Guild Wars 2

DEV PLEASE GIVING THIEF DAMAGE BOOST IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IN PVE AND PVP YOU ARE GOING TO NERF IT EVERY SINGLE PATCH RELEASE
PEOPLE WILL COME TO FORUM AND WHINE

How about get rid of > Hidden Killer, Sundering Strike, Flawless Strike
and buff something like Hidden Killer > strike enemy from stealth thief now gain 25% for 3 sec attack speed or move Invigorating Precision down to Master trait and reduce it to 10% heal
or moving Sundering Strike down to minor adept trait line and reduce to 33%
FLAWLESS STRIKE > on critical strike 90% health sustain to get bonus ARE YOU kittenING KIDDING ME ! WHO DESIGNED THIS TRAIT

or giving venomous aura combine with leeching venom put it in deadly art

we dont have access to burning

our poison, bleed, torment and confusion must be strong and viable in every game mode

WE ALREADY HAVE VERY GOOD DAMAGE ALREADY

WE NEED IS USEFUL TRAITS

Eh, caps doesn’t make it so.

Thief damage is actually a good ways behind many other classes in PvE. Yes, you could make a thief worth taking in a raid by giving them some sort of additional external utility, but it’s arguable that we already have that with venoms.

However, more dps can make thieves viable in PvE. This has happened in dungeon metas before where you bring your damage buffing classes (warriors with banners, ranger with spotter/frost spirit, etc.) and then you bring a thief with higher personal dps to take advantage of those damage buffs.

In PvP, I honestly think that we have about all the tools we need and are only held back by the power creep and bunker meta from HoT, but with the nerfs other classes are getting, I expect we’ll be in a better place. The AA damage will help, but won’t make a huge change.

“How about getting rid of Hidden Killer and buff something like Hidden Killer”?

I’m confused.

I have no idea what anet plans to do – a dmg increase on auto attack doesn’t sound like a good idea – with that I agree, also with that most of our traits could use some work – but I’m afraid I don’t get your point.

And I disagree that thief has got all the tools they need – for D/P and staff this might be true, but not for the rest of the builds right now. But yes, the damage of other classes is too high – so maybe anet plans to reduce the overall damage and therefore buffs thieves? (unlikely, I know).

more damage means more nerf incoming that is why damage boost patch is the worse option

when people realize bunker is no more and +1 unblockable stun thief roaming around back stab for 6 k follow by 1-2 k on auto attack that is very fast attack will get thief nerf

6 k backstabs and 1-2 auto is lower than the damage we already have – just saying (lower than what other classes dish out as well). But yes, more nerfs coming in – I agree on that. but hey, thief traditionally doesn’t go past a nerf in whatever patch and there’s nothing left to nerf, so they had to buff things to carry on the tradition.

I do not think more damage on the AA will be as world changing as is suggested. The thief will remain a hit and run fighter and not just stand there swinging it out. This will force other classes to adapt in that they can not just save blocks/invulns for those big incoming attacks as the AA will hurt them.

babazhook.6805:

I do not think more damage on the AA will be as world changing as is suggested. The thief will remain a hit and run fighter and not just stand there swinging it out. This will force other classes to adapt in that they can not just save blocks/invulns for those big incoming attacks as the AA will hurt them.

That’s actually a good argument – if anet really thought like this they’re smarter than I thought. Plus: They have something to nerf in the future. (No offense – just 7 months being a punching bag took its toll).

Jana.6831:

6 k backstabs and 1-2 auto is lower than the damage we already have – just saying (lower than what other classes dish out as well). But yes, more nerfs coming in – I agree on that. but hey, thief traditionally doesn’t go past a nerf in whatever patch and there’s nothing left to nerf, so they had to buff things to carry on the tradition.

4-6k backstab on bunker build and 8-9k backstabs on zerker build
1-2 auto on bunker and maybe 3-4 on zerker build class
base from PvP
in WvW you can reach 12k-15k

correct me if im wrong

Jinx.4619:

Jana.6831:

6 k backstabs and 1-2 auto is lower than the damage we already have – just saying (lower than what other classes dish out as well). But yes, more nerfs coming in – I agree on that. but hey, thief traditionally doesn’t go past a nerf in whatever patch and there’s nothing left to nerf, so they had to buff things to carry on the tradition.

4-6k backstab on bunker build and 8-9k backstabs on zerker build
1-2 auto on bunker and maybe 3-4 on zerker build class
base from PvP
in WvW you can reach 12k-15k

correct me if im wrong

You’re wrong. Also damage is completely variable based on the opponent. And these high backstab numbers that can only be achieved through a full signet full zerker build against a light class with zerker are nowhere near indicative of the normal backstab damage. As a Thief main for 3 years I can tell you that I average, with a full zerker maraurder armor build, 8k backstabs in WvW. If i get really lucky I’ll hit a 10k on a mes with +250 power buff and I get lucky enough to crit.

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

I do not think more damage on the AA will be as world changing as is suggested. The thief will remain a hit and run fighter and not just stand there swinging it out. This will force other classes to adapt in that they can not just save blocks/invulns for those big incoming attacks as the AA will hurt them.

That’s actually a good argument – if anet really thought like this they’re smarter than I thought. Plus: They have something to nerf in the future. (No offense – just 7 months being a punching bag took its toll).

Some of those nerfs were justified given the context of the game at the time. In hindsight with other changes made they did not seem warranted but we have to remember what was going on THEN.

Too often a fix for an imbalance was "Skill XXX op on thief so we are going to tone it down while at the same time “we need a way for class BBB to deal with the thief and that OP XXX so we will add this”.

One of those two changes might have addressed the issue with said skill. Two used in conjunction just created more imbalance.

One issue I have given the experience with adding the Revenant and the elite skill lines is that doing such in the future in the same manner will lead to more balance issues wherein it becomes a never ending cycle of finally achieving some sort of balance with an existing set of traitlines and professions and then breaking it again by adding more.

Change can keep a game fresh but it can also lead to a whole lot of grief. It just might be something we will have to accept and persist through again. Most that love playing the thief class are very persistent.

Well right now thief autos average about 15% lower than necro dagger auto, ele lighting dagger auto, and warrior axe auto, while we lack access to their might stacking and (in combat) survivability. After this boost we’ll be 8-13% higher than those 3, bringing our sustained damage in line with them and increasing the reward for the risk.

It seems, based on their description, that we are a suitably high risk class with all the reveal, blocks, invulns, and general counterplay knowledge added since release. Now it seems that we need better rewards instead of decreased risk. Sustained damage (autos) are the better way to go because an improvement to burst would either lead to complaints about people being instagibed or would be absorbed by an autoproc. We’ll see how it goes though.

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Nope. Sword, dagger, and staff got more damage, but pistol (which is already far behind) got no damage boost.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Nope. Sword, dagger, and staff got more damage, but pistol (which is already far behind) got no damage boost.

I believe Jana was referring to the boots made to poistol prior which was substantial. Pistol does have as much an issue with damage as it does with ramge/utility and survival and the damge takes a lot of INI .

babazhook.6805:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Nope. Sword, dagger, and staff got more damage, but pistol (which is already far behind) got no damage boost.

I believe Jana was referring to the boots made to poistol prior which was substantial. Pistol does have as much an issue with damage as it does with ramge/utility and survival and the damge takes a lot of INI .

I was – dagger and staff are going to get more damage – they didn’t get any by now. sword is going to be faster, pistol got a buff a few months ago. Honestly, I think the weaponset itself is that weak (= without utility) that a damage boost wouldn’t help much. But I’m kind of sceptical that dagger damage buff will help anything – maybe I will be proven wrong.

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Nope. Sword, dagger, and staff got more damage, but pistol (which is already far behind) got no damage boost.

I believe Jana was referring to the boots made to poistol prior which was substantial. Pistol does have as much an issue with damage as it does with ramge/utility and survival and the damge takes a lot of INI .

I was – dagger and staff are going to get more damage – they didn’t get any by now. sword is going to be faster, pistol got a buff a few months ago. Honestly, I think the weaponset itself is that weak (= without utility) that a damage boost wouldn’t help much. But I’m kind of sceptical that dagger damage buff will help anything – maybe I will be proven wrong.

The changes to D/d auto help the d/p build as much as the d/d build and for that reason alone will not nudge d/d builds closer to that of d/p in usage. The fix to d/d has to come from off hand.

The boosts will help d/d but they will not suddenly make it preferable to other sets in a power build.

I myself anticipate the changes to AA will help s/X more in relative terms.

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Nope. Sword, dagger, and staff got more damage, but pistol (which is already far behind) got no damage boost.

I believe Jana was referring to the boots made to poistol prior which was substantial. Pistol does have as much an issue with damage as it does with ramge/utility and survival and the damge takes a lot of INI .

I was – dagger and staff are going to get more damage – they didn’t get any by now. sword is going to be faster, pistol got a buff a few months ago. Honestly, I think the weaponset itself is that weak (= without utility) that a damage boost wouldn’t help much. But I’m kind of sceptical that dagger damage buff will help anything – maybe I will be proven wrong.

The changes to D/d auto help the d/p build as much as the d/d build and for that reason alone will not nudge d/d builds closer to that of d/p in usage. The fix to d/d has to come from off hand.

The boosts will help d/d but they will not suddenly make it preferable to other sets in a power build.

I myself anticipate the changes to AA will help s/X more in relative terms.

My mission has never been to buff (only) D/D – it’s just that because of D/P the devs have got a lazy excuse because D/P survives nearly everything. All other sets died in June wheras D/P made it until HoT – for a reason – and that was one of the reasons for my thread.
But yes, I want D/D to be viable again but that doesn’t mean that D/P is my enemy and I want it to be killed. And that I’m that stupid that I think a dagger mainhand buff wouldn’t buff D/P – but thanks

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Nope. Sword, dagger, and staff got more damage, but pistol (which is already far behind) got no damage boost.

I believe Jana was referring to the boots made to poistol prior which was substantial. Pistol does have as much an issue with damage as it does with ramge/utility and survival and the damge takes a lot of INI .

I was – dagger and staff are going to get more damage – they didn’t get any by now. sword is going to be faster, pistol got a buff a few months ago. Honestly, I think the weaponset itself is that weak (= without utility) that a damage boost wouldn’t help much. But I’m kind of sceptical that dagger damage buff will help anything – maybe I will be proven wrong.

The changes to D/d auto help the d/p build as much as the d/d build and for that reason alone will not nudge d/d builds closer to that of d/p in usage. The fix to d/d has to come from off hand.

The boosts will help d/d but they will not suddenly make it preferable to other sets in a power build.

I myself anticipate the changes to AA will help s/X more in relative terms.

My mission has never been to buff (only) D/D – it’s just that because of D/P the devs have got a lazy excuse because D/P survives nearly everything. All other sets died in June wheras D/P made it until HoT – for a reason – and that was one of the reasons for my thread.
But yes, I want D/D to be viable again but that doesn’t mean that D/P is my enemy and I want it to be killed. And that I’m that stupid that I think a dagger mainhand buff wouldn’t buff D/P – but thanks

Put the word NOT in front of that stupid and you would be more accurate

How nice of you, baba – how about: You read what I write and answer to that? And don’t assume that my IQ is below yours

ETA: If your answer to this will be “Excuse me, but I’m playing this game too” you’ve killed me for the night.

Jana.6831:

How nice of you, baba – how about: You read what I write and answer to that? And don’t assume that my IQ is below yours

ETA: If your answer to this will be “Excuse me, but I’m playing this game too” you’ve killed me for the night.

Excuse me but I am playing the game too.

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

How nice of you, baba – how about: You read what I write and answer to that? And don’t assume that my IQ is below yours

ETA: If your answer to this will be “Excuse me, but I’m playing this game too” you’ve killed me for the night.

Excuse me but I am playing the game too.

You really should have that as a signature – to prove your intellect =)

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

How nice of you, baba – how about: You read what I write and answer to that? And don’t assume that my IQ is below yours

ETA: If your answer to this will be “Excuse me, but I’m playing this game too” you’ve killed me for the night.

Excuse me but I am playing the game too.

You really should have that as a signature – to prove your intellect =)

No need to prove anything. I am comfortable with what I have and what I do not have.

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

For one thing I would love for improvisation go become master tier and panic strike to be merged with executioner. Atleast in pvp deadly arts is like bread and butter for thief no matter the build.

Fix it so range weapons dont hit thief if fired just before thief gain stealth, and give back SA Line 50% dmg reduction in stealth back
Remove aftercast on weapons and reducere cd on untillities and redo bad ones.
And dagger AA boost +
Then thief good

The thing that hurt was the nerfs to our defense and utility that kept us back from ever excelling at anything but bursts, and then over time others got buffs to those 2 things while we got little to nothing. Naturally the buff to others’ sustain and mitigation traits meant an even deeper hit on our offense which is why things like backstab hardly gets the praise it deserves these days, even though I think it is a very good skill.

Anet just got out of hand with trying to improve build diversity by giving people the defensive tools to survive on any build, which ended up giving high dps builds high sustain and we’re left with kittens like tempest and chronomancer being able to tank and kill incredibly efficiently once mastered. Thief on the other hand (not the only culprit, but definitely on the top of the list) got left behind with outdated mechanics, traits, weapon sets that never adapted to this new trend.

Can you count the amount of times you:

-Found a thief amidst a group fight and picked it off due to ease
-played a thief and were hesitant to enter a group fight at risk of being focus fired or simply dying from enemy AoE
-ran away from a simple 1v1 as a thief because the enemy was too tanky and the ally of an enemy was approaching in a build that would eat you for breakfast lunch and dinner
-made the slightest mistake playing thief and spent the next 30 seconds or more trying to get back on your feet
-watched your enemy recover to full health after your thief’s burst

I enjoy d/d power for the theme and the challenge and in many cases I can still pick my fights quickly and take out high risk fights like reaper or DH or even scrapper. However there is almost no room for error when those builds can just spam random buttons and finish me off. A buff to our auto attack damage will do almost nothing, even with the proposed ~30% dps increase on sword (from attack speed). We need updates to our kit, not flat dps buffs. We already have the potential damage to kill many builds, just a mild adjustment to damage could help but the bigger buff would come from giving us unique effects to tackle these tanky builds and help our sustain to not be so unforgiving.

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

First up, I’m not playing ’Who’s got it worst’, since I’d like all Thief weapon options to be equally fun and viable.

I also find it disgraceful that GW2 makes so much more money than a couple of other MMOs that I play (so should have far more resources to throw into balance for everybody), but has worse skill sets, and expects those at the bottom of the heap to wait for months and months to get necessary buffs while it spends only the minimal resources to fix (at best!..) only one little subset; kicking everything else even further to the right.

Sure, on 29th Sept 2015 pistols got:-

• Vital Shot: Increased damage by 24%.
• Unload: Increased damage per shot by 26%.
• Sneak Attack: Increased attack damage per shot by 25%.

But they also got:-

• Ankle Shots: Removed the hidden range increase that this trait unlocked.

And we got this from our esteemed Karl:-

“FYI the damage increases weren’t part of a re-work of pistols or anything (something I’ve discussed in the past). We realize it still needs some work to get it to where we want, but we wanted to get it closer to being to that point with these changes. We’ll be looking at pistols more in-depth in the future.

-Karl"

Unless he pulls it out the bag, with a last-second reveal in the patch notes, pistols have been kicked to the right to the next balance patch after this one; 8 months at best. That’s 8 months counting from the last pistol buff, but even that’s not really right since the buff wasn’t that great anyway for MH pistol users.

Those that also use OH pistol benefit from the buffed Unload [which is awesome IMO!], but #1 and #2 are still rubbish [and #4 and #5 are no use to me either, when running P/P in most of the content I play].

Ideally, #1 (basic cheap/free/builder whatever) should be worth using in itself (as it is in TSW or Wildstar say) and not be garbage that you only use because it’s free: it should have a proper fix… but, in the meantime, I’d take a further damage or RoF buff just to keep us going until it’s done properly.

That’s what’s wrong with that, since you asked. My worry now, like I wrote, is that pistols will be skipped in this patch, with the intention that they’ll get fixed in the patch after this one… but some Thieves working properly after this patch [and more power to ‘em, and I’m genuinely very pleased for them] will lead to all Thieves getting nerfed.

So not only will pistols not get their fix but they’ll end up nerfed to worse than they are now, without ever even having the pleasure of a few months of balance, fun and awesomeness before the nerf.

We’ll see.

Haptic Repulse.9437:

Jinx.4619:

Jana.6831:

6 k backstabs and 1-2 auto is lower than the damage we already have – just saying (lower than what other classes dish out as well). But yes, more nerfs coming in – I agree on that. but hey, thief traditionally doesn’t go past a nerf in whatever patch and there’s nothing left to nerf, so they had to buff things to carry on the tradition.

4-6k backstab on bunker build and 8-9k backstabs on zerker build
1-2 auto on bunker and maybe 3-4 on zerker build class
base from PvP
in WvW you can reach 12k-15k

correct me if im wrong

You’re wrong. Also damage is completely variable based on the opponent. And these high backstab numbers that can only be achieved through a full signet full zerker build against a light class with zerker are nowhere near indicative of the normal backstab damage. As a Thief main for 3 years I can tell you that I average, with a full zerker maraurder armor build, 8k backstabs in WvW. If i get really lucky I’ll hit a 10k on a mes with +250 power buff and I get lucky enough to crit.

If you’re running DA/CS/Tr, the above numbers are pretty accurate, frankly.

The big reduction in damage doesn’t so much come from armor but rather protection on top of high armor. Cele eles take much less than they should due to protection uptime and innate toughness bonuses. Necros have a lot of protection. Rangers auto-apply weakness and have tons of built-in mitigation and protection. Frankly, I find myself often hitting warriors and guards for more damage than I do lights and mediums from all the protection and passive mitigation they have. Thieves are absolutely the squishiest targets, and my stabs regularly without signets hit for around 12-15k. Signets on, they escalate to above 20k pretty frequently.

I’ve stabbed for 26k before in WvW and 14k in sPvP. Without signets, my stabs in WvW hover around 12-16k and in sPvP usually much lower due to the extra stress of building for durability whereas damage in WvW is a much bigger deal.

It certainly can swing wildly with build, but typically speaking, hovering in that number area is pretty normal.

AsurasRCute.4136:

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

First up, I’m not playing ’Who’s got it worst’, since I’d like all Thief weapon options to be equally fun and viable.

I also find it disgraceful that GW2 makes so much more money than a couple of other MMOs that I play (so should have far more resources to throw into balance for everybody), but has worse skill sets, and expects those at the bottom of the heap to wait for months and months to get necessary buffs while it spends only the minimal resources to fix (at best!..) only one little subset; kicking everything else even further to the right.

Sure, on 29th Sept 2015 pistols got:-

• Vital Shot: Increased damage by 24%.
• Unload: Increased damage per shot by 26%.
• Sneak Attack: Increased attack damage per shot by 25%.

But they also got:-

• Ankle Shots: Removed the hidden range increase that this trait unlocked.

And we got this from our esteemed Karl:-

“FYI the damage increases weren’t part of a re-work of pistols or anything (something I’ve discussed in the past). We realize it still needs some work to get it to where we want, but we wanted to get it closer to being to that point with these changes. We’ll be looking at pistols more in-depth in the future.

-Karl"

Unless he pulls it out the bag, with a last-second reveal in the patch notes, pistols have been kicked to the right to the next balance patch after this one; 8 months at best. That’s 8 months counting from the last pistol buff, but even that’s not really right since the buff wasn’t that great anyway for MH pistol users.

Those that also use OH pistol benefit from the buffed Unload [which is awesome IMO!], but #1 and #2 are still rubbish [and #4 and #5 are no use to me either, when running P/P in most of the content I play].

Ideally, #1 (basic cheap/free/builder whatever) should be worth using in itself (as it is in TSW or Wildstar say) and not be garbage that you only use because it’s free: it should have a proper fix… but, in the meantime, I’d take a further damage or RoF buff just to keep us going until it’s done properly.

That’s what’s wrong with that, since you asked. My worry now, like I wrote, is that pistols will be skipped in this patch, with the intention that they’ll get fixed in the patch after this one… but some Thieves working properly after this patch [and more power to ‘em, and I’m genuinely very pleased for them] will lead to all Thieves getting nerfed.

So not only will pistols not get their fix but they’ll end up nerfed to worse than they are now, without ever even having the pleasure of a few months of balance, fun and awesomeness before the nerf.

We’ll see.

My point was that pistol was already buffed damage wise – but you still call for more damage buffs. So if the increase as it is now isn’t enough another likely won’t be enough either. The damage is out of control since June anyway which makes most if not all fights RNG and rather boring as it’s usually “hit first = win”.

Also, how does an OH pistol thief profit from the buffed unload?
P/P has always been kitten – and I’ve been around for 2 years – my guess is that it simply lacks utility. So, in my opinion, the devs can’t just buff a bit damage here and a bit there and it will work – until they don’t redesign it it will never work.

And btw: thief is my favourite class – I don’t know all weapon sets that well but I never looked down on anyone because he was using this or that set or wanted that set/build to be gone – not even the stealth trapper build.

P/P has been rather poor due to the mere fact it just chews through initiative to deal damage, and the rest of the kit simply has horrible coefficients for both power and condition builds – Body Shot is horrible and Vital Shot has both poor power and condition damage scaling, and the nerf to BP, while very important for D/P thief, hurt P/P a lot more than was necessary. Interruption synergy is the only thing it really has, and that falters a lot due to the ridiculous evasion/block/invuln/reflect uptime most kits have right now.

P/P offers crazy damage via unload spam, though; almost 1.5 backstabs per use. Makes more sense imho to tone down unload and buff Body Shot and the likes.

DeceiverX.8361:

P/P has been rather poor due to the mere fact it just chews through initiative to deal damage, and the rest of the kit simply has horrible coefficients for both power and condition builds – Body Shot is horrible and Vital Shot has both poor power and condition damage scaling, and the nerf to BP, while very important for D/P thief, hurt P/P a lot more than was necessary. Interruption synergy is the only thing it really has, and that falters a lot due to the ridiculous evasion/block/invuln/reflect uptime most kits have right now.

P/P offers crazy damage via unload spam, though; almost 1.5 backstabs per use. Makes more sense imho to tone down unload and buff Body Shot and the likes.

Yeah, unload was buffed too much and the autos not enough. It’s a ranged eviscerate in terms of damage and the set still isn’t great. P/P 1, 2, and 3 need a redesign.

Don’t know, Blinding shots are pretty nice with unload – maybe a blast finisher and a port would be nice. And with port I mean the classical teleport – like you can chose where to port to – not neccessarily to your opponent.

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

First up, I’m not playing ’Who’s got it worst’, since I’d like all Thief weapon options to be equally fun and viable.

I also find it disgraceful that GW2 makes so much more money than a couple of other MMOs that I play (so should have far more resources to throw into balance for everybody), but has worse skill sets, and expects those at the bottom of the heap to wait for months and months to get necessary buffs while it spends only the minimal resources to fix (at best!..) only one little subset; kicking everything else even further to the right.

Sure, on 29th Sept 2015 pistols got:-

• Vital Shot: Increased damage by 24%.
• Unload: Increased damage per shot by 26%.
• Sneak Attack: Increased attack damage per shot by 25%.

But they also got:-

• Ankle Shots: Removed the hidden range increase that this trait unlocked.

And we got this from our esteemed Karl:-

“FYI the damage increases weren’t part of a re-work of pistols or anything (something I’ve discussed in the past). We realize it still needs some work to get it to where we want, but we wanted to get it closer to being to that point with these changes. We’ll be looking at pistols more in-depth in the future.

-Karl"

Unless he pulls it out the bag, with a last-second reveal in the patch notes, pistols have been kicked to the right to the next balance patch after this one; 8 months at best. That’s 8 months counting from the last pistol buff, but even that’s not really right since the buff wasn’t that great anyway for MH pistol users.

Those that also use OH pistol benefit from the buffed Unload [which is awesome IMO!], but #1 and #2 are still rubbish [and #4 and #5 are no use to me either, when running P/P in most of the content I play].

Ideally, #1 (basic cheap/free/builder whatever) should be worth using in itself (as it is in TSW or Wildstar say) and not be garbage that you only use because it’s free: it should have a proper fix… but, in the meantime, I’d take a further damage or RoF buff just to keep us going until it’s done properly.

That’s what’s wrong with that, since you asked. My worry now, like I wrote, is that pistols will be skipped in this patch, with the intention that they’ll get fixed in the patch after this one… but some Thieves working properly after this patch [and more power to ‘em, and I’m genuinely very pleased for them] will lead to all Thieves getting nerfed.

So not only will pistols not get their fix but they’ll end up nerfed to worse than they are now, without ever even having the pleasure of a few months of balance, fun and awesomeness before the nerf.

We’ll see.

¹ My point was that pistol was already buffed damage wise – but you still call for more damage buffs. So if the increase as it is now isn’t enough another likely won’t be enough either. The damage is out of control since June anyway which makes most if not all fights RNG and rather boring as it’s usually “hit first = win”.

² Also, how does an OH pistol thief profit from the buffed unload?
P/P has always been kitten – and I’ve been around for 2 years – my guess is that it simply lacks utility. So, in my opinion, the devs can’t just buff a bit damage here and a bit there and it will work – until they don’t redesign it it will never work.

³ And btw: thief is my favourite class – I don’t know all weapon sets that well but I never looked down on anyone because he was using this or that set or wanted that set/build to be gone – not even the stealth trapper build.

¹ You’d have to experiment a bit with Vital Shot to see how unbelievably, incredibly weak it is. What that means is that it was uber-weak before the buff; so the buff wasn’t enough. Note that I won’t keep asking for more damage, once ‘enough’ is actually reached; same as I was delighted with the Unload buff and constantly argue strenuously that we should just leave it as is now.

I’m not after out of control one-shotting human opponents, but having an AA that doesn’t require 4-6 shots (if SoA and SoF don’t proc), from my max-DPS built, full-Ascended gear (except earrings) Thief, to drop a wolf in Queensdale!

² I wrote, "… since the buff wasn’t that great anyway for MH pistol users.

Those that also use OH pistol benefit from the buffed Unload."

So it’s “MH pistol users” + (“also”) “OH pistol”: those who fulfill both parts, to either side of the “also”, profit from the buffed Unload. Aye, the set’s biggest problem is that it’s a complete dog’s dinner, failing to do much of anything synergistically or well (except hit stuff hard with Unload spam).

It does need a proper fix but, in the meantime, a further buff to Vital Shot (damage or/and RoF) would help to keep us ticking over until Anet eventually deigns to fix pistols properly. The AA doesn’t need to do anything fancy, just hit decently hard (or/and have a decent RoF) would be ample. The set’s utility would come more from a sorted #2, #4 and #5.

³ Yup, your Thief credentials are beyond any doubt, and I wasn’t suggesting that you did look down on anyone; sorry if you got the impression that I thought you did.

You seem a bit sore about P/P – so you took a simple question as an attack – I guess I better leave you alone.

Sure, I’m a bit sore about a few things, but wanting to wait until the full balance patch notes (rather than only limited preview) are released before possibly ranting.

But none of this is your fault, so I honestly took your simple questions as simple questions, and tried to answer them as best I could. I didn’t get any attack vibe from you at all, nor did I intend to respond with any. Sorry if it read otherwise.

Devs said they will give us 20~30% damage increase
Thief already deal high enough damage
like i said some traits are useless and dont deserve to be a master trait ex. sundering strike or grand master triat ex Hidden Killer
and when Dev realize giving damage buff to thief is a bad idea instead of putting more work effort how to balance the trait line and buff us by balancing trait line

After 2nd season end they will say sorry to over buff Thief and back to beginning (15% damage nerf right away after season 2 end)
Mostly low skill mesmer using zerker build will complain ALOT