Guild Wars 2

How was your expereince?

I love it. But just as well, I also know that it needs an increase in Initiative. 1 is just silly. Two or even Three would be much more balanced, and honestly, necessary

Ye, it’s really good now.
Skill itself deals resonable damage (pretty good), has evasion on it, and more to it- it steals up to two boons.
I used it 3 times on guardian and ended up with retaliation, regen and 10sec on protection.
As well stole 5 stacks of might from warrior and fury, which both were held till I killed him.
Really good change, especially great for non-bursters.

Used the skill once. INSTANTLY fell in love. Everything about it is positive:

1) Pathing is immensely improved.
2) It just…“feels” more reliable. In terms of how you move, and the transition to ordinary movement after the evasion. It just feels a lot better.
3) Boon steal itself is fantastic
4) LS boon steal portion is unblockable instead of the first part (which stripped a boon before). This needs to be emphasised.

Is it useful for PvE?

PearlGore.7419:

Is it useful for PvE?

There even boons in PVE?

PearlGore.7419:

Is it useful for PvE?

I think it’s more useful for PvP since boons give you a nice advantage, and is really common to see people with some interesting boons like might and protection

For PvE, it may not be that awesome. I, at least, dont see many Sword thieves in PvE, and boons are not as common as they are in PvP or WvW

Some champions or mobs in dungeons have regular boons, though I have yet to test the new skill on them.

There just aren’t many boons in PVE, those fights that do contain them they tend to be rapidly reapplied so the removal part isn’t that helpful but the stealing part is as it means you can have those boons on your thief.

Take the Mark T-B34RC3 fight in CoE, throw down smoke screen to block 2 of the turrets (if it still works) then steal the other 2 turrets boons off them.

but yeah mostly a pvp thing

Are the boons you steal affected by the duration of the person who casted it (stole from) or does it depend on your own personal boon duration? Like as if you casted the boon yourself when you stole it.

PearlGore.7419:

Is it useful for PvE?

For certain boss mobs? Yes. I hate dealing with an Arah push while an Eye of Zhaitan has x25 Might stacks and Retaliation up. Being able to instantly steal them is amazing. Yet this is also going to be circumstancial since only some mobs will be boon magnets.

I don’t know for sure but the elementalist I faced in WvW melted under my pressure and I ended the fight with 4 boons myself

Anyone else notice LS seems to steal defensive boons from a target first?

This I like.

My thief was PvE only and I played S/D mostly until the nerf when I tried D/P and then shelved the thief. With this patch including reveal reversion in PvE I will return to the thief. In terms of FS, the improved pathing and reliability alone will be enough to use it regularly instead of rarely and incidentally. Very happy with these changes.

Joy!

LS and FS pathing looked amazing on paper – super glad to see it’s panning out.

Can anyone verify the damage of LS as compared to the second swing of pre-patch FS? I’m assuming Pre-patch first swing and post-patch flanking strike hit for the same amount of damage.

The new FS is amazing in sPvP, I’ve been playing this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlUmaPHdS4E/JFx2jeuTeypwpGVrAN7KgVA-TsAA1CnIKSVkrITRyisFNQYZxkAA

I mean, the new FS pathing is really really good now, it can be used as a better gap closer even better than before now, the 2 boon steal is very effective against heavy boon classes such as Engies, Guardians and Eles, I mean it, it really is effective, not just on paper.

My thoughts:

Likes:
New animation is much more reliable, boon steal is very good the way they did it here.

Dislike:
The worst part of the change is that you’re skill 3 is changed to larcenous strike meaning if you need to evade again in quick succession you cannot do that. You have to now click through LS to get to your next flanking strike evade, which is very bad.

It’d be better if they make it so you can activate LS quicker so you can utilize your next flanking strike evade.

Overall: It’s much better, good changes, but it would be nice to have more user control over being able to evade the exact moment you want to like with the pre-patch flanking strike.

I’m honestly happy for s/d thieves brings out more diversity and counter play. Hopefully one day damage focused eles will receive this love.

Oh god that skill is truly amazing.

Those pesky HGH engies become so much easier to take down. Steal their 20 odd stacks of might and you can hit 3k with auto attack alone and heartseeker crits for 9k (from second weapons set) and I’m not even using the cookie cutter glass cannon build.

Also that’s only just one of their boons you can steal. You can spam this baby and take everything.

Im so used to old Flanking strike I forget to press Larcenous.
It’s a cool change but my muscle memory is completely out of sync with how it plays now Q_Q. Im still trying to evade cancel Q_Q.
I hope they bring back the cancel in a subsequent patch. I miss my evades.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Flanking strike use to be able to hit up to 3 units with BOTH attacks? Now, it only hits up to 3 with Flanking and only 1 with Larcenous. I’m not sure I like the overall damage nerf just to be able to steal 2 boons.

avilo.1942:

Dislike:
The worst part of the change is that you’re skill 3 is changed to larcenous strike meaning if you need to evade again in quick succession you cannot do that. You have to now click through LS to get to your next flanking strike evade, which is very bad.

But a good change, you can no longer spam evades, leaving room for counterplay and making you more aware of your own dodges. Hey, you still have Disabling Shot.

I like it, but it doesn’t function quite as described.
The skill rolls over even if you don’t hit the enemy (bug)
The damage dealt doesn’t reflect the displayed tooltip (bug)
The sword strike portion of FS deals ~50% less damage than LS (bug)
The sword strike portion of FS can still miss the target (bug)
The pathing of FS has been improved, but there is still a 10-15% failure rate (bug)
The animation cancelling effect of LS can cause a delay the further into sword #1 chain’s attack animations you go, thus creating a choppy transition and increasing casting time (bug)

That’s my experience after 20 minutes of testing.

Craziplaya.2103:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Flanking strike use to be able to hit up to 3 units with BOTH attacks? Now, it only hits up to 3 with Flanking and only 1 with Larcenous. I’m not sure I like the overall damage nerf just to be able to steal 2 boons.

No. It is the same as before. The first strike in FS can hit up to 3 units, but the 2nd strike hit only 1 target.

Personally I really like the new pathening and the larcenous strike. Works pretty well and has a decent effect. Even useful in PvE for bosses =)

S/D is going to be seen quite a bit. Larcenous strike does the same damage as Cloak and Dagger. Open with Flanking Strike, do the cloak and dagger, Mug and then F1 ability, then follow up with Larcenous Strike. Not quite as bursty as backstab, but will hurt more than the old FS.

S/D try…… skill order 3 5 1 3 or 3 5 3…… i use trait 0 30 20 20 0

The only fix that FS needed was it’s animation and pathing.

If they wanted it to strip 2 boons, they should have changed the values from 1 to 2.

Having access to LS even if FS didn’t hit is an obvious bug, but if it got fixed, then this change is stupid since the first strike should be unblockable and boon stripper hit, then the second strike is the damage hit.

Switching it around was a bad move, but if they are going to keep this buggy version, then I’ll be pre-rolling to LS also. But that’s just bad design since we have to work around it. :/

The fix should’ve been;
First attack – (sword) LS – Cost 3 init – same animation – unblockable, boon steal
Second attack – (dagger) FS – Cost 1 init – evade and stab – from side/behind

But oh well.

There are going to be a lot of complaints from non-thieves about S/D. For kicks, I did a power crit build (not 100%, PVT armor and melandru runes + lemongrass soup) and under 50%, Larcenous strike was hitting easily for 4-6K. It’s going to be so easy to pre-load LS via FS, then CnD, Mug, Tactical Strike and LS, only to FS again and CnD, TS then LS again. With the right traits and utilities, init won’t be too much of an issue.

All the HS spammers are going to set up the mice keybinds and roll over to S/D.

I played several games and now am under the impression this will be nerfed in the near future. You can play complete gs spec and either be evading/stealth pretty much indefinitely. Throw in a couple blinds/shadow steps all the while spamming boon removal and yeah… Far too easy and easily abused by the masses that WILL go to it.

Fade.7658:

S/D is going to be seen quite a bit. Larcenous strike does the same damage as Cloak and Dagger. Open with Flanking Strike, do the cloak and dagger, Mug and then F1 ability, then follow up with Larcenous Strike. Not quite as bursty as backstab, but will hurt more than the old FS.

Pretty negligible.
Since the damage is the exact same, you could have prior used FS and Mugged during the 2nd hit. Then hit 5 if you want. At which point if they’re alive you daze, and can inf strike and auto/fs. The only difference is kind of when you can CnD and in certain situations (protection) you’ll deal less now because you can’t strip it first before your 2nd hit :o.

Fair trade off for the improved usability however, though I miss my evade spam Q_Q.

Fade.7658:

All the HS spammers are going to set up the mice keybinds and roll over to S/D.

I think you’re missing exactly what makes HS spamming popular. It isn’t the ability to generate damage with a complex set of keybinds, no matter how well you can automate it. And it definitely has nothing to do with having to control positioning for Tactical Strike and successful FS while executing this complex rotation.

Yeah, using LS before CnD could net you a ton of might stacks or fury. You can FS, mug, LS then cnd into a tact strike.

I suspect the damage on LS will drop some to appease people.

Edit: If you’re going for flat out damage and don’t care about re-stealthing immediately, you can follow up the tactical strike with another CnD for the damage.

Tulisin.6945:

Fade.7658:

All the HS spammers are going to set up the mice keybinds and roll over to S/D.

I think you’re missing exactly what makes HS spamming popular. It isn’t the ability to generate damage with a complex set of keybinds, no matter how well you can automate it. And it definitely has nothing to do with having to control positioning for Tactical Strike and successful FS while executing this complex rotation.

Well, it wouldn’t be as easy as HS spamming, but the point I was trying to make is that it will appeal to them.

it’s not as bad as a thought but still very far from the mainstream specs.

I very much enjoy killing them (S/D thieves) though xD

Fade.7658:

Tulisin.6945:

Fade.7658:

All the HS spammers are going to set up the mice keybinds and roll over to S/D.

I think you’re missing exactly what makes HS spamming popular. It isn’t the ability to generate damage with a complex set of keybinds, no matter how well you can automate it. And it definitely has nothing to do with having to control positioning for Tactical Strike and successful FS while executing this complex rotation.

Well, it wouldn’t be as easy as HS spamming, but the point I was trying to make is that it will appeal to them.

Since pretty much the entire point of HS spamming is easy kills with zero effort, the point I was trying to make is that it won’t. There are already tons of tactics that appeal to people who want to use a complex rotation and positioning to win a fight.

People are going to try S/D partially because most people have been using D/ for awhile and they’ll want to try a little difference.
Some will stop if they aren’t getting the results they want, others if their team doesn’t feel they’re putting up enough.

Pure lowbie pve leveling opinion, it feels like I just lost a auto attack because I have to use two cooldowns on one move.

Can’t argue with it sticking on target though.

Auesis.7301:

Used the skill once. INSTANTLY fell in love. Everything about it is positive:

1) Pathing is immensely improved.
2) It just…“feels” more reliable. In terms of how you move, and the transition to ordinary movement after the evasion. It just feels a lot better.
3) Boon steal itself is fantastic
4) LS boon steal portion is unblockable instead of the first part (which stripped a boon before). This needs to be emphasised.

Not to mention you can mix in a few autos and even a cnd with the larcenous strike not being refreshed. Makes it sooooo nice to be unpredictable. ONLY downside is that you really can’t do multiple quick evades anymore, makes sense though. Sword is supposed to be a balanced offensive and defensive weapon. Sbow is the defensive weapon that relies on the evade spam in hairy situations so it makes sense that it’s the one that gets the amazing defensive abilities.

Pretty sure they buffed the damage on the 2nd hit as well. Was doing reliable 4500+ crits. Almost hit 6k with 3 might so as it feels it’s a GREAT alternative to dagger dagger. Love that now I actually have an effective way to fight boon stacking classes. 1 boon strip just wasn’t enough before. Stealing 2 at a time makes it a LOT more balanced fighting someone who has near infinite access to boons. Pretty sure I’m going to go d/d s/d for wvw from now on. Feels so good now that we have our 3s revealed back. Going to take a few days getting used to 3s again but my god it feels good.

Larcenous strike is so sexy in tpvp, I wasn’t expecting it to steal two. Pair it with bountiful theft + thrill of the crime in a team fight… so powerful if you get the right boons.

That moment when you steal a 20+ stacks of might from an HGH engi

I haven’t tried hard but the testing I was doing seemed pretty cool, I might consider trying it, my only problem is that changing my whole stat line in WvW/PvE is far too expensive.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The only fix that FS needed was it’s animation and pathing.

If they wanted it to strip 2 boons, they should have changed the values from 1 to 2.

Having access to LS even if FS didn’t hit is an obvious bug, but if it got fixed, then this change is stupid since the first strike should be unblockable and boon stripper hit, then the second strike is the damage hit.

Switching it around was a bad move, but if they are going to keep this buggy version, then I’ll be pre-rolling to LS also. But that’s just bad design since we have to work around it. :/

The fix should’ve been;
First attack – (sword) LS – Cost 3 init – same animation – unblockable, boon steal
Second attack – (dagger) FS – Cost 1 init – evade and stab – from side/behind

But oh well.

Nah, I prefer it the way it’s now. The first iteration serves as a gap closer and you don’t need to inmediately use the second fase, which would make the first non 5-1-1 /D set rotation.

Wtf is vincent talk about.
Put the evade second?
You’re nuking your own defenses.
Lol wot.

as far as I know only #5 abilities have costs above 5 initiative all the others are <= 4 init

Flanking strike and Larcenous Strike and 1 ability splitted into 2 strikes, so the total initiative cost of the ability was also split between the 2 Strikes. but if you wish to suggest splitting the 4 total initiative a different way 2/2 or 1/3 its fine by me but by doing so the evade part of the first strike will be allot more accessible. so imo 3/1 is just perfect.

Edit: If instead it worked like before, 1 ability 4 initiative and consecutive 2 strikes? would you like it better?

Volrath.1473:

as far as I know only #5 abilities have costs above 5 initiative all the others are <= 4 init

All 1-4 skills are 4 ini or below?

So what about Pistol Whip? Unload? Deluge? Death Blossom?

skill initiative goes:

Skill 1: Free
Skill 2: 3 initiative
Skill 3: 4-5 initiative
Skill 4: 4 initiative
Skill 5: 6 Inititiative

Exceptions:

Skill 2 on Sword: Optional follow up for additional 2 cost
Skill 3 on Sword+Dagger: Lower base cost of 3 with follow up additional cost of 1
Skill 2 on Harpoon: Higher cost of 5
Skill 5 on Aquatic Weapons: Lower cost of 5

As for the order of the strikes I have to semi agree with Vincent with a few changes.

Dual skills all use their off-hand first for the animation (even though all the damage is based on mainhand) before it was evade and stab with dagger removing 1 boon (before the damage was applied) follow up with a big ol’ slugger with your sword.

So all the damage was after you potentially removed protection/aegis

Now its evade and small hit then boon steal and bigger hit afterwards.

Comes out as 33% of the damage from the attack happens before you potentially remove the defensive boon you might have removed before.

So I would have kept the order the same/similiar so that you get the full potential still (as it stands its a slight damage loss unless your gaining something meaningful from the stolen boons)

my ideal rotation would have been: First dagger strike Evade, one boon steal then the small damage

Second sword strike flip skill, one boon removal(or steal if you really want it at full power) and big damage

Means you potentially remove a defensive boon before any damage like before with added utility on second strike that you don’t have to wait a day before landing.

Also thematically you’d be stealing with the precise subtle weapon then smashing with the big one, but thats my personal preference.

Guess it will work out how it is but still seems a bit silly moving so much of the damage in front of the boon removal.

I’ve been trying it out in PvE, but it seems inferior to Pistol Whip. The evade is too short and it only hits 1 target.

ensoriki.5789:

Wtf is vincent talk about.
Put the evade second?
You’re nuking your own defenses.
Lol wot.

Did you even read my whole post?

Oh, why I even bother responding to you…

In PvE, this skill definitely has its moments. Those moments are any time your opponent has boons. In dungeons especially, bosses can have over 100% uptime on a particular boon. You can keep stealing that boon to give yourself that same uptime. I actually want to try it on that one HotW boss with the three totems. Permanent regen, protection, and retaliation… For you, now that you can steal them. The 4 turret golem in Crucible of Eternity also springs to mind.

To be honest? I think the transition to two boons and to stealing instead of just removing was a bit too strong. I honestly think they should cut it back to one boon per combo, or turn the LS ini cost to 2, or cap the duration on stolen boons. (Ten seconds? Not a really tight cap, just enough to block stealing huge durations that cost the other player 40 second+ recharges) I dunno. Something though. Cutting it to one boon would be the most drastic measure, but I really do suspect it’s too capable of screwing over your opponent without significant investment from the thief.

On a related note, do you think Bountiful Theft could get the same steal mechanic that LS has? As it is, Boontiful Theft doesn’t seem to properly steal stacks or duration.

Softspoken.2410:

I actually want to try it on that one HotW boss with the three totems. Permanent regen, protection, and retaliation… For you, now that you can steal them. The 4 turret golem in Crucible of Eternity also springs to mind.

I’ve tried both scenarios. If you just stay in melee and use FS/LS to evade the Butcher’s attacks, the totems become worthless. I had completely permanent Protection and Regeneration – the Retaliation was taken less regularly. Against the golem, it never got a chance to use any boon, ever.

Where it REALLY shines, though, is against Dredge. If you wait for the Disaggregators to give out their full durations, you can use LS on every companion mob. So far, I’ve managed to stack up 2+ minutes of Protection and Regeneration on myself against big packs. I would also get 10-15 stacks of Might if I did some repeat steals. Nevermind the fact that you also significantly debuff the group and make it less threatening.

Auesis.7301:

Where it REALLY shines, though, is against Dredge. If you wait for the Disaggregators to give out their full durations, you can use LS on every companion mob. So far, I’ve managed to stack up 2+ minutes of Protection and Regeneration on myself against big packs. I would also get 10-15 stacks of Might if I did some repeat steals. Nevermind the fact that you also significantly debuff the group and make it less threatening.

lol, that’s right. Those buggers like to stack a huge amount of boons.