Guild Wars 2

I can t dispel snare anymore, I can’t have my auto hide bellow 25% health and others anymore because I have to puts points on letal arts instead, but this tree is poor for us. The damges of the condi build has not been improved compared to damegas of gardians, eles, mezmers!!!
the hide when we resurect people is a poor skill.
The only build i can do is d/p and spike people without immune to burst. We have no sustain, no immune, poor hide, we can be reveal too easily etc.

We are not hunters anymore but hunted, this thief is the best joke from 2 years. You wanted to kill thief it is done ANET.

Thx arena net. Thief is the main poor build of the whole game and I am going to leave the game anyway after 2 year playing thief.
or maybe I am going to run a burning gardian and blocks every attacks, stacks several burns and do monster damage on my target all the day long.

The thief condi build is or (I can now happily say) was one of the most over powered builds to exists in terms of WvW builds. It stacks a stupid amount of condi’s while having access to stealth with a ridiculous amount of defense. There was pretty much no downside to it. The only thing that has changed is that the condi thief’s damage output has not been buffed too much, mainly because it has no access to burn (thank god)

Having played condi thief myself, I could hold a 3v1 with very little effort.

The build needed to be nerfed, and thankfully it has now indirectly been nerfed.

What are you talking about? What kind of condi? I was playing bleed with krait rune.
Maybe you are talking about venom. This is the unusful build I have ever seen. nobody play it exept you then.

Doug.4930:

The thief condi build is or (I can now happily say) was one of the most over powered builds to exists in terms of WvW builds. It stacks a stupid amount of condi’s while having access to stealth with a ridiculous amount of defense. There was pretty much no downside to it. The only thing that has changed is that the condi thief’s damage output has not been buffed too much, mainly because it has no access to burn (thank god)

Having played condi thief myself, I could hold a 3v1 with very little effort.

The build needed to be nerfed, and thankfully it has now indirectly been nerfed.

And yet, look what happened to Mesmers… Something tells me Anet doesn’t know what its doing.

“I could hold a 3v1 with very little effort” excluding the part where you probably weren’t killing them because you spent a majority of that time just hiding. Not to mention, this is WvW we’re talking about, the majority of players there are vastly inferior to hard core PvP players.

I’ve won 1v4’s out there kitten and I run a hybrid build that isn’t even P/D. SPvP though, much much different story. Condi was already pretty weak in SPvP and now thanks to these changes and extreme power creep, plus the formula changes due to stacking nerfing our core source of condi dmg, these changes have actually pushed condi thief out of SPvP in terms of being effective.

It’s so bad due to all of these changes that I went from always playing a condi thief, even in SPvP, to now playing burst thief. Having the ability to stack poison doesn’t make much of a difference for condi thieves other than opening up spider venom as a viable venom for venom sharing. And even then it’s likely they’re still playing burst while using leeching venoms as added burst / healing. Also, another would be good option for poison stacking was also nerfed before even given a chance to run live and see it in action, which not only loses poison uptime, but damage due to formula changes and duration loss – so it’s pretty much unsuccessful as a condi option now. (Speaking of Shortbow / #4 skill choking gas)

And anyway, condi thieves weren’t OP, especially not in a team fight. P/D is way better in a 1v1 than a 1vx situation. And really what made it “OP” is Rune of Perplexity which was much … much easier to utilize as a stealth class, than a non stealth class. So the whole thing that made it feel so ridiculous is confusion on steal + confusion on being hit thanks to the set and lastly, confusion on interrupt.

Really though, P/D was pretty hard countered by deflect / reflect projectile. Can’t say how many times I’ve wrecked P/D thieves using stolen warrior skill or simply dagger storm. They’re also quite ineffective vs elementalists and necros will simply give them the condis back.

The build was hardly OP. even with perplexity runes if you actually knew how to fight it instead of just spamming skills through confusion. And as it stands now, condi thief NEEDS some buffs to traits / weapon sets to be worth anything at all now compared to everything else in the game. As it is now, condi thief is pretty bad.

So bad that I’ve forsaken my favorite play style to play something that’s actually effective.

If this WvW the title is invalid if PvP I’m still testing. Potent Poison could use a damage boost though.

kop.8724:

What are you talking about? What kind of condi? I was playing bleed with krait rune.
Maybe you are talking about venom. This is the unusful build I have ever seen. nobody play it exept you then.

I am just going to Lol at you, you play mega cheese condi bleed, krait rune thief, haha ty anet for nerfing this cheese build, good riddance to rubbish
Condi thief build should only be used by very new thieves as a “crutch” for them to get used to stealth, but the amount of platinum and gold ranked thief using cheese condi bleed thief in wvw is appalling… Anyway to op learn to play another thief build…… And cheese condi krait thief is more powerful than venom thief LOOL

Have to agree with doug here, the build was pretty broken. Condi in general needs a nerf, but anet decides to buff it. Don’t whine because you can’t faceroll people 3v1 with bleeds, torment and confusion anymore.

I too ran a bleed build pre-patch, and the changes nerfed it all to Hades; stacking 25 bleeds felt like I was tickling the backs of some knees. Then I looked at some of the skills and traits I’d ignored before the patch, and found that things I’d never even considered (like venoms) were now far more attractive. Since it was still condition damage, I didn’t have to change gear except to run a new weapon set (p/d/sb) and swap out runes.

Now, I actually deal more damage and survive better than prepatch. My mobility and stealth are a more natural pattern, my sources of damage (bleed, poison, torment and confusion) hit harder and are more spread out (so harder to clear), and I pop in and out of stealth while being highly mobile. I’ve even got a little more utility going.

To top it off, I’m even stronger in group setting instead of weaker like I once was.

tl;dr: We’re not as strong as some of the other classes, but we’re not out of the game. Look at the new skills and traits for things you’ve never tried before.

Every meta was once someone’s experiment.

Venomd have too long cd to be useful on this game.

Venoms where used to intensify condi damage from traps on thief. Traps deal less damage now nearly half.

I picked up my condi thief a few days ago after patch etc. I like it even more.

Melted faces

Why?

- basically a venom share thief now (poison + torment + bas venom)
- improvisation trait sometimes lands on venoms and boyyyy when it does the aids are REALLLLL
- when I use a heal skill it places a trap (immobilize etc)
- despite flat 30% boon/condi DURATION being totally wiped from old trait lines I’m still sitting at 60-70% condi duration
- Torment Runes are hilarious (I got sick of Krait and wanted to try out torment)
- instead of daze on steal I have confusion as it is now a DoT condi

Basically this build is the queen of aids and it works for me. 60% of the time I don’t even use SR because my 2nd wep set is D/P.

My only problems so far:

- constantly swapping out movement speed signet for SR when enemy is near or if I have time
- trap ranger (because 2 on you at the same time with 8 burn stacks + a plethora of other god-knows-what condis on you is not fun)
- little to no stun breaks save for P/D skill #3 which is the lol factor of this aids build (torment is fun)
- other condi classes in general

It’s a fun build. I like it and I’m having fun.

It was one of, if not the single most overpowered small-scale fighting build in the game lol. It’s in a reasonable place right now and requires a bit more active play than just camping in stealth and dealing ridiculous amounts of damage.

While mesmer is broken, it doesn’t mean everything should be buffed to compensate it; mesmers need a tone down.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Condition-Build-2/first#post5242375 i made this on patch day it had the best combinations. Yes know traps where weakened last night. We will have plenty of noobs who didnt trap try justify. Yes it is still effective.

Zephyra.4709:

I picked up my condi thief a few days ago after patch etc. I like it even more.

Melted faces

Why?

- basically a venom share thief now (poison + torment + bas venom)
- improvisation trait sometimes lands on venoms and boyyyy when it does the aids are REALLLLL
- when I use a heal skill it places a trap (immobilize etc)
- despite flat 30% boon/condi DURATION being totally wiped from old trait lines I’m still sitting at 60-70% condi duration
- Torment Runes are hilarious (I got sick of Krait and wanted to try out torment)
- instead of daze on steal I have confusion as it is now a DoT condi

Basically this build is the queen of aids and it works for me. 60% of the time I don’t even use SR because my 2nd wep set is D/P.

My only problems so far:

- constantly swapping out movement speed signet for SR when enemy is near or if I have time
- trap ranger (because 2 on you at the same time with 8 burn stacks + a plethora of other god-knows-what condis on you is not fun)
- little to no stun breaks save for P/D skill #3 which is the lol factor of this aids build (torment is fun)
- other condi classes in general

It’s a fun build. I like it and I’m having fun.

Curious. Do you trait pressure strike in there? With d/p off hand and basi venom you got some good interrupt access. With them torment runes I know the torment off the 6 bonus is quite long. Which heal do you use? If it hide in shadows you can place that trap from respite right at the guys feet and load torment on him> rather nice.

#Thanksobama

Seriously though, thief is fine. It’s much to early to make such exaggerated, sweeping statements. Give it some time, effort, and time.

i play condi p/d thief with krait. it’s actually real easy to play. it has range, bleed, quick escape. and dont really care what people thought bout it as long as i have fun with it

you play condi theif and are quitting the game? ……thanks. bye.

I main a theif and have played a dire/plexity rune set up….. ridiculously easy, low risk build.

also yeah it isnt nerfed at all, you are most likely just so complacent with the previous cheese-meta you havent adapted…. prolly because you play condi cheese in the first place..

kop.8724:

Venomd have too long cd to be useful on this game.

If you diversify your build a little, you can use Improvisation to dramatically reduce the CD on your skills. While it won’t always be Venoms that get cooled down, it will almost always be something, and thieves have enough solid skills in each category that this can only be used to our advantage. Personally I use a trick(Withdraw), 2 Venoms(depends on fight which ones), a Signet (again, depends on fight which one) and a deception (Thieves Guild).

Also, don’t forget that you can chain Venoms if you pre-cast; ie use the Venoms before the pull, stack conditions on the target, then reapply and cast again. Followed by a steal, there’s a decent chance you’ll be able to immediately use those venoms yet again. If not, it’s only a few seconds of downtime on some of the conditions before it’s time to go again!

Jesiah.2457:

“I could hold a 3v1 with very little effort” excluding the part where you probably weren’t killing them because you spent a majority of that time just hiding. Not to mention, this is WvW we’re talking about, the majority of players there are vastly inferior to hard core PvP players.

I’ve won 1v4’s out there kitten and I run a hybrid build that isn’t even P/D. SPvP though, much much different story. Condi was already pretty weak in SPvP and now thanks to these changes and extreme power creep, plus the formula changes due to stacking nerfing our core source of condi dmg, these changes have actually pushed condi thief out of SPvP in terms of being effective.

It’s so bad due to all of these changes that I went from always playing a condi thief, even in SPvP, to now playing burst thief. Having the ability to stack poison doesn’t make much of a difference for condi thieves other than opening up spider venom as a viable venom for venom sharing. And even then it’s likely they’re still playing burst while using leeching venoms as added burst / healing. Also, another would be good option for poison stacking was also nerfed before even given a chance to run live and see it in action, which not only loses poison uptime, but damage due to formula changes and duration loss – so it’s pretty much unsuccessful as a condi option now. (Speaking of Shortbow / #4 skill choking gas)

And anyway, condi thieves weren’t OP, especially not in a team fight. P/D is way better in a 1v1 than a 1vx situation. And really what made it “OP” is Rune of Perplexity which was much … much easier to utilize as a stealth class, than a non stealth class. So the whole thing that made it feel so ridiculous is confusion on steal + confusion on being hit thanks to the set and lastly, confusion on interrupt.

Really though, P/D was pretty hard countered by deflect / reflect projectile. Can’t say how many times I’ve wrecked P/D thieves using stolen warrior skill or simply dagger storm. They’re also quite ineffective vs elementalists and necros will simply give them the condis back.

The build was hardly OP. even with perplexity runes if you actually knew how to fight it instead of just spamming skills through confusion. And as it stands now, condi thief NEEDS some buffs to traits / weapon sets to be worth anything at all now compared to everything else in the game. As it is now, condi thief is pretty bad.

So bad that I’ve forsaken my favorite play style to play something that’s actually effective.

Difference of opinion I suppose. But having played both WvW and Spvp the skill cap always varies(zerglings not included). Most of the roamers in WvW are Spvp players. Many Spvp players/teams iv fought against are more skilled in winning matches than 1v1’s.

And yes in wvw you usually come across players you can beat 1v4, even if your running full glass. But the Dire condi thief build that stacks bleeds running either perp (with daze) or krait (with confusion) can easily hold its own (and sometimes win) against experienced roamers (spvp players/duelists etc). Now lets be honest any build that is capable of that is broken.

Condi thief is tanky, has a high hp, does insane condi burst and essentially has no downside. Even reflecting projectiles doesn’t really do anything, as the thief is usually in stealth, and the consequential bleeds it stacks on itself are usually cured by SE.

Yes its possible to outplay a condi thief of course. But the condi player has a huge advantage, which is unbalanced in my opinion. The build is less strong in Spvp, although i’d say cele P/D which was also pretty strong in spvp was nerfed by this too, for which I am also thankful.

welcome to thief bud, its burst or die. That’s the class, get used to it.

I dunno man,

One of my main PvP chars is a P/D Thief, and I actually feel like we do more damage now. They made the lethal arts tree add so much poison damage that my poison is actually like a second bleed now…..with a little bit of torment thrown in for fun.

I will agree that some of our trait lines are kinda bleh….and I will also agree, we do have a decent dead timer, meaning once we blow our rotation….we dont have much left but sb spam.

But for the last 2 weeks ive consistantly been top player on spvp, and still am a brutal roamer in WvW.

The biggest difference I see is that I actually think we are EVEN STRONGER 1v1…..and we are now a little weaker 1v2+

My suggestion….run the move speed signet. At the start of this build I was also having some trouble surviving. That 25% move speed somehow fixed it. Just being able to get that extra 1/3 distance while stealthed was the diff between being caught out of stealth in leap distance, and being home free for my rotation to come back up :P.

Luclinraider.2317:

I dunno man,

One of my main PvP chars is a P/D Thief, and I actually feel like we do more damage now. They made the lethal arts tree add so much poison damage that my poison is actually like a second bleed now…..with a little bit of torment thrown in for fun.

I will agree that some of our trait lines are kinda bleh….and I will also agree, we do have a decent dead timer, meaning once we blow our rotation….we dont have much left but sb spam.

But for the last 2 weeks ive consistantly been top player on spvp, and still am a brutal roamer in WvW.

The biggest difference I see is that I actually think we are EVEN STRONGER 1v1…..and we are now a little weaker 1v2+

My suggestion….run the move speed signet. At the start of this build I was also having some trouble surviving. That 25% move speed somehow fixed it. Just being able to get that extra 1/3 distance while stealthed was the diff between being caught out of stealth in leap distance, and being home free for my rotation to come back up :P.

May I know what is your spec with this so much poison damage?

I have to agree with Luclinraider. My main is a P/D condi thief (have been since original beta, before it was considered a cheese build).

I’m seeing insane damage now, far more than pre-patch. I’m also feeling a lot more useful in group situations.

Jesiah.2457:

“I could hold a 3v1 with very little effort” excluding the part where you probably weren’t killing them because you spent a majority of that time just hiding. Not to mention, this is WvW we’re talking about, the majority of players there are vastly inferior to hard core PvP players.

I’ve won 1v4’s out there kitten and I run a hybrid build that isn’t even P/D. SPvP though, much much different story. Condi was already pretty weak in SPvP and now thanks to these changes and extreme power creep, plus the formula changes due to stacking nerfing our core source of condi dmg, these changes have actually pushed condi thief out of SPvP in terms of being effective.

It’s so bad due to all of these changes that I went from always playing a condi thief, even in SPvP, to now playing burst thief. Having the ability to stack poison doesn’t make much of a difference for condi thieves other than opening up spider venom as a viable venom for venom sharing. And even then it’s likely they’re still playing burst while using leeching venoms as added burst / healing. Also, another would be good option for poison stacking was also nerfed before even given a chance to run live and see it in action, which not only loses poison uptime, but damage due to formula changes and duration loss – so it’s pretty much unsuccessful as a condi option now. (Speaking of Shortbow / #4 skill choking gas)

And anyway, condi thieves weren’t OP, especially not in a team fight. P/D is way better in a 1v1 than a 1vx situation. And really what made it “OP” is Rune of Perplexity which was much … much easier to utilize as a stealth class, than a non stealth class. So the whole thing that made it feel so ridiculous is confusion on steal + confusion on being hit thanks to the set and lastly, confusion on interrupt.

Really though, P/D was pretty hard countered by deflect / reflect projectile. Can’t say how many times I’ve wrecked P/D thieves using stolen warrior skill or simply dagger storm. They’re also quite ineffective vs elementalists and necros will simply give them the condis back.

The build was hardly OP. even with perplexity runes if you actually knew how to fight it instead of just spamming skills through confusion. And as it stands now, condi thief NEEDS some buffs to traits / weapon sets to be worth anything at all now compared to everything else in the game. As it is now, condi thief is pretty bad.

So bad that I’ve forsaken my favorite play style to play something that’s actually effective.

I’d like to think I’m not THAT bad in sPvP. Yet I continue to use a burst conditionner venomshare, I still win matches and have better spot presence for the same mobility (I’m not counting s/d ofc) than a power thief.

Jesiah.2457:

“I could hold a 3v1 with very little effort” excluding the part where you probably weren’t killing them because you spent a majority of that time just hiding. Not to mention, this is WvW we’re talking about, the majority of players there are vastly inferior to hard core PvP players.

I’ve won 1v4’s out there kitten and I run a hybrid build that isn’t even P/D. SPvP though, much much different story. Condi was already pretty weak in SPvP and now thanks to these changes and extreme power creep, plus the formula changes due to stacking nerfing our core source of condi dmg, these changes have actually pushed condi thief out of SPvP in terms of being effective.

It’s so bad due to all of these changes that I went from always playing a condi thief, even in SPvP, to now playing burst thief. Having the ability to stack poison doesn’t make much of a difference for condi thieves other than opening up spider venom as a viable venom for venom sharing. And even then it’s likely they’re still playing burst while using leeching venoms as added burst / healing. Also, another would be good option for poison stacking was also nerfed before even given a chance to run live and see it in action, which not only loses poison uptime, but damage due to formula changes and duration loss – so it’s pretty much unsuccessful as a condi option now. (Speaking of Shortbow / #4 skill choking gas)

And anyway, condi thieves weren’t OP, especially not in a team fight. P/D is way better in a 1v1 than a 1vx situation. And really what made it “OP” is Rune of Perplexity which was much … much easier to utilize as a stealth class, than a non stealth class. So the whole thing that made it feel so ridiculous is confusion on steal + confusion on being hit thanks to the set and lastly, confusion on interrupt.

Really though, P/D was pretty hard countered by deflect / reflect projectile. Can’t say how many times I’ve wrecked P/D thieves using stolen warrior skill or simply dagger storm. They’re also quite ineffective vs elementalists and necros will simply give them the condis back.

The build was hardly OP. even with perplexity runes if you actually knew how to fight it instead of just spamming skills through confusion. And as it stands now, condi thief NEEDS some buffs to traits / weapon sets to be worth anything at all now compared to everything else in the game. As it is now, condi thief is pretty bad.

So bad that I’ve forsaken my favorite play style to play something that’s actually effective.

You have no ideawhat you are talking about. Dont know why you comment in forums. Condi thief is way OP if you play it right you must be doing it all wrong ahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I would like if they merged CiS and Shadow Protector then put fall damage by itself on Master Slot. I’m not feeling the impact of venoms as usual, I’m losing interest in traps since I have to take a rune to make them useful, the new condition traits are too weak and the patch was disappointing. For WvW you can make anything work but in PvP condition thief is at the bottom, please stop those YOLO 4 venoms+SR or d/d SoM ballerina thief specs and alike.

Ok i finally decided to try out Condi dagger dagger, SB off hand focusing on poison. Venomshare used along with leeching venoms.

In Pve this works fine. As soon as I specced him out we were figthing Jormag and after shares i was getting 3+k tick bleeds 5+k tick poisons and 2k+ torments on the dragon and the various champions we fought. This even when the dragon up in the air. With leeching oodles of healing came in. the sharing really boosted overall damage .

I took it over to WvW and about break even in 1v1’s. There a whole lot of conditions flying around at this level and it was hard to get a stealth to cleanse them but when I did get into Iv1 or two i could easily get over 1k poison ticks (more if shared) from the poison and it was easy to put on again.

I did not have a runeset of Orr completed yet so I used Rata Sum of all things. Given bleed duration on base daggers is so high I wanted to get poison as high as possible without taking potent poison and got that up to 90 percent. Rata sum has a radiation field and that piles on bleeds and weakness if they decide to stand in it.

I tried potent poison but found i could get more damage on with Improv as any utility reset allowed more in the way of poison and bleeds. (withdraw/RFI/spider venom/XXX/Basi) .

Precison was fairly decent at 28 percent chance of crit meaning a DB would tend proc a crit so I put a generosity sigil one weapon malice the other. I might switch up malice and put blight , earth ot AOE torment. I did not take pressure strike instead taking trickery so the withdraw and RFI could clear conditions.

Weakness runs a full 7 seconds on posion with that 10 second cooldown so unless cleansed there reall good uptime on that and with vigor nerfed the impact of 50 percent less endurance gain is significant.

it not as survivable as p/d or the p/p trapper condi build I was using but if you play it right in a group your venom shares can really turn a battle around quick.

finally d/d is just more fun than PD. I really had a blast with Jormag fight and those death blossoms/AAS endless dodging in and out dropping caltrops.

babazhook.6805:

Ok i finally decided to try out Condi dagger dagger, SB off hand focusing on poison. Venomshare used along with leeching venoms.

In Pve this works fine. As soon as I specced him out we were figthing Jormag and after shares i was getting 3+k tick bleeds 5+k tick poisons and 2k+ torments on the dragon and the various champions we fought. This even when the dragon up in the air. With leeching oodles of healing came in. the sharing really boosted overall damage .

I took it over to WvW and about break even in 1v1’s. There a whole lot of conditions flying around at this level and it was hard to get a stealth to cleanse them but when I did get into Iv1 or two i could easily get over 1k poison ticks (more if shared) from the poison and it was easy to put on again.

I did not have a runeset of Orr completed yet so I used Rata Sum of all things. Given bleed duration on base daggers is so high I wanted to get poison as high as possible without taking potent poison and got that up to 90 percent. Rata sum has a radiation field and that piles on bleeds and weakness if they decide to stand in it.

I tried potent poison but found i could get more damage on with Improv as any utility reset allowed more in the way of poison and bleeds. (withdraw/RFI/spider venom/XXX/Basi) .

Precison was fairly decent at 28 percent chance of crit meaning a DB would tend proc a crit so I put a generosity sigil one weapon malice the other. I might switch up malice and put blight , earth ot AOE torment. I did not take pressure strike instead taking trickery so the withdraw and RFI could clear conditions.

Weakness runs a full 7 seconds on posion with that 10 second cooldown so unless cleansed there reall good uptime on that and with vigor nerfed the impact of 50 percent less endurance gain is significant.

it not as survivable as p/d or the p/p trapper condi build I was using but if you play it right in a group your venom shares can really turn a battle around quick.

finally d/d is just more fun than PD. I really had a blast with Jormag fight and those death blossoms/AAS endless dodging in and out dropping caltrops.

I find d/p fun and it also was the previous condi meta set up for reasons you don’t seem to understand. It was clear that you needed pistol main hand to create distance and to avoid aoe with skill 3 and dagger was only used for stealth. I don’t need to be stealthed using DIRE and I don’t know why you think d/d condi is more fun its like a cheap old school power d/d that will never compare so I don’t know what you’re trying to say anywhere.

Why the kitten would you be in someones face with a dagger and condi set up thats the dumbest thing i have read all year. You would deal thousands more damage with a pistol and unloading venoms with pistol stealth skill since you dont need to be stealthed in dire is OP as hell noooooooooob

condi thief deserved to be nerfed. now people who mained it will actually have to learn to play. lol

Forsaken.4215:

babazhook.6805:

Ok i finally decided to try out Condi dagger dagger, SB off hand focusing on poison. Venomshare used along with leeching venoms.

In Pve this works fine. As soon as I specced him out we were figthing Jormag and after shares i was getting 3+k tick bleeds 5+k tick poisons and 2k+ torments on the dragon and the various champions we fought. This even when the dragon up in the air. With leeching oodles of healing came in. the sharing really boosted overall damage .

I took it over to WvW and about break even in 1v1’s. There a whole lot of conditions flying around at this level and it was hard to get a stealth to cleanse them but when I did get into Iv1 or two i could easily get over 1k poison ticks (more if shared) from the poison and it was easy to put on again.

I did not have a runeset of Orr completed yet so I used Rata Sum of all things. Given bleed duration on base daggers is so high I wanted to get poison as high as possible without taking potent poison and got that up to 90 percent. Rata sum has a radiation field and that piles on bleeds and weakness if they decide to stand in it.

I tried potent poison but found i could get more damage on with Improv as any utility reset allowed more in the way of poison and bleeds. (withdraw/RFI/spider venom/XXX/Basi) .

Precison was fairly decent at 28 percent chance of crit meaning a DB would tend proc a crit so I put a generosity sigil one weapon malice the other. I might switch up malice and put blight , earth ot AOE torment. I did not take pressure strike instead taking trickery so the withdraw and RFI could clear conditions.

Weakness runs a full 7 seconds on posion with that 10 second cooldown so unless cleansed there reall good uptime on that and with vigor nerfed the impact of 50 percent less endurance gain is significant.

it not as survivable as p/d or the p/p trapper condi build I was using but if you play it right in a group your venom shares can really turn a battle around quick.

finally d/d is just more fun than PD. I really had a blast with Jormag fight and those death blossoms/AAS endless dodging in and out dropping caltrops.

I find d/p fun and it also was the previous condi meta set up for reasons you don’t seem to understand. It was clear that you needed pistol main hand to create distance and to avoid aoe with skill 3 and dagger was only used for stealth. I don’t need to be stealthed using DIRE and I don’t know why you think d/d condi is more fun its like a cheap old school power d/d that will never compare so I don’t know what you’re trying to say anywhere.

d/p was never in the condition meta. it a terrible set for conditions. Your post contradicts itself stating at one point you do not need to stealth in said setup beause one is in dire and than saying you stealth in order to sneak attack.

That all said you are the same guy who insisted that poison and bleed damage was nerfed so i can understand where you are coming from.

Single DB can load (if traited) 9 stacks of bleeds total lasting 20 seconds each along with a mathematical chance of getting 3 stacks of poison BEFORE any venoms used. Depending on the RNG that 3 stacks of poison can climb (or drop).

P/d is safer because of the attacks at range but there absolutely no way it can load more condition damage. The maximum number of attacks one can get off with p/d is 2 attacks per second (presuming one uses AA no stealth) . This means two stacks of bleed per second which last 4 seconds. This is single target. This means in 4 seconds you can get 8 total stacks of bleed and you can NEVER go over that 8 total stacks of bleed without adding duration from the p/d set.

In 4 seconds a person using db can load 36+ total stacks which will still be running for another 6 seconds. This is in addition to poison either from the AA or in combination with dagger training.

D/D is certainly riskier and whether a person is willing to take those extra risks using d/d for greater rewards is up to that individuals play style and level of skill . Many I am sure, will conclude they better off with more “safety” which p/d offers.

As to your d/p set you claimed the meta for condition builds no further comment is needed.

kop.8724:

I can t dispel snare anymore, I can’t have my auto hide bellow 25% health and others anymore because I have to puts points on letal arts instead, but this tree is poor for us. The damges of the condi build has not been improved compared to damegas of gardians, eles, mezmers!!!
the hide when we resurect people is a poor skill.
The only build i can do is d/p and spike people without immune to burst. We have no sustain, no immune, poor hide, we can be reveal too easily etc.

We are not hunters anymore but hunted, this thief is the best joke from 2 years. You wanted to kill thief it is done ANET.

Thx arena net. Thief is the main poor build of the whole game and I am going to leave the game anyway after 2 year playing thief.
or maybe I am going to run a burning gardian and blocks every attacks, stacks several burns and do monster damage on my target all the day long.

Someone took the training wheels off of your thief is what you mean. There was a reason condi thief has always been viewed as the cheesiest build in WvW. It was face roll with little to no counter (Zergs were its only counter) and now you actually have to partially use skill. Put on your big boy pants.

babazhook.6805:

Zephyra.4709:

I picked up my condi thief a few days ago after patch etc. I like it even more.

Melted faces

Why?

- basically a venom share thief now (poison + torment + bas venom)
- improvisation trait sometimes lands on venoms and boyyyy when it does the aids are REALLLLL
- when I use a heal skill it places a trap (immobilize etc)
- despite flat 30% boon/condi DURATION being totally wiped from old trait lines I’m still sitting at 60-70% condi duration
- Torment Runes are hilarious (I got sick of Krait and wanted to try out torment)
- instead of daze on steal I have confusion as it is now a DoT condi

Basically this build is the queen of aids and it works for me. 60% of the time I don’t even use SR because my 2nd wep set is D/P.

My only problems so far:

- constantly swapping out movement speed signet for SR when enemy is near or if I have time
- trap ranger (because 2 on you at the same time with 8 burn stacks + a plethora of other god-knows-what condis on you is not fun)
- little to no stun breaks save for P/D skill #3 which is the lol factor of this aids build (torment is fun)
- other condi classes in general

It’s a fun build. I like it and I’m having fun.

Curious. Do you trait pressure strike in there? With d/p off hand and basi venom you got some good interrupt access. With them torment runes I know the torment off the 6 bonus is quite long. Which heal do you use? If it hide in shadows you can place that trap from respite right at the guys feet and load torment on him> rather nice.

I run a similar set up, and I do take pressure striking and perp runes in addition to bewildering ambush. I mostly just roam with small groups and we are very effective.

I generally use SR, Skale Ven and Spider Ven and Basi but I’ll take thieves guild if I only have 3 buddies to ensure I get the full effect of the venom share — meaning that every engage I am personally responsible for pumping out 20stax of torment, 20 stax vuln, 30 stax poison, 10 stacks confusion and roughly 10 stax bleeding on target in a VERY short timeframe. Pretty much anyone not capable of a full cleanse just gets bursted. Oh, and 6 stax of might to the group for 20s.

IMO, condi thief has never been stronger, but hey to each their own I guess.

Forsaken.4215:

babazhook.6805:

Ok i finally decided to try out Condi dagger dagger, SB off hand focusing on poison. Venomshare used along with leeching venoms.

In Pve this works fine. As soon as I specced him out we were figthing Jormag and after shares i was getting 3+k tick bleeds 5+k tick poisons and 2k+ torments on the dragon and the various champions we fought. This even when the dragon up in the air. With leeching oodles of healing came in. the sharing really boosted overall damage .

I took it over to WvW and about break even in 1v1’s. There a whole lot of conditions flying around at this level and it was hard to get a stealth to cleanse them but when I did get into Iv1 or two i could easily get over 1k poison ticks (more if shared) from the poison and it was easy to put on again.

I did not have a runeset of Orr completed yet so I used Rata Sum of all things. Given bleed duration on base daggers is so high I wanted to get poison as high as possible without taking potent poison and got that up to 90 percent. Rata sum has a radiation field and that piles on bleeds and weakness if they decide to stand in it.

I tried potent poison but found i could get more damage on with Improv as any utility reset allowed more in the way of poison and bleeds. (withdraw/RFI/spider venom/XXX/Basi) .

Precison was fairly decent at 28 percent chance of crit meaning a DB would tend proc a crit so I put a generosity sigil one weapon malice the other. I might switch up malice and put blight , earth ot AOE torment. I did not take pressure strike instead taking trickery so the withdraw and RFI could clear conditions.

Weakness runs a full 7 seconds on posion with that 10 second cooldown so unless cleansed there reall good uptime on that and with vigor nerfed the impact of 50 percent less endurance gain is significant.

it not as survivable as p/d or the p/p trapper condi build I was using but if you play it right in a group your venom shares can really turn a battle around quick.

finally d/d is just more fun than PD. I really had a blast with Jormag fight and those death blossoms/AAS endless dodging in and out dropping caltrops.

I find d/p fun and it also was the previous condi meta set up for reasons you don’t seem to understand. It was clear that you needed pistol main hand to create distance and to avoid aoe with skill 3 and dagger was only used for stealth. I don’t need to be stealthed using DIRE and I don’t know why you think d/d condi is more fun its like a cheap old school power d/d that will never compare so I don’t know what you’re trying to say anywhere.

Along with this and you simply calling me noob and typing “ahahahahahaha” as if that was some kind of intelligent argument, I rest my case towards you. I don’t even need to mention that you are joke in PvP because even given the chance to challenge you, you would find some kind of mundane excuse to avoid such challenge and simply keep typing “Omg hahahaha noob you’re bad” instead of having any kind of intelligent discussion what so ever.

Seriously, not only learn to play issues here, but I wish there was an age limitation on forums so 12 year olds couldn’t voice their opinionated garbage on the forums. :/

That being said, enough of you, back to topic. I do think thief traps could use a little QoL change. Condi thief isn’t totally dead, but compared to burning which by itself can overshadow our entire layering of conditions, is just too much. Burn Guards / Burn elementalists are prime candidates for how ridiculous it is. Other classes seem okay, except maybe engineer, but I would put them in 3rd compared to the other two.

Not sure why I have an idiot laughing at me when I’m just discussing possible thief changes, other than the fact idiot probably doesn’t care about thief and would hate to see it being buffed in a condi sense. Burst thief is fine, condi thief is not. But most burst players do not take condi cleanse to max their burst output, which makes them somewhat weak vs condis.

Of course an idiot troll would come here hating on condis and acting like condi thief is in an all around good spot. Yeah, easy to say in WvW when you can take perplexity runes + food buffs to carry your lack of skill, but in SPvP that is a completely different story.

I am talking for the sake of SPvP thieves since I’m not really interested in drilling the hell out of WvW players who’re generally just PvE hereoes and offer little to no challenge at all, much like Forsaken here.

Seriously. I am 100% assured that Forsaken could never, ever, not even with the cheesiest thief build he could imagine – could beat me on either my burst or condi thief spec that I play. :l

I just want to see condi thieves get some proper adjustments, not have some idiot who only knows how to fight in PvE laugh at me for wanting such things.

It need be said that part of bringing a Thief condition UP to spec might warrant bringing others down. In particular burning is way too high IMHO especially when considering the amount o health available to the thief. The thief just can not hande 3 seconds of a 3600 burn. Some class with 28k in heath CAN meaning if a thief does get inflicted it clean now or die. You can not wait for a cleanse to come off cooldown.

Luclinraider.2317:

I dunno man,

One of my main PvP chars is a P/D Thief, and I actually feel like we do more damage now. They made the lethal arts tree add so much poison damage that my poison is actually like a second bleed now…..with a little bit of torment thrown in for fun.

I will agree that some of our trait lines are kinda bleh….and I will also agree, we do have a decent dead timer, meaning once we blow our rotation….we dont have much left but sb spam.

But for the last 2 weeks ive consistantly been top player on spvp, and still am a brutal roamer in WvW.

The biggest difference I see is that I actually think we are EVEN STRONGER 1v1…..and we are now a little weaker 1v2+

My suggestion….run the move speed signet. At the start of this build I was also having some trouble surviving. That 25% move speed somehow fixed it. Just being able to get that extra 1/3 distance while stealthed was the diff between being caught out of stealth in leap distance, and being home free for my rotation to come back up :P.

Very interested in your build, or if you dont want to share it in a vid of you in wvw. I’d like that a lot since I am leveling what is suppose to be a condi thief

in pvp condi thief still not valueable as before as he cant contest and hardly contribute to his team.

i tried venom share which is nice for good spike but still the power thief do more dmg and helpful in more ways . and you need good coordination with your team with venom share.

for 1v1 its still strong build with many conditions which cover the bleed and poison (poison buff for us)

in wvw roaming also very strong (and boring)

lol @ op, he doesn’t even get how a thief is being played.
Thieves are known for their burst, be it condi or power build
Every class has a way to go condi since they all have their own “main” condition like bleed/poison for necros and burn for engi/guardians. Thief’s is obviously not bleed unless you play like our dear OP here.
pic is from pve, but I done the same kitten in wvw as well. warrior went down in like 3 secs in 1v1.
Anet gave us venom share for a reason, if its really that bad they would had removed it.

lmaogg.7325:

lol @ op, he doesn’t even get how a thief is being played.
Thieves are known for their burst, be it condi or power build
Every class has a way to go condi since they all have their own “main” condition like bleed/poison for necros and burn for engi/guardians. Thief’s is obviously not bleed unless you play like our dear OP here.
pic is from pve, but I done the same kitten in wvw as well. warrior went down in like 3 secs in 1v1.
Anet gave us venom share for a reason, if its really that bad they would had removed it.

Where is the unranked/ranked video or the WvW squad video :o??

Sagat.3285:

Where is the unranked/ranked video or the WvW squad video :o??

I don’t do videos, and Im just a average player who is testing builds not even maining a thief. But I truly believe with Venom share is great for dueling and coordinated fights, even when alone make use of what we have. We are thieves, craftiness is our boon.

lmaogg.7325:

Sagat.3285:

Where is the unranked/ranked video or the WvW squad video :o??

I don’t do videos, and Im just a average player who is testing builds not even maining a thief. But I truly believe with Venom share is great for dueling and coordinated fights, even when alone make use of what we have. We are thieves, craftiness is our boon.

Are you one of those YOLO thieves with 3-4 venoms+SR laying venoms on a foe lacking awareness then “SB#5-outtahere” and watch him melt then hides till venoms are back up?

Sagat.3285:

Are you one of those YOLO thieves with 3-4 venoms+SR laying venoms on a foe lacking awareness then “SB#5-outtahere” and watch him melt then hides till venoms are back up?

Doesn’t matter how you kill your foes does it? A kill is a kill. Like I said, thieves are meant to be played cowardly. We are given stealth and escapes for a reason. And besides as a condi build, why bother going head on when you can just watch your target wither down on their own? Want a honourable fight go roll a warrior or guardian. Baiting your enemy’s heal then go full burst is like a normal strategy.
Truth is , I even once baited my foe to those veteran guard and venom share them, pretty sure it works.

lmaogg.7325:

Sagat.3285:

Are you one of those YOLO thieves with 3-4 venoms+SR laying venoms on a foe lacking awareness then “SB#5-outtahere” and watch him melt then hides till venoms are back up?

Doesn’t matter how you kill your foes does it? A kill is a kill. Like I said, thieves are meant to be played cowardly. We are given stealth and escapes for a reason. And besides as a condi build, why bother going head on when you can just watch your target wither down on their own? Want a honourable fight go roll a warrior or guardian. Baiting your enemy’s heal then go full burst is like a normal strategy.
Truth is , I even once baited my foe to those veteran guard and venom share them, pretty sure it works.

That’s all I needed thank you.

lmaogg.7325:

lol @ op, he doesn’t even get how a thief is being played.
… Thief’s is obviously not bleed unless you play like our dear OP here.
pic is from pve, but I done the same kitten in wvw as well. warrior went down in like 3 secs in 1v1.

lol @ you “thief is obviously not bleed”. Bleed and poison is all thiefs got! maybe you need to learn how thief is played.

and lol for posting a pic where you fighting in a zerg with probable food/utility buffs, banners, stacks of might and who knows what else. Post some numbers that can be achieved in solo play and all boons are sourced from yourself only. You can’t always have a zerg around…

Time to learn the Full Berserker Thief build now.

Condi thief is good against those that don’t carry a ton of cleanses, like nasty medi-guards.

Attached: Solo kill of Sentry near Klovan. I’ll dig through my screens and see if I can find any on players solo.

aBabyInMoonBoots.9635:

lol @ you “thief is obviously not bleed”. Bleed and poison is all thiefs got! maybe you need to learn how thief is played.

and lol for posting a pic where you fighting in a zerg with probable food/utility buffs, banners, stacks of might and who knows what else. Post some numbers that can be achieved in solo play and all boons are sourced from yourself only. You can’t always have a zerg around…

You dense or something? The point of the pic is just proving OP saying venom is kitten wrong. And its meant to be just an example. And go read your own tooltip for spider venom’s dmg per stack, its normal to hit that number if you venom share it and focus on the same target even without might stack. You dont need a zerg, venom share has a cap of 5 duh.. thats why I said make use of the guards etc.
As for bleed, to me its just icing on the cake, i tried krait and givers + sigils, the duration isnt even good on it compare to just focus on poison after the condi change patch.

edit: Look at uglydan’s image, he did 1.7k easily and by his utility he was doing it alone. Go multiply it by 2-5 yourself.

It would sound more convincing if both pics weren’t vs mobs and no one mentioned “a kill is a kill”,you could put venom share thief share under the same category as YOLO 4 signets d/d thief.

Don’t need pic to be convincing, just go try it out yourself. People should just stop asking for solo results when you are talking about venom SHARE. Solo isnt how it works duh.
As for “xxx skills is same as xxx build, its mehhh” mentality. No idea what you are expecting from thief, we can’t shoot rainbows even if you build it like some hipster 1 trap,1 signet,1 trick random build. If a build works, it works, simple.