Guild Wars 2

If I dodge a thief’s opening attack from stealth, the thief should become revealed. As it is, I can use my best intuition and planning and dodging to avoid damage against a stealthed thief but this means nothing when the thief can miss 10 backstabs in a row until i blow all of my cd/ dodges. It takes planning, counterplay, and skill to evade a stealthed thief so I think we should be rewarded for doing so.

At the very least, the thief trips and falls down stunned for a second or so if they miss a melee attack from stealth?

Also it will make landing backstabs/tactical strikes more skillful to land considering how much of an advantage they give for how easy it is to pull them off currently.

thoughts? comments?

EDIT: I am not complaining or whining or any of that. I am simply suggesting a way to get thief gameplay into a better area where it requires more skill to pull off great burst damage from stealth. A change like this will benefit everyone in that it makes thief gameplay much more skillful and purposeful.

Also, please stop saying useless comments like “l2play noob op pick up thief and try it”. You contribute nothing to the discussion at all. And not that it means much at all, but I do play thief.

Backstab has a very small range, so being taken out of stealth for simply missing is a bit harsh. If they increased the range of Backstab I have no problem with this (annoying to adapt to the change though).

I like it.

An alternative might be that while stealthed, pushing the “1” key costs initiative (like 2 or 3). I agree that going stealth and then frantically spamming the 1 key, hoping for a backstab, should be detrimental.

I the thief doesn’t touch you, you shouldn’t have any clue about his position.

He also cannot be in stealth indefinitely. He has given time window (3-4 seconds) to stab you, whether he succeeds or not. In fact, you only need to dodge at the end of that window, since he will use the first 2-3 seconds to position in your back. 10 backstabs in a row is a gross exaggeration… 3 maybe, in the best of cases, with all favorable circumstances.

It is assumed that the academy of thieves teaches them the basics of how to handle a dagger without tripping, farting or stabbing themselves with it.

I also think that things like dodging, casting caltrops, casting other certain abilities, and stomping should all break stealth. But that’s just me. I am perfectly happy stealth staking people for now.

Make stealth atacks ignore blind and unblockable, then steath can end on miss. Otherwise those blinds and blocks way to easy to apply for certain classes.

Kyrion.2749:

I the thief doesn’t touch you, you shouldn’t have any clue about his position.

He also cannot be in stealth indefinitely. He has given time window (3-4 seconds) to stab you, whether he succeeds or not. In fact, you only need to dodge at the end of that window, since he will use the first 2-3 seconds to position in your back. 10 backstabs in a row is a gross exaggeration… 3 maybe, in the best of cases, with all favorable circumstances.

It is assumed that the academy of thieves teaches them the basics of how to handle a dagger without tripping, farting or stabbing themselves with it.

Well the idea is that the thief goes in for a stab but misses. Since the thief is built very light, he has to lean in to get a good stab. Not to mention it requires excellent balance so even the slightest movement should throw the thief off, allowing for the would-be-victim to catch him.

The 10 backstabs in a row was an exaggeration to show my point, but it definitely is not uncommon to see thieves stealth for an extended period of time using hs > blackpowder, shadow refuge, C/D as soon as stealth runs out, or simply chaining stealth cds like HiS allowing for a very large window for making as many backstab attempts as wanted without punishment.

Riko.9214:

Make stealth atacks ignore blind and unblockable, then steath can end on miss. Otherwise those blinds and blocks way to easy to apply for certain classes.

Yeah I don’t know if I made this clear but hitting aegis wouldn’t break stealth for balancing issues. IDK about blind

actually missing would be the least reason for the stealth to become visible, first of all these are acrobatic professionals they aren’t suddenly going to fall flat on their face because their stab missed, specially since the whole point of a backstab is not brute force but finesse aimed at the weakest points of a fairly defenseless person.

Throw into that mix the fact that stealth isn’t stealth but actually a magical concealment based on similiar magic to what mesmers focus on and what allows shadow steps then that also adds a degree of failsafe to the “story”

Outside of the “story” of the backstab the actual mechanics are already fairly stringent, yes that thief may have 4 seconds to land that stab but first remove the time its taken for them to get into position (this should be a fair while if you saw them before they stealthed as your in control of that position) then throw in the 0.75 second you gained by your dodge and the second its going to take the thief to get back into position and the stealth should already be nearly gone and of course backstab isn’t instant cast.

Of course they have ways to reapply the stealth starting the whole thing again (if they cloak and dagger), setting themselves up for a big counter (SR/BP+HS) or burning multiple utility/important cooldowns to try and secure a single medium-high hit.

Sure you don’t get the big telltale that someone whos just blocked the stab gets (a big “Blocked” pop up and/or a disappearing boon, but if your good enough to evade it and know you evaded it then you should have been good enough to wear down the thieves stealth duration with evasive maneuvers (stepping backwards for instance).

Also if your going to try and make serious suggestions could you please not throw in obvious over-exaggeration to make a point, if the point requires exaggeration generally its not really a point (or your trying to explain to a 5 year old/troll but you don’t start off a suggestion with that in mind otherwise your just feeding the trolls ;P)

that sounds’ harsh, typical thief hater? not like thieves are that op anymore anyway

Turbo Whale.1738:

If I dodge a thief’s opening attack from stealth, the thief should become revealed. As it is, I can use my best intuition and planning and dodging to avoid damage against a stealthed thief but this means nothing when the thief can miss 10 backstabs in a row until i blow all of my cd/ dodges. It takes planning, counterplay, and skill to evade a stealthed thief so I think we should be rewarded for doing so.

At the very least, the thief trips and falls down stunned for a second or so if they miss a melee attack from stealth?

Also it will make landing backstabs/tactical strikes more skillful to land considering how much of an advantage they give for how easy it is to pull them off currently.

thoughts? comments?

op maybe u need more skill? stop hatin on thieves they are miserable enough at the moment, nerfed to death. ya i know fo sure u need moar skillz

I agree with OP and I AM a thief. My reasoning is that there is nothing acrobatic or finesse-like about a thief, stealthed, flailing around like an idiot, spamming his 1 key trying to land a backstab. It’s kind of silly.

I’d say that trying to connect ‘10 backstabs’ in a row and failing all of them is enough punishment for the thief

Furthermore, if we are going to introduce ‘pathethic failures’ for thieves, let’s be ambitious and introduce them for all classes as well, like warrior rifles spontaneously exploding for overcharging them with kill-shots…. ranger pets turning on their masters for recieving excessive damage and suicide orders… elementalist’s gear degrading and breaking due to quick changes in temperature form coldness to heat…. undead minions out of necro’s control attacking their own team… Malfunctioning engineer turrets that heal enemies… an so on.

“3). I agree that going stealth and then frantically spamming the 1 key, hoping for a backstab, should be detrimental.”

How do you think thieves backstab?

People are freaking running all over the place. Nobody stands still for your backstab.

It’s amazing how often people want to make it so hard for thieves to be able to actually use their class mechanics.

People complain about the mechanic and then want to make it super hard to actually use it.

Try and apply this logic to other classes and tell me what you come up with.

if Class A attempts to use their class mechanic but fails their class mechanic should fail or cause something bad to happen to them

Just dumb.

If A guardian might blows you and you block it doe they get chilled?

That would be just as dumb.

What classes get penalized for trying and failing to use their abilities?

animalmom.1062:

“3). I agree that going stealth and then frantically spamming the 1 key, hoping for a backstab, should be detrimental.”

How do you think thieves backstab?

People are freaking running all over the place. Nobody stands still for your backstab.

It’s amazing how often people want to make it so hard for thieves to be able to actually use their class mechanics.

People complain about the mechanic and then want to make it super hard to actually use it.

Try and apply this logic to other classes and tell me what you come up with.

if Class A attempts to use their class mechanic but fails their class mechanic should fail or cause something bad to happen to them

Just dumb.

If A guardian might blows you and you block it doe they get chilled?

That would be just as dumb.

What classes get penalized for trying and failing to use their abilities?

<awaits the “but everyone else gets put on cooldown” argument ignoring the basis of the stealth attacks being an extension of autoattacks that already have multiple requirements just to even begin to use>

Kyrion.2749:

I’d say that trying to connect ‘10 backstabs’ in a row and failing all of them is enough punishment for the thief

Furthermore, if we are going to introduce ‘pathethic failures’ for thieves, let’s be ambitious and introduce them for all classes as well, like warrior rifles spontaneously exploding for overcharging them with kill-shots…. ranger pets turning on their masters for recieving excessive damage and suicide orders… elementalist’s gear degrading and breaking due to quick changes in temperature form coldness to heat…. undead minions out of necro’s control attacking their own team… Malfunctioning engineer turrets that heal enemies… an so on.

Yep pretty much in context. OP I hear ya but seriously I see rangers with great swords running with their backs to me blocking all attacks, and I could go on and on. However..No.. the range is short and the setup isn’t that simple unless an easy target waiting to die..ie. other thieves don’t backstab me. Thieves spamming 1 do look silly but as I said the range, lag and everything else. If you have a problem with backstabs which are very focused maybe you’ve only played Gw2 for two minutes and missed the aoe effects of ele’s, necros, guardians and the pummel of rangers bows from a distance hitting harder and easier.

I’d like to also add last night I pummeled a silly mesmer only to get killed while in stealth by his illusions..who are by far smarter than the average mesmer.

Turbo Whale.1738:

The 10 backstabs in a row was an exaggeration to show my point, but it definitely is not uncommon to see thieves stealth for an extended period of time using hs > blackpowder, shadow refuge, C/D as soon as stealth runs out, or simply chaining stealth cds like HiS allowing for a very large window for making as many backstab attempts as wanted without punishment.

I think it’s better to try and counter / evade the Cloak & Dagger. It’s likely easier as well. In a prolonged C&D chain the C&D’s will follow up on a 4 second interval. Failing their C&D will also eat half their initiative bar and possibly break the chain completely.

but everyone else gets put on cooldown

Backstab should not be spammable like it is currently. 3 sec cooldown would be good. Note that this wouldn’t be a nerf, just a way to make thief less noob friendly as a class. Currently it’s definitely the most hand-helding of all professions.

Some classes can still have the OP’s suggested effect though. Say, if mesmer blocks / evades near his clones, the thief’s backstab lands on a clone, revealing him. Same for ranger evading near his pet.

I think in the current rule-set backstabbing a pet already breaks stealth and puts the thief under revealed?

frans.8092:

I think in the current rule-set backstabbing a pet already breaks stealth and puts the thief under revealed?

Yes. Good rangers and mesmers use this all the time.

Erm..yeah..no..I hear you about backstab being spammable – but its much easier hitting a heartseeker or any other ability. From a perspective of a player that knows his enemies and how to survive – backstab is lameo – oh you died by backstab -should have gone to spec savers.

Your reward for dodging is a confirmation on his position.
Turn around and kill him.

when you miss a backstab, you cut yourself and die.

We’ve touched on this topic a bit here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-attacking-in-stealth-and-not-revealed/first

• I don’t think a thief missing backstab because they are out-of-range should reveal them
• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

Sebrent.3625:

We’ve touched on this topic a bit here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-attacking-in-stealth-and-not-revealed/first

• I don’t think a thief missing backstab because they are out-of-range should reveal them
• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

This would make sense, if warriors lost adrenaline when they fail a burst skill. If mesmer had all clone and phantasm abilities put on a GCD anytime they miss a shatter skill. Etc Etc

unstealth =! revealed
reveal has a 3s duration.

how about, blocked backstab induce 3sec daze and apply reveal

typical
thief
hating
bads

Shemsu.8721:

Sebrent.3625:

We’ve touched on this topic a bit here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-attacking-in-stealth-and-not-revealed/first

• I don’t think a thief missing backstab because they are out-of-range should reveal them
• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

This would make sense, if warriors lost adrenaline when they fail a burst skill. If mesmer had all clone and phantasm abilities put on a GCD anytime they miss a shatter skill. Etc Etc

• What currently happens when the Thief has their backstab blocked, dodged, etc? Oh yeah, the thief immediately backstabs again.

• What happens when a warrior’s burst skill is blocked, dodged, etc? It goes on cooldown

• What happens when a mesmer’s shatter is blocked, dodged, etc? The shatter goes on cooldown and up to 3 illusions now need to be replaced

So currently the Thief doesn’t care at all that they missed while the Warrior and Mesmer do. So why do we need to nerf the other two for the Thief to care about playing badly and making mistakes?

I do agree with reveal being added on evade, block, blind, ect but I don’t agree with the on miss thing. In places like wvw latency could be an issue for some people and I don’t think misjudging range should be punished. It doesn’t take away opening strike from a ranger when they miss but does on evade and block.

Sebrent.3625:

Shemsu.8721:

Sebrent.3625:

We’ve touched on this topic a bit here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-attacking-in-stealth-and-not-revealed/first

• I don’t think a thief missing backstab because they are out-of-range should reveal them
• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

This would make sense, if warriors lost adrenaline when they fail a burst skill. If mesmer had all clone and phantasm abilities put on a GCD anytime they miss a shatter skill. Etc Etc

• What currently happens when the Thief has their backstab blocked, dodged, etc? Oh yeah, the thief immediately backstabs again.

• What happens when a warrior’s burst skill is blocked, dodged, etc? It goes on cooldown

• What happens when a mesmer’s shatter is blocked, dodged, etc? The shatter goes on cooldown and up to 3 illusions now need to be replaced

So currently the Thief doesn’t care at all that they missed while the Warrior and Mesmer do. So why do we need to nerf the other two for the Thief to care about playing badly and making mistakes?

Ok, If you want Back Stab to reveal on miss. I would counter with CnD being unblockable (Stealth applied,Damage not when blocked). This should be a fair trade off.

Reveal on block would certainly be reasonable. On evade – well you’re evading something that you can’t see but are expecting so not when this occurs. As to the cool down argument the average thief has 3 seconds to position and apply a backstab a mesmers shatter is not under the condition of use within 3 seconds and be behind your (if they are smart) moving opponent and within close melee range.

Sebrent.3625:

Shemsu.8721:

Sebrent.3625:

We’ve touched on this topic a bit here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-attacking-in-stealth-and-not-revealed/first

• I don’t think a thief missing backstab because they are out-of-range should reveal them
• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

This would make sense, if warriors lost adrenaline when they fail a burst skill. If mesmer had all clone and phantasm abilities put on a GCD anytime they miss a shatter skill. Etc Etc

• What currently happens when the Thief has their backstab blocked, dodged, etc? Oh yeah, the thief immediately backstabs again.

• What happens when a warrior’s burst skill is blocked, dodged, etc? It goes on cooldown

• What happens when a mesmer’s shatter is blocked, dodged, etc? The shatter goes on cooldown and up to 3 illusions now need to be replaced

So currently the Thief doesn’t care at all that they missed while the Warrior and Mesmer do. So why do we need to nerf the other two for the Thief to care about playing badly and making mistakes?

Yay lets play the “compare skills and mechanics that aren’t even remotely similiar” game! I think my necromancer wells should shoot fireballs at targets on the map because elementalists get fireball attacks!

Shadowskill.9852:

Sebrent.3625:

Shemsu.8721:

Sebrent.3625:

We’ve touched on this topic a bit here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-attacking-in-stealth-and-not-revealed/first

• I don’t think a thief missing backstab because they are out-of-range should reveal them
• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

This would make sense, if warriors lost adrenaline when they fail a burst skill. If mesmer had all clone and phantasm abilities put on a GCD anytime they miss a shatter skill. Etc Etc

• What currently happens when the Thief has their backstab blocked, dodged, etc? Oh yeah, the thief immediately backstabs again.

• What happens when a warrior’s burst skill is blocked, dodged, etc? It goes on cooldown

• What happens when a mesmer’s shatter is blocked, dodged, etc? The shatter goes on cooldown and up to 3 illusions now need to be replaced

So currently the Thief doesn’t care at all that they missed while the Warrior and Mesmer do. So why do we need to nerf the other two for the Thief to care about playing badly and making mistakes?

Ok, If you want Back Stab to reveal on miss. I would counter with CnD being unblockable (Stealth applied,Damage not when blocked). This should be a fair trade off.

Would it?

• If a warrior isn’t hitting you, they aren’t gaining adrenaline … unless, they use traits/utilites to gain it other ways (like a thief with their stealth … imagine that).
• If you block, dodge, blind, etc. vs a Mesmer when they cast an illusion, the Illusion isn’t even cast. No illusion = no shatter.
• A Mesmer can not summon illusions on someone/something other than you and have them do damage to you nor run to you to shatter on you … but you can use any other target to hit with Cloak and Dagger so that you can then stealth and use backstab, tactical strike, sneak attack, etc. against the Mesmer.

So how is it not currently fair? Why does your spammable source of stealth need to suddenly be unblockable?

Lol.

Play a thief then come back and realize how dumb this suggestion is… lol.

Mathias.9657:

Play a thief then come back and realize how dumb this suggestion is… lol.

I have. The suggestion is not dumb (unless they think out-of-range should reveal as well … then it’s dumb).

Many of us are simply asking thieves to play with the same skill expected of everyone else. Remove your training wheels and be rewarded for only good play and be punished for bad play.

Is the op serious?? Haha. L2P please stop qqing cause you got owned by a thief. Kk thnx!

Mathias.9657:

Play a thief then come back and realize how dumb this suggestion is… lol.

i gave u a +1. obv non thief trolls here. BS hits successsfully somewhere around 25-30% as is. yes thats right boys and girls around 25-30 % . now if u implement a miss = revealed. now we are talking around 5-8% successful hit which means you are dropping the intended best dmg class down to around 5th. pfft horrible idea. plz listen to mathias and go play a thief in pvp for a few weeks :P ull fail. Now i do understand that thieves are good in 1 v 1 scenarios although those are irrelevant in game i guess pride is the problem. this is also a l2 kitten ue. if ur getting slammed by BSs easily you are a bad player. im sorry but you are. the best thing you can do is hop on a thief and learn their movement inclinations and respond accordingly when u switch back. when i fight a thief (lets say in a 5 min battle) it MAY get hit once max by a backstab. id give u tips but i find most people, once in a certain mindset, have to wanna learn or will be resistant to being taught.

also: if you dont actually touch somebody why would it reveal you while ur invis….if u roll u make noise…shouldnt that revealed you too? what if i fire a cluster bomb in stealth and hit nobody….should that reveal me? it sounds more along the lines of a sore loser/bad player issue. thieves are like bees….swat them away/move or stand still and by annoyed/stung :P . i know they wont attack you in groups. i doubt you will go into a real jungle by yourself….why would you go on a warzone solo?

Sebrent.3625:

• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

LMAO – i would never get hit by another backstab again. EVER

I already barely ever get touched by BS thieves as is.

This is yet another nerf that would lessen the viability of thieves in high end TPvP just to make all the lil boys n girls in hot join happy.

rmBossa.4621:

Sebrent.3625:

• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

LMAO – i would never get hit by another backstab again. EVER

I already barely ever get touched by BS thieves as is.

This is yet another nerf that would lessen the viability of thieves in high end TPvP just to make all the lil boys n girls in hot join happy.

yeah. idk what other peoples problems are but no matter what class i play i barely and rarely ever get hit by BS. like i said it will drop to around 7-8% chance of a successfull backstab. and lets say crit chacne is 50% that means that 3.5-4% chance of a successful crit bs….lol….so fair right?

lets say 50% is the success for bs. (i think its more like 33% or less but hey ill be generous) now the amount of tries for BS is generally 2 per invis which is 2 per 4 seconds. then 3 seconds of reveal and 1-2seconds to re invis so in all its 2 bs attempts in a total of 9 seconds in a pristine/perfect scenario. now you cut that down to revealed on misses you are now looking at 1 attempt(lets say the first usually misses bc if there is 2 per 4 secs the first has to miss for a 2nd chance)….so now we have a 4 sec reveal after a 2 sec atack in invis …now ur getting beat on etc and u try to CND (granted it works) or you 5 2 2 for invis on d/p (granted they dont reveal you….. you ahve to heal up /play defensively longer to make up for the miss. so in all your dps is cut in half (minimum…most likely so much more.) and your incoming dmg is atleast 33% more. now this is all under the assumption that you arent CCd/aoed/blocked/KD or blinded and crippled. add in all the other variables and its a very dibilitating nerf all bc a l2 kitten ue. go look at a few videos of people fighting thieves….(not thieves videos) but of videos other people fighting against thieves……watch how many times they get bs. and dont go find the one video of a nub getting owned. its quite easy to avoid when u know how/when/where to do it.

I have decimated my fair share of hotjoin noobs. So I somewhat feel responsible

gw1 hotjoins were ….usually amazing talent every match. always 1-2 bad players but atleast half of every match were very elitely skilled players..,, they dumbed down gw2 too much i think. let people be lazy and fall into 5 1 2 2 combos too repetitvely.

I would welcome the change because after that kind of change there would be 0 whining over backstab thief (or that person would be laughed off the forums by every class) and other weapon sets would get buffed so we can have more viable builds. As it stands right now I have 0 problems perma stealthing into position to engage with backstab. If you are engaging early enough to get countered (other than aegis) then you were outplayed and should be punished.

The thief should be about finesse and outplaying your opponent with our high mobility and how easy it is to change position without being tracked. I do think with that kind of change a damage boost would be in order to reward good play.

YourOwnFear.2743:

I would welcome the change because after that kind of change there would be 0 whining over backstab thief (or that person would be laughed off the forums by every class) and other weapon sets would get buffed so we can have more viable builds. As it stands right now I have 0 problems perma stealthing into position to engage with backstab. If you are engaging early enough to get countered (other than aegis) then you were outplayed and should be punished.

The thief should be about finesse and outplaying your opponent with our high mobility and how easy it is to change position without being tracked. I do think with that kind of change a damage boost would be in order to reward good play.

Unfortunately the most likely scenario is that it would get the nerf and then something else would get nerfed a long with it and we’d get a token buff a long the lines of “dagger auto attack poison now lasts 1s longer”

On the flipside if other weapon sets did get buffed, wouldn’t that be great?

Yeah, except for those that like playing backstab style in a game where your meant to be free to choose your build and style

Considering stuff like P/X needs buffing anyway, nerfing an “ok” weapon set in exchange for a buff to a set that already needs buffing is just exchanging a punch in the face for a kick to the head

Dasorine.1964:

Yeah, except for those that like playing backstab style in a game where your meant to be free to choose your build and style

Considering stuff like P/X needs buffing anyway, nerfing an “ok” weapon set in exchange for a buff to a set that already needs buffing is just exchanging a punch in the face for a kick to the head

What your not getting is this would only be a nerf to bads. Good players will adapt and play better. I also mentioned that the change should come with a damage buff so technically if you are a good player this should only be a buff.

I give examples showing that the current system allows thieves to get away with bad play without any drawbacks while other classes are punished when they do the same.

Some of you reply simply assuming that others are bad and simply say “learn to play”.

The former provides reasoning. The latter is just childish.

i challenge ANYONE here to come fight me 1 v 1. the challenge is not to win. but to see your % of successful backstabs. you have to make a video uncut footage of you trying as we will not see you in stealth i owuld love to see your successful bs hit . then we come back to the forums and tell everyone ur around 20 im betting lol. anyone take me up on this?

yes you could surmise that i am saying l2p from my last comment. but we will leave that up to results?