Guild Wars 2

Before I start, I’m going to admit that I’m a newbie thief, although not a newbie player since I’ve been here since launch. I main a Guardian most of the time. My thief is just now approaching level 70. Most of what I’ve seen from the thief is PvE, EotM, and PvP related.

Now, what I was thinking when creating my thief was that it was going to be a stealthy attacker with super hard hitting sneak attacks. Go full out DPS. Backstab is going to knock a good chunk out of that bar of health. At first in the very low levels, you sort of see this. Not a shocking punch, but a decent dent, so it’s going to be a bigger hitter when you get higher, right? As I steadily increased my levels, the damage from Backstab actually went the other way. Less damage.

I typically open up with CnD and Backstab. I’ve noticed in the level 60s, that doesn’t really reduce the enemy health bar that much anymore. For something that is supposed to be such a big hitter, this is rather disappointing. Now instead of looking at stealth as both offense and defense, it seems that its mostly just defense. Perhaps I’m wrong here, and that it will make a difference later once I hit 80, but if the damage curve I’m seeing is trending down as I get higher it doesn’t seem likely.

I know from all the cryers in the past that this was caused from a nerf outcry, which I always thought was ridiculous. That’s the thief’s job. Sneak in, take out the target with a hard hitter attack. If you can’t get away, you fail with a dirt nap. That’s the way it should be.

Anyways, to get to the point. I’d suggest changing Backstab a bit, and perhaps some of the other stealth attacks, so that the previous nerfing isn’t completely reversed. I can see the reasoning behind the nerfs. A spammable super attack isn’t quite right, but neither is the current state of Backstab. The attack seems laughable.

So, what I’d like to see explored is buffing Backstab back up again, and the other weapon stealth attacks, to make it an attack to be feared, BUT, and this is key, have a cooldown on it. No longer can you spam the Backstab every 4 or 5 seconds. when it does land, it takes that chunk of health bar again. This of course would require changing all of the stealth attacks a bit (my focus is Backstab), but I think it could be done and balanced so that both those that enjoy using stealth attacks and those that cry against them would be happy.

Sorry for the wall of text.
TLDR: Buff the stealth attacks but put a cooldown on them for balancing.

haha wut

You aren’t max levelled, probably don’t have all the traits set up properly due to this, don’t have the gear…you are talking about PvE anyway where enemies are just HP punch bags.
Almost all PvE enemies, including veterans, go down super quick to backstabs/heartseekers and autos. There is nothing more needed in that department. The idea of increasing backstabs power in WvW or PvP is just hilarious, and I say that as a thief player.

My take on backstab : It is a very strong move that does anywhere from 3.5K/7+K damage on tanks/full glass enemies, supposing crit, and supposing an “average” investment in power/precision/ferocity for your “average” wvw roamer. It is now in a nice spot where you cannot just spam your way into stealth now and get an easy insta-down on glassier or uplevelled players. Instead, and particularly in this current wvw meta, you must usually land a couple of backstabs to take down a even a semi-glass type player on top of all the other concurrent dps.
This to me is important because it means that the thief must use at least a modicum of intelligence in a fight to win, and it also means that a cheap-free backstab on an enemy you caught completely unwittingly will not necessarily win you the fight either.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

As I steadily increased my levels, the damage from Backstab actually went the other way. Less damage.

I typically open up with CnD and Backstab. I’ve noticed in the level 60s, that doesn’t really reduce the enemy health bar that much anymore.

Your conclusion on your observation is incorrect.

If you really want to see the difference in damage, don’t compare a low level mob to a high level mob. Instead, grab a plain dagger (the one without stats) then backstab a level 60 mob. Then switch the dagger to a Berserker dagger with gem then backstab the same level 60 mob. Compare your damage output.

The health bar of low level mob goes out fast because they have a low max health while the high level mob have a high max health, so relative to the max health, a 1000 dmg will take out a low level mob, while it will bare scratch a high level.

Backstab hits like a truck if you get the set up for it but a decent player will utilized that window of “Revealed” and often punish the thief intensely for showing their face.

The cooldown to BS is how long you are revealed + the time it takes to re-enter stealth. Unless you’re running d/p “t-word” “perma stealth” its not simple. Often you end up resorting to the environment for safety and/or a CnD target.

Also pve is a terrible place to use for balance, I mean in fotm 40+ my Pw can hit for ~12k each time and I’m not even full zerker. Also there are videos of something like 40k whirling wrath or 40k 100b. Idk if those numbers are still possible as I don’t run dungeons much anymore but I wouldn’t call them op since those numbers are not achievable in any pvp environment.

All in all, stealth attacks are fine without a cooldown. The only issue with stealth attacks is that blocking them isn’t as rewarding as it should be but there have been a number of posts with some pretty good ideas on fixing that without causing reveal.

Agree with the above post. First. Get to 80 and get some gear. With the correct traita and crit dmg… It does hit forvery hard.. Even if you are 79… once 80. Its night and day. Probably same goes with all other class. Good luck.

Thanks for the replies. However, I think there’s some key details being ingored. I don’t just play PvE with the thief. I am doing PvP as well as EoTM, which is just a truncated version of WvW. Please don’t focus on my post to PvE only. Look at both PvE AND PvP/WvW.

Now, let me address a few things I saw in the some of the replies:

3.5k – 7.5k damage is not a big deal in my eyes. Other classes can consistently dish out 3k damage from auto attacks alone when using the same DPS gear as a thief. For a skill that requires stealth and has a 4-5 second “cooldown”, 3.5k is not a big deal. And then on top of that you have to be aligned correctly for it to do its proper damage. Players with half a brain can easily circumvent your maneuvers and your backstab becomes a face stab, or worse. Also, let’s face it, 7.5k damage is not a norm either, at least based on my limited time with the thief.

Also, please keep in mind that I’m not a new player to the game. Just newish to being a thief.

Ok. So… just trying to understand. Your point is you want them to increase the dmg of backstab in general? Like I have said. IMO. Its fairly strong as is… and yes. Auto attack can get 3k easy with crit. So I do understnad that you can miss backstab… if you dont crit. It wont really show big number anyway.

Talking wvw. 7.5k is pretty good number. I hit 9k often and thats more than half HP for most classes. Thats strong single target to me.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Players with half a brain can easily circumvent your maneuvers and your backstab becomes a face stab, or worse.

lol.

This makes me laugh because Thieves don’t walk around the target to get the backstab, the target exposes their back for the Thief every time. Players like you who “maneuvers” when a Thief goes in stealth thinking that we’re going behind you exposes your back every time which make you the perfect target for backstabs. All the Thief to do is stealth, then wait for target to “maneuver” thinking they’re so clever by turning around, then backstab. lawl.

TrOtskY.5927:

My take on backstab : It is a very strong move that does anywhere from 3.5K/7+K damage on tanks/full glass enemies, supposing crit, and supposing an “average” investment in power/precision/ferocity for your “average” wvw roame

Yeah…wow. My backstabs on thief do around 7K, (or 3 k on guards with protection up). They require perfect positioning and full power/ferocity investments and leave me with 14-15K health and have a realistic cooldown of 5-6 seconds. On the other hand, “Mighty Blow” on guardian hammer, a control weapon, does 3,5-7K damage on a 4 sec cooldown, and allows me to keep 2.7K armor and nearly 20K health. Backstab is severely underpowered when you compare it to the damage output of other classes on zerker.

Yeah dude, you gotta get to 80 and grab full berserkers or something, and then we’ll talk. Even in Spvp I’ve gotten hit with 8k+ back stabs. Thieves’ jobs still get done, they just require a little more skill to execute.

Full investment backstabs will hit for upwards of 12k on most targets, including medium armor classes. When playing the build with the classic all in mug combo, I have never failed to down any light/medium armor class that didn’t see me coming. The damage is there, no question. Of course, full investment is also rendered useless for 45 seconds by literally any reaction, so nobody ever uses it.

The 3.5-7k setup people are talking about can be easily achieved with room for the holy grail: six in shadow arts. In other words, in the hands of somebody that can play it, that damage cannot be seen coming or going. Neither you nor your 20 buddies will ever kill a good thief playing a build like that. You might drive him away from objectives or make it impossible for him to kill you either, but it’s the safest thing on the market bar none.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Players with half a brain can easily circumvent your maneuvers and your backstab becomes a face stab, or worse.

lol.

This makes me laugh because Thieves don’t walk around the target to get the backstab, the target exposes their back for the Thief every time. Players like you who “maneuvers” when a Thief goes in stealth thinking that we’re going behind you exposes your back every time which make you the perfect target for backstabs. All the Thief to do is stealth, then wait for target to “maneuver” thinking they’re so clever by turning around, then backstab. lawl.

Thank you. Appreciate you sarcasm. Very productive. Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you sit in place when you stealth? Even when those AoE skills start up right where you disappeared?

MarauderShields.6830:

TrOtskY.5927:

My take on backstab : It is a very strong move that does anywhere from 3.5K/7+K damage on tanks/full glass enemies, supposing crit, and supposing an “average” investment in power/precision/ferocity for your “average” wvw roame

Yeah…wow. My backstabs on thief do around 7K, (or 3 k on guards with protection up). They require perfect positioning and full power/ferocity investments and leave me with 14-15K health and have a realistic cooldown of 5-6 seconds. On the other hand, “Mighty Blow” on guardian hammer, a control weapon, does 3,5-7K damage on a 4 sec cooldown, and allows me to keep 2.7K armor and nearly 20K health. Backstab is severely underpowered when you compare it to the damage output of other classes on zerker.

This is exactly what I’m talking about.

Eroza.4769:

Ok. So… just trying to understand. Your point is you want them to increase the dmg of backstab in general? Like I have said. IMO. Its fairly strong as is… and yes. Auto attack can get 3k easy with crit. So I do understnad that you can miss backstab… if you dont crit. It wont really show big number anyway.

Talking wvw. 7.5k is pretty good number. I hit 9k often and thats more than half HP for most classes. Thats strong single target to me.

Well yes and no. However, that’s not the full extent to my point. Adding a higher damage increase yes, but adding a longer cooldown to balance it. In effect, it would require a higher player skill because of the longer cooldown.

At any rate, it was just an idea I had to make the stealth attacks a little more meaningful than what it stands today.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Players with half a brain can easily circumvent your maneuvers and your backstab becomes a face stab, or worse.

lol.

This makes me laugh because Thieves don’t walk around the target to get the backstab, the target exposes their back for the Thief every time. Players like you who “maneuvers” when a Thief goes in stealth thinking that we’re going behind you exposes your back every time which make you the perfect target for backstabs. All the Thief to do is stealth, then wait for target to “maneuver” thinking they’re so clever by turning around, then backstab. lawl.

Thank you. Appreciate you sarcasm. Very productive. Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you sit in place when you stealth? Even when those AoE skills start up right where you disappeared?

First “maneuver”, now “AoE”, what’s next? Anti-stealth traps?

And if you really believe that you can auto-attack and deal more damage with other profession than backstabbing with the Thief, then please, play the other professions.

We don’t really need you making a buff suggestion to backstab when you fail at playing a Thief.

Linnael.1069:

Full investment backstabs will hit for upwards of 12k on most targets, including medium armor classes. When playing the build with the classic all in mug combo, I have never failed to down any light/medium armor class that didn’t see me coming. The damage is there, no question. Of course, full investment is also rendered useless for 45 seconds by literally any reaction, so nobody ever uses it.

The 3.5-7k setup people are talking about can be easily achieved with room for the holy grail: six in shadow arts. In other words, in the hands of somebody that can play it, that damage cannot be seen coming or going. Neither you nor your 20 buddies will ever kill a good thief playing a build like that. You might drive him away from objectives or make it impossible for him to kill you either, but it’s the safest thing on the market bar none.

Some interesting info. I suppose the first paragraph is about the 5/6/x/x/x type build with full on zerker and the second is x/6/6/x/x with Valk mix?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Players with half a brain can easily circumvent your maneuvers and your backstab becomes a face stab, or worse.

lol.

This makes me laugh because Thieves don’t walk around the target to get the backstab, the target exposes their back for the Thief every time. Players like you who “maneuvers” when a Thief goes in stealth thinking that we’re going behind you exposes your back every time which make you the perfect target for backstabs. All the Thief to do is stealth, then wait for target to “maneuver” thinking they’re so clever by turning around, then backstab. lawl.

Thank you. Appreciate you sarcasm. Very productive. Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you sit in place when you stealth? Even when those AoE skills start up right where you disappeared?

First “maneuver”, now “AoE”, what’s next? Anti-stealth traps?

And if you really believe that you can auto-attack and deal more damage with other profession than backstabbing with the Thief, then please, play the other professions.

We don’t really need you making a buff suggestion to backstab when you fail at playing a Thief.

Hmmm. I don’t recall stating that auto-attacks deal “more” damage than backstabbing.

And thanks, appreciate the continued bagering. That’s real helpful. If you don’t like the suggestion, then just simply say no thanks. Is the insultive tone necessary?

Ok understand. I like the balance idea.. if damage increase. Right now.. I think cooldown on stealth is around 4 seconds. Ish…

Keep leveling. Hit max lvl and get your exotic gear. Come back afterwards and tell us what happened

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Hmmm. I don’t recall stating that auto-attacks deal “more” damage than backstabbing.

I guess this is just my imagination.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Other classes can consistently dish out 3k damage from auto attacks alone when using the same DPS gear as a thief. For a skill that requires stealth and has a 4-5 second “cooldown”, 3.5k is not a big deal.

My bad.

And thanks, appreciate the continued bagering. That’s real helpful. If you don’t like the suggestion, then just simply say no thanks. Is the insultive tone necessary?

You what’s insulting? This…

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Players with half a brain can easily circumvent your maneuvers and your backstab becomes a face stab, or worse. Also, let’s face it, 7.5k damage is not a norm either, at least based on my limited time with the thief.

You admit to have a limited time using a Thief and you’re making a suggestion that can significantly break the profession?

You are out of your mind.

Backstab doesn’t really need a buff. Playing d/x teef isn’t just about landing backstabs. Dagger auto chain and heartseeker also do pretty good damage, and, coupled with a stronger backstab, would be a bit too OP.

You can’t just compare the damage of a teef to the damage of another class without taking both classes into account holistically. Stealth, evades, and shadow steps often make backstabbing a much lower risk maneuver than landing a mighty blow or a 100b. The damage is about right for the risk/reward, when compared to the damage from other classes.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You admit to have a limited time using a Thief and you’re making a suggestion that can significantly break the profession?

You are out of your mind.

Once again, thx for the insult. Didn’t know you cared so much about me. Very flattering.

Anyways, I made the topic to discuss backstab and the other stealth attacks. I’m certainly not in power to make any changes to this game. I’m not a dev. But ideas can certainly be discussed with some vague meaningful dialogue, but I guess not. Instead, we must regress to a level of less maturity. Welcome to the internet, right?

Regardless, I will digress the OP. After spending some time in WvW I realize a further CD of stealth attacks would certainly mess things up a bit. However, I still feel that the benefits of stealth attacks, backstab in particular, should be brought back to a degree of the former glory they once had. The risk to pulling off a backstab on a target that has a certain amount of survivability doesn’t seem worth the reward. And in WvW, survivability is quite popular.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Players with half a brain can easily circumvent your maneuvers and your backstab becomes a face stab, or worse.

lol.

This makes me laugh because Thieves don’t walk around the target to get the backstab, the target exposes their back for the Thief every time. Players like you who “maneuvers” when a Thief goes in stealth thinking that we’re going behind you exposes your back every time which make you the perfect target for backstabs. All the Thief to do is stealth, then wait for target to “maneuver” thinking they’re so clever by turning around, then backstab. lawl.

This pretty much, most smart thieves just wait for you to open yourself up for the backstab.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You admit to have a limited time using a Thief and you’re making a suggestion that can significantly break the profession?

You are out of your mind.

Once again, thx for the insult. Didn’t know you cared so much about me. Very flattering.

Anyways, I made the topic to discuss backstab and the other stealth attacks. I’m certainly not in power to make any changes to this game. I’m not a dev. But ideas can certainly be discussed with some vague meaningful dialogue, but I guess not. Instead, we must regress to a level of less maturity. Welcome to the internet, right?

No mature individual will entertain ideas from inexperience, nonsensical, and immature person. That’s like letting a 4-year old gets her way all the time.

The problem here is your premise, it’s insulting.

- Get more experience.
- Fight every professions in every build you can.
- Run every dungeons, fractals, and world boss you can.

Then formulate your ideas based on your experience. Only then you’ll have a solid premise that more than likely many Thieves will agreed on since they too have experienced the same thing. You see, you have not established that connection.

Regardless, I will digress the OP. After spending some time in WvW I realize a further CD of stealth attacks would certainly mess things up a bit. However, I still feel that the benefits of stealth attacks, backstab in particular, should be brought back to a degree of the former glory they once had. The risk to pulling off a backstab on a target that has a certain amount of survivability doesn’t seem worth the reward. And in WvW, survivability is quite popular.

The risk of pulling off a back stab on a target that has certain amount of survivability is minimal, thus your reward is minimal.

Why?

Because those targets have sacrificed their damage for survivability.

A high risk target is a glass cannon, thus it gives a high reward. If you failed on taking out a glass cannon, it can easily backfire and ends on your demise.

Again, as the saying goes; “get more blood on those daggers before you talk”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You admit to have a limited time using a Thief and you’re making a suggestion that can significantly break the profession?

You are out of your mind.

Once again, thx for the insult. Didn’t know you cared so much about me. Very flattering.

Anyways, I made the topic to discuss backstab and the other stealth attacks. I’m certainly not in power to make any changes to this game. I’m not a dev. But ideas can certainly be discussed with some vague meaningful dialogue, but I guess not. Instead, we must regress to a level of less maturity. Welcome to the internet, right?

No mature individual will entertain ideas from inexperience, nonsensical, and immature person. That’s like letting a 4-year old gets her way all the time.

The problem here is your premise, it’s insulting.

- Get more experience.
- Fight every professions in every build you can.
- Run every dungeons, fractals, and world boss you can.

Then formulate your ideas based on your experience. Only then you’ll have a solid premise that more than likely many Thieves will agreed on since they too have experienced the same thing. You see, you have not established that connection.

Regardless, I will digress the OP. After spending some time in WvW I realize a further CD of stealth attacks would certainly mess things up a bit. However, I still feel that the benefits of stealth attacks, backstab in particular, should be brought back to a degree of the former glory they once had. The risk to pulling off a backstab on a target that has a certain amount of survivability doesn’t seem worth the reward. And in WvW, survivability is quite popular.

The risk of pulling off a back stab on a target that has certain amount of survivability is minimal, thus your reward is minimal.

Why?

Because those targets have sacrificed their damage for survivability.

A high risk target is a glass cannon, thus it gives a high reward. If you failed on taking out a glass cannon, it can easily backfire and ends on your demise.

Again, as the saying goes; “get more blood on those daggers before you talk”

I’m not trying to be insultive to anyone, and I fail to see my immaturity or where I’m senseless in my discussion. It’s simply an I idea I had after a month or so of playing the thief. I will allow you the inexperience comment, but only as a thief. However, I’m not new to the game. I’ve been here since before official launch. My experience is from a Guardian, admittedly 90% of my /age.

I am including my experience as a Guardian when wondering if Backstab could be more because right now, as a Guardian, I don’t worry when I see a thief go ghost. I’m also not a full tank or glass, just to note. To me, there’s something inherently wrong with that notion. If there’s a zerker D/D thief on me, I should be worried. I think that’s what that particular set up is designed for, single target takeouts. Perhaps I’m wrong in that thinking.

I remember thieves when Backstab did nice damage. I did think single one hit kills was over the top, but I’ve never understood the full nerf they’ve done to it. The damage should have just been adjusted a little, not halved. And I’m speaking as the target of the move, not the wielder. But again, this is just my opinion.

Any buff of backstab would have to take into consideration all of a thief’s abilities. A buff would likely unbalance a class that is in a pretty good spot. There were good reasons for previous nerfs. Thief (and backstab) is extremely powerful in skillful hands. Check this out for example…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Your suggested change is understandable. But it has no chance of being implemented.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I am including my experience as a Guardian when wondering if Backstab could be more because right now, as a Guardian, I don’t worry when I see a thief go ghost. I’m also not a full tank or glass, just to note. To me, there’s something inherently wrong with that notion. If there’s a zerker D/D thief on me, I should be worried. I think that’s what that particular set up is designed for, single target takeouts. Perhaps I’m wrong in that thinking.

Why should a zerker thief be more dangerous than any other zerker build?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I’m not trying to be insultive to anyone, and I fail to see my immaturity or where I’m senseless in my discussion.

It is insulting to suggest about something you know nothing about. It’s like suggesting to German Engineers how to build a car just because you’ve been driving one for as long as you remember.

Players who plays Thieves have built Thieves like German Engineers built cars. You, on the other hand, are just taking it for a test drive and you already want to make changes to the acceleration, to give it more power, but make it incapacitated for a few seconds.

And you mean not to insult? If you don’t like the car, then drive a different car. Don’t play a Thief if you don’t like it…your Guardian might already feel neglected.

It’s simply an I idea I had after a month or so of playing the thief.

Spend more time playing the profession and keep your ideas to yourself until you can justify why you think your idea is good. There’s a big difference between;

“Buff the stealth attacks but put a cooldown on them for balancing”

and

“What do you guys think will happen if the stealth attacks are buff but put into cooldown?”

The former is insulting, the latter is opening a discussion.

I will allow you the inexperience comment, but only as a thief.

Allow me? Wow, gee, I am so humbled to have gain a permission to comment on your inexperience.

However, I’m not new to the game. I’ve been here since before official launch. My experience is from a Guardian, admittedly 90% of my /age.

That doesn’t mean anything. There are Thief players who have more experience and in-depth knowledge than ArenaNet — and they built the game. lol.

I am including my experience as a Guardian when wondering if Backstab could be more because right now, as a Guardian, I don’t worry when I see a thief go ghost. I’m also not a full tank or glass, just to note. To me, there’s something inherently wrong with that notion. If there’s a zerker D/D thief on me, I should be worried. I think that’s what that particular set up is designed for, single target takeouts. Perhaps I’m wrong in that thinking.

This is what I’m saying all along. You need to play Thief more and play against other professions as much as you can. Only then you’ll understand how ridiculous and insulting your suggestion is. You’re vision is too narrow and looking at your godly Guardian thinking that you’re doing the Thief a favor trying to buff backstab. Well you’re not. There are 8 professions to consider not just Guardians.

I remember thieves when Backstab did nice damage. I did think single one hit kills was over the top, but I’ve never understood the full nerf they’ve done to it. The damage should have just been adjusted a little, not halved. And I’m speaking as the target of the move, not the wielder. But again, this is just my opinion.

The problem lies on the changes to crit damage, not on back stab.

Backstab used to be broken. It has a leap and deals crazy damage. Then they nerfed it to uselessness. Then buff it up to the damage we know now and remove the leap just before Release.

So, with that in mind. Which “nice damage” are you talking about?

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Any buff of backstab would have to take into consideration all of a thief’s abilities. A buff would likely unbalance a class that is in a pretty good spot. There were good reasons for previous nerfs. Thief (and backstab) is extremely powerful in skillful hands. Check this out for example…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Your suggested change is understandable. But it has no chance of being implemented.

Wow, that was pretty cool. I’m guessing he was using the x/6/6/x/x build? He seemed to have pretty good healing along with +16k health and still dealing the occasional 8k Backstab from what I saw. I don’t guess you can get those same stats and still have decent damage now unless you Might stack?

Sir Vincent, I’m curious as to why you’re being such an a-word to somebody who’s merely asking a question/making a suggestion towards the possible betterment of a class. Lonewolf Kai is being ten times as mature about this discussion, as you are, and he’s not making any rude statements either. I don’t understand why you have to insult a player who’s new to the class.

- Fight every professions in every build you can.
- Run every dungeons, fractals, and world boss you can.

Do you honestly think these are required to make a suggestion towards a class? The reasonable answer is, of course, “no.” Your idea is that you have to play every single class for your entire life before you can try to think of a way to better a class? You’re ridiculous. As for the actual discussion, I honestly don’t have an opinion one way or the other. I don’t know enough about the class or the nerf early on, to make a suggestion. But I wouldn’t dare ask a question about it, because rude people like you would jump down my throat, insulting me, and just giving a bad impression about the Guild Wars 2 community to anyone who might consider joining. Have you ever seen “Click?” Because I feel like you’re Adam Sandler when he tells his kids their ideas for hotels are stupid. Enjoy your lifetime of betterness and close mindedness. Goodnight.

Mayama.1854:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I am including my experience as a Guardian when wondering if Backstab could be more because right now, as a Guardian, I don’t worry when I see a thief go ghost. I’m also not a full tank or glass, just to note. To me, there’s something inherently wrong with that notion. If there’s a zerker D/D thief on me, I should be worried. I think that’s what that particular set up is designed for, single target takeouts. Perhaps I’m wrong in that thinking.

Why should a zerker thief be more dangerous than any other zerker build?

Because of the risk to playing a zerker thief is rather high. Zerker ele falls into the same field as us really. Instead of stealth and super evasion they get burst heals and shields of sorts (arcane shield, obsidian flesh with focus, shocking aura with dagger, etc).

Thief zerker isn’t weak in damage, but they drop real quick. Usually a few bleeds alone kills them because they have such low health and weak condi clearing.

In relation to the BS change, nty. The damage is fine with the appropriate set up, the only thing that I believe to be at fault for your suspiciously low damage is the ferocity change, which everyone experienced. Who cares if mighty blow has a cd of ~4 seconds for 3-7k damage, the reliability of guardian hammer hits in general is pretty low because of how slow guardian and the hammer attacks are. Guardian needs to trap people to get hits in, thief uses mobility to get hits in.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Wow, that was pretty cool. I’m guessing he was using the x/6/6/x/x build? He seemed to have pretty good healing along with +16k health and still dealing the occasional 8k Backstab from what I saw. I don’t guess you can get those same stats and still have decent damage now unless you Might stack?

Note that this video was taken before the crit. damage “improvements”.

tigernic.4756:

Sir Vincent, I’m curious as to why you’re being such an a-word to somebody who’s merely asking a question/making a suggestion towards the possible betterment of a class.

FYI, it’s not for the “betterment of a class”. The suggestion is based on limited game play and biased perception.

I thought I have specified that already, yet you’re still curious?

Lonewolf Kai is being ten times as mature about this discussion, as you are, and he’s not making any rude statements either. I don’t understand why you have to insult a player who’s new to the class.

We’ve had a lot of players who are new to the class who have posted here that doesn’t make bold suggestions because they are mature enough to know that they have a lot more to learn before making suggestions.

Do you honestly think these are required to make a suggestion towards a class? The reasonable answer is, of course, “no.”

“reasonable answer”? What’s reasonable about that?

If you have not played the profession to max level and have not played it even more after that, the reasonable answer is YES — else you’re just being ridiculous.

Your idea is that you have to play every single class for your entire life before you can try to think of a way to better a class? You’re ridiculous.

You know what’s ridiculous? Blowing it out of proportion. You even cut ans paste what I’ve posted and still made this ridiculous mistake. Let’s review it, shall we?

“- Fight every professions in every build you can.”
“- Run every dungeons, fractals, and world boss you can.”

Look at that, does that makes you look silly?

Even if the OP fight each profession once, do a dungeon once, fractal once, and world boss once — it would be enough to give him a more informative perspective about the Thief profession.

Instead, he played it almost to level 80 and make a silly suggestion. That doesn’t constitute a suggestion for the “betterment” of Thieves.

As for the actual discussion, I honestly don’t have an opinion one way or the other. I don’t know enough about the class or the nerf early on, to make a suggestion.

Look at you. You see, you’re more mature than the OP. lol.

But I wouldn’t dare ask a question about it, because rude people like you would jump down my throat, insulting me, and just giving a bad impression about the Guild Wars 2 community to anyone who might consider joining. Have you ever seen “Click?” Because I feel like you’re Adam Sandler when he tells his kids their ideas for hotels are stupid. Enjoy your lifetime of betterness and close mindedness. Goodnight.

Good night to you too sir/ma’am.

tigernic.4756:

Sir Vincent, I’m curious as to why you’re being such an a-word to somebody who’s merely asking a question/making a suggestion towards the possible betterment of a class. Lonewolf Kai is being ten times as mature about this discussion, as you are, and he’s not making any rude statements either. I don’t understand why you have to insult a player who’s new to the class.

- Fight every professions in every build you can.
- Run every dungeons, fractals, and world boss you can.

Do you honestly think these are required to make a suggestion towards a class? The reasonable answer is, of course, “no.” Your idea is that you have to play every single class for your entire life before you can try to think of a way to better a class? You’re ridiculous. As for the actual discussion, I honestly don’t have an opinion one way or the other. I don’t know enough about the class or the nerf early on, to make a suggestion. But I wouldn’t dare ask a question about it, because rude people like you would jump down my throat, insulting me, and just giving a bad impression about the Guild Wars 2 community to anyone who might consider joining. Have you ever seen “Click?” Because I feel like you’re Adam Sandler when he tells his kids their ideas for hotels are stupid. Enjoy your lifetime of betterness and close mindedness. Goodnight.

I’ve resolved to just ignoring his posts. He seems to be looking to pick an argument when one is not necessarily there. /shrug

NinjaEd.3946:

Because of the risk to playing a zerker thief is rather high. Zerker ele falls into the same field as us really. Instead of stealth and super evasion they get burst heals and shields of sorts (arcane shield, obsidian flesh with focus, shocking aura with dagger, etc).

Thief zerker isn’t weak in damage, but they drop real quick. Usually a few bleeds alone kills them because they have such low health and weak condi clearing.

In relation to the BS change, nty. The damage is fine with the appropriate set up, the only thing that I believe to be at fault for your suspiciously low damage is the ferocity change, which everyone experienced.

Oh yeah, I was dueling with an Ele the other day and I was unable to down her/him. Every time I bursted down to a sliver of life, boom, full bar again. It went on like that for awhile until finally a fly-by havoc team ended up chasing the Ele away.

I definately don’t think my idea for a longer cd on BS is the way to go now. I’ve been playing with a full(ish) zerker, 5/6/x/x/x build and the damage does seem okay. However, I still think it should be bumped up a bit higher than what it is. I’ve just recently switched to a 2/6/6/0/0 build and have noticed a damage drop, naturally. The ferocity change definately hits the spec. The video above was showing a similar spec I think and I’m definately not seeing that damage. That video was before the crit damage change.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I definately don’t think my idea for a longer cd on BS is the way to go now. I’ve been playing with a full(ish) zerker, 5/6/x/x/x build and the damage does seem okay.

You don’t say?

“Pain teaches lessons no scholar can.”
— Kamahl, pit fighter