Guild Wars 2

hi,
From what I could understand it is now split into 2 abilities, the first one “Flanking Strike” that strikes the opponent and evades behind it costing 3 initiative and the second called “Larcenous Strike” that will cost 1 initiative and will steal a random stack of boons from the opponent.

my question is, will it work like auto attack automatic rotation or will we have to hit it twice to connect Larcenous Strike?

if we have to hit it twice, it can be very dangerous for thieves to use it. if by any chance you are blinded/blocked or simply miss it you will be losing 6 initiative with zero results or 7 init for 1 Larcenous Strike, and that is the death of a thief! if you miss it once you need to get out of there asap and come back when you have more initiative.
Also if it takes the 2 key hits for the full effect. ppl will ALWAYS press it twice in a row, no one will hit it once and wait to see it it actually hits to press it again so if it misses the first one we will ALWAYS lose the 6 initiative…

With the amount of passive blocks and invulnerabilities in game atm we will be wasting initiative on thin air…

as it is atm if we miss it for some reason, we lose 4 init and would not spam it since the animation is long and the risk of doing 2 Flanking strikes back to back is very low, but like this, will surely be a initiative drain… high risk of losing a lot of initiative for very little benefit.

Please clarify this, do we need to press the key twice for the full effect of the ability or will it do both hits (Flanking + Larcenous) on one key press?

Edit: do se know how the stolen boon will be selected? As in will it be the last boon applied by the opponent? Will it be the first one? Will it have a priority list or will it be simply a random boon?

It’s just so we know if we Jane any control over the boon were stealing or not.

I thought they made it pretty clear during SOTG that it was 2 presses. The dev said the ability changes. To me this sounds no different than Sword #2.

if that is the case, and without having tested it, so in theory it’s bad… ppl will lose all initiative ridiculously fast…

Gonna have to wait and see TBH, some unanswered questions:

If we always flip the skill even on a miss, does it persist long enough to precast?

Do we retain the unblockable part?

Which boons are prioritized?

I also agree that the init cost is prohibitive, boons are reapplied VERY often… the skill does too much other stuff to lower it though

Volrath.1473:

Also if it takes the 2 key hits for the full effect. ppl will ALWAYS press it twice in a row, no one will hit it once and wait to see it it actually hits to press it again so if it misses the first one we will ALWAYS lose the 6 initiative…

With the amount of passive blocks and invulnerabilities in game atm we will be wasting initiative on thin air…

The answer to this is literally learn to play, and you actually gave the solution in your post.

Don’t hit the button twice immediately. Hit it once, make sure you hit with that, line up your shot, and hit it again. If it’s anything like infiltrator’s strike, there’s not gonna be a big rush to hit it before it reverts on its own.

Did they happen to mention if flanking strike keeps its boon strip on first strike and such?

If flanking strike is mostly unchanged with the exception of the flip it seems a bit counter productive to first strip a boon, land a big hit then steal a boon.

Surely it would be more sensible to steal then strip then hit hard with the flip skill…

From what I gathered, the boon steal is now on the second part. It’s not both a strip and a steal.

It also takes all the stacks + duration, so if someone stacked Might to 20+, it’s all yours.

Hoping to eventually be able to share it, as they mentioned.

I obviously thought about it but will you actually play like that? i mean wait and see it it actually hit? what about the “dynamic play”? if you have to stop to see if your hit didn’t miss before you can press a key again there is no dynamic to it, on the contrary it becomes clunky as hell…

I am not a button spammer but if i have an ability split into 2 i will press it twice to get the full effect and if the first misses and it doesn’t change to the second ability ill end up wasting A LOT of initiative for a failed boon theft…

I don’t get what you’re complaining about. If you can’t see the “miss”, “block”, “invulnerable” or “damage number here” and respond to it accordingly, I don’t really know what to say. The concept is not difficult.

next week well test it out but i’m very pessimistic about it, i believe D/P will still be the choice for most thieves in competitive play simply because it provides the most survivability of all.

and without mug ofc.

I hope I can still chain the evades together quickly if I have a lot of initiative and HAVE to dodge.

If not, at least I still got my short bow for that.

I’ll pass judgement when it changes. I normally rarely use flanking strike(and I main S/D), but when I do use it, there is no substitute for what it can do.

From what I’ve heard this doesn’t sound like much of a buff, depending how it comes out we could be loosing 1 of the 2 really usable weapon skill evades and actually loosing boon removing ability for a slight increase in our own boon access (sort of)

It being a chain skill is my main issue with it. While chain skills can be very useful. I’ve had to use FS many times for the dodge losing that functionality will suck something fierce. I wonder also if this a test to do a similar chain skill situation to Pistol Whip.

Volrath.1473:

if that is the case, and without having tested it, so in theory it’s bad… ppl will lose all initiative ridiculously fast…

People will actually not lose initiative faster because they are making it to where both FS and LS together will cost the same initiative as FS currently does

Toastybob.7189:

Volrath.1473:

if that is the case, and without having tested it, so in theory it’s bad… ppl will lose all initiative ridiculously fast…

People will actually not lose initiative faster because they are making it to where both FS and LS together will cost the same initiative as FS currently does

Yes, but the whole point of this was to combat boon machines… and at 4 init per boon, and you don’t get to choose which one, you are gonna burn through it pretty fast. If you can spam larc strike until it hits, that would be nice…

ITS STUPID! doesnt help out defense them kittening liars. its a 1 v 1 change. so is mug nerf. nobody wants 2k heal. it wont help. “taking the boon from the ele/guard will cripplle them” yeah if they stand in the same spot they get it right back or recast it seconds later!

This change is “suppose” to be a counter to bunkers but how can you kill anything if it requires us to use not just a main hand weapon, not just an off hand weapon but BOTH, and for a “bunker killer” they chose the one weapon setup that has absolutely NO bust ability!

Smart move!

S/D can burst in current state. Likely will not be able to afterwards.

Auto attack is not burst….

I’d tell you to aware yourself on FS+Mug, but they’re changing it anyways.

ensoriki.5789:

I’d tell you to aware yourself on FS+Mug, but they’re changing it anyways.

Tadaaaaa!
It’s the anti-bunker weapon set with no bust ability besides auto attack! Wooohoo

Well, you really don’t need much burst if you can just keep stealing all their boons for yourself.

How can you be so sure?
Boons are not the only thing making bunkers “bunker” there are traits, gear, utilities, weapons… Removing boons does help but without burst you will never down a bunker alone.

This boon stealing business is a great idea, just on the wrong weapon set. Specially because it requires a specific main and off hand not just one or the other.

Firstly don’t spam the skill like a scrub and it won’t be a problem.

Secondly take away regen/Protection/Vigor, and a bunker won’t stand up to ever auto attacks. Especially if you couple it with the 66% daze upkeep on S/D. They will get whittled and die.

Thirdly: Can we wait for the patch before we pass judgement. Paper=/= play.

Fourthly. S/D isn’t a burst set. Its the closest thing to support we have as thieves. We can set up “spikes” often with 2 “spam” we can throw up dazes to prevent non stun break defenses. and now we can even boon strip much more effectively.

I’m quite looking forward to the return of the soldiers/clerics S/D build that i used to run long ago before the tact. strike nerf and the revealed nerf.

It’s sustained damage, with mug>CnD>Tac Strike as a burst when steal is on cooldown(Fantastic burst too when they crit, and the stun shuts down their ability to heal it off).

S/D is sustained damage with great control. Yes, you autoattack all day long, but it’s pretty good damage(Heck, it’s more than pistol whip in the long run). Plus, you’re only autoattacking between the CnD>Tac Strikes(Or other utility skills as seen fit based on the fight).

With the change to mug moreso than flanking strike, it won’t be able to burst as high, since the burst combo relies on the crits. It’ll give more survivability with the heal though, I guess.

You ALWAYS have burst if you have Mug and CnD before, regardless of main weapon, as that was the true bulk of the burst… now, not so much since mug can’t crit.

PS: My build already steals boon with Bountiful Theft. And let me tell you, it’s amazing, regardless of who you’re up against. As long as Flanking Strike is FLUID and not AWKWARD, it’ll be great, but I am afraid of losing the ability to chain the evades together. Hopefully the animation is fast for both of them and doesn’t root. Gotta try the new flanking strike before passing judgement, but based on mug’s descriptiong, that’s easy to pass judgement on.

Tactical strike took a big hit last patch with the reveled nerf…
Seriously… Why revert it in all aspects of the game EXEPT sPVP?! What’s the reason behind this? Ppl complained about the thieve’s stealth in wvwvw due to culling I never read anything about stealth in competitive play…
Having reveled at 4s in sPvP is basically pushing me away from in and encouraging me to go scouting/roaming in wvwvw.

Meh… i absolutely adored S/D as it was. I hope this new “buff” to Flanking Strike doesnt block that skill for the same duration as Infiltrator´s Strike gets blocked by the Return skill. There should be te possibility to dismiss it if it will stay for long. if it just stays as long as the regular #1 chain skills, it´ll be okay as it wears off before i have to worry about it.

it’s good and all that they are trying to make new specs and weapon sets viable for us, imo that is the right way to go but… what confuses me is why would they chose this particular weapon set to be the “Bunker counter” since it is the ONLY weapon set we have that has NOT 1 burst ability whatsoever!

D/x -> Backstab + Heartseeker
P/P -> Unload + Sneak Attack
P/D -> Sneak Attack
S/P -> Pistol Whip
S/D -> …..
Sort Bow -> Cluster Bomb

So from ALL of our weapon sets, why is the ONLY one that has NO burst capabilities be chosen to be the “Bunker Counter”?

Do they expect us to steal boons and auto attack them to death?!

I mean, the idea of being able to steal stacks of boons from our opponents is great but without the dps to down them?! and don’t bother saying that we can switch weapons after stealing the boons cuz:

1) the second weapon set belongs to short bow.
2) even if you try and run without a SB and take a bursty weapon set, were is the initiative to use it? to steal 3 boons from our opponent costs 12 init.

Imo these change will not help thieves in getting a spot in a competitive tournament team.

I have edited the original post and added another question, if someone knows the answer ple share.

Ofc if a dev answer even better!

Volrath.1473:

Auto attack is not burst….

s/d can burst. just requires a specific setup.

Volrath.1473:

I have edited the original post and added another question, if someone knows the answer ple share.

Ofc if a dev answer even better!

in removal and as in most games its removed/taken/stolen as last one stacked. so if u go protection…fury…..might…… int hat order ….might should get stolen as it has the highest % of usage time left.

Travlane.5948:

Volrath.1473:

I have edited the original post and added another question, if someone knows the answer ple share.

Ofc if a dev answer even better!

in removal and as in most games its removed/taken/stolen as last one stacked. so if u go protection…fury…..might…… int hat order ….might should get stolen as it has the highest % of usage time left.

That makes sense! But for instance, if the first applied boon was swiftness and on a longer timer then the following boons? Will/should it steal the last applied one even though it has a short duration, or the boon with the longest duration left?

Before april 30th go role 25 or 30 da + 30 CS and 10/15 trickery.
Hit FS, hit mug.
There is your burst.

It’s not that S/D lacks any burst, it’s generally harder to use, and in comparison if you’re going to burst with S/D you have to consider ease of use and whether you’d be better off for the role your doing with something else generally that means Dagger mainhand instead.
S/D can burst though they’ve been removing it’s ability to do so since …I believe it was November? And all signs point that they’ll be nerfing its ability even more come the 30th.
I guess they want a GW2 version of the shattering assault sin…I think but pressure isn’t highly valued generally in GW2.

Volrath.1473:

Travlane.5948:

Volrath.1473:

I have edited the original post and added another question, if someone knows the answer ple share.

Ofc if a dev answer even better!

in removal and as in most games its removed/taken/stolen as last one stacked. so if u go protection…fury…..might…… int hat order ….might should get stolen as it has the highest % of usage time left.

That makes sense! But for instance, if the first applied boon was swiftness and on a longer timer then the following boons? Will/should it steal the last applied one even though it has a short duration, or the boon with the longest duration left?

well i imagine its the last one placed on that is stolen. put it this way….remove condis is similar. i put on bleeds first….then cripple then poison beforethey heal…so when they start removing…i want my high stack of bleeds to stay on! so i gotta strategically place it so the others remove and not bleed.

@ ensoriki.5789

In gw2 competitive pvp, you win by controlling the nods longer then the opponent team. So if it is defended by a bunker, you need to take him out asap so that you can claim the nod for your team. If the fight lasts 2+ minutes then he is doing a better job then you. Bunkers usually heal themselves quite a lot and without some kind of spike dmg they are extreamly hard to take down. Hell even with spike dmg they are hard to go down…

@volrath……agreed…

ok so that said lets take more dmg away from thieves even tho they are the easiest to kill by far…..and keep in mind retal/burning. you will NEVER ever ever ever ever ever win against a bunker guardian in spvp after 4/30 unless hes just a total noob.

I didn’t say anything contrary to that. Pressure isn’t valued well in GW2 because of the score ticking constantly. Similarly in pve you rather roll somethings face down then pressure it down. So the more they push S/D outside of burst the possibility of it being abstracted more from the game. As it was after the Tactical nerf haste was a good way of leveraging it, and now post-haste to burst you put usage on flanking strike to bridge an otherwise significant damage gap or you can try relying on allies to make up for your damage by setting them up with CC. Now they’re changing flanking strike.

However to answer your before question “why give something without burst, means against bunkers”. Because it makes sense, thieves role as gankers taking out generally the squishy and the weak, Bunkers are neither of those. So a thief that can put bunkers into a situation to allow for either gankers to finish off or for him to take down himself makes sense. Unless we’re going to change Heartseeker to Guardianseeker. 3x more damage if you hit a guardian. Hopefully the FS change works out, based on how they said I think there has to be other changes slipped into this patch that just weren’t covered.

ensoriki.5789:

I didn’t say anything contrary to that. Pressure isn’t valued well in GW2 because of the score ticking constantly. Similarly in pve you rather roll somethings face down then pressure it down. So the more they push S/D outside of burst the possibility of it being abstracted more from the game. As it was after the Tactical nerf haste was a good way of leveraging it, and now post-haste to burst you put usage on flanking strike to bridge an otherwise significant damage gap or you can try relying on allies to make up for your damage by setting them up with CC. Now they’re changing flanking strike.

However to answer your before question “why give something without burst, means against bunkers”. Because it makes sense, thieves role as gankers taking out generally the squishy and the weak, Bunkers are neither of those. So a thief that can put bunkers into a situation to allow for either gankers to finish off or for him to take down himself makes sense. Unless we’re going to change Heartseeker to Guardianseeker. 3x more damage if you hit a guardian. Hopefully the FS change works out, based on how they said I think there has to be other changes slipped into this patch that just weren’t covered.

i agree… i dont think they wanted to say too much lol… i mean cmon…u think 1 boon steal on a weapon that is pretty much broken and crappy will help us live longer or be more productive for our groups/guilds/zergs? cmon yeah right…..they have to hav added more especially with the mug nerf….sorry its a nerf….healing isnt what we do so 2k wont help . maybe 5k but 2k is useless :P people hit is for 2k bc we are so squishy….basically gave us 1 free aegis on the next decent hit……pfft

Well I’m not seeing myself playing with a S/D weapon set nor am I seeing a thief with that setup taking me down ever! It is very slow, vulnerable and almost harmless.
On a thief vs thief perspective ofc.

I’m no futurologist but its not hard to predict that this changes will not be enough to make the S/D viable for competitive pvp nor any other aspect of the game tbh…

volrath wrong. s/d can play agsint d/p anytime. its a draw if both are played right. d/p is actually more vulnerable bc of aoe and also bc it has to stay and cross the black powder shot base area. just hop in that and they are screwed. s/d is just as good as d/p just in different ways. i do agree teh auto attack needs to be about 15 to 20% faster to be totally usable/like-able.

Volrath.1473:

Well I’m not seeing myself playing with a S/D weapon set nor am I seeing a thief with that setup taking me down ever! It is very slow, vulnerable and almost harmless.
On a thief vs thief perspective ofc.

I’m no futurologist but its not hard to predict that this changes will not be enough to make the S/D viable for competitive pvp nor any other aspect of the game tbh…

there ya go bud 2 v 1s a d/p thief and another d/p thief……guess he got lucky? he does use d/p as 2ndary as do i….but he did use s/d mostly.

@OP I think the cost is splited, no way you’re wasting 6 or 7 initiative like you said on the whole process.

And 2 separate presses would be great. It helps making the skill better, the first one is the defensive positioning (which they say have been imrpoved). Now the second strike most times missed or was dodged, now you can decide when to use it.

You could even press 3, press 2 to paralyze him, and then press 3 so he can’t avoid you from stealing the boons.

About the boons, my guess is that the priority will be the “strongest” one. They made the example of the opponent having 20 stacks of might and you stealing them. It’s possible that there is like a priority table, that makes X stacks of might a top priority, and decrease its priority against boons like Protection if the stacks are lower or if Protection lasts too long. It might simply be random, IDK.

@ Travlane.5948
Are you saying you don’t use short bow?

The video shows clearly how bad S/D is! In every single fight he has to swamp to D/P to finish the fight. The ranger fight, wile with S/D he barely scratches the ranger, when he swamps to D/P the ranger is at 100% health!

Lokheit.7943:

@OP I think the cost is splited, no way you’re wasting 6 or 7 initiative like you said on the whole process.

And 2 separate presses would be great. It helps making the skill better, the first one is the defensive positioning (which they say have been imrpoved). Now the second strike most times missed or was dodged, now you can decide when to use it.

You could even press 3, press 2 to paralyze him, and then press 3 so he can’t avoid you from stealing the boons.

About the boons, my guess is that the priority will be the “strongest” one. They made the example of the opponent having 20 stacks of might and you stealing them. It’s possible that there is like a priority table, that makes X stacks of might a top priority, and decrease its priority against boons like Protection if the stacks are lower or if Protection lasts too long. It might simply be random, IDK.

I’m pretty sure it works similar to how it did in Guild Wars 1.
Boons and conditions are stripped in the order they were applied, starting with the most recent one. Any time you refresh or add a stack to one, it gets placed back at the top of the list as the most recently applied.
Boons that get constant stacks added to them will actually be the easiest to steal, because they’re constantly moving to the top.