If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.
You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?
Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.
In my thread someone posted this:
What if detecting an invisible enemy was a boon on the detector and not on the invisible person. So, for example, someone who is invisible would appear (to the detecting person only) like one of the assassins in COF p2.
The invisible person would still get all the bonuses from being invisible (condition removal, boon generation, etc.).
It would therefore, take some coordination to track down the thief. “He’s to you’re right, left, behind you, he’s running away”
I think this method could work just as well as what evilapprentice and I suggested. And might be slightly less convoluted semantically than allowing the Thief to be in both the Stealth state and the Detected state simultaneously.
More testing will have to go into this to determine which method would be the better approach. But both are certainly much more fair to the Thief than simply giving everybody access to Revealed application.
If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.
You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?
Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.
It’s really baffling that they chose to keep the Revealed duration increase in sPvP only, where Stealth was already less viable than in both WvW and PvE…
Not to mention the effort it takes in sPvP to unlearn the muscle memory developed by the fluent Stealth attack + full auto-chain rotation in other modes.
If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.
You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?
Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.
It’s really baffling that they chose to keep the Revealed duration increase in sPvP only, where Stealth was already less viable than in both WvW and PvE…
Not to mention the effort it takes in sPvP to unlearn the muscle memory developed by the fluent Stealth attack + full auto-chain rotation in other modes.
Oh trust me, I was baffled at the time as well, Since I made videos showing how stupid stealth was in this game, then they changed it, then reverted it the next patch in the bloody mode it was overpowered in.
sPvP of course is a completely different beast. There is a reason things like Spirit Rangers were oped in that mode and not in World vs World.
Anet though has proven though time and time again, They have virtually zero idea of how to balance a game, let alone multiple modes of it. I mean you have to be inept to pull some of the balance decisions in this game.
Thanks for the assist Kaon, Yih just wasn’t getting it – the ludicrous rigidity in his semantics was kittening exhausting.
I still haven’t seen a single post that can provide an even half-way decent reason why this suggestion isn’t superior to what Anet is planning. Now how do we get a Dev response here?
Now how do we get a Dev response here?
I’ve heard that sacrificing a virgin works well, in combination with the usual ritual chants done in tune to "What’s Going On?’ by Marvin Gaye.
(edited by Imagi.4561)
If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.
You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?
Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.
Uhhh, yeah? That’s exactly what I said in my post. Perhaps you should re-read my post before jumping to belittle it.
If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.
You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?
Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.
Uhhh, yeah? That’s exactly what I said in my post. Perhaps you should re-read my post before jumping to belittle it.
Umm..did you read your post, because it seems you didn’t.
You implied no one has trouble with Stealth in TPvP, and said stealth isn’t viable…So if they must add something for WvW zerging scrubs as you put it… it should be such and such.
The reason no one has trouble in TPvP is because its weaker then World vs World…For a number of reason, but more importantly, because reveal is a bloody full second longer then World vs World.
If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.
You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?
Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.
Uhhh, yeah? That’s exactly what I said in my post. Perhaps you should re-read my post before jumping to belittle it.
Umm..did you read your post, because it seems you didn’t.
You implied no one has trouble with Stealth in TPvP, and said stealth isn’t viable…So if they must add something for WvW zerging scrubs as you put it… it should be such and such.
The reason no one has trouble in TPvP is because its weaker then World vs World…For a number of reason, but more importantly, because reveal is a bloody full second longer then World vs World.
Eh, I can’t help but feel that you’re saying the same thing as me, or that I’m simply not getting your point.
I’m aware of the difference in revealed time, but even if it were at 3 again, I still don’t think that stealth would be viable because you can’t properly cap/defend points and competent players know how to counter stealth. That’s my point, competent players in tPvP don’t have any trouble with it. The players who do are those who don’t know how to counter it, and considering that most complaints about stealth come from WvW where it’s powerful, it’s reasonable to say that they are the ones who require a direct counter ability.
(edited by Incurafy.6329)
Personally I would rather see perma stealth stance like ability. Activate it you are invisible. Attack or deactivate triggers a 5-15 second cool down but you cannot enter stealth until you leave combat (when you are able to swap utilities). Reduce movement speed while invisible to 75% of normal run speed. Trait can increase stealthed movement by 50% to a max of perma 33% ims while invisible. Move this trait to grandmaster.
This would solve everyone’s problems.
Personally I would rather see perma stealth stance like ability. Activate it you are invisible. Attack or deactivate triggers a 5-15 second cool down but you cannot enter stealth until you leave combat (when you are able to swap utilities). Reduce movement speed while invisible to 75% of normal run speed. Trait can increase stealthed movement by 50% to a max of perma 33% ims while invisible. Move this trait to grandmaster.
This would solve everyone’s problems.
You’re talking about re-working stealth in its entirety. That’s just not feasible. One of the major points of my suggestion is it would be simple to implement, does not change the current power level of stealth and stealth attacks, and would keep both sides happy.
Personally I would rather see perma stealth stance like ability. Activate it you are invisible. Attack or deactivate triggers a 5-15 second cool down but you cannot enter stealth until you leave combat (when you are able to swap utilities). Reduce movement speed while invisible to 75% of normal run speed. Trait can increase stealthed movement by 50% to a max of perma 33% ims while invisible. Move this trait to grandmaster.
This would solve everyone’s problems.
You’re talking about re-working stealth in its entirety. That’s just not feasible. One of the major points of my suggestion is it would be simple to implement, does not change the current power level of stealth and stealth attacks, and would keep both sides happy.
yes but my system is better. and its not that much of a rework. all it would really adjust is timers.
Personally I would rather see perma stealth stance like ability. Activate it you are invisible. Attack or deactivate triggers a 5-15 second cool down but you cannot enter stealth until you leave combat (when you are able to swap utilities). Reduce movement speed while invisible to 75% of normal run speed. Trait can increase stealthed movement by 50% to a max of perma 33% ims while invisible. Move this trait to grandmaster.
This would solve everyone’s problems.
You’re talking about re-working stealth in its entirety. That’s just not feasible. One of the major points of my suggestion is it would be simple to implement, does not change the current power level of stealth and stealth attacks, and would keep both sides happy.
yes but my system is better. and its not that much of a rework. all it would really adjust is timers.
Better is a matter of opinion – I disagree, but that doesn’t really matter. You wouldn’t just need to re-adjust timers – you’d need to look at every single steatlh related trait, skill or attack and adjust it to these new timers. They’re all designed for short duration stealth with short revealed timers and no speed penalty. Make no mistake, you’re talking about completely redesigning stealth. You’re talking about completely changing the way thief plays. That’s a tremendous overhaul compared to a “Detected” debuff that makes you visible while in stealth.
Just watched the livestream. Ranger Sic Em will apply 4s Revealed instantly, and cannot be dodged.
It’s worse than I thought. No possibility for counter play except perma-stealthing so they can’t acquire a target to begin with.
Disgusting.
I can’t imagine how ANet could have taken into account all the concerns raised in this thread and the other one I made in the Game Discussion forums and still decide it’s perfectly fine to go ahead and implement it as is.
Without a proper justification from ANet, it’s reasonable to assume that they simply ignored the 2 weeks worth of feedback we provided despite asking for it.
(edited by Kaon.7192)
i don’t think this will be that bad. rangers cant kill me even if i don’t stealth.
Can a guardian? A warrior? Mesmer? Engy? Necro? Ele? Or god forbid another Thief?
What about any of the above plus a Ranger with Sic Em equipped?
The point I’m trying to make is we need to react now lest we fall prey to this age old metaphor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
I can’t imagine how ANet could have taken into account all the concerns raised in this thread and the other one I made in the Game Discussion forums and still decide it’s perfectly fine to go ahead and implement it as is.
Without a proper justification from ANet, it’s reasonable to assume that they simply ignored the 2 weeks worth of feedback we provided despite asking for it.
I doubt this was ever read by anyone at Anet, Kaon.
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