Guild Wars 2

still fairly new to thief but i want to learn to use S/D so what do you guys think about this build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhKnYpTw7JQ/EH+ElvJWioYHAv2Z2TrWoNB-T1BBwAYV+B4UAgT9nU6Dg8EAWu/wZlgBAQA4m38m3sNLFgg6sA-w

i already own both armor sets, i just need help with the traits and picking 1 set of runes over, also if you guys could share some tricks

does jump #2 with s/d still works? or how do you know execute that trick, i cant do it unless it got patch or something

EDIT: so i figure out the jump sword trick
first you must press both keys at the same time, not J and then 2 or 2 and then J
J=jump, 2=sword skill #2
if you J+2 and then 2 or J+2 – trick will work, you dont shadowstep back
if you 2 and then J+2 – trick will not work, you will shadowstep back

Your second one is pretty close to how I build S/D. DA/CS/Tr works in sPvP which is where I do the majority of my play right now. Consider pack runes as well since they really compliment CS and Tr, especially when paired with No Quarter.

i feel really slow without the speed runes though, even with the first build but i might just change the trickets to full berserker to gain more precision. i also need the vitality from both runes since im still on my training wheels D:

i dont really know any combos, any advice on that

Still very very glassy though. Pick your fights wisely I guess. Especially against anti melee builds like condition survival Rangers or Celestial Dagger Elementalist.

Are you talking sPvP or WvW? If sPvP, why not just go with either of the Metabattle versions. There’s nothing that Runes of Speed or Sig of Malice will do to improve those and outside of that, they’re pretty similar.

I do not like the 1st choice, relying on SoM & Dagger S for your sustain is reckless. This basically means that every minute and a half, you will get a surge of hp (you need at least 3 targets for that) , other than that you will be dead. everyone 90 secs you will get your moment of glory and after that GG.

2nd Choice is much much better, but i insist on picking Signet of Power instead of Flawless Strike.

- F S only applies when you health is pretty much great. the rest of the time, which is all the time this trait won’t be activated… It’s not really inneficient imo.

- SoP you did use Signet of Inflitration, so this traits grants you extra mobility and 5 stacks of might… which is better than that extra crit damage from the latter trait.

Second choice is well done I think, just tweak it a little bit and you got this.

They’re both decent.
Signet of Malice is a terrible Heal skill for S/D, Withdraw is the best option out there as the evades of it play in well with the style. Even Hide in Shadows would be better, imo.

Going for Critical Strikes, I’d pick No Quarter as a Grandmaster trait because S/D and SB stealth attacks aren’t really hard-hitting skills. Consider Sword’s Blind/Daze and SB’s Immobilize more of an utility skill.
I’d personally also go for Signets of Power if you’re going to use Infiltrator’s Signet as a gap closer a lot.

You could also opt for the Signet of Agility instead because Sword #2 is an excellent gap closer (jump->#2 in rapid succession for that trick where you don’t get the return point. Keep in mind that you need to have a NPC or PC targeted for this to work (could also be #2→jump, I can’t remember… It became muscle memory :P)).
Using the Signet of Agility would also boost your Precision even higher and you already got (too) much of it.
I’d advice to put on a few Valkyrie pieces. That much Precision tends to go to waste.

Personally, I prefer and play the trait setup of DA/TR/Acro, I feel it properly allows me to at least hold out against opponents with cheat-death crap or tons of random Condi.
Both Acrobatics and Critical Strikes work well, I just prefer being a tad more durable.

EDIT: I should also add that speed runes are pointless. You can Steal without target to proc Swiftness, you can dodge for some Swiftness, you can move around with Sword #2 and shortbow #5, you could do forward Withdraw by using About Face.
All in all you can move around really fast even without that 25%.
I’d personally recommend Pack Runes or Eagle Runes. Depending on your playstyle, you could even go for Ogre Runes.

so i guess ill try this for now and mess around with Acro and DA until i get good(and like the trait line), then ill upgrade to pack runes and see if its worth the change from ferocity to power and change the sigil of acc to sigil of blood

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsY4al0MhKnYpTw7JQ/EH+ElvJqioYHAv2Z2TrWoNB-T1BBwAYV+B4kAgT9nU6Hg8EAWu/wZlgBAQA4m38m3sNLFgg6sA-w

BTW has anyone tried s/d with mesmer runes? i feel like the stun from sword could be annoying but idk if it could be viable

so i figure out the jump sword trick

first you must press both keys at the same time, not J and then 2 or 2 and then J
J=jump, 2=sword skill #2

if you J+2 and then 2 or J+2 – trick will work, you dont shadowstep back
if you 2 and then J+2 – trick will not work, you will shadowstep back

darkaheart.4265:

so i guess ill try this for now and mess around with Acro and DA until i get good(and like the trait line), then ill upgrade to pack runes and see if its worth the change from ferocity to power and change the sigil of acc to sigil of blood

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsY4al0MhKnYpTw7JQ/EH+ElvJqioYHAv2Z2TrWoNB-T1BBwAYV+B4kAgT9nU6Hg8EAWu/wZlgBAQA4m38m3sNLFgg6sA-w

BTW has anyone tried s/d with mesmer runes? i feel like the stun from sword could be annoying but idk if it could be viable

I’m not one to critique builds so just a couple of questions that might help me in turn. If you’re going Tricks for condition clear and you already have the critical uptime, why not go with Flanking strikes for another possible condition clear and a little Haste while you’re already hopped up on Fury? Comparably, if you’re already going with Thrill of the crime why not pimp out Steal all the way with Bountiful Theft and switch around a few things for killing speed?

Also, if you are going Tricks condition clear and cooldown reduction and not full killing speed, why not take out that signet synergy and put Scorpion wire or maybe Roll for Initiative and get Basilik Venom instead? I’ve tried to use the other elites being S/D pretty much all the way through and BV seems the most consistent and applicable to what my roll is normally, though weapon set shouldn’t imply playing style, I’m only curious and I like to try out stuff people mention on this forum.

kash.9213:

darkaheart.4265:

so i guess ill try this for now and mess around with Acro and DA until i get good(and like the trait line), then ill upgrade to pack runes and see if its worth the change from ferocity to power and change the sigil of acc to sigil of blood

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsY4al0MhKnYpTw7JQ/EH+ElvJqioYHAv2Z2TrWoNB-T1BBwAYV+B4kAgT9nU6Hg8EAWu/wZlgBAQA4m38m3sNLFgg6sA-w

BTW has anyone tried s/d with mesmer runes? i feel like the stun from sword could be annoying but idk if it could be viable

I’m not one to critique builds so just a couple of questions that might help me in turn. If you’re going Tricks for condition clear and you already have the critical uptime, why not go with Flanking strikes for another possible condition clear and a little Haste while you’re already hopped up on Fury? Comparably, if you’re already going with Thrill of the crime why not pimp out Steal all the way with Bountiful Theft and switch around a few things for killing speed?

Also, if you are going Tricks condition clear and cooldown reduction and not full killing speed, why not take out that signet synergy and put Scorpion wire or maybe Roll for Initiative and get Basilik Venom instead? I’ve tried to use the other elites being S/D pretty much all the way through and BV seems the most consistent and applicable to what my roll is normally, though weapon set shouldn’t imply playing style, I’m only curious and I like to try out stuff people mention on this forum.

im going to answer your questions as i read them along.
if i use flanking strikes, i might as well just use DA and speed up the killing with executioner, right! :P but im not because im still fairly new to thief.
im also going with bountiful thief and not trickster because i dont think its worth the 3.5s reduction and the 1 condi removal worth the, plus vigor is more valuable with acrobatics and the 2 boons.
by signet synergy, i think you mean infiltrators signet and idk, we all like to shadowstep lol but then ill have to remove the signets of power and go with side strike trait, but ill see maybe ill just try it out.
as for the elite, ill be in wvw so ill be changing that often depending on how i feel.
i like both skills, especially when you run into a ranger and pop dagger storm while they use rapid fire on you lol

i might also try out the runes of the centaur since theyre stupid cheap and very similar to runes of the pack, without the +125 precision, might and fury. im hoping it’ll stack with Don’t Stop trait so -100% cripple

Just to put my 2 cents in here, I Personally use this build for WvW:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhinYtTw0Jw/EHwEkPMxpN9skknoTQA2NA-TlCEABhfIAeSpXLq/4kyAuUCSwDAwgjAQN7P4h+AAOBAkBoaMA-w

I have been able to go toe to toe with just about every class except Mesmers…. I had a good 2 min fight with a good power Necro, that I still managed to win. I know there might be some inefficient bits to the build, but it works really well for me. Haste has gotten me out of lot of sticky situations and Scorpion wire makes for a good interrupt and to pull those people standing on the ledges of tower/keep walls. I know using Lyssa runes is very odd, but I find that they work really well for Basi venom, which I don’t use to engage, I use mid fight when I use either Shadow return or Infiltrator’s return to get a bunch of condi’s off. Again though, this really tailored to my style, but I hope it can give you some ideas.

Edit: Just wanted to state that Shortbow has worked wonders with Mesmer though, despite my statement that I have a hard time with them in general. With the high base dmg and Shortbow #1, I can just slaughter the clones before they become an issue, if I’m quick enough, it will also go for stealthed Mesmers if they are hanging around their clones.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsY4al0MhKnYpTw7JQ/EH+ElvJqioYHAv2Z2TrWoNB-T1BBwAYV+B4kAgT9nU6Hg8EAWu/wZlgBAQA4m38m3sNLFgg6sA-w
That looks a fair bit more solid.
I’d still recommend switching some Berserker pieces for Valkyrie pieces, you don’t need that much critical hit chance.

Personally, I roll this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhCnYpTwyJw/EHwElPNOj2oXYJRiqTgAY3A-TVCFABHq+DAPAgrUCKwRAIJlf1s/Qa6DI4EAswhAIAACwNbz28mBO6RP6RP6R7m38oH9m3sUACKMC-w

@Vornollo
hmm pack runes go very well with valkyrie armor, tons of health there but if it was my build all ill do is change DA to CS, food to Furious maintenance oil and ill get more ferocity + no quarter = around 250% crit damage, sigil of fire to sigil of acc, but except ill never go all ascended.
first i dont want the advantage over others so ill just go all ascended trinkets,
second ascended armor and weapons are a fortune

Your pick, CS is a solid choice and the Furious Maintenance Oil is amazing (I use it on my glassier D/P builds).
I pick DA because of Mug really. Improvisation and Panic Strike are just nice bonuses

But indeed, Pack runes allow you to pick up more defensive gear. In my opinion, S/D revolves more about maintaining a presence and pressure. For that I take Power over precision and ferocity.
Also, with high Crit-chance builds, you could also opt to use food like omnomberry pie, it’ll give health on critical hit based on an x % chance. Pretty good stuff!

This is the best s/d build there is imo….

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhCnYpTw7Jw/EHwElPNOj2oXYJRiqTgAY3A-TZBFABCcCAEvMwCHCAd2fAgnAAA

Pack runes are a legit alternate option but vamp makes you nearly unkillable. This is the closest we have to a bruiser build at this point.

I have to disagree, unless you’re playing in an organised group where you can be certain your party members can pick you up, the Vampire Rune will often just postpone the inevitable. It’s proc is just a ‘count to three before final burst’ indicator in any other scenario.

Besides, the build is ment to cater to WvW, in that vast open area, the vampire rune goes even further to waste. I personally find that rune to be overrated and inferior to the Pack Runes as long as you are aware of positioning and enemy behaviour/animations.
It only sees use in team play because those people know they’ll probably have the back-up to get revived from downed, or receive some burst heal (+cleansing).
Claiming such a rune would make you nigh unkillable is just ridiculous.

I think Runes of Rage and Marauder amulet are better than pack if you’re running No quarter

Hey guys what do you think of that proposal of rune of the adventurer ? does that makes sense ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3azi98/how_to_play_sword_dagger_thief_without_competly/

Today I learnt that sword/dagger must be played almost without cloak and dagger…My effectiveness incresed by 120% ^^

Wargameur.6950:

Hey guys what do you think of that proposal of rune of the adventurer ? does that makes sense ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3azi98/how_to_play_sword_dagger_thief_without_competly/

Today I learnt that sword/dagger must be played almost without cloak and dagger…My effectiveness incresed by 120% ^^

is cool and everything but it feels like a waste of rune set, if youre going for direct damage s/d. the extra dodge every time you heal just doesnt cut it,
plus the conditions s/d outputs are not damage conditions so that +175 condi will disappear in thin air D:

Oh hey I wrote that build on reddit. Two months later and having played tons of both adventurer S/D acro and D/P meta, I still find S/D viable, and prefer it over D/P even in ranked arenas.

Link to the build in question:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhunYpTwwJw/EHwElPNOj2oXYJRiqTgAY3A-TpBFABiXGwo9HI4BA02RAYhDBAAnAAA

S/D acro is viable as a far-point assaulter out of the gate due to its ability to contest a point by remaining mostly out of stealth, and its better ability to stand up to straight 1v1s compared to D/P. (I am of the opinion that with Infiltrator’s Return and Signet of Agility, S/D actually deals with conditions better than D/P does with Shadow’s Embrace.) S/D possesses similar or even superior disengage as D/P does with correct use of Infiltrator’s Strike/Infiltrator’s Return, which means that you can still leave losing fights with ease and +1 or decap somewhere else.

However, what puts D/P SA above S/D acro in competitive play is team utility and not dueling ability. D/P has increased res speed, they automatically stealth who they’re ressing, and they also have access to on-demand interrupts and blinds. Ideally you’d look at the team comps and decide whether or not you can take S/D over D/P. If you already have strong team fighters, it may be possible to run S/D and play the far-point game. But if you have trump card roles like power mesmer or cele necro, you are better off playing D/P and supporting them in fights whenever you are not decapping.

Even after trying daredevil in BWE2, I would almost leave my S/D build as-is, especially given the current state of daredevil’s dodges. Despite the acro line being a mere shadow of its former self, it still possesses some key traits, namely Hard to Catch, Don’t Stop, and the improved vigor (even though it’s still worse than pre-June baseline vigor).

EDIT: This is only referring to sPvP. In WvW, I actually think S/D is a far better duelist/roamer than D/P is. It can even stand up to PU perplexity mesmers, provided you properly shed your conditions with your sword and don’t overcommit.

@Saital
have you ever tested runes of air or runes of centaur? in pvp though

I have not personally used either of those two runes in PvP. When choosing runes, you have to consider what they offer you in fights and in worst-case-scenarios.

Consider Runes of Vampirism for example. It offers a useful statistical bonus in 175 Power, in-fight sustain through two different life leech procs, and burst mitigation through the mist form.
Adventurer runes offer an acceptable stat boost of 100 Power (and 175 Condition Damage which, admittedly, is only useful for Serpent’s Touch), as well in-fight sustain and avoidability through an extra dodge every 18 seconds (or more often if Improvisation recharges Withdraw).

I’m assuming you’re mentioning Air or Centaur runes for their Swiftness duration, but unfortunately, they both pale to Vampirism (and even Adventurer!) for what they offer in fights. With respect to Air runes, Ferocity scales worse than raw Power, and the lightning proc happens too infrequently to be useful (and it could reveal you from stealth, though I haven’t tested this). Generally, Thrill of the Crime by itself will give you all the Swiftness you need in fights.

Centaur runes are almost usable, but even then they are straight-up worse than Runes of the Pack, which are occasionally seen on thieves as an alternative to Vampirism. Pack runes offer a huge raw stat bonus in 175 Power and 125 Precision, as well as superior boons since the Pack proc also gives Fury and Might in addition to Swiftness, synergizing very well with Thrill of the Crime.