My major problem with thiefs...
Wish there was like…
A mandatory help thread that people HAVE to read before being able to post on the Thief forums.
The 25% movement speed increase from the signet you are talking about works in combat. Wait…
IT WORKS IN COMBAT
Maybe that will get it through to others.
Here’s the explanation if you have read this far:
Everyone’s speed slows down when they take damage or engage in combat!
Of this slow speed, with the signet the Thief can move 25% faster than the other slow people!
If you’re having trouble with Rangers, you need more skill.
Oh man. I’m a total noob and even I facepalmed.
I see dumb people….
As Vexus said, the 25% speed buff from signet WORKS in combat, just try it, take a friend, attack a mob and compare your speed to a friends, you´ll see….
Try to do some testing ppl before you post some nonsense on the forums, it will be much appreciated. Many thanks :-)
#ELEtism 4ever
I definitely agree. As a thief, in order to compensate for our crap defense, we SHOULD move faster than everyone else. That’s what the focus of the class is, stealth, speed & evasion.
What are you talking about, crap defense?
Was PvE really that hard while leveling? Because I’ve seen no evidence of thieves having deficient defenses in WvW. Everyone gets blown up by the zerg, so don’t even try to use that as an excuse.
Thieves do have healthpool and mitigation deficiencies, but we make up for that with increased avoidance and deception. Unfortunately there are some things, such as overzealous visual effects clouding our view, that can make avoidance a real pain in the kitten :p
But i like my caltrops so much T_T
“The people, they’re nothing but children. Repeating their mistakes…
And then they die.”
And then they die.”
I do agree I can see some areas lacking, even in wvwvw tho as far as mobility.
I feel our acrobatics tree, which is the only logical place where you would expect to see quite a bit of movement increasing talents like Elementalists have in Air, is severely lacking.
I mean 33% faster movement in stealth? In a game with such short stealth duration, really?
2 !!!! sec of swiftness.. ?
ofc we have assassin’s retreat, but requires you to kill a foe, in many cases especially when outnumbered we are supposed to be by design to jump in do some damage (even if it means NOT killing) and jumping out. Not to mention anyone can get that with a sigil
then we have Hard to Catch but heh it has a cooldown.
Id trade ALL 4 for 1 trait like “Movement speed increased by 25% when wielding a Pistol (or insert weapon here)” or maybe a 30 point trait like “Combat movement speed reduction cut by 50%”
Try do a shootout vs a warriour for example. just shoot 1. Warriour will do both more direct and conditional damage.
Seems the thiefs only real bonus is we can spam the same skill a few times in the start. And then it just goes downhill from there.
Try do a shootout vs a warriour for example. just shoot 1. Warriour will do both more direct and conditional damage.
Seems the thiefs only real bonus is we can spam the same skill a few times in the start. And then it just goes downhill from there.
yea I wouldnt even mind if they spread out our damage, but give us something for more mobility, or something to nullify combat speed reduction. There are a few classes that can actually move across the field faster then a thief and without sacrificing anything that would kitten them if they ran into a fight (like sapping initiative for IA or HS as mobility speed tools) .
First of all, would people stop saying kittens, who ever thought that would be cute or funny should be shot,
Next, for other classes to get close to a thief in speed they need to trait pretty good for it, so don’t say they don’t sacrifice anything.
The only thing a thief needs in order to beat a perma swiftness toon is a shortbow. Also any half decent thief will limit putting him/herself in a possible where they are in danger after using their mobility. If you’re unable to move around in combat like you own the place, either lrn2play, reroll, or unistall.
/wtf rant
First of all, would people stop saying kittens, who ever thought that would be cute or funny should be shot,
Next, for other classes to get close to a thief in speed they need to trait pretty good for it, so don’t say they don’t sacrifice anything.
The only thing a thief needs in order to beat a perma swiftness toon is a shortbow. Also any half decent thief will limit putting him/herself in a possible where they are in danger after using their mobility. If you’re unable to move around in combat like you own the place, either lrn2play, reroll, or unistall./wtf rant
First off, the word kittens is inserted anywhere there is a swear word via the forum administrator.
Second, HS spam without using auto target is faster and better than IA with shortbow.
zzz
are u kidding me? i have yellow armor and green weapons. 20-30-20-0-0. all about burst/blind, d/d.
my guild usually has 2 groups vs a zerg, and i can get in, kill, finish, and get out.
u clearly need to get better.
LOL! Vexus I laughed so hard reading your reply!
Very Incorrect BobbyT.
If an ele specs just a little bit into air they can get in and out of combat faster then any thief, which means much higher travel speed too.
A warrior with the right weapon setup, can move as fast as a thief can (if the thief doesn’t blow his initiative), meaning once one reaches any combat the warrior will have no wait time and can fluidly enter combat right away, whilst the thief (if he blew his initiative to be faster) has to wait. This is an actual part where initiative is a curse, in terms of movement and also means the thief in actuality a less mobile class then say a warrior (unless you actually think you can do even half the things there is to do in this game without any combat and just traveling (and blowing your initiative))
Now add in the fact the thief is the only class lacking in a straight up 1200 range weapon. Something most narrow minded people do not see is; Range = Mobility
Being able to use a fluid set of abilities/weapon attacks at more range means you have not only better observation of the flow of combat, making it easier to tell when to enter/exit, but you also obviously do not need to enter into (get into close range) the enemy mob to do the main source of your damage therefore making you less susceptible to not only damage but mobility inhibiting attacks (like cripple or immobilize) AS WELL. Note: with every class except 1 having a natural state 1200 range weapon (even if the guardians is sup par its still 1200) anything distance smaller 1200 range is now considered close range
Another thought to consider; A class that can do a full rotation of say moderate damage/condition attacks at 1200 range has an exponentially greater impact on the enemy group(s) then a class that can only do a similar full rotation at high/very high damage/condition but has to be in close range. This is due to the natural survivability difference.
EX: The high/damage close range class might get a quick kill but will get CCed/insta gibbed by a group consisting of equally or close to equally skilled players.
Whilst the moderate damage/condition 1200/+ range rotation class can actually pop in and pop out of their max combat range at hearts content whilst their teammates fight as well, or at least survive till the teammates arrive whilst continuing combat. AOE makes it even worse off for the close range class.
Now I only mentioned 2 of the at least 3 classes in this case that can actually match or supersede a thief in mobility/travel time.
(edited by Knyx.5926)
Wait, crap defense? Having double evade/dodging running full time + free evades while attacking + target dropping via stealth is crap defense?
Armor means nothing, dodge/evading reigns king in GW2 and we have it in spades.
Blackwater Vanguard
Yaks Bend
Yaks Bend
How can an ele move faster? The highest move speed Increase I see is 33% for swiftness, everything else doesn’t stack. A shortbow thief still moves around faster than any swiftness toon. Yes heartseeker may be faster, but IA is no sloth.
I don’t agree with the whole range = mobility much. A 900 range thief can do just fine getting in and out just fine of combat when he needs to, 1200 is not needed imo
you get 10% movment for being attuned to air you can trait it which will give you 5% speed for every 5 seconds your in air , up to a max of 25% so now your at 30, then you can also add that 33% on top of your 30
your skill stacks with your traited
Speed boosts do not stack, from traits or skills, it certainly doesn’t stack with swiftness, It will always take the higher value. If they could stack, thieves would be able to move >50% faster with swiftness + signet of shadow. Which I assure you they don’t.
How can an ele move faster? The highest move speed Increase I see is 33% for swiftness, everything else doesn’t stack. A shortbow thief still moves around faster than any swiftness toon. Yes heartseeker may be faster, but IA is no sloth.
I don’t agree with the whole range = mobility much. A 900 range thief can do just fine getting in and out just fine of combat when he needs to, 1200 is not needed imo
You may not agree with it, but it is actually true. In a general sense it is even mentioned in the Art of War. Just because you or any thief can do fine getting in and out of combat when needed, does not mean other classes cannot do the same. As A-net advertised before release, we were supposed to be the staple mobility class. Stealth is just a fluff mechanic, this is unarguable. Other games = Perma, GW2= sub 10 seconds, and 90% of the time sub 4 seconds.
Sure, if a class that can grant itself swiftness easily does NOT use any weapon abilities that cause movement, a Thief with the signet and spamming IA/Heartseeker will move faster, and to move faster (ie: beat the other class) they have to dump the same resource they will need if they ever want to do enter combat. If the other class has movement abilities , not counting the ones granting them the swiftness, (ex: Warrior GS) which have a low cooldown, and uses them, you will see them and the thief neck and neck, and the thief will not be able to jump right into combat with a rotation but the other class (ex: warrior) will as they only have been using 1-3/10 weapon cooldown abilities in their arsenal. Sacrificing the most for equal mobility =/= superior mobility
An ele with a few points into air and only using 1 weapon cooldown will beat a thief dumping all his initiative for movement speed.
Honestly Id personally rather the thief have it’s damage spread out, causing more conditions and effects, BUT have the highest (and noticeably highest at that) mobility in the game (or the only class not to be slowed in combat) with zero weapon abilities that are detrimental to that mobility (like self root on PW) , then it’s current state
Speed boosts do not stack, from traits or skills, it certainly doesn’t stack with swiftness, It will always take the higher value. If they could stack, thieves would be able to move >50% faster with swiftness + signet of shadow. Which I assure you they don’t.
Incorrect again. They DO stack on an ele. Whilst the traits+signet might not stack with swiftness, the traits+signet ALL stack. Make an ele and test it out yourself.
How can an ele move faster? The highest move speed Increase I see is 33% for swiftness, everything else doesn’t stack. A shortbow thief still moves around faster than any swiftness toon. Yes heartseeker may be faster, but IA is no sloth.
I don’t agree with the whole range = mobility much. A 900 range thief can do just fine getting in and out just fine of combat when he needs to, 1200 is not needed imo
You may not agree with it, but it is actually true. In a general sense it is even mentioned in the Art of War. Just because you or any thief can do fine getting in and out of combat when needed, does not mean other classes cannot do the same. As A-net advertised before release, we were supposed to be the staple mobility class. Stealth is just a fluff mechanic, this is unarguable. Other games = Perma, GW2= sub 10 seconds, and 90% of the time sub 4 seconds.
Sure, if a class that can grant itself swiftness easily does NOT use any weapon abilities that cause movement, a Thief with the signet and spamming IA/Heartseeker will move faster, and to move faster (ie: beat the other class) they have to dump the same resource they will need if they ever want to do enter combat. If the other class has movement abilities , not counting the ones granting them the swiftness, (ex: Warrior GS) which have a low cooldown, and uses them, you will see them and the thief neck and neck, and the thief will not be able to jump right into combat with a rotation but the other class (ex: warrior) will as they only have been using 1-3/10 weapon cooldown abilities in their arsenal. Sacrificing the most for equal mobility =/= superior mobility
An ele with a few points into air and only using 1 weapon cooldown will beat a thief dumping all his initiative for movement speed.
Honestly Id personally rather the thief have it’s damage spread out, causing more conditions and effects, BUT have the highest (and noticeably highest at that) mobility in the game (or the only class not to be slowed in combat) with zero weapon abilities that are detrimental to that mobility (like self root on PW) , then it’s current state
Speed boosts do not stack, from traits or skills, it certainly doesn’t stack with swiftness, It will always take the higher value. If they could stack, thieves would be able to move >50% faster with swiftness + signet of shadow. Which I assure you they don’t.
Incorrect again. They DO stack on an ele. Whilst the traits+signet might not stack with swiftness, the traits+signet ALL stack. Make an ele and test it out yourself.
It’s really not that big of an issue tho, with proper managing, thieves can still get anywhere faster and the disadvantage is minor.
As I said in another topic, the advantage of initiative is not to pull off ten different skills , (more skills doen’t mean your playing better) but to use what you need and to do whatever you want. If all I want is damage, I can use my most damaging skill, I don’t give a baby cat about anything else. If I need mobility, I going to move, and not let anything stop me, yes initiative will limit me, but any half decent thief can overcome that.
And I have tested elementalist move speed buffs thank you very much, and I promise you they do not stack.
How can an ele move faster? The highest move speed Increase I see is 33% for swiftness, everything else doesn’t stack. A shortbow thief still moves around faster than any swiftness toon. Yes heartseeker may be faster, but IA is no sloth.
I don’t agree with the whole range = mobility much. A 900 range thief can do just fine getting in and out just fine of combat when he needs to, 1200 is not needed imo
You may not agree with it, but it is actually true. In a general sense it is even mentioned in the Art of War. Just because you or any thief can do fine getting in and out of combat when needed, does not mean other classes cannot do the same. As A-net advertised before release, we were supposed to be the staple mobility class. Stealth is just a fluff mechanic, this is unarguable. Other games = Perma, GW2= sub 10 seconds, and 90% of the time sub 4 seconds.
Sure, if a class that can grant itself swiftness easily does NOT use any weapon abilities that cause movement, a Thief with the signet and spamming IA/Heartseeker will move faster, and to move faster (ie: beat the other class) they have to dump the same resource they will need if they ever want to do enter combat. If the other class has movement abilities , not counting the ones granting them the swiftness, (ex: Warrior GS) which have a low cooldown, and uses them, you will see them and the thief neck and neck, and the thief will not be able to jump right into combat with a rotation but the other class (ex: warrior) will as they only have been using 1-3/10 weapon cooldown abilities in their arsenal. Sacrificing the most for equal mobility =/= superior mobility
An ele with a few points into air and only using 1 weapon cooldown will beat a thief dumping all his initiative for movement speed.
Honestly Id personally rather the thief have it’s damage spread out, causing more conditions and effects, BUT have the highest (and noticeably highest at that) mobility in the game (or the only class not to be slowed in combat) with zero weapon abilities that are detrimental to that mobility (like self root on PW) , then it’s current state
Speed boosts do not stack, from traits or skills, it certainly doesn’t stack with swiftness, It will always take the higher value. If they could stack, thieves would be able to move >50% faster with swiftness + signet of shadow. Which I assure you they don’t.
Incorrect again. They DO stack on an ele. Whilst the traits+signet might not stack with swiftness, the traits+signet ALL stack. Make an ele and test it out yourself.
A. It’s really not that big of an issue tho, with proper managing, thieves can still get anywhere faster and the disadvantage is minor.
As I said in another topic, the advantage of initiative is not to pull off ten different skills , (more skills doen’t mean your playing better) but to use what you need and to do whatever you want. If all I want is damage, I can use my most damaging skill, I don’t give a baby cat about anything else. If I need mobility, I going to move, and not let anything stop me, yes initiative will limit me, but any half decent thief can overcome that.
B. And I have tested elementalist move speed buffs thank you very much, and I promise you they do not stack.
A. the difference is noticeable and having to do more work for equal or less mobility does not make us the staple mobility class that A-net said we were designed around.
B. They do stack, so clearly you did not test it.
My speed is dramatically decreased when in combat with Signet of Shadows, feels like I’m not even using Signet of Shadows. Would be good if someone could do a proper test/video and post back the results.
If I remember correctly, when I used my 2 seconds of swiftness on dodge build, in combat it seemed to nullify the 33% increase in speed completely.
it doesn’t nullify it. It is just that 33% of like half your ooc speed is a much smaller number
How can an ele move faster? The highest move speed Increase I see is 33% for swiftness, everything else doesn’t stack. A shortbow thief still moves around faster than any swiftness toon. Yes heartseeker may be faster, but IA is no sloth.
I don’t agree with the whole range = mobility much. A 900 range thief can do just fine getting in and out just fine of combat when he needs to, 1200 is not needed imo
You may not agree with it, but it is actually true. In a general sense it is even mentioned in the Art of War. Just because you or any thief can do fine getting in and out of combat when needed, does not mean other classes cannot do the same. As A-net advertised before release, we were supposed to be the staple mobility class. Stealth is just a fluff mechanic, this is unarguable. Other games = Perma, GW2= sub 10 seconds, and 90% of the time sub 4 seconds.
Sure, if a class that can grant itself swiftness easily does NOT use any weapon abilities that cause movement, a Thief with the signet and spamming IA/Heartseeker will move faster, and to move faster (ie: beat the other class) they have to dump the same resource they will need if they ever want to do enter combat. If the other class has movement abilities , not counting the ones granting them the swiftness, (ex: Warrior GS) which have a low cooldown, and uses them, you will see them and the thief neck and neck, and the thief will not be able to jump right into combat with a rotation but the other class (ex: warrior) will as they only have been using 1-3/10 weapon cooldown abilities in their arsenal. Sacrificing the most for equal mobility =/= superior mobility
An ele with a few points into air and only using 1 weapon cooldown will beat a thief dumping all his initiative for movement speed.
Honestly Id personally rather the thief have it’s damage spread out, causing more conditions and effects, BUT have the highest (and noticeably highest at that) mobility in the game (or the only class not to be slowed in combat) with zero weapon abilities that are detrimental to that mobility (like self root on PW) , then it’s current state
Speed boosts do not stack, from traits or skills, it certainly doesn’t stack with swiftness, It will always take the higher value. If they could stack, thieves would be able to move >50% faster with swiftness + signet of shadow. Which I assure you they don’t.
Incorrect again. They DO stack on an ele. Whilst the traits+signet might not stack with swiftness, the traits+signet ALL stack. Make an ele and test it out yourself.
A. It’s really not that big of an issue tho, with proper managing, thieves can still get anywhere faster and the disadvantage is minor.
As I said in another topic, the advantage of initiative is not to pull off ten different skills , (more skills doen’t mean your playing better) but to use what you need and to do whatever you want. If all I want is damage, I can use my most damaging skill, I don’t give a baby cat about anything else. If I need mobility, I going to move, and not let anything stop me, yes initiative will limit me, but any half decent thief can overcome that.
B. And I have tested elementalist move speed buffs thank you very much, and I promise you they do not stack.
A. the difference is noticeable and having to do more work for equal or less mobility does not make us the staple mobility class that A-net said we were designed around.
B. They do stack, so clearly you did not test it.
It a matter of opinion then, I believe initiative feels right, the advantages I get from it out weigh the disadvantage imo, and I do not I’m doing more work, and different work.
And I have no idea how this misconception about move speed came to be, and I hate being called a liar, I have tested this since the first bw1, and it the results now. They do not stack, I’m not the only one that tested, it’s be documented and proven, believe what you want, your not right.