(edited by Zacchary.6183)
My negative opinion about (most) stealth
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
(edited by Zero Day.2594)
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Thiefs aren’t that strong and are pretty easy to deal with you just need to use you brain instead of button mashing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPbG1TCNxVY
Not so dusty!
Yes, this is a warrior, who I called good and dont play, how the many, many ranger pets in heavy armor, which called himself warrior.
Caleb Ferendir
-Charr Thief-
It’s good to be bad!
-Charr Thief-
It’s good to be bad!
Because people who aren’t complete simpletons find mind numbingly easy things boring as hell?
So, let me get this straight. You play a “harder” class, get rolled by an “easier” class, and come to QQ about said “easier” class… Well maybe the hard class is a bit too hard for you… why not play the easier class till you get better?
Or, okay, that’s your choice not to play the “easy” class. You picked it, now you’re kittening that there are “easier” classes? Cute.
Maybe some people actually play to have fun,
:D I am having fun on both thief and warrior (and guard for awhile), thanks. Are you? You seem a bit agitated… angry at something.
pull off insane skillshots,
Last time I checked, there’s no real “reward” for doing that. If I can kill you simply by pressing 1, while you do all your insane stuff… why wouldn’t I do that? In PvP one either dies or doesn’t and kills the other, by what means is completely irrelevant.
learn their class inside and out,
I think this is a requirement to abuse the class to the fullest extent…
have ACTUAL competition decided by skill
Really? There are in this game? I haven’t seen them. Can you tell me which game modes award specifically for skill.
instead of poorly designed gimmicks put in to make morons feel capable in pvp and don’t play just to find the path of least resistance,
Well… I think those morons figured out something more than it appears. They figured that hey in pvp there’s that one guy that loses and there’s the other guy that wins. There’s one guy that kills and theres another guy that gets killed. So, they used the easiest method to kill and not be killed.
and then feel like a “winner”.
Well I’m sure they do… they killed their opponent, seems like they are the winners o.O or am I missing something again?
Why do you even play?
For fun and to win, I take fun/pleasure in winning. If I lose that means I did something wrong (possibly not playing said OP class). To kill time… I guess it’s a hobby… I don’t know… o.O that’s really deep question man…
They could just put a rock in heart of the mists that you slam your face into and get a “YOU WIN!” message and that would be about the depth you’re looking for in a game.
:D Now you’re just over exaggerating things, most likely because you’re still mad.
:D But then we wont get people like you on the forums
… which is another pleasant thing after “winning”.
The other thing is… the term “winning” might have different means to different people… it seems to you it’s about skill and stuff…
maybe to other it’s just beating the opponent in the game (which means they are beating/winning against someone in the game…).
One seems like a personal vendetta, while the other seems more blunt and simple (though keep in mind winning in a game might take skill).
It almost sounds like, in chess, you would call someone OP because they use pieces other then the pawn to beat their opponent, because you deem using just pawns to beat your opponent is more skillful (since they don’t have much movement compared to other pieces). I mean, cool if someone beats someone with just pawns, that’s yeah impressive, they win… but if someone beats another using more then just pawns, well they still win. Possibly the person that they beat might have lost because they were using just pawns, and then they end up looking silly because they limited themselves.
(Tangent with the chess example and this is more of a tangent on the tangent, but… Go>Chess! :| I don’t like chess, have nothing against it. I prefer Go, and think it has much more depth than chess. Personal opinion, if you don’t agree, let’s duke it out…)
WoW had it right,
Then go play WoW, no one is forcing you to play gw2.
Subscription too stronk, can’t play!
(That is, at least for me, one of the “minuses” to WoW. )
Someone quote me, because this post will be infracted soon.
(edited by Zero Day.2594)
I haven’t commented on stealth threads in a while, but I sort of feel compelled to reply to Zero Day’s above post. No, I refuse to quote the thing it’s too darn long
If you are only playing to win, you have no reason to care about balance. At all. There’s nothing wrong with this, of course, and though I can’t entirely understand what pleasure you get from it I don’t think there is anything wrong with playing solely to win.
But really, there is no logical reason to care about balance when you will simply switch to whatever build is best anyway, because the game gives you whatever you want just for playing it however you want. It’s not like WoW where the top gear takes several years to get for people that sleep, because even I with my job and my college classes can manage to have some ascended gear (and I would have more if I didn’t spend even more time not playing video games).
So really, why do you care if (x) gets a nerf?
You won’t stop winning, you’ll just switch builds to whatever happens to be better and keep winning regardless unless someday the game actually becomes entirely balanced and there isn’t anything that really gives a concrete advantage anymore (it’s a pipe dream, I know, but it’s also the only situation where you would actually not just pick the next most powerful thing after a nerf).
I just see no reason for someone who cares solely about winning to worry about balance except to take advantage of a lack of it.
I haven’t commented on stealth threads in a while, but I sort of feel compelled to reply to Zero Day’s above post. No, I refuse to quote the thing it’s too darn long
If you are only playing to win, you have no reason to care about balance. At all. There’s nothing wrong with this, of course, and though I can’t entirely understand what pleasure you get from it I don’t think there is anything wrong with playing solely to win.
But really, there is no logical reason to care about balance when you will simply switch to whatever build is best anyway, because the game gives you whatever you want just for playing it however you want. It’s not like WoW where the top gear takes several years to get for people that sleep, because even I with my job and my college classes can manage to have some ascended gear (and I would have more if I didn’t spend even more time not playing video games).
So really, why do you care if (x) gets a nerf?
You won’t stop winning, you’ll just switch builds to whatever happens to be better and keep winning regardless unless someday the game actually becomes entirely balanced and there isn’t anything that really gives a concrete advantage anymore (it’s a pipe dream, I know, but it’s also the only situation where you would actually not just pick the next most powerful thing after a nerf).I just see no reason for someone who cares solely about winning to worry about balance except to take advantage of a lack of it.
:D
With each “balance” patch notes… that part of me that cares about “balance” dies….
I haven’t commented on stealth threads in a while, but I sort of feel compelled to reply to Zero Day’s above post. No, I refuse to quote the thing it’s too darn long
If you are only playing to win, you have no reason to care about balance. At all. There’s nothing wrong with this, of course, and though I can’t entirely understand what pleasure you get from it I don’t think there is anything wrong with playing solely to win.
But really, there is no logical reason to care about balance when you will simply switch to whatever build is best anyway, because the game gives you whatever you want just for playing it however you want. It’s not like WoW where the top gear takes several years to get for people that sleep, because even I with my job and my college classes can manage to have some ascended gear (and I would have more if I didn’t spend even more time not playing video games).
So really, why do you care if (x) gets a nerf?
You won’t stop winning, you’ll just switch builds to whatever happens to be better and keep winning regardless unless someday the game actually becomes entirely balanced and there isn’t anything that really gives a concrete advantage anymore (it’s a pipe dream, I know, but it’s also the only situation where you would actually not just pick the next most powerful thing after a nerf).I just see no reason for someone who cares solely about winning to worry about balance except to take advantage of a lack of it.
He probably cares about fun too though. Thief and (shatter) mesmer are the most fun to me, and I’d have to say that both are in a pretty decent spot right now. If he’s talking about the sirlin article though playing to win is still relevant as it talks about using strategies people don’t know how to counter until they figure out how to counter it. Until they figure out how to counter it, it’s something you can rely on to finish the fight pretty quickly so you can move on to the next fight or turn the tide for your group fight.
The thing about thief is there is a (relatively) low skill floor and a super high skill ceiling, and it’s largely dependent on your opponent’s skill up to a point. Once your opponent knows how thieves operate and what moves to block/dodge/blind, the fight tilts much more towards the opponents favor. All the suggested changes that people make, while they might out noob vs. noob or even moderate vs. moderate, they tilt the tables way in favor of the thief’s opponent once you get to good vs. good. The thing is, until people roll a thief and realize how often they get stomped by decent/good players, all they ever see is the losing side on their main. I’d say thief is right in the middle right now in terms of power, which is why they are adding more in stealth skills and now on revealed skills while only nerfing poison field pulses (for the sake of uniformity with engis).
Here’s the sirlin article again for a quick read. It’s pretty interesting.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html
Edit: For those who refuse to click on a link, The part that I find the most relevant in the article:
“Let’s consider two groups of players: a group of good players and a group of scrubs. The scrubs will play “for fun” and not explore the extremities of the game. They won’t find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly. The good players will. The good players will find incredibly overpowering tactics and patterns. As they play the game more, they’ll be forced to find counters to those tactics. The vast majority of tactics that at first appear unbeatable end up having counters, though they are often quite subtle and difficult to discover. Knowing the counter tactic prevents the other player from using his tactic, but he can then use a counter to your counter. You are now afraid to use your counter and the opponent can go back to sneaking in the original overpowering tactic. This concept will be covered in much more detail later.
The good players are reaching higher and higher levels of play. They found the “cheap stuff” and abused it. They know how to stop the cheap stuff. They know how to stop the other guy from stopping it so they can keep doing it. And as is quite common in competitive games, many new tactics will later be discovered that make the original cheap tactic look wholesome and fair. Often in fighting games, one character will have something so good it’s unfair. Fine, let him have that. As time goes on, it will be discovered that other characters have even more powerful and unfair tactics. Each player will attempt to steer the game in the direction of his own advantages, much how grandmaster chess players attempt to steer opponents into situations in which their opponents are weak."
(edited by Maugetarr.6823)
(edited by Zero Day.2594)
He probably cares about fun too though. Thief and (shatter) mesmer are the most fun to me, and I’d have to say that both are in a pretty decent spot right now. If he’s talking about the sirlin article though playing to win is still relevant as it talks about using strategies people don’t know how to counter until they figure out how to counter it. Until they figure out how to counter it, it’s something you can rely on to finish the fight pretty quickly so you can move on to the next fight or turn the tide for your group fight.
Heh thanks. Couldn’t come up with a better response last night. Although, every balance patch, is a bit disappointing… and it does make me slowly stop caring… I doubt they will ever balance it out such that a good majority is happy, and all classes can fulfill all/most roles.
Weirdly, after reading that article, maybe I was too influenced by it… But I actually started to see people (here and on other games) that would give themselves limits that would prevent them from overcoming something they deem OP.
:D Oh P Fun, I do have fun, and because it’s a term with so many meanings, I doubt we’re having the same fun.
Oh that’s perfectly fine! That’s part of what my point was, in that while I don’t have the same type of fun as you, I don’t particularly think that having fun just from winning is wrong at all.
But for me, I don’t get a sense of satisfaction purely from winning. In order for me to really have fun, there has to be the sense of a challenge, that could go either way. I really dislike knowing the probable outcome of a fight before it happens (though I do get some catharsis from stomping idiots). I don’t have fun playing my guardian in PvE because I literally can just walk up to multiple mobs and auto them to death without so much as dodging. Conversely, I have tons of fun in PvP as an ele, because if I screw up I lose, and I can pull of some awesome plays that let me win without flat out destroying the other guy.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with playing solely to win, I just don’t think it has very much bearing on balance in general.
Let me get this straight here. I am not calling anything overpowered, I am not saying using something overpowered is wrong, and I am certainly not saying anything is uncounterable. What I am saying is that, if you only care about winning, you will have roughly the same amount of fun no matter how balance is skewed, so why care about balance?
Edit: Thread successfully derailed
Sorry OP