warriors. I only find PW more suitable during fights against PU mesmers and necros who swap to staff and kite, so the PW, S2+PW, PW+InfSig, PW+Steal combo will definitely wreck classes of that category.

He was talking about raw damage, not overall utility. The autoattack chain definitely loses in terms of vanilla DPS. Obviously things change a bit when you include secondary factors like conditions, mobility, etc.

P.S.: please take a deep breath, this topic is not worth losing your temper over.

Thanks man. It just gets my goat when people tell me I don’t know kitten, you know?

Dahkeus.8243:

Wait…why are people saying AA does more damage than PW? Unless you’re against a very mobile enemy that’s running out of the PW damage, PW should be doing much more dps than AA alone (especially with the right traits). You can go to a training dummy in the mists and do one time trial with AA alone, then do another where you spam PW to see the difference.

PW used to be about on par with AAs, but with the last two buffs that decreased the aftercast, it is a lot better.

he said AA does more when stability is up.

also…guys…u cant call a weaponset spike, sustained, or condi on AA alone. :P