My thoughts on why thief wont get rifle.

My thoughts on why thief wont get rifle.

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Posted by: Cronicle.5691

Cronicle.5691

So ive been following and reading many of the suggestions and speculations to what Thief might get as a new weapon set for our elite specialization. However, having closer looked at the way Anet approaches the design level of their elite spec choices i feel more convinced that we wont be getting the rifle as a weapon set but either one of the existing weapon sets unlocked for our offhand (sword), or staff.

First of all these are my own speculations alone and of course i could be very much wrong but i thought i would share anyways.

The first reason i will like to bring up is that Anet is trending to looking at themes of what the class already has and enhancing them yet diversifying them.

Thieves, from a class design perspective, are the masters of close combat, tricks, stealth, mobility, and control. If we look at our current weapon sets we are very spread out in that field from Conditions, hybrids, power play. What thieves have which most of is their ability to get close to a target quickly. Therefor eliminating the need for a long range weapon such as rifle and long bow.

Anet nerfed the range of Clusterbomb from 1200 to 900 to put in the level of the rest of its skills. I do not believe that Anet would want to give thieves the power that rangers and warriors have of “long range” sniping as stealth alone is deadly enough to get in close and do some hard hitting. Combine stealth with long range and we might break the game (Or not, again im just speculating).

So what could thieves be getting for their elite spec? Well i like to look back at GW1 references as that is what Anet is currently doing with combining old with new.
The GW2 necromancer elite specialization looks to be a fuse with Dervish (Cold and scythe attacks) and Guardian with Paragon (Spear throwing and control). The mesmer with the once planned but never released Chronomancer class.
So it could be plausible that thief might revisit or fuse more with the Assassin class from gw1.

The assassin class mechanic was about burst and control through dagger spam or hexes. And hexes don’t exist anymore in gw2 but is seemingly coming back in a form of new conditions. What the assassin had a lot of was poison, knockdown and blocks which the thief currently is very weak with. Now, having looked at the new changes to the specialization lines we can already see the changes to Poison getting a major buff. So we could potentially speculate that our elite specialization might have some synergy with our current specializations. Which brings me to my next point, new utility skills. What Utility skills would make most sense for thieves to get? Probably manipulation.
Manipulation might be thieves answer to comeback of control through the old system of hexes. Now i am not going to speculate on what these utility skills will do although i have a lot of suggestions, i would much rather focus on why these set of skills could further influence the idea on which weapon set we will get. And this would be the staff.

looking into the world of Tyria we will see that there are various forms of ether (Magic) and professions that utilize them in multiple forms. Fire, earth, water, air, illusions, domination, death, blood, smite and healing prayers, and lastly Shadows.

Shadow arts was a form of control of ether which let the user manipulate shadows to move around or control. Which would be a great use for a manipulation skill and Staff.

And this would give thieves something new, and something that we need. Casting, range, control, and well fits in to a theme that i my self find most suitable and authentic to the thief as a class.

What are your thoughts on this matter and why? Do you have other ideas and arguments which could lead to why thief might get a different weapon set like scepter, mace, torch or even greatsword? Remember that our current spec lines could/will have synergy with our elite spec and our utility skills will too compliment them.

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Posted by: Shifu.4321

Shifu.4321

I think for the initial elite specs, Anet would try to give everyone a new weapon without repeating, and since ranger already gets staff, I highly doubt thief would get it as well.

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

Torch, mainhand sword, and rifle make the most sense for thieves atm.

Torch less so, but it could happen.

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Posted by: Buell.3701

Buell.3701

I can definitely see Thief getting rifle. Only other weapon I see us getting is OH sword, and I doubt they would give Thief that when ele’s are already getting sword. Seems the trend is every profession is getting something different from the others.

I think the rifle spec is either going to be a “Sniper” or a “Saboteur”. Hard to imagine what they’ll do since Warriors basically already have Kill Shot. Honestly, it’s all up in the air.

Someone posted this on reddit and I thought it was cool. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2zdfwy/thief_specialisation_conceptidea_the_saboteur/

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Posted by: Ephemiel.5694

Ephemiel.5694

The natural “evolution” for Thieves right now would be Assassins. Rifles are the only real choice.

Maybe offhand sword if their design is more Swashbuckler rather than Assassin.

“Would you kindly?”

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Thieves, from a class design perspective, are the masters of close combat, tricks, stealth, mobility, and control. If we look at our current weapon sets we are very spread out in that field from Conditions, hybrids, power play. What thieves have which most of is their ability to get close to a target quickly. Therefor eliminating the need for a long range weapon such as rifle and long bow.

This is a complete nonsense. If you really believe that “design perspective” then it should also apply to both Guardian and Warrior, which are more well armored for close combat. Yet, Warrior get both Rifle and Longbow and Guardian will get Longbow.

The only real change that will eliminate the need for long ranged weapon is if;
1) Steal is 1200 range
2) Shadowstep doesn’t require pathing, meaning I can shadowstep to a LB Ranger up the ledge by making Thief a Physical Projectile.
3) Remove Revealed

With no response to both long range and elevated targets, Thief has nothing other than a worthless stealth that is more punishing than saving just to get closer.

Anet nerfed the range of Clusterbomb from 1200 to 900 to put in the level of the rest of its skills. I do not believe that Anet would want to give thieves the power that rangers and warriors have of “long range” sniping as stealth alone is deadly enough to get in close and do some hard hitting. Combine stealth with long range and we might break the game (Or not, again im just speculating).

If stealth lasts for 10 seconds and it doens’t give Revealed, then I would agree with you.

So it could be plausible that thief might revisit or fuse more with the Assassin class from gw1. (~snip~)Now i am not going to speculate on what these utility skills will do although i have a lot of suggestions, i would much rather focus on why these set of skills could further influence the idea on which weapon set we will get. And this would be the staff.

How did you go from saying a Thief/Assassin fusion to a profession using a staff?

The only logical connection to thif fusion is the use of Greatsword.

Shadow arts was a form of control of ether which let the user manipulate shadows to move around or control. Which would be a great use for a manipulation skill and Staff.

Sounds more a Greatsword fit to me. Or a Rifle, used as a control based weapon causing Daze, Immobilize, Disarm(new skill that disables weapon skills for 2 seconds), etc.

And this would give thieves something new, and something that we need. Casting, range, control, and well fits in to a theme that i my self find most suitable and authentic to the thief as a class.

You’re actually on to something here, but not as a staff Thief but a off-hand Focus Thief.

In some fantasy game, there is an Arcane Thief that uses a focus, mostly an Orb, to steal magic.

If the Thief will have a Focus with skills that can counter any spells or remove (steal) buffs, then I might be even interested on seeing that kind of Elite Spec.

I like where this is going.

What are your thoughts on this matter and why? Do you have other ideas and arguments which could lead to why thief might get a different weapon set like scepter, mace, torch or even greatsword? Remember that our current spec lines could/will have synergy with our elite spec and our utility skills will too compliment them.

You’ve convinced me. Now I want an Arcane Thief that steals magic. go go.

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Posted by: yolo swaggins.2570

yolo swaggins.2570

I can definitely see Thief getting rifle. Only other weapon I see us getting is OH sword, and I doubt they would give Thief that when ele’s are already getting sword. Seems the trend is every profession is getting something different from the others.

I think the rifle spec is either going to be a “Sniper” or a “Saboteur”. Hard to imagine what they’ll do since Warriors basically already have Kill Shot. Honestly, it’s all up in the air.

Someone posted this on reddit and I thought it was cool. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2zdfwy/thief_specialisation_conceptidea_the_saboteur/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Next-Weapon-Set-Rifle/first

Looks like I am not the only person who loves this idea. nwn

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Posted by: Asudementio.8526

Asudementio.8526

Torch, mainhand sword, and rifle make the most sense for thieves atm.

Torch less so, but it could happen.

Thief specialization called Blackjack that uses mace as a immob, cripple combo weapon.

Leader of [Suh]
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Posted by: Ephemiel.5694

Ephemiel.5694

Torch, mainhand sword, and rifle make the most sense for thieves atm.

Torch less so, but it could happen.

Thief specialization called Blackjack that uses mace as a immob, cripple combo weapon.

He also cheats at card games.

“Would you kindly?”

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Posted by: Black Frog.9274

Black Frog.9274

Torch, mainhand sword, and rifle make the most sense for thieves atm.

Torch less so, but it could happen.

Thief specialization called Blackjack that uses mace as a immob, cripple combo weapon.

He also cheats at card games.

Counting cards isn’t cheating!

I Like to Run Randomly Around the Map

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

eles get sword and rangers get staff, just saying~

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Posted by: Tabootrinket.2631

Tabootrinket.2631

The thing is, anet loves to do things differently.
Guardians didn’t get an evolution that would “fit” the current description of this class, since as guardians they are supposed to be on the frontline.

Mesmers use greatswords as laserguns (enough said).
Revenants using hammer from afar.

So thieves getting rifle is highly probable. And having thieves using rifle in an unexpected way is also highly probable.

We tend to associate rifle to long range and low mobility. So I expect thieves to NOT respect that norm.
I think they’ll have even more mobility and who knows, maybe they’ll use it as a melee-ish weapon

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

I can definitely see Thief getting rifle. Only other weapon I see us getting is OH sword, and I doubt they would give Thief that when ele’s are already getting sword. Seems the trend is every profession is getting something different from the others.

I think the rifle spec is either going to be a “Sniper” or a “Saboteur”. Hard to imagine what they’ll do since Warriors basically already have Kill Shot. Honestly, it’s all up in the air.

Someone posted this on reddit and I thought it was cool. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2zdfwy/thief_specialisation_conceptidea_the_saboteur/

Sniper is kinda boring and we already have killshot warrior and pewpew ranger. TBH, neither of these two specs are very interesting.

I am hoping thief to get some magic orientated specialization into it. Scepter + mantra would make a lot of sense to me.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

What the assassin had a lot of was poison, knockdown and blocks which the thief currently is very weak with.

Gotta disagree with you here. Thieves arguably have the most access to poison, arguably more than Rangers since two weapon sets give 100% up time. That and Rangers already have the Poison Master trait.

We don’t have knock downs, but there are plenty of stuns and dazes.

Blocks don’t make sense for a class that already has more active defense than anyone else (due to stealth, blinds, and evades).

I’m not completely sold on rifles for thieves yet, but if it’s not a rifle, then it’ll likely be a sword offhand duelist class or a mace offhand to be a more thug-ish specialization.

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Posted by: Cronicle.5691

Cronicle.5691

What the assassin had a lot of was poison, knockdown and blocks which the thief currently is very weak with.

Gotta disagree with you here. Thieves arguably have the most access to poison, arguably more than Rangers since two weapon sets give 100% up time. That and Rangers already have the Poison Master trait.

We don’t have knock downs, but there are plenty of stuns and dazes.

Blocks don’t make sense for a class that already has more active defense than anyone else (due to stealth, blinds, and evades).

I’m not completely sold on rifles for thieves yet, but if it’s not a rifle, then it’ll likely be a sword offhand duelist class or a mace offhand to be a more thug-ish specialization.

I didnt say we lack poison but that it in its current state is a lack luster condition that is only really useful for reducing heal incom and not so its damage. I know that we have most access to poison both from venom/steal, dagger main hand + shortbow. But if a class has a line which is suppose to enhance poison then it should be more noticeable which is what i believe anet is trying to do now with the new spec in Deadly Arts and change to intensity.

Now when you say plenty of stuns we have just as many stuns as we do knock downs which is 1 every 40 second ( and no, i am not counting scorpion wire because this skill is borked to its core). Now i dont want us to have the ability to keep a player constantly knocked down like warriors currently can but i would love to see a bit more control type utilities which arent traps though manipulation and decoys would be awesome. And i dont agree with stealth being an active defense. It does not mitigate damage but just puts the offender off your tracks for a short duration.

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Posted by: RedSpectrum.1975

RedSpectrum.1975

I can definitely see Thief getting rifle. Only other weapon I see us getting is OH sword, and I doubt they would give Thief that when ele’s are already getting sword. Seems the trend is every profession is getting something different from the others.

I think the rifle spec is either going to be a “Sniper” or a “Saboteur”. Hard to imagine what they’ll do since Warriors basically already have Kill Shot. Honestly, it’s all up in the air.

Someone posted this on reddit and I thought it was cool. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2zdfwy/thief_specialisation_conceptidea_the_saboteur/

The creator of the reddit link definitely didn’t steal (lol thieves steal) that idea from a much earlier rifle thread or anything…

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Posted by: ens.9854

ens.9854

I think the only real argument for giving thief rifle is that thief doesn’t have a 1200 range option…

Obviously it is absurd to say it is the logical choice because anet is free to pull whatever lore/rationale out of their kitten (lol dragonhunter) to justify their choice. Thief with shield for team support or scepter/torch for ‘shadow arts’ type abilities could just as easily be created.

Plus giving thief another burst option is hardly diversification… people whine enough without them being at max range. Maybe a condi sniper, but that seems bad

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Posted by: CobOfCorn.6352

CobOfCorn.6352

I can see thieves being whined about if we get the rifle and it’s a ranged power weapon, but some of the people above have some really good points. If revenant hammer is ranged, and mesmers greatsword is ranged, there’s no reason to instantly rule rifle out as a melee weapon. That being said, I really hope we don’t get rifle- I like the idea of something more unexpected like torch or focus (maybe even a mainhanded version of an offhand) but that’s just my opinion.

Ably

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Lol, rifle melee weapon.

I’d probably just get up and leave if another specialization that wasn’t bullCat wasn’t immediately announced for the thief as compensation.

Because then it’s either just worse than our existing melee options and bad or better than them being OP and looking stupid the entire time. I’m no fan of the rifle even from long ranges, and hate the stealth-sniper concept, but at least that makes sense.

I see each specialization so far tie into the lore of each class. The Dragonhunter has a dumb name, but I believe the class in the way it plays and its concept isn’t too far-fetched. The Chronomancer and Reaper fit in excellently into the class themes they represent even if they drastically change the style of play and mechanics of the class.

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Posted by: Shifu.4321

Shifu.4321

What I’d like to see is a mainhand mace weapon, turning the thief from a stealthy high burst class into a quick, heavy CC-oriented, lockdown class – basically a faster hammer warrior. Perhaps with greater tankiness while giving up some stealth.

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Posted by: yolo swaggins.2570

yolo swaggins.2570

What I’d like to see is a mainhand mace weapon, turning the thief from a stealthy high burst class into a quick, heavy CC-oriented, lockdown class – basically a faster hammer warrior. Perhaps with greater tankiness while giving up some stealth.

s/p can already accomplish lockdown.

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

What I’d like to see is a mainhand mace weapon, turning the thief from a stealthy high burst class into a quick, heavy CC-oriented, lockdown class – basically a faster hammer warrior. Perhaps with greater tankiness while giving up some stealth.

s/p can already accomplish lockdown.

And it’s evade is better “tankiness” than what you seem to want.

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Posted by: Ephemiel.5694

Ephemiel.5694

It has to be a rifle. There’s just no reason for them get anything else and it would make sense, especially if the spec does end up being Assassin.

By the way, you know Riel Darkwater? The leader of the Order of Whispers? Guess what weapon she’s seen using in the during the Order of Whispers cinematic? Before you say anything about the others in that pic, i’d think it’s kinda obvious that the leader of this entire Order based on stealing and espionage is a Thief.

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Posted by: Sadrien.3470

Sadrien.3470

Give thieves a off hand torch that make sword viable on condis / hybrid.

But anyways that file dark water is a good hint like Marjorie gs that thieves will get rifle which I will ofc not use.

Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.

(edited by Sadrien.3470)

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Posted by: MrForz.1953

MrForz.1953

If you were to see a Thief NPC dancing with two ladles, would you also believe it will be the next weapon for the class? Geez.

Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Ephemiel.5694

Ephemiel.5694

If you were to see a Thief NPC dancing with two ladles, would you also believe it will be the next weapon for the class? Geez.

When it’s the leader of the Order of Whispers, yes. Good job comparing 2 ladies with a rifle by the way.

“Would you kindly?”

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Posted by: Gulesave.5073

Gulesave.5073

I could have fun with a mainhand torch. I’m picturing circus-style firebreathing, toxic smoke, and a melee attack that explodes on impact into an aoe.

The exact functionality would depend on the new steal mechanic and utilities. Probably more focus on smoke and explosions than on fire and burning, overall.

I should be writing.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

If you were to see a Thief NPC dancing with two ladles, would you also believe it will be the next weapon for the class? Geez.

2 dancing ladies weapon set.. yes plz

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

If you were to see a Thief NPC dancing with two ladles, would you also believe it will be the next weapon for the class? Geez.

…. YES.

ARE WE!?!?!

They have to be very very distracting if you know what I mean… I mean… You can use that to backstab your victims… yes…

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Posted by: MrForz.1953

MrForz.1953

I said ladles, not ladies, LADLES! You… don’t know what a ladle is? o.o

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Posted by: Ephemiel.5694

Ephemiel.5694

I said ladles, not ladies, LADLES! You… don’t know what a ladle is? o.o

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. Well, that’s a kitchen utensil, so my point still stands.

“Would you kindly?”

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

I said ladles, not ladies, LADLES! You… don’t know what a ladle is? o.o

:D It’s not that we didn’t know, it’s that we choose what/how we wanted to read….

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