Guild Wars 2

It’s one thing for Stealth to no longer remove ALL threat….
but KEEPING all of the threat?
I run a backstab based build based on might gain and Cloak and Dagger for pve,considering Pistol Whip spamming was pathetic since i kept getting all the aggro in the first place and got my skull bashed in,and condition damage is no where near viable for the amount of mobility lost for it from Death Blossom,and now i can’t even make use of Cloak and Dagger/Backstab because whenever i do,the target is nearly always facing me…..
this update was completely foolish,since you Stealth to get away,after having too much aggro,or at least get behind the target to get Backstab to do anything…
anyone else see any other reason this is ridiculous or having the same problem?

I feel like I’m constantly the focus target for the AI now. I ran a fractals and 3 explorables and I’m always the one being attacked now. Might just be me, but I don’t remember it being this tough.

Can you clarify please…are you saying that the NPC continues to face you even if you circle around it while stealthed?

no,i am saying that i usually run behind the target,Cloak and Dagger,Backstab,then i end up racking up too much aggro that it’s always attacking me,so i Cloak and Dagger again,then it WAITS to turn around,so i either end up sitting there,at a loss of dps,or i could run behind it,for it to turn around again because it was already facing me,or i activate Backstab immediately like i used to,and just cause it to sacrifice half its damage,and along with that,after i hit Backstab,it’ll turn right back to me to eat my face off as usual,it’s not being very sneaky or stealthy if i can’t lose the threat….
and it’s definitely not being useful to the group to stealth and run around for a few seconds while someone else takes aggro

Revyri.3487:

I feel like I’m constantly the focus target for the AI now. I ran a fractals and 3 explorables and I’m always the one being attacked now. Might just be me, but I don’t remember it being this tough.

My issue is that if you’re getting focused in a group, stealth is a mechanic we can use to get out of a rough situation.

Additionally, when the Guardian we run with is in hot water, I throw down a Shadow Refuge or Blinding Powder for him to get back on his feat and maybe get the monsters off his back for a few seconds. If the aggro doesn’t at least drop (doesn’t have to be an aggro reset), then it entirely changes the way some of us have played Thief for the last 6 months. I’m not opposed to keeping threat, but with a full stealth, there should be SOME sort of an aggro drop.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro
Now, assuming that the High Toughness/Low Vitality causes more ‘threat’ – it would seem the Thief is naturally prone to being the focal point of attention general speaking as we are on the low end of the HP pools with Guardian & Elementalist.

This could be a potential issue for thieves being the focus of attention in dungeons when we run with Warriors, etc – as their high HP pool doesn’t always encourage toughness in their builds. So Warriors can keep stacking Berserker stats, while we have to sacrifice this to pump in more vitality.

Yes, I’m probably reading too much into this… but I love to min/max my stats, and coordinate with the group I run with. Knowing I have to sacrifice some stats to beef up my vitality because of a stealth change is a bit disheartening. Although, I’ve yet to personally test this, and is just a theory at best at this point.

“Additionally, when the Guardian we run with is in hot water, I throw down a Shadow Refuge or Blinding Powder for him to get back on his feat and maybe get the monsters off his back for a few seconds.”

but there’s the exact issue,we should be able to throw down Shadow Refuges and Blinding Powders to help out our allies,and yet they just auto attack through it,without being prepared
unless every time we announce “HAY I’M STEALTHING YOU HIT ESCAPE QUICKLY”
they would just get Revealed and end up getting all that aggro back immediatly and get attacked like nothing happened,the same issue with resurrecting as well,with at least resetting (or reducing) aggro would at least by them some time to (hopefully) recover

I dont like this particular change. we are already squishy enough as it is. When i tested, it makes fighting in groups that much more difficult and you cant escape.. when you reappear they will get back on you right away. pretty painful if you are dpsing a boss and you do the highest dps and the boss will spank you when you get out of stealth.

Also whats worse is that this makes AOEing that much more difficult as those stray mobs will come straight back to you..

What i dont get the most, is that it’s not like Thieves have it ezmode in PvE why this change that affects PvE 99% of the time?

At the very least aNet maybe should implement a new function for thieves that lets us drop aggro completely.. I will run a few more dungeons and see how much it annoys me..

Thank goodness its a F2P game i dont feel bad for leaving the game a while (if this really does annoy me that much)..

Alpha.1308:

“Additionally, when the Guardian we run with is in hot water, I throw down a Shadow Refuge or Blinding Powder for him to get back on his feat and maybe get the monsters off his back for a few seconds.”

but there’s the exact issue,we should be able to throw down Shadow Refuges and Blinding Powders to help out our allies,and yet they just auto attack through it,without being prepared
unless every time we announce “HAY I’M STEALTHING YOU HIT ESCAPE QUICKLY”
they would just get Revealed and end up getting all that aggro back immediatly and get attacked like nothing happened,the same issue with resurrecting as well,with at least resetting (or reducing) aggro would at least by them some time to (hopefully) recover

I didn’t even consider the aggro drop/rez…

This is going to be the pits now. I understand removing graveyard zerg, but fighting threat tables to rez someone? boo!

I just tried out the new changes to stealth at Orr and am very troubled by them. I main a thief and run a PvE/dungeon stealth heavy non-burst crit build. With the new stealth aggro mechanics, I cannot drop/manage mob aggro with stealth anymore or choose where and when I want to engage. The mobs are now very good at tracking me as soon as I come out of stealth and immediately attacking. They also seem to pursue me for longer distances after I emerge from stealth although I could be imaging this.

I haven’t had a chance to try stealth ressing with SR, but I am very concerned that it will no longer be effective as well. Since this was one of the better dungeon group skills, I am wondering how viable the Thief will be in dungeons post patch.

From my limited playtime, this change has really broken the stealth mechanic and one of the biggest sources of surviablity/utility to the Thief class.

stone cold.8609:

From my limited playtime, this change has really broken the stealth mechanic and one of the biggest sources of surviablity/utility to the Thief class.

I’d have to say now after playing a half day with the new mechanics, that stealth in pve is pretty much useless.

Sinsko.9342:

stone cold.8609:

From my limited playtime, this change has really broken the stealth mechanic and one of the biggest sources of surviablity/utility to the Thief class.

I’d have to say now after playing a half day with the new mechanics, that stealth in pve is pretty much useless.

Yes…..dropping aggro was my use for stealth. It is totally done now. As it was, you had a choice: time it so you do not loose aggro…or time it so you drop aggro. Not anymore; you have aggro immediately upon the end of stealth.

Played all night and….not liking it. As soon as stealth is done, they are right on you.

Feels wrong, a thief with no stealth. I love the thief but may just drop it, main another toon. PVE is my thing, and this has really borked my style. I will have to see how it goes, but this really soured me to things.

My necro is pretty fun, maybe I will stick with that. Thief feels all wrong, and much more vulnerable now.

Some may be happy with this I suppose.

Can someone clarify what they mean by resetting the aggro after stealth? My main use for shadow refuge is to remove conditions and esp rez allies in dungeons. The idea was that the mob goes to attack someone else while i revive (one of the few “utility” skills that a thief can bring to a group in dungeons, as we dont exactly have boons or heals to spread to teammates). Will that no longer be viable anymore? Will the mobs still attack us even though we are in stealth (which would SUCK), or will the just attack us the second we get out of stealth (which is workable I guess if we dodge roll and haul tail outta there)

Silver.4798:

Can someone clarify what they mean by resetting the aggro after stealth? My main use for shadow refuge is to remove conditions and esp rez allies in dungeons. The idea was that the mob goes to attack someone else while i revive (one of the few “utility” skills that a thief can bring to a group in dungeons, as we dont exactly have boons or heals to spread to teammates). Will that no longer be viable anymore? Will the mobs still attack us even though we are in stealth (which would SUCK), or will the just attack us the second we get out of stealth (which is workable I guess if we dodge roll and haul tail outta there)

it means your threat that you have generated stays on the mobs aggro table.. so.. when you destealth, if you are still the top mob will come after you..

Similarly, if you have a warrior tank who is top.. and you shadow refuge to rez them.. once the stealth is over and if the warrior is still top mob will come directly to you guys and probably spank you both..

now it is not so bad if your team mates pickup aggro in single boss fights.. but in an aoe situation.. one of the stragglers will probably re-aggro to you and kill you both.

Fantastic. Because PvE thief was just sooooo easy as it is…

To step out of the kittenin’ and whining mode for a bit, since I AM running a condition build anyway and, lets be honest, thieves aren’t bad at stacking bleeds but rangers are a tier above us in that regard (in my opinion), I’m wondering if they made poisons more viable for condition damage for thieves. I hardly (if ever) use poisons so maybe it’s time to drop some of our stealth utilities and test the poisons?

Stealth is broken now imo. Hit a yellow mob stealth, dodge and run away. It will turn back yellow and instead of turning and walking away they sit there and wait and will instantly turn red again against you when come back.

Maybe they didn’t want the thief to have the easy way out. But that is the whole point of playing with stealth. I should be able to run past things. That’s the whole point of playing a thief. My warrior has to kill everything to get those points. My thief gets to steal points without a messy fuss. At least a good thief does anyway.

Otherwise you might as well change the profession’s name. Because Steal doesn’t give me loot and now I can’t hide in the shadows and abuse the AI. Yeah I said abuse, didn’t you play Metal Gear Solid.

Silver.4798:

Fantastic. Because PvE thief was just sooooo easy as it is…

To step out of the kittenin’ and whining mode for a bit, since I AM running a condition build anyway and, lets be honest, thieves aren’t bad at stacking bleeds but rangers are a tier above us in that regard (in my opinion), I’m wondering if they made poisons more viable for condition damage for thieves. I hardly (if ever) use poisons so maybe it’s time to drop some of our stealth utilities and test the poisons?

yeah we are whining a bit,

but i dont really want to play a condition build either..

and if not the forums where?

After some thought, gonna shelve my thief. It just is not fun this way. It is not the thief anymore for me. I used stealth to escape and evade. Now, stealth is just a waste of initiatve or a cooldown, and the whiole SA tree, to get toughness, is wasted. I am not a glass cannon type.

I am gonna main another toon. Very disappointing as it is now. So, at least I have another toon I kinda like.

So, no use crying over it I suppose. Time to put my thief away and move on.

sounds like a l2p issue. other classes seem to survive pve aggro as bad or worse than this.

other classes have other skills to deal with aggro.
steal life food nerf + stealth nerf made thief a lot weaker in pve.
I really don’t think that was needed.

Columba.9730:

sounds like a l2p issue.

That’s classic coming from you.

Just replace your Berserker Gear with +% Magic Find Gear.

Aggro problems in dungeons solved.

Kyrion.2749:

Just replace your Berserker Gear with +% Magic Find Gear.

Aggro problems in dungeons solved.

i Lold, but im already in Valkyrie and MF gear.. i needs the vit..

I had the chance to play more PvE and run CoF dungeon with the new stealth aggro mechanics and this has confirmed by earlier impressions. My utility to the group has greatly decreased, especially noticiable when dungeon running. Even though it was my favorite profession and I have many hours on him, I will be putting him on the shelf and no longer be playing him.

I wish all the Thieves that were able to adapt to this change good game!

My only problem with this is that some enemies still attack you while you are completely invisible. If Anet fixes that problem with some of the mobs, then I’m completely fine with the patch.

My only Problem is Mesmer clones cann see me trough it, ranger pets wont lose aggro on me and will still runing at me, the kittenty turrent from the engi can still shoot at me even though i just stealthed to avoid aggro, Channeling skills no matter which one will still get me. So basicly my question is for what the hell is stealth good? in pve aspect the only boss i remember that would instant res back to full hp. But honestly they just could worked on the Bosses/Mobs that would just instant res rather than completly changing stealth itself.

Hell im all for less stealth and stuff but giving other classes in spvp wvw advantages just because they have minion like creatures that can still chase u is tottaly bs.

Ranger pets can’t see through stealth yet, With 50% run speed thieves are usually far away

They actually can they follow me up all the way even if port away with shadowstep and than restealth again. they will only stop following me if the ranger decides to pick another target(but why should he?)

Columba.9730:

Ranger pets can’t see through stealth yet, With 50% run speed thieves are usually far away

First of all, the 50% run speed that I’m assuming you’re talking about is the Fleet Shadow trait. There’s two problems with that: (1.) it’s in the Acrobatics line, which is one of the least-used trait lines and (2.) even in the Adept slot, it’s competing with the 50% falling damage reduction trait, the “might upon dodging” trait, the “vigor upon healing” trait, and the trap recharge reduction trait. So even when Acrobatics is used by a Thief—typically for caltrops kiting builds—that particular trait is never present. At least I have yet to see anyone use it.

If you’re talking about the passive speed on Signet of Shadows, Rangers have an equivalent speed signet, and neither signet provides a 50% speed increase.

Second, pets can’t technically “see through” stealth, but AI aggro tables no longer reset immediately upon stealth, so the pet is more hesitant to leave, and they can then regain aggro the instant that a Thief drops out of stealth. Considering that most stealth skills last only 3 seconds (another reason that Fleet Shadow is almost never used), that’s a significant advantage.

Finally, this discussion is about the PvE aggro tables, not the relationship between stealth and ranger pets. I made this post so that you would hopefully refrain from other equally baseless and unrelated comments, so please try and stay relevant.

stone cold.8609:

I just tried out the new changes to stealth at Orr and am very troubled by them. I main a thief and run a PvE/dungeon stealth heavy non-burst crit build. With the new stealth aggro mechanics, I cannot drop/manage mob aggro with stealth anymore or choose where and when I want to engage. The mobs are now very good at tracking me as soon as I come out of stealth and immediately attacking. They also seem to pursue me for longer distances after I emerge from stealth although I could be imaging this.

I haven’t had a chance to try stealth ressing with SR, but I am very concerned that it will no longer be effective as well. Since this was one of the better dungeon group skills, I am wondering how viable the Thief will be in dungeons post patch.

From my limited playtime, this change has really broken the stealth mechanic and one of the biggest sources of surviablity/utility to the Thief class.

I actually thought I was imagining it too, but I feel like resetting mobs are much faster when they latch onto me after I pop out of stealth, and from farther away. I was getting frustrated yesterday because I tried resetting a vampire bat with stealth twice (I was typing to a friend), and it kept aggroing on me again from about 30 feet away; far enough that it should completely forget I ever existed.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed that.

Hi! Please don’t start personal fights here and stay on topic.
Thanks for your understanding.

It has advantages, this afternoon I could solo the wasp soldier and most of the queen before assistance arrived. You can now stealth and get out of the way a bit and heal up without them resetting. Well, all the allied NPC’s around helped a bit as well. A while later I was going through some ogre camp and noticed a flock of them and their pets following me around, neatly bunched up, perfect targets for AoE.

I really do not get it, stealth never dropped aggro for me…unless I worked to make it do so. Which, I did. It was my use for stealth.

Been playing my necro a lot more since the patch. The “thief” just got duller and less fun, more generic, and less defined as a class for me. It is more of a duelist or something now.

Since a day after the patch, I just stopped using stealth. It is waste of resources, and a mob magnet. The aggro it generates exiting stealth, no matter how far you manage to get in stealth, negates it’s use. Well, if you like being a backstab build, it is needed, but I was never into the backstab thing.

So, I’ll probably be playing my necro a lot more now I suppose. The trait lines are a bit goofy, but it works as intended/designed basically , it feels like a necromancer. The “thief”, well, it feels like a wierd undefined pseudo class with semi functional mechanics anymore. Capable but increasingly dull.

I don’t see why they didn’t just make the mobs drop you down to the bottom of the table or at LEAST cause stealth to reduce your aggro by XX%…

I kept logging on my thief, but it is just is not the same for me. Sure, yeah, I kill stuff, it works, but it is a totally different play style for me now, and not what I was having fun doing before. It feels so very different to me, and the fun factor has decreased a lot.

I dropped stealth in pve and i’m running a condition build with magic find.
good sustained dps (less than with a proper build – MF takes a lot).
15 0 10 20 25
vigor, dodge, caltrops, poison field, and a couple of stealth just to remove conditions

Daendur.2357:

I dropped stealth in pve and i’m running a condition build with magic find.
good sustained dps (less than with a proper build – MF takes a lot).
15 0 10 20 25
vigor, dodge, caltrops, poison field, and a couple of stealth just to remove conditions

Very close to what I am looking at..I really wanted to say " forget it, the fun is just not really there anymore"…but I suppose I will try to find some enjoyment from it. It is not the sneaky thief I used to have though.

Columba.9730:

sounds like a l2 kitten ue. other classes seem to survive pve aggro as bad or worse than this.

As this odd statement appears after my post, perhaps it was intended as some sort of reply. However, considering it has absolutely nothing to do with what I mentioned concerning the stealth change, I can only assume this from the post position.

Perhaps the fault lies with me, not being explicit enough to compensate for the varying levels of intelligence (some shockingly sub par) that one inevitably encounters.
I will now try to more clearly describe my take on the change.

As I mentioned, the change has removed some fun for me. There is no decrease my ability to play the character, there is a decrease in my enjoyment. The distinction is, to me, absolutely clear. But I now see that this distinction is in fact inscrutably subtle for certain people.

Also notice that I did not say I cannot handle aggro from mobs. Yet somehow, this seems to have been construed. This may reflect a poor attempt at communicating on my part, low grade reading comprehension on the part of a reader, or obnoxious insult directed towards me.

What I did try to say, is that the fun for me with stealth was that one could ( if used correctly) learn to drop aggro with stealth. The loss of this mechanic now decreases my enjoyment.

On my necromancer, I was originally attracted to the esthetic of a dark mage with a cohort of minions. I was quickly disenchanted by this “minion master” build. It was not fun for me. However, the minions did not ultimately constitute an integral part of the actual fun for me.

I switched to a power build and found I enjoyed it quite a lot. It was not that I was unable to play the minion master; I simply had little fun with it.

Had I posted my displeasure with it, it seems you would have also had similar difficulty understanding. Again you would have said it was a “l2 kitten ue”, and perhaps gone on to imply that only the unskilled cannot use it. 2 health bars, large health pool, perhaps unrivaled ability to convert conditions to boons, use them to heal, transfer to enemies; an army of minions to tank, heal and do damage for the necro. As opposed to all other weaker classes which people seem to have no “trouble” with. But again this would be wrong. The issue is simply a question of “fun”.

Now for the thief, the stealth mechanic was a more central item of fun for me. Thus, the change has removed proportionally more enjoyment for me. And I question my desire to continue playing if it is not fun enough for me. Perhaps I will find the missing fun, perhaps not.

To clarify more by way of example, imagine this: the forums become equipped with a means to prevent posting base insults, lies, falsehoods, irrelevant anecdotal “evidence”, condescending mockery, delusions, snide little put downs, obnoxious insinuations, and the like.

Why would you continue to try to post? The fun would be gone. You would be frustrated and have no enjoyment. Only the mean spirited could find fault with your decision to cease posting.

Cynics and trouble makers would say you need to “l2p” ( learn to post), as you would vanish from the forums. But that is untrue and unfair…and would be perhaps blocked from being posted as well.

It would not be that you have lost the ability/capacity to type or use the forums. You would not need to “l2p”. You simply lost what was fun for you, and stopped.