Guild Wars 2

(Grand Master Trait.) Double Tap:

Several Ranged Attacks now fire Twice, this does not effect the refire rate.
¹ (Vital Shot.) – Fires two Vital Shots.
² (Body Shot.) – Fires two Body Shots.
³ (Head Shot.) – Fires two Head Shots.
(optional.) ⁴ (Trick Shot.) – Fires two Trick Shots.

Animation:
(If you have one pistol equipped, you will fire one of them twice, if you have two pistols equipped it will fire the first one, then twice to fire the other.)

Originally I thought this idea was overpowered, but pistol damage is quite horrible, and it does not look like they are going to fix the refire rate for quite awile.

Daecollo.9578:

(Master Trait.) Double Tap:

Several Pistol Attacks now fire Twice, this does not effect the refire rate.
¹ (Vital Shot.) – Fires two Vital Shots.
² (Body Shot.) – Fires two Body Shots.
³ (Head Shot.) – Fires two Head Shots.
⁴ (Black Powder.) – Fires two Black Powder Shots.
(optional.) ⁵ (Trick Shot.) – Fires two Trick Shots.

Animation:
(If you have one pistol equipped, you will fire one of them twice, if you have two pistols equipped it will fire the first one, then twice to fire the other.)

Originally I thought this idea was overpowered, but pistol damage is quite horrible, and it does not look like they are going to fix the refire rate for quite awile.

Its OP.
In a power build, vital can easily crit for 1.2K, with double tap it would be 2.4K, tooooo much for a auto that would also apply 2 bleeds. From 900 units away. Also, crit procs. In www, omnom ghosts with this would eliminate the need for heals, as firing from afar its easy. And lets not forget the trait initial strike (IX in trickery), that would become a 14% chance to gain one initiative with a ranged attack. Thats just from the top of my hat. There is definetely more considerations.

Eduardo.4675:

Daecollo.9578:

(Master Trait.) Double Tap:

Several Pistol Attacks now fire Twice, this does not effect the refire rate.
¹ (Vital Shot.) – Fires two Vital Shots.
² (Body Shot.) – Fires two Body Shots.
³ (Head Shot.) – Fires two Head Shots.
⁴ (Black Powder.) – Fires two Black Powder Shots.
(optional.) ⁵ (Trick Shot.) – Fires two Trick Shots.

Animation:
(If you have one pistol equipped, you will fire one of them twice, if you have two pistols equipped it will fire the first one, then twice to fire the other.)

Originally I thought this idea was overpowered, but pistol damage is quite horrible, and it does not look like they are going to fix the refire rate for quite awile.

Its OP.
In a power build, vital can easily crit for 1.2K, with double tap it would be 2.4K, tooooo much for a auto that would also apply 2 bleeds. From 900 units away. Also, crit procs. In www, omnom ghosts with this would eliminate the need for heals, as firing from afar its easy. And lets not forget the trait initial strike (IX in trickery), that would become a 14% chance to gain one initiative with a ranged attack. Thats just from the top of my hat. There is definetely more considerations.

So? you would have to sacrifice traits for it, and pistol damage is horrible, 1.2k if you have full BERSERKER gear, in full knights sword autoattack hits for 2k, in full zerker it hits for 3-4k.

It would fix Vital Shot, Body Shot, and Head Shot all at once.

And those traits deserve a buff anyways, they were meant to be powerful.

…. And with the Omnom Ghost thing, Unload hits 8 times, I am sure that beats 2 attacks by a lot. … I could name off many other examples and make that sound stupid, but I am not going to bother.

Unlike other classes, Pistol Attacks are not AOE, nore do they pierce. They should have significant higher base damage or traits to compensate.

You might wanna tone it down a bit. How about a grandmaster trait along the lines of pistol shots pierce. Nothing else, just that. Sounds perfect right?

Penguin.5197:

You might wanna tone it down a bit. How about a grandmaster trait along the lines of pistol shots pierce. Nothing else, just that. Sounds perfect right?

Engineer Pistol attacks pierce, explode, and they do more damage AND they fire faster and can be traited to bounce, pierce and have more range.

Thief Pistols are single target only, unless you spend 20 points into condition tree to make them have a small chance to bounce. (Which is a waste of points, because its completely random and all it does is pull unintended aggro, and its only 1 bounce as well…)

Daecollo.9578:

Eduardo.4675:

Daecollo.9578:

(Master Trait.) Double Tap:

Several Pistol Attacks now fire Twice, this does not effect the refire rate.
¹ (Vital Shot.) – Fires two Vital Shots.
² (Body Shot.) – Fires two Body Shots.
³ (Head Shot.) – Fires two Head Shots.
⁴ (Black Powder.) – Fires two Black Powder Shots.
(optional.) ⁵ (Trick Shot.) – Fires two Trick Shots.

Animation:
(If you have one pistol equipped, you will fire one of them twice, if you have two pistols equipped it will fire the first one, then twice to fire the other.)

Originally I thought this idea was overpowered, but pistol damage is quite horrible, and it does not look like they are going to fix the refire rate for quite awile.

Its OP.
In a power build, vital can easily crit for 1.2K, with double tap it would be 2.4K, tooooo much for a auto that would also apply 2 bleeds. From 900 units away. Also, crit procs. In www, omnom ghosts with this would eliminate the need for heals, as firing from afar its easy. And lets not forget the trait initial strike (IX in trickery), that would become a 14% chance to gain one initiative with a ranged attack. Thats just from the top of my hat. There is definetely more considerations.

So? you would have to sacrifice traits for it, and pistol damage is horrible, 1.2k if you have full BERSERKER gear, in full knights sword autoattack hits for 2k, in full zerker it hits for 3-4k.

It would fix Vital Shot, Body Shot, and Head Shot all at once.

And those traits deserve a buff anyways, they were meant to be powerful.

…. And with the Omnom Ghost thing, Unload hits 8 times, I am sure that beats 2 attacks by a lot. … I could name off many other examples and make that sound stupid, but I am not going to bother.

Unlike other classes, Pistol Attacks are not AOE, nore do they pierce. They should have significant higher base damage or traits to compensate.

Nope. Sword is a melee weapon. A real melee weapon, not as a melee weapon like d/d eles, which fire from 300 units away. Sword is 130 units. And its slow, its auto chain takes 2.4 secs to complete, you have a lot of trouble landing those, hence the higher dmg. Plus, ur auto #s for zerker sword autos are unrealistic, tone them down. Only the last hit can hit like that, and in a very very glass build. As for Unload, its a 5 initiative skill, not a zero initiative skill. And in a condition build there is no trait sacrifice, all of them go 20 anyway in trickery.

Eduardo.4675:

Daecollo.9578:

Eduardo.4675:

Daecollo.9578:

(Master Trait.) Double Tap:

Several Pistol Attacks now fire Twice, this does not effect the refire rate.
¹ (Vital Shot.) – Fires two Vital Shots.
² (Body Shot.) – Fires two Body Shots.
³ (Head Shot.) – Fires two Head Shots.
⁴ (Black Powder.) – Fires two Black Powder Shots.
(optional.) ⁵ (Trick Shot.) – Fires two Trick Shots.

Animation:
(If you have one pistol equipped, you will fire one of them twice, if you have two pistols equipped it will fire the first one, then twice to fire the other.)

Originally I thought this idea was overpowered, but pistol damage is quite horrible, and it does not look like they are going to fix the refire rate for quite awile.

Its OP.
In a power build, vital can easily crit for 1.2K, with double tap it would be 2.4K, tooooo much for a auto that would also apply 2 bleeds. From 900 units away. Also, crit procs. In www, omnom ghosts with this would eliminate the need for heals, as firing from afar its easy. And lets not forget the trait initial strike (IX in trickery), that would become a 14% chance to gain one initiative with a ranged attack. Thats just from the top of my hat. There is definetely more considerations.

So? you would have to sacrifice traits for it, and pistol damage is horrible, 1.2k if you have full BERSERKER gear, in full knights sword autoattack hits for 2k, in full zerker it hits for 3-4k.

It would fix Vital Shot, Body Shot, and Head Shot all at once.

And those traits deserve a buff anyways, they were meant to be powerful.

…. And with the Omnom Ghost thing, Unload hits 8 times, I am sure that beats 2 attacks by a lot. … I could name off many other examples and make that sound stupid, but I am not going to bother.

Unlike other classes, Pistol Attacks are not AOE, nore do they pierce. They should have significant higher base damage or traits to compensate.

Nope. Sword is a melee weapon. A real melee weapon, not as a melee weapon like d/d eles, which fire from 300 units away. Sword is 130 units. And its slow, its auto chain takes 2.4 secs to complete, you have a lot of trouble landing those, hence the higher dmg. Plus, ur auto #s for zerker sword autos are unrealistic, tone them down. Only the last hit can hit like that, and in a very very glass build. As for Unload, its a 5 initiative skill, not a zero initiative skill. And in a condition build there is no trait sacrifice, all of them go 20 anyway in trickery.

We’re thieves, we have more gap closers then any other class in the game, Pistols attack slower then the sword chain does, I can get 1-2-3 on my sword chain faster then firing 3 Vital Shots.

All Thief Weapons are ranged, Daggers have Heartseeker and sword has Infiltrator’s Strike.

Claiming that Pistol is only a condition damage weapon shows a bit of incompetence, since it has a trait that increases its base damage, its intended to be a power OR condition damage weapon, much like Dagger is, since Dagger has poison on its Autoattack.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge (A 1,200 Ranged “1” Attack that fires 3 times, and does twice as much damage as pistol autoattack untraited with more range.)

Adding all the traits is an impossibility, there is no 30/30/30/30/30 build, you either have to have conditions or power, and theres several things you absolutely “need” for both, a Condition Pistol Thief would want lots of Stealth Traits, while a Power Pistol Thief would want lots of Precision/Critical Damage.

Daecollo.9578:

Penguin.5197:

You might wanna tone it down a bit. How about a grandmaster trait along the lines of pistol shots pierce. Nothing else, just that. Sounds perfect right?

Engineer Pistol attacks pierce, explode, and they do more damage AND they fire faster and can be traited to bounce, pierce and have more range.

Thief Pistols are single target only, unless you spend 20 points into condition tree to make them have a small chance to bounce. (Which is a waste of points, because its completely random and all it does is pull unintended aggro, and its only 1 bounce as well…)

What? No one was talking about engies, whatever gave you that idea lol :P
Anyways when comparing Vital shot base stats to Explosive shot, Vital shot is significantly more powerful due to its single target nature. Higher base damage plus a bleed that lasts four seconds, while explosive shot only lasts half as much at 2. They also shoot at the same rate at 1/2 a sec (Although yes both shoot somewhat slower due to their animation speeds).
Since grandmaster traits are supposed to be powerful I could see it affecting a skill like body shot but not every single weapon skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vital_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Shot

“claiming that pistol is only a condition, bla bla, … shows incompetence, yada yada”
Chillax. No need for that, man. Almost insulting coz of diference of opinions? Calm down.
Where did i say that pistol is only a condition set? I just presented one possibility, condition builds, where there is no trait sacrifice (in regards to trait IX in trickery, which i believe ist what you meant by sacrifice).
Also, I tested all activation speeds with all thief skills, autos from pistol land in 0.75/0.8 secs, full auto from sword takes 2.4/2.5 to land, its definetely NOT faster. Plus, its melee, chase them down and then hit. Pistols you just whack away. Dont read skills descriptions, tooltips sometimes get it wrong. I made those tests for a thread in guru for a guy a while ago, it was done using inbuilt cronographer from G13. That thread was then posted here, too, for a DPS thread.

Penguin.5197:

Daecollo.9578:

Penguin.5197:

You might wanna tone it down a bit. How about a grandmaster trait along the lines of pistol shots pierce. Nothing else, just that. Sounds perfect right?

Engineer Pistol attacks pierce, explode, and they do more damage AND they fire faster and can be traited to bounce, pierce and have more range.

Thief Pistols are single target only, unless you spend 20 points into condition tree to make them have a small chance to bounce. (Which is a waste of points, because its completely random and all it does is pull unintended aggro, and its only 1 bounce as well…)

What? No one was talking about engies, whatever gave you that idea lol :P
Anyways when comparing Vital shot base stats to Explosive shot, Vital shot is significantly more powerful due to its single target nature. Higher base damage plus a bleed that lasts four seconds, while explosive shot only lasts half as much at 2. They also shoot at the same rate at 1/2 a sec (Although yes both shoot somewhat slower due to their animation speeds).
Since grandmaster traits are supposed to be powerful I could see it affecting a skill like body shot but not every single weapon skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vital_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Shot

Main-hand
Hair Trigger – Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
Rifled Barrels – Improves rifle, pistol, harpoon gun, and elixir gun range.
Coated Bullets – Pistol shots pierce.

If a engineer pistol attack pierces and hits 2-3 more targets, it can hit 2-3 times and explode hitting the targets again and again, and causing them to bleed as well.

Engineer pistol attacks also have longer range and can hit up to 5 targets, and if it pierces and hits another target, it will hit all those targets 5 times again, it is VERY powerful in pve/pvp. (especially in zergs vs zergs or fractals.)

It can be up to 590 damage x how many targets it pieces and hits.

Eduardo.4675:

“claiming that pistol is only a condition, bla bla, … shows incompetence, yada yada”
Chillax. No need for that, man. Almost insulting coz of diference of opinions? Calm down.
Where did i say that pistol is only a condition set? I just presented one possibility, condition builds, where there is no trait sacrifice (in regards to trait IX in trickery, which i believe ist what you meant by sacrifice).
Also, I tested all activation speeds with all thief skills, autos from pistol land in 0.75/0.8 secs, full auto from sword takes 2.4/2.5 to land, its definetely NOT faster. Plus, its melee, chase them down and then hit. Pistols you just whack away. Dont read skills descriptions, tooltips sometimes get it wrong. I made those tests for a thread in guru for a guy a while ago, it was done using inbuilt cronographer from G13. That thread was then posted here, too, for a DPS thread.

Thieves have multiple gap closers and a sword thief never has to chase anyone down due to infiltrator’s strike and steal, Pistol thieves have a harder time chasing targets down then a sword thief does, and pistol thieves don’t even have any abilities that snare or cripple like a lot of other ranged weapons do. (less you count our broken trait.)

Melee bruisers allways have to chase down their prey. I dont care about IA, or steal, thats a one use gap closer only, not a permanent, like higher movement speed than your opponent or cripple, both of which would glue you to your target. You need to guarantee this gluing to get that result. Everyone kites away. You can gapclose, land a few hits, but then they run. Pistoleer have a loss less trouble hiting me than a melee. Warriors are easy prey to me coz of this, if they start bruising me, i kite. Its their bane against ALL profs, btw. They have gap closers too. But after one use, i kite. As all do. Ask them.
You have never chased down an ele, if you think sword its a guaranteed “no chaser”. Or a thief, for that matter. Or a engie. Or any class with perma swiftness. SoS is noticeably slower than swiftness. Do you know whats the best way to kill a thief in www? its ranged chanel skills, they dont chase (no need, it fires from afar), and the channel goes through stealth. Dual pistol thieves are now on the rise coz of this. To fight other thieves. I know, ive seen them a lot.
And btw, s/d is my main set, and by a large margin my favourite. But i know its limitations. And i know that they have a slower activation time than vital shot.

Eduardo.4675:

Melee bruisers allways have to chase down their prey. I dont care about IA, or steal, thats a one use gap closer only, not a permanent, like higher movement speed than your opponent or cripple, both of which would glue you to your target. You need to guarantee this gluing to get that result. Everyone kites away. You can gapclose, land a few hits, but then they run. Pistoleer have a loss less trouble hiting me than a melee. Warriors are easy prey to me coz of this, if they start bruising me, i kite. Its their bane against ALL profs, btw. They have gap closers too. But after one use, i kite. As all do. Ask them.
You have never chased down an ele, if you think sword its a guaranteed “no chaser”. Or a thief, for that matter. Or a engie. Or any class with perma swiftness. SoS is noticeably slower than swiftness. Do you know whats the best way to kill a thief in www? its ranged chanel skills, they dont chase (no need, it fires from afar), and the channel goes through stealth. Dual pistol thieves are now on the rise coz of this. To fight other thieves. I know, ive seen them a lot.
And btw, s/d is my main set, and by a large margin my favourite. But i know its limitations. And i know that they have a slower activation time than vital shot.

I actually play a warrior, and pistol thieves are an absolute joke unless they are D/P stealth users, I just run at them and autoattack, they dodge twice and then die, because they have no cripple or snare to stop my rush, and there damage and conditions are pitiful, Black Powder can simply be moved out of and costs half there initiative to use.

Grandmaster trait so what?
Where does the trait go?
If you put it in DA who cares? As if panic strike and residual venoms were important.
If you put it in CS, Hidden killer sucks for P/ thieves anyways so it’s between that and executioner. You won’t be losing much damage at all by choosing this instead since it doubles the power of your 1 & 2 and possibly 4 if you go /P. In other words vs executioner it’s a 2x boost vs 20% boost to slots 1,2 and 4 & 5. Unload get’s used less since Body shot will deal such abhorrent damage meaning you can save ini quite easily while just pounding people. You’d probably take this trait over executioner. 4/5 of your attacks doubled vs a global 20% that basically just means your number 3 doesn’t get neglected as if it’ll matter in the grand scheme lol nope.
Can put it in Shadow arts, maybe the best trade of, since now you have to minimize maximum damage. Problem being that it essentially means even being bulky you hit bloody hard, so it’s favourable for anything bar a P/D troll spec though Shadow Protector can make up for that as well.

In acrobatics? Hard to catch isn’t getting run anyways so it’s this and quick pockets. Your auto attack doing 2x damage means you don’t need your ini skills as attacks as much, generally meaning you’ll spend less ini to begin with so it’s generally a better investment as well.

Finally you can put it in tricker which isn’t much of a choice at all. Lol, 2 traits with relative CD’s for a 1s daze or 4 ini, or put out 2x damage in the time it takes for those to recharge. Lol no thanks. Brb bleed spec that applies 2 stacks of bleed on auto attack. Doubling it’s damage as well.

The trait is redonculus.

Figure in sigils like fire/air putting up an additional 2+k on your shot. Depending on where this trait would be put you can easily get a flippin 6k auto attack that drops 2 stacks of bleeding on top to boot, and can be combo’d with this headshot which will do 1k ez to stall before launching another 2-3k auto attack. 10k dmg ezpz Costed me 4 ini. If I get screwed I’ll hit BP.

Pistols can already hit hard, anyone who says they want to sit and eat 3 unloads is full of it or bulk speccing. I just know whenever I see a P/P thief that outside of that they have no defenses and have to weapon swap or die. Call me when you address P/P’s lack of mobility, stealth, and evade, 3 common staples of the thief and not 1 of the 3 exists on the set. Brb just upping the damage until it’s balanced by sheer in-ability to ignore redonculus damage. Just mean’s I’ll pick you up and daze/spike you ezpz lemon squeeze since you have the absolute worst defense of all thief sets.

ensoriki.5789:

Grandmaster trait so what?
Where does the trait go?
If you put it in DA who cares? As if panic strike and residual venoms were important.
If you put it in CS, Hidden killer sucks for P/ thieves anyways so it’s between that and executioner. You won’t be losing much damage at all by choosing this instead since it doubles the power of your 1 & 2 and possibly 4 if you go /P. In other words vs executioner it’s a 2x boost vs 20% boost to slots 1,2 and 4 & 5. Unload get’s used less since Body shot will deal such abhorrent damage meaning you can save ini quite easily while just pounding people. You’d probably take this trait over executioner. 4/5 of your attacks doubled vs a global 20% that basically just means your number 3 doesn’t get neglected as if it’ll matter in the grand scheme lol nope.
Can put it in Shadow arts, maybe the best trade of, since now you have to minimize maximum damage. Problem being that it essentially means even being bulky you hit bloody hard, so it’s favourable for anything bar a P/D troll spec though Shadow Protector can make up for that as well.

In acrobatics? Hard to catch isn’t getting run anyways so it’s this and quick pockets. Your auto attack doing 2x damage means you don’t need your ini skills as attacks as much, generally meaning you’ll spend less ini to begin with so it’s generally a better investment as well.

Finally you can put it in tricker which isn’t much of a choice at all. Lol, 2 traits with relative CD’s for a 1s daze or 4 ini, or put out 2x damage in the time it takes for those to recharge. Lol no thanks.

This trait is redonculus.

It could work well in acrobatics, since its a feat of quickness and finesse rather then power or striking or trickery, I mean firing your weapon twice sounds very subtle anyways. (Condition damage pistol users and Power Damage Pistol users both like to dip in this tree, so it benefits them both almost equally.)

Putting it in Shadow Arts would benefit P/D Thieves way too much.
Putting it in Critical Strikes would benefit P/P Thieves way too much.
Putting it in Acrobatics would make sense, and benefit both of them equally, because they would have to both sacrifice 30 points to aquire it.

Condition Thieves would have to take 30 in acrobatics and atleast 20 in trickery. While Power Thieves would take 30 in acrobatics and atleast 20 in critical strikes. I guess you could do both, but it would be very tricky. I would probably only go one way or the other.

No. I just quick hopped into the mist.
10/30/30 spec, made no changes from my melee spec.
Dropped in a pistol no trait changes took me about 11s counting in my head (obv fallible). With an air sigil and accuracy. Swapped to my sword, took me 6s with a flame sigil and the same sigil of accuracy. So if I take my 30 in SA into Acrobatics. All that changes as a P/P is that I go from 11s to about 6s (lets round up for my inaccuracy) or the same as my sword. From 900 range. Naturally time fluctuates between both based on crit activations.
Again you’re doubling your power… Assuming haste I’d probably get it down to 3s to kill from my pistol auto attack but assuming my bleeds are important, maybe 4/5.
The trait is ridiculously powerful brah that’s all there is to it.
For basically little relevant change in a build I double my output. Not as bad as if you put it in Deadly arts but obviously relevant. I think it is far too much. Probably would look even better if I put in that pistol trait to up it 10%. Or to put it in other words, I’d now have to think how this would compare of 10/30/0/30 vs a 25/30/0/0/15 build for instance and I think this would edge out though I’m not doing the math.

I still believe Pistols main issue is that it’s a defensive (as in no defense) duck and body shot not holding it’s weight.

ensoriki.5789:

No. I just quick hopped into the mist.
10/30/30 spec, made no changes from my melee spec.
Dropped in a pistol no trait changes took me about 11s counting in my head (obv fallible). With an air sigil and accuracy. Swapped to my sword, took me 6s with a flame sigil and the same sigil of accuracy. So if I take my 30 in SA into Acrobatics. All that changes as a P/P is that I go from 11s to about 6s (lets round up for my inaccuracy) or the same as my sword. From 900 range. Naturally time fluctuates between both based on crit activations.
Again you’re doubling your power… Assuming haste I’d probably get it down to 3s to kill from my pistol auto attack but assuming my bleeds are important, maybe 4/5.
The trait is ridiculously powerful brah that’s all there is to it.
For basically little relevant change in a build I double my output. Not as bad as if you put it in Deadly arts but obviously relevant. I think it is far too much. Probably would look even better if I put in that pistol trait to up it 10%. Or to put it in other words, I’d now have to think how this would compare of 10/30/0/30 vs a 25/30/0/0/15 build for instance and I think this would edge out though I’m not doing the math.

I still believe Pistols main issue is that it’s a defensive duck and body shot not holding it’s weight. If I see a P/P thief, I already know it’s not like they’re going to Shadow return behind cover, or HS the hell away, or Evade some attacks or whatever. They’re just going to eat whatever I give em till they weapon swap or pop a utility.

Yeah, they wouldn’t waste there ability to get away, and P/P isn’t as initiative reliant as D/D, D/P, they have to use initiative to damage, they can’t just CnD and Backstab or Quick Attack.

Vital Shot and Body Shot are both horrible moves. (The reason I said head shot as well, was because it could get rid of 2 stacks of the fractal bosses stun moves instead of one, and increase the stun to 0.5 seconds from 0.25.)

I mean, assuming we are both thieves, we “Must have.” Shadowstep/Signet of Shadows on our bar.

Think about it though, is double tap really considered a “deadly art?” and putting it in deadly arts would greatly favor the critical strikes user, because of all the % damage traits.

Vital Shot may indeed apply 2 bleeds, but then again, Warrior Rifle has a chance to do the same with no traits and there bleeds last twice as long as Pistols (and then a +50% Bleeding Duration Minor trait.). Along with a chance to pierce (and bleed even more targets.) connected with higher base damage and range.

It makes little sense to look at the warriors rifle. Warriors are supposed to hit harder from the get-go. Looking at what you are naturally supposed to be inferior to, to debate your inferiority just doesn’t make sense to me.
That being said I mentioned DA simply for the significance of where a trait goes effecting how outrageous it can be.

ensoriki.5789:

It makes no sense to look at the warriors rifle. Warriors are supposed to hit harder from the get-go. Looking at what you are naturally supposed to be inferior to, to debate your inferiority just doesn’t make sense to me.
That being said I mentioned DA simply for the significance of where a trait goes effecting how outrageous it can be.

That just goes to show you how outrageously underpowered P/P is in the long run, its an absolute joke and this trait is balanced around the fact its a master trait and it makes several builds more viable.

All P/P has is Unload, which is nice until you run out of Initiative, giving them Double Tap would make them do decent damage outside and make them a threat they were meant to be, They do not have the gap closers or snares or anything to make people get away from them like other range classes do, nore do they stealth. Nore do they have clones or blinks. They also lack the range as well (this is a pretty big deal…)

Daecollo.9578:

I actually play a warrior, and pistol thieves are an absolute joke unless they are D/P stealth users, I just run at them and autoattack, they dodge twice and then die, because they have no cripple or snare to stop my rush, and there damage and conditions are pitiful, Black Powder can simply be moved out of and costs half there initiative to use.

Dagger offhand has a cripple, and P/D has an instant shadowstep away in melee range. Against who have you been playing?

Oxygen.5918:

Daecollo.9578:

I actually play a warrior, and pistol thieves are an absolute joke unless they are D/P stealth users, I just run at them and autoattack, they dodge twice and then die, because they have no cripple or snare to stop my rush, and there damage and conditions are pitiful, Black Powder can simply be moved out of and costs half there initiative to use.

Dagger offhand has a cripple, and P/D has an instant shadowstep away in melee range. Against who have you been playing?

“unless they are D/P stealth users”

When I read the subject, I thought doubletap was going to be related to “putting two in the skull” of someone in downed state to quickly mop them up. That would be awesome! It would make p/p as useful at finishing off people with X/d.

Thank you have a nice day.

Woaden.9425:

When I read the subject, I thought doubletap was going to be related to “putting two in the skull” of someone in downed state to quickly mop them up. That would be awesome! It would make p/p as useful at finishing off people with X/d.

Thank you have a nice day.

No, now P/P might have a chance to do more damage then what the enemy heals for!

I wonder how many times the devs face palm when they read these forums.

Blacksarevok.8104:

I wonder how many times the devs face palm when they read these forums.

No kidding. And after they read this thread more they facepalmed and slammer thier head into desk seeing a Thief try and justify anything by saying a Eng skill is more powerful. People have hard time putting everything together and seeing a thief is a lot better off in whole than Eng is. Otherwise why is Eng least player profession in WvW by a long shoot.

Moddo.7105:

Blacksarevok.8104:

I wonder how many times the devs face palm when they read these forums.

No kidding. And after they read this thread more they facepalmed and slammer thier head into desk seeing a Thief try and justify anything by saying a Eng skill is more powerful. People have hard time putting everything together and seeing a thief is a lot better off in whole than Eng is. Otherwise why is Eng least player profession in WvW by a long shoot.

Engineer is not a bad profession in WvWvW, in fact it is one of the best professions for siege and holding off foes.

Your reply gave no feedback on how my idea was OP or UP.

Your reply is also very hard to read, it has a lot of misspelling and I could very easily take it as an insult, which is kind of insulting because its hard to read.

What more is there to say?
You want P/P to do double its current damage via a trait.

Does. Not. Compute.
Double.
Not 20%. not 10% more. Flipping Double damage.

ensoriki.5789:

What more is there to say?
You want P/P to do double its current damage via a trait.

Does. Not. Compute.
Double.
Not 20%. not 10% more. Flipping Double damage.

It only effects Body Shot/Vital Shot/Head Shot.

Which all need buffs (significant ones.)

This thread is a gem.

Daecollo, why so agressive?

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

What more is there to say?
You want P/P to do double its current damage via a trait.

Does. Not. Compute.
Double.
Not 20%. not 10% more. Flipping Double damage.

It only effects Body Shot/Vital Shot/Head Shot.

Which all need buffs (significant ones.)

How can you say only when that’s the majority of the bar…
lolz.

ensoriki.5789:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

What more is there to say?
You want P/P to do double its current damage via a trait.

Does. Not. Compute.
Double.
Not 20%. not 10% more. Flipping Double damage.

It only effects Body Shot/Vital Shot/Head Shot.

Which all need buffs (significant ones.)

How can you say only when that’s the majority of the bar…
lolz.

It only effects abilities that fire once and do one thing.

The OP’s idea is good, but what if it only duplicates the effect, not the damage? So vulnerability is stacked 10 at a time instead of 5, i’m thinking that this may still be too powerful though.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

The OP’s idea is good, but what if it only duplicates the effect, not the damage? So vulnerability is stacked 10 at a time instead of 5, i’m thinking that this may still be too powerful though.

The damage is whats lousy, not the effects.

Vital Shot needs a speed increase, but putting a trait to make all pistol attacks shoot twice is completly unnecesary (and it would force all Pistol users to invest on that tree) when it can be solved changing the aftercast of pistol shots that is what makes them so slow.

And then with your sugestion, Body Shot becomes far too powerful. Think about this, 6 Initiative and suddenly you get 20 Vulnerability (nearly the max amount, which is supposed to be applied by multiple players on dynamic events) on your opponent.

Aditionally, double headshot is a total waste as daze doesn’t stack (this is why Mesmers try to use melee and ranged clones so the ranged ones apply daze seconds after the melee ones when using the dazing shatter), so basically you’re interupting twice… only that the second shot isn’t interrupting anything the first one didn’t first.

Body Shot needs a buff (probably adding another condition like cripple or weakness should solve it), Headshot needs another buff too (confusion maybe? I don’t know) to see more use and Vital Shot needs a speed buff, but there is no need to make a GM trait to duplicate the effect of all your shots.

PS: About the animation part, it’s not gonna happen, this isn’t the way the game works for that kind of stuff.

Moddo.7105:

Blacksarevok.8104:

I wonder how many times the devs face palm when they read these forums.

No kidding. And after they read this thread more they facepalmed and slammer thier head into desk seeing a Thief try and justify anything by saying a Eng skill is more powerful. People have hard time putting everything together and seeing a thief is a lot better off in whole than Eng is. Otherwise why is Eng least player profession in WvW by a long shoot.

I’d probably kill to get the Thief Pistol skills, all of them.