Guild Wars 2

There’s only 2 things to say in this kind of situation.

Ha. Ha.

J/k. Seriously, why are thieves getting nerfed? I understand they can 1 shot clothies, but isnt that kind of the point? I mean, I get killed in like 4 seconds by dancing dagger spam, Sure , I complained, but I wasnt crying NERF, I was just trying to understand where the damage came from so i can better myself in the future.

I’ve already learned how to counter the thieves. Question is, Why havent the other players? Why do thieves have to suffer because the majority of the playerbase just suck.

Some thieves can one shot anyone that’s the point (for technical reason 3 shot is more appropriate). Also access to stealth + shortbow (not as individual mechanics but together) means thief is very survivable even on glass builds with that much burst damage.

To say it again just because it can be countered doesn’t mean it’s balanced.

How can we one shot anyone?

I suppose if they are low level and we are stealthed and get of a BS theres an outside chance but really most glass builds work on a chain that starts with steal, moves to CnD and then goes to BS.

That makes burst damage and kills situational and as it should be.

TheGuy.3568:

Some thieves can one shot anyone that’s the point (for technical reason 3 shot is more appropriate). Also access to stealth + shortbow (not as individual mechanics but together) means thief is very survivable even on glass builds with that much burst damage.

To say it again just because it can be countered doesn’t mean it’s balanced.

This problem (stealthy teleport after a failed attempt to burst someone), will dissapear with the rendering fix…
Thief after this burst attempt has the revealed debuff and initiative to one usage of the infiltration arrow (900 range), so he´s not even out of range for any other classes ranged abilities (I assume we´re talking about the signet+basilisk GC combo Thief, which is persistently complained about).
And even if he sucesfully runs away, he cannot do the burst again for 45 seconds (aka, -1 player to the team…)

Kashien.6278:

I’ve already learned how to counter the thieves. Question is, Why havent the other players? Why do thieves have to suffer because the majority of the playerbase just suck.

Only a minority of players prefer to adapt and learn about a class rather than cry for nerfs This is why QQ about Thieves rarely comes from tPvP and more often from people caught off guard in WvW.

That said, just because something can be countered, doesn’t mean it’s balanced.

Ideally all abilities should fall into a certain power spectrum and even a glass-cannon duel should last a few seconds. This is what’s broken about the Backstab combo (note: the combo, not Backstab itself). It’s too much damage in too short of a window, leaving many players with little time to react or respond.

I don’t really have a problem with people complaining about the Backstab burst combo. My problem is when people solely blame Backstab itself, rather than the 6k Steal or the fact that we can pre-cast Cloak and Dagger. That’s what’s broken about the Backstab combo, not Backstab damage itself.

people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.

so when paper gets beaten by scissors, they cry for a nerf, ignoring that they beat rock. then scissors gets beaten by rock, and cries for a nerf, and have now lost their advantage over paper. then rock gets beaten by paper, and cries for a nerf, and have lost their advantage over scissors. at that point, everything has come full circle, and really the only thing that’s happened is that everyone’s lost a little bit. and then the cycle begins again and again and again, until we end up only able to throw grapes at each other, hit each other with cardboard swords, while wearing styrofoam armor.

and even then, the cries for nerfs don’t stop. as long as they’re catered to, they’ll continue. the precedent has already been established. “live in ignorance and whine to win.” if a company were to come out and say “this is the game we made. we’ve done extensive testing. this is how it is intended to work. suck it up and deal with it princess” they may not have a large boom in sales at first, but the quality of their product will supersede anything that’s on the market, and will have people returning to it over and over for many years to come.

but people can always complain. they can always lie. they can always force ignorance onto others and foster the mob mentality. so the long term good is sacrificed in favor of short term gratification.

and once this cycle has reached a certain point, games have to draw on imbecilic gimmicks to try to keep people interested. such as kung fu pandas, and imitation pokemon. but…. behind the gimmicks, the substance has been lost. once the novelty fades, it’s all seen for what it really is, and people begin to look elsewhere for the quality that is no longer present in the game they’re playing. the ignorant mob will follow, and the whole long “cycle of suck” begins anew.

the sad part is, i don’t see these things ever changing. at least not any time soon. developers are forced to push their products out before having ample time to test them so that deadlines can be met. they’re forced to fix bugs after the game has been released. people act like “my character got killed” is a bug. the companies don’t want to lose their playerbase, so are left with little choice by to cater to these people.

i’d honestly love to sit them all down in front of an NES, pop in double dragon (after blowing in the cartridge, wiggling it around for 15 minutes, and other various tricks we used to use to get the game to work), and see how they react when confronted with a challenge they can’t change. how many would rise to the occasion, and how many would quit after their first game over screen? if nothing else, it would certainly be an interesting experiment.

If my elem is slightly specced towards anything other than full blown bunker I barely have time to hit mist form before I’m dead. They need to remove the thief class from the game or start over as it is poorly implemented and makes everyone’s playing experience horrible. Except for the thieves themselves or the self proclaimed champions of E-sports who will tell you “they have no problem with thieves”. These are probably all also thieves in disguise though.

I’ll stealth away from the nerf bat then backstab it for 1,000,000 dmg then re-stealth and walk away laughing manically.

I only play WvW on my mesmer. Thieves are getting out of hand. On my server we are seeing stealth teams assigned to various objectives. They are basically unkillable. The map chat is full of complaints about unseen killers. This is as bad as DAOC archers at release (and I had a scout).

I love it how the thieves think that it is all bads with issues. Unless you devote your entire spec to surviving thieves yur gonna die from a thief. If you do go full bunker congratz you made him run away. Now go try and kill something. I suppose we can all stand together in one spot with our bunker builds and cast AoE heals while thieves run off and play the game?

hellfish.6740:

If my elem…

quercus.9261:

I only play WvW on my mesmer.

both light armor wearing casters

Phantom.8130:

people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.

I will just say, I play a warrior in WvW. To me it felt like a one shot kill when I had full health. It really was a steal for about 8K, Cloak and Dagger for about 3K then back stab for about 12K. Yes I was dead. I could not counter that at all. In about 1 second I was dead and had no idea were it came from. Yes, thief should be nerfed. I only say that because that there was nothing I could do besides die. That is not that fun. On top of that, after he killed me, he just disappeared so no-one else could kill him. They should removed stealth all together. That would make is much better and more even.

Phantom.8130:

both light armor wearing casters

So? Are you saying light armor classes should be free kills for thieves or what?

kaysyn.5801:

I will just say, I play a warrior in WvW. To me it felt like a one shot kill when I had full health. It really was a steal for about 8K, Cloak and Dagger for about 3K then back stab for about 12K. Yes I was dead. I could not counter that at all. In about 1 second I was dead and had no idea were it came from. Yes, thief should be nerfed. I only say that because that there was nothing I could do besides die. That is not that fun. On top of that, after he killed me, he just disappeared so no-one else could kill him. They should removed stealth all together. That would make is much better and more even.

sorry for asking
but
do you use lvl 80 exotics ?
are you sure you did not had any armor pieces broked when you got hited by 12k in an single hit? specialy as heawy armor user
cause as far as i see it is troll post 1/10

TheGuy.3568:

Some thieves can one shot anyone that’s the point (for technical reason 3 shot is more appropriate). Also access to stealth + shortbow (not as individual mechanics but together) means thief is very survivable even on glass builds with that much burst damage.

To say it again just because it can be countered doesn’t mean it’s balanced.

thief here. specced crit until i realized how ridiculously OP it is. nerf thieves/crit damage to the ground!

Phantom.8130:

people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.

The only MMO that had r/p/s was DAoC. It was a stupid idea back then and it’s still a stupid idea today. Name one other MMO that had this philosophy?

hellfish.6740:

If my elem is slightly specced towards anything other than full blown bunker I barely have time to hit mist form before I’m dead. They need to remove the thief class from the game or start over as it is poorly implemented and makes everyone’s playing experience horrible. Except for the thieves themselves or the self proclaimed champions of E-sports who will tell you “they have no problem with thieves”. These are probably all also thieves in disguise though.

they need to remove aoe from elementarist skills , but we didn’t asked for it yet
anyway would be an good ideea

Phantom.8130:

hellfish.6740:

If my elem…

quercus.9261:

I only play WvW on my mesmer.

both light armor wearing casters

Phantom.8130:

people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.

And? The thief isn’t supposed to kill cloth classes in 2-3 seconds. The entire idea that the stealth classes are supposed to instant kill casters/clothies is dumb. The point of the stealth class going after those classes is because they can stealth and get back to them where non-stealth classes are killed before they can reach them. If we are going to use the same rules from other games that features the above then thieves shouldn’t be able to scratch a heavy armored class and ranged should completely destroy the heavy armored.

None of that applies in GW2 though because those roles/rules were tossed out the window. We have cloth class builds that are melee based and heavy armor class builds that are ranged based. ArenaNet caved the pressure to put in a stealth assassin and surprise! It failed horribly. There is no place in this game for it. There are no stealth counters, damage doesn’t bring them out of stealth, and heavy armor classes don’t eat them for breakfast.

The sooner we move away from people trying to use rules/roles from other MMO’s, the sooner we can get a balanced class that actually takes some skill to play.

quercus.9261:

I only play WvW on my mesmer.

enough sayed
you are in same boat with thieves ( 2-3 stealth skills )
why you trow the cat in our backyard…
should thieves come to your forum and start troll regarding your class ?
the most powerfull elites ingame ( without any doubt)
portals ( ruin WvW
3 stealth skills
clones who hit for 3-4 k damage

are you an troll sir ?

If mesmers need to be adjusted so be it. I usually go full crit/zerkers/shatter and I kill the odd bad thief. The good ones insta-gib me every single time. There are lots of other classes that don’t do as well.

WvWvW is turning into TvTvS(heep). That is the problem. I have a L50 thief and stopped playing it. It is so easy to kill folks even at L50. You could even theoretically macro the whole steal/CnD/BS combo and turn it into a one-button kill. I am sure no thieves have programmable mouse/keyboard? Playing this class screams IMBA. Mesmer doesn’t but whatever.

I remember one-shotting purple-con wizzies in DAOC with my scout and thieves in this game are no different. Prepare for the nerf bat.

All aboard the nerf thief QQ train! Come on baddies! You have your free ticket! Instead of learning to play hop on board!

Yes…everyone else in the game is bad and just picking on poor thieves and no other class. No one knows how to play yet oddly the only class everyone is kittening about are theives. Why aren’t they complaining about Necros? Why not Rangers?…..and why not (gasp) Warriors with their one ability they can bug out. Keep telling yourselves that you’re skilled and everyone else is bad. You guys are so FoTM it’s not even funny. Just about every sPvP game in the Mists has at least 5 thieves. On more than one occasion I’ve been on servers with 7 +. Now why do you think that happens?

quercus.9261:

If mesmers need to be adjusted so be it. I usually go full crit/zerkers/shatter and I kill the odd bad thief. The good ones insta-gib me every single time. There are lots of other classes that don’t do as well.

WvWvW is turning into TvTvS(heep). That is the problem. I have a L50 thief and stopped playing it. It is so easy to kill folks even at L50. You could even theoretically macro the whole steal/CnD/BS combo and turn it into a one-button kill. I am sure no thieves have programmable mouse/keyboard? Playing this class screams IMBA. Mesmer doesn’t but whatever.

I remember one-shotting purple-con wizzies in DAOC with my scout and thieves in this game are no different. Prepare for the nerf bat.

And you want it MvMvS(heep)
got the message
you could actualy pres v and dodge entire combo (but is hard cause is not an macro is an single button)

Mek.2947:

Yes…everyone else in the game is bad and just picking on poor thieves and no other class. No one knows how to play yet oddly the only class everyone is kittening about are theives. Why aren’t they complaining about Necros? Why not Rangers?…..and why not (gasp) Warriors with their one ability they can bug out. Keep telling yourselves that you’re skilled and everyone else is bad. You guys are so FoTM it’s not even funny. Just about every sPvP game in the Mists has at least 5 thieves. On more than one occasion I’ve been on servers with 7 +. Now why do you think that happens?

every sPvP is full of thieves because you make an lvl 1 char and go spvp .
How many thieves are in tournaments ?
Who want an thief in team ?

One good dodge in time cancels OP backstab dmg, pls stop crying you guys. The real problem is p/d condition thief. There is no class that can beat them (if they are pro) in 1v1. BS thief is warmp up for them, ubalanced heavily.

How are you supposed to dodge if you can’t see the person attacking you?

Rayya.2591:

kaysyn.5801:

I will just say, I play a warrior in WvW. To me it felt like a one shot kill when I had full health. It really was a steal for about 8K, Cloak and Dagger for about 3K then back stab for about 12K. Yes I was dead. I could not counter that at all. In about 1 second I was dead and had no idea were it came from. Yes, thief should be nerfed. I only say that because that there was nothing I could do besides die. That is not that fun. On top of that, after he killed me, he just disappeared so no-one else could kill him. They should removed stealth all together. That would make is much better and more even.

sorry for asking
but
do you use lvl 80 exotics ?
are you sure you did not had any armor pieces broked when you got hited by 12k in an single hit? specialy as heawy armor user
cause as far as i see it is troll post 1/10

No level 80 exoticx and not sure if any pieces were broke. All I know it really sucked.

Distaste.4801:

And? The thief isn’t supposed to kill cloth classes in 2-3 seconds. The entire idea that the stealth classes are supposed to instant kill casters/clothies is dumb. The point of the stealth class going after those classes is because they can stealth and get back to them where non-stealth classes are killed before they can reach them. If we are going to use the same rules from other games that features the above then thieves shouldn’t be able to scratch a heavy armored class and ranged should completely destroy the heavy armored.

and, if you notice people who spec and build their gear for defense have no problems beating a thief. the ones who say they do either A: suck, or B: are lying. they’re either not built for defense, they’re using incorrect numbers, they’re low level and undergeared, or are just making the entire situation up entirely. because, yes, people DO lie on the internet.

None of that applies in GW2 though because those roles/rules were tossed out the window. We have cloth class builds that are melee based and heavy armor class builds that are ranged based. ArenaNet caved the pressure to put in a stealth assassin and surprise! It failed horribly. There is no place in this game for it. There are no stealth counters, damage doesn’t bring them out of stealth, and heavy armor classes don’t eat them for breakfast.

perhaps this is the source of the problem. Anet’s choice of wording for their roles. (no, they didn’t get rid of the roles entirely.) Anet worded it as “control, damage, support” whereas “defense, damage, support” probably would have worked better. sure, a warrior can become a glass cannon, but then they’re moved into the damage role. they’re no longer defense. a bunker build is defense, which tends to be pretty easy to deal with if you’re support. notice the key wording there as well. “deal with”. that doesn’t necessarily mean that the support character will be standing over the body of their foe. it means they can completely shut them now, nullify them, and weaken them for others to kill them.

The sooner we move away from people trying to use rules/roles from other MMO’s, the sooner we can get a balanced class that actually takes some skill to play.

and the sooner we can get away from people trying to be solo players in MULTIPLAYER games, and start understanding how the core of it all works, the sooner the forums can be used for actual discussion instead of endless bitter whining.

If the player can’t see you, then he can’t very well anticipate what you’re doing in order to dodge your attack now can he? I mean did dodge become an unlimited ability that didn’t require endurance to use or something? I’m so glad I can just roll around on the floor until a thief wastes his back stab. Didn’t know that was a counter.

I predict consecutive nerfs to backstab:

1st To take it down to a level they want.
2nd To take it down again to that level once they realize Ascended stats boosted the damage above the intended level.

As sad as it is for me to say this that even if there was 1 class there would be calls to nerf it cause they got beat by it. how it goes i guess?

Phantom.8130:

people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.

So, if I play an Elementalist, Mesmer or Necromancer and see a Ranger, Engineer or Thief I should instantly run away because unless they are horrible I’ll die every time, if I play Ranger, Engineer or Thief and see a Warrior or Guardian I should instantly run away because unless they are horrible I’ll die every time, if I play an Warrior or Guardian and see a Elementalist, Mesmer or Necromancer I should instantly run away because unless they are horrible I’ll die every time. Sounds like a totally enjoyable gameplay to me…

Phantom.8130:

and, if you notice people who spec and build their gear for defense have no problems beating a thief.

Yeah, it’s so simple, for every profession but the Thief glass cannon should simply not be viable. Sounds like a totally thought-out game design to me…

Kashien.6278:

Seriously, why are thieves getting nerfed?

Really??

hellfish.6740:

Phantom.8130:

both light armor wearing casters

So? Are you saying light armor classes should be free kills for thieves or what?

if you wish to over simplify things, then yes. scissors are the hard counter to paper, but paper is the hard counter to rock. that’s just how it works.

hellfish.6740:

The only MMO that had r/p/s was DAoC. It was a stupid idea back then and it’s still a stupid idea today. Name one other MMO that had this philosophy?

first off, i said RPG. you said MMO. what you’re dealing with is an MMORPG. so a larger scale RPG.

SWTOR started out with that exact same dynamic, but people whined for nerfs until that was changed. i didn’t get in on the ground floor of WoW, but i’m willing to bet that the same thing holds true there as well. D&D also has the same dynamic. it’s how a balanced party is created. the holy trinity (tank/dps/heal) which has been altered here to “control, damage, support” revolves around that. though, “defense, damage, support” might be a better way of looking at it.

a class can build for damage, they can build for defense, or they can build for support. 3 roles, the paper, scissors, rock motif still applies. burst damage thieves just have a different way of doing their damage. they’re still “scissors” they still are the hard counter to “paper”, and are still countered by “rock”. if you’re paper, and tired of being killed by scissors, play rock. you don’t even need to make a seperate character to do so. you can alter your traits and gear on the same character, and will find a whole new perspective on the situation. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, then expect to be killed by scissors more often than not. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, but wish to beat scissors more often than not, you have unrealistic expectations. especially considering you are already the hard counter to rock. you now wish to be one role’s weakness, and on even ground with the other two. that would give you an unfair advantage.

TheGuy.3568:

Some thieves can one shot anyone that’s the point (for technical reason 3 shot is more appropriate). Also access to stealth + shortbow (not as individual mechanics but together) means thief is very survivable even on glass builds with that much burst damage.

To say it again just because it can be countered doesn’t mean it’s balanced.

Even some of the warriors with 30K HP I see in youtube videos?

Nope.

RamataKahn.4283:

Kashien.6278:

Seriously, why are thieves getting nerfed?

Really??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

this video is from sept 23rd, thieves have already been nerfed since then… get some more updated videos if you want people to take it seriously.

OCDouglas.5401:

RamataKahn.4283:

Kashien.6278:

Seriously, why are thieves getting nerfed?

Really??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

this video is from sept 23rd, thieves have already been nerfed since then… get some more updated videos if you want people to take it seriously.

That particular build and strategy was not nerfed.

RamataKahn.4283:

OCDouglas.5401:

RamataKahn.4283:

Kashien.6278:

Seriously, why are thieves getting nerfed?

Really??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

this video is from sept 23rd, thieves have already been nerfed since then… get some more updated videos if you want people to take it seriously.

That particular build and strategy was not nerfed.

Aspects of it were. Stealth debug being one of them.

Phantom.8130:

hellfish.6740:

Phantom.8130:

both light armor wearing casters

So? Are you saying light armor classes should be free kills for thieves or what?

if you wish to over simplify things, then yes. scissors are the hard counter to paper, but paper is the hard counter to rock. that’s just how it works.

hellfish.6740:

The only MMO that had r/p/s was DAoC. It was a stupid idea back then and it’s still a stupid idea today. Name one other MMO that had this philosophy?

first off, i said RPG. you said MMO. what you’re dealing with is an MMORPG. so a larger scale RPG.

SWTOR started out with that exact same dynamic, but people whined for nerfs until that was changed. i didn’t get in on the ground floor of WoW, but i’m willing to bet that the same thing holds true there as well. D&D also has the same dynamic. it’s how a balanced party is created. the holy trinity (tank/dps/heal) which has been altered here to “control, damage, support” revolves around that. though, “defense, damage, support” might be a better way of looking at it.

a class can build for damage, they can build for defense, or they can build for support. 3 roles, the paper, scissors, rock motif still applies. burst damage thieves just have a different way of doing their damage. they’re still “scissors” they still are the hard counter to “paper”, and are still countered by “rock”. if you’re paper, and tired of being killed by scissors, play rock. you don’t even need to make a seperate character to do so. you can alter your traits and gear on the same character, and will find a whole new perspective on the situation. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, then expect to be killed by scissors more often than not. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, but wish to beat scissors more often than not, you have unrealistic expectations. especially considering you are already the hard counter to rock. you now wish to be one role’s weakness, and on even ground with the other two. that would give you an unfair advantage.

I didn’t play SWTOR so you might be right about that. WoW on the other hand had at no time anything like that. D&D didn’t have any PvP as far as I remember so not sure what you’re saying here.

You make very little sense next. So let me get this straight. When a thief goes burst he’s scissor, but when an elem goes burst he’s paper. Therefor thieves will kill elems. Now elems can go rock (bunker) and stand a chance against scissor thieves. However thieves can ALSO go rock…

We have thieves: Scissors and rock.
We have elems: Paper and rock.

Except in GW2 paper doesn’t beat rock…

So can my elementalist be scissor too? And can you have thieves be downgraded to paper status that can’t beat scissors or rock? If that’s what you’re suggesting I’m in full agreeance with you.

I suspect you were smoking something when you wrote that post however, feel free to pass it along…

hellfish.6740:

I didn’t play SWTOR so you might be right about that. WoW on the other hand had at no time anything like that. D&D didn’t have any PvP as far as I remember so not sure what you’re saying here.

when NPC’s in D&D were created properly, there was quite a bit of what would be considered PvP. by properly, i mean, built and designed as any other character would be. so taking out leader of the mage’s guild? PvP. fighting off assassins? PvP.

You make very little sense next. So let me get this straight. When a thief goes burst he’s scissor, but when an elem goes burst he’s paper. Therefor thieves will kill elems. Now elems can go rock (bunker) and stand a chance against scissor thieves. However thieves can ALSO go rock…

both classes have the ability to become paper, scissors or rock. when a thief goes burst, he’s scissors. when a ele goes burst he’s scissors. when they’re attacking. if they go glass cannon, both classes are paper when being attacked. so scissors will still cut through them. now, thieves are set up better to work as scissors, and ele’s are set up better to work as paper(though their build as rocks is truly fearsome). so thieves hold the advantage. now, if the ele goes rock, that advantage shifts to the ele. however, the ele rock build is a bit harder to play, so most tend to avoid that route.

Except in GW2 paper doesn’t beat rock…

it depends on how you define beating. if you define it as shutting them down and completely nullifying them, yes, they can. if you want to kills, play scissors.

So can my elementalist be scissor too? And can you have thieves be downgraded to paper status that can’t beat scissors or rock? If that’s what you’re suggesting I’m in full agreeance with you.

so you’ll agree if thieves are made to be weak against two roles and strong against none? sorry, but that i can’t agree with. every role is strong against one other role, and weak against the other. you can’t ask for one to be weak against two.

a thief can go the paper route,(though it’s more difficult), but then they are weak against scissors and strong against rock. and ele’s can go rock, and are a very very effective rock.

each specific class has their preferred role too. thieves are best at being scissors. much like warriors and guardians are the best at being rocks. that’s not to say that other classes can’t become these other roles, just that some classes are more equipped to take on this role than others.

the guys on the video play very well and have good coordination,i dubt i can do the same because it’s a fact that 2 players with same build,weapons etc aren’t equal,it’s a fact in games and it’s fact in life.

Everyone that ever dies to a thief is a baddie and every thief that ever wins against anyone is a stellar player. Its just a fact.
So stop asking for nerfs and stop being a baddie and remember it takes such a massive effort for thieves to even have a chance against you.

Look. Im not trying to instigate violence. No one is proven to be a baddie on this forum, so stop using that term. I’m just trying to understand where the NERF bat is coming from.

Assassins in guild wars 1 were always included in “Burst” Damage. They either had a A/? or a ?/A In thier build. They linked attack chains to do insane amounts of damage, nearly 1 shotting people in thier chain.

Guild wars 2, i feel the thieves are the same way.

In guild wars 1. You have many options to defend against a thief. You had, riposte as a warrior/ Deadly riposte, you had “balanced stance” to protect against knockdowns, you have distortion on a mesmer, you had blind on an elementalist/ throw dirt on ranger. The options are endless.

I feel it is the same way with guild wars 2. I can block for 2 seconds with my heal ability as a guardian, I have Aegis, I have dodge rolls, I have blind, I have spells and abilities that grant me defence against thieves.

As a mesmer, you have distortion, you have a sword #2 attack( i think its #2), you have dodge rolls, you have a blink, you have blind with a scepter, knockback with a greatsword, you have your clones and STEALTH.

There are a number of options available, and not just to counter thieves. I kknow warrior builds that do 11k Eviscerates. You just cant be nerfing thieves because the majority of the play base has not learned to utilize the game mechanics to thier full advantage. As thieves seem to be doing so just fine.

Even the Elementalist staff 1 auto attack while in earth attunement will increase your survivability. Lol.

I’ve given hope of understanding why people keep whining up, its just a matter of not being able to whin 24/7 as alot of people wanne do.

If you can play you class decent you have a very good chance against thiefs !!! and thats a fact.

Oke offcourse in some cases you have those 100% full all out crit guys that kill you in 2-3 secs and that is a fact also but not everyone plays that way and i’ll never play that way either.

I find full crit thiefs a joke and its fun to play against them, they die faster then you can say Risk Your Life !!!

Anyway im just gonna see whats gonna be changed tomorow.
I’m already holding my train ticket out of GW2 and heading for Darkfall soon if hell breaks loose.

Enjoy have fun

Crit build thieves really aren’t even an issue. One 5-6 second immunity negates all of their burst.

P/D thieves are a whole other story. You either have to be playing a high burst role (dagger thief, warrior) for the 3 seconds they are out of stealth or get lucky and out DoT their healing. I have deferred that my burst ranger build just struggles with this role and others may have much better luck with them.

I have said this on another post on the thief forum but will repeat:
Your best skill is a 5-6 second immunity skill that most/all professions can spec or have naturally. This negates burst from thieves and great sword warriors. People need to stop specing all damage and CC with no defense.

Kashien.6278:

Look. Im not trying to instigate violence.

Yeah, calling numerous players they suck in the OP is surely the basis for a reasonable, constructive discussion. How could anyone ever be offended by that?!

Assassins in guild wars 1 were always included in “Burst” Damage. They either had a A/? or a ?/A In thier build. They linked attack chains to do insane amounts of damage, nearly 1 shotting people in thier chain.

Sins in GW1 were horribly designed, playing them boiled down to pressing 1-2-3-4-5 every 20-30 seconds, or going R/A and pressing 1-2-3 all the time when their Lead and
Off-hand attacks had ridiculously low cooldowns.

Ah thieves you’re making a fundamental mistake – you can’t use the ‘you need to learn the class’ line because it takes 5 minutes to get into pvp on a thief and 5 minutes after that you’re facerolling to victory. Yes I’ve done that and anyone with more than 2 fingers can do so too with minimal effort – the thief is so hysterically overpowered its beyond laughable.

I look forward to this patch with much anticipation.

Thieft nerf = thumbs up

I never get to actualy fight a thief, either they kill me extremely fast or the thief is taking more dmg than he wanted and go instant stealth and dissapears.

@tagnut
You know that all of your posts have been anti-thief/Nerf thief threads. I wonder what you play? Great sword warrior? Mes? I really haven’t seen anything constructive come out of you yet. Maybe you should refrain from posting in general.

Thieves are definitely a powerful class. They are by far the most bursty. Every burst build has glaring flaws. After playing a thief, you should be able to see these flaws and adjust. Yes they might have an advantage against most in a 1v1 situation, but EVERY class has the ability to negate the 2-5 second 100%-0% health issue caused by them. I am not saying learn to play. I am saying, play more instead of posting and you would probably have something constructive to say here.

tagnut.8621:

Ah thieves you’re making a fundamental mistake – you can’t use the ‘you need to learn the class’ line because it takes 5 minutes to get into pvp on a thief and 5 minutes after that you’re facerolling to victory. Yes I’ve done that and anyone with more than 2 fingers can do so too with minimal effort – the thief is so hysterically overpowered its beyond laughable.

I look forward to this patch with much anticipation.

it only takes 2 minutes to go in thief forums and make up storyes. Yes you have done that with minimal effort
that’s why i noticed your post is troll 2 / 10