Guild Wars 2

Auesis.7301:

Just experimented with it. It seems to:

- Get proper CD reduction with Quick Venoms
- Receive an additional attack with Residual Venom

But:

- Does not give Might with Venomous Strength
- Does not get additional damage and healing with Leeching Venoms
- Does not benefit from Venomous Aura

This was tested by changing the traits and comparing the additions to the code with existing Venom skills.

Ummm… So what’s the point of this skill again?

It’s too bad Improvisation is such a kitten trait. If it worked so that it refreshed the CD of the type of skill (venoms/signets/traps etc.) that was in the majority, the ability to refresh your heal on steal would make this heal a bit better.

Instead of brand new abilities, I’d rather see them go through all the traits and fix/trim all the useless, never-used ones.

Once again, Anet fails to deliver.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Auesis.7301:

Just experimented with it. It seems to:

- Get proper CD reduction with Quick Venoms
- Receive an additional attack with Residual Venom

But:

- Does not give Might with Venomous Strength
- Does not get additional damage and healing with Leeching Venoms
- Does not benefit from Venomous Aura

This was tested by changing the traits and comparing the additions to the code with existing Venom skills.

Ummm… So what’s the point of this skill again?

Currently asking myself the same question.

Auesis.7301:

Here’s the in-game code: [&BxJVAAA=]

4 hits, 1.3k heal. kitten CD.

You have got to be kidding me……..i can’t…well….this at least proves that it’s a good thing i jumped classes.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Auesis.7301:

Just experimented with it. It seems to:

- Get proper CD reduction with Quick Venoms
- Receive an additional attack with Residual Venom

But:

- Does not give Might with Venomous Strength
- Does not get additional damage and healing with Leeching Venoms
- Does not benefit from Venomous Aura

This was tested by changing the traits and comparing the additions to the code with existing Venom skills.

Ummm… So what’s the point of this skill again?

So we can’t say “But we didn’t get a healing skill”.
:D

1s cast time. They actually did exactly everything i imagined with that skill to be the worst possible.

Best Skill Ever.

Zero Day.2594:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Auesis.7301:

Just experimented with it. It seems to:

- Get proper CD reduction with Quick Venoms
- Receive an additional attack with Residual Venom

But:

- Does not give Might with Venomous Strength
- Does not get additional damage and healing with Leeching Venoms
- Does not benefit from Venomous Aura

This was tested by changing the traits and comparing the additions to the code with existing Venom skills.

Ummm… So what’s the point of this skill again?

So we can’t say “But we didn’t get a healing skill”.
:D

I knew I wasn’t going to use the skill anyway unless it was a life steal that complimented my play style, but this is very disheartening. Not only is this skill the least intuitive of all of the new heals, it’s design is also very lazy and stale. I sure hope this is a joke.

So I’ve literally just made a Thief and used my level 20 tome and crafted to level 34. I found the chat codes for the new heals and can honestly say that the Thieves one is hilariously bad.

I think I’m going to go back to Guardian or Mesmer, their heals seem far, far better.

:3

This would need a significant buff to rise to the level of ‘terrible.’

Tetsuyja.7805:

u know that the tooltip of every venom describes what one hit does. in other words: 4×1400 points of health.

and nobody will take this skill, when it can countered by a heal skill (warriors stance skill)^^

CD too high when u are alone – CD is ok (or a little bit OP) if u take venom share and 20 points in DA. first put 20 points in DA then take skelk venom. new builds will appear……no.
no condition remove. ok. with condition remove the skill is OP. so if u take skelk venom, u have to spend 30 points on traits line without a choice (10 in SA – shadows embrace).

i’ll take withdraw, simply because it gives me agility removing immoo, chill and cripple and has a perfect cd with 15sec. thief’s don’t need a heal skill with a cd over 30sec. who the f*** has this idea? we have less vigor and should w8t longer until we can use our heal skill…

---

EDIT——————-
forgotten the 1 sec cast time sry, but for me, this skill is only usable if i stay 600m away from any enemy. the 1 sec cast time on basilica venom, ok, no prob, elite skill, maybe anet could remove it, but anyway.

This is starting to rise into the realms of the surreal. All these details cannot be accurate. What you’re describing is blatantly garbage – an indie developer wouldn’t let this pass QA. I’m not even making a dig at ANet, I’m honestly convinced something has to be wrong here (or this is an early build of the ability, etc…), because as described, this skill is provably worse than our current options in nearly every single way.

evilapprentice.6379:

Tetsuyja.7805:

u know that the tooltip of every venom describes what one hit does. in other words: 4×1400 points of health.

and nobody will take this skill, when it can countered by a heal skill (warriors stance skill)^^

CD too high when u are alone – CD is ok (or a little bit OP) if u take venom share and 20 points in DA. first put 20 points in DA then take skelk venom. new builds will appear……no.
no condition remove. ok. with condition remove the skill is OP. so if u take skelk venom, u have to spend 30 points on traits line without a choice (10 in SA – shadows embrace).

i’ll take withdraw, simply because it gives me agility removing immoo, chill and cripple and has a perfect cd with 15sec. thief’s don’t need a heal skill with a cd over 30sec. who the f*** has this idea? we have less vigor and should w8t longer until we can use our heal skill…

---

EDIT——————-
forgotten the 1 sec cast time sry, but for me, this skill is only usable if i stay 600m away from any enemy. the 1 sec cast time on basilica venom, ok, no prob, elite skill, maybe anet could remove it, but anyway.

This is starting to rise into the realms of the surreal. All these details cannot be accurate. What you’re describing is blatantly garbage – an indie developer wouldn’t let is pass QA. I’m not even making a dig at ANet, I’m honestly convinced something has to be wrong here (or this is an early build of the ability, etc…), because as described, this skill is provably worse than our current options in nearly every single way.

It’s at least half-functioning. Paste the code in-game and see for yourself. Even if there’s a slight variation at patch, this is basically it.

evilapprentice.6379:

This is starting to rise into the realms of the surreal. All these details cannot be accurate. What you’re describing is blatantly garbage – an indie developer wouldn’t let this pass QA. I’m not even making a dig at ANet, I’m honestly convinced something has to be wrong here (or this is an early build of the ability, etc…), because as described, this skill is provably worse than our current options in nearly every single way.

You should check the Necro and Mesmer ones:

Signet of Vampirism [&BwJVAAA=]
- 320 HP per hit on you aaaaaaand you deal 300 hit back GG

Signet of the Ether [&B/ZUAAA=]
- FUT THE WUK? 800 HP WITH 3 ILLUSIONS!? Lets hope it’s not per second

Also the thief’s, if anyone want to compare
Skelk Venom [&BxJVAAA=]

The only thing I can think of, is that there is going to be a re-tooling of some of the venom-affecting traits, such as shuffling up and down tiers, fixing/readjusting or something else.

This heal is hands down, the worst healing ability being introduced, unless something being added/fixed, as mentioned above makes it shine (which I doubt – Anet has trouble balancing anything other than their checkbook).

Just gazing at some of the other profession’s heals, they look to be useful in a group or solo situation, while the thief’s appears to only be on the level of bad when shared with others, and abysmally kittened when solo.

AlexEBT.7240:

Auesis.7301:

Here’s the in-game code: [&BxJVAAA=]

4 hits, 1.3k heal. kitten CD.

You have got to be kidding me……..i can’t…well….this at least proves that it’s a good thing i jumped classes.

This is the exact idea I am getting. Even a 1 second cast time to activate it so it can be INTERRUPTED aswell?….Basilisk venom I can understand but this….

I think as John mentioned that the Thief heal would certainly shake things up…yeah it does but in a really negative way. GEE GEE! :P

Venomous Aura – this is the reason why we cannot have nice things. It’s why venoms, and all the mechanics behind it sucks.

Anet needs to make it so venoms have a base effect that gets shared via venom sharing, and a secondary effect, that is added on for the thief’s personal use, and would not be shared.

For example:

Devourer Venom:

Your next two attacks Immobilize.

Shared effect:
Immobilized: 2 s
Duration: 30 s

Personal Effect:

This venom leaves a lingering toxin in your target’s veins, snaring your target for 2 seconds after immobilize wears off. During that 2 seconds, your target has a chance of being immobilized for 1 second (1 check per second, 20% to immobilize, affected by Potent Poison, for a total of 53% if that trait is selected)

(This is likely overpowered, but you get my meaning – by weaving Potent poisons into possible things that can affect personal venoms, it encourages going deeper into venom traits)

Until that happens, venoms will be sitting next to traps as the red-headed step child of thief abilities.

The new healing Venom will be a top contender for the most unreliable heal in the game. You can very easily get 0 healing from it from factors outside your control.

There needs to be a rather significant initial heal on cast, especially considering its long cooldown and that it also has a cast time.

Otherwise, why would any Thief take it over Withdraw, one of the most reliable Heals in the game, or HIS, which has great synergy with builds that make use of Stealth attacks, or even SoM.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Auesis.7301:

Just experimented with it. It seems to:

- Get proper CD reduction with Quick Venoms
- Receive an additional attack with Residual Venom

But:

- Does not give Might with Venomous Strength
- Does not get additional damage and healing with Leeching Venoms
- Does not benefit from Venomous Aura

This was tested by changing the traits and comparing the additions to the code with existing Venom skills.

Ummm… So what’s the point of this skill again?

It’s prolly still in work, so some traits might not work/display correctly(i have traited vigor on heal and it wans’t mentioned in the tooltip) but cooldown of 45 seconds makes it totally rubish. Even if they double the numbers, 45 seconds are just WAY too much.

I think venoms are balanced with the assumption that thieves take all the associated traits, then share those venoms with a party bunched into melee range.

For the six or seven thieves out there running venomshare builds with a set party, I’m sure that’s a good way to view it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-there-ever-going-to-be-utilities/first#post3303991

I would like to point out I called it,………..yay me :P

Asomal.6453:

evilapprentice.6379:

This is starting to rise into the realms of the surreal. All these details cannot be accurate. What you’re describing is blatantly garbage – an indie developer wouldn’t let this pass QA. I’m not even making a dig at ANet, I’m honestly convinced something has to be wrong here (or this is an early build of the ability, etc…), because as described, this skill is provably worse than our current options in nearly every single way.

You should check the Necro and Mesmer ones:

Signet of Vampirism [&BwJVAAA=]
- 320 HP per hit on you aaaaaaand you deal 300 hit back GG

Signet of the Ether [&B/ZUAAA=]
- FUT THE WUK? 800 HP WITH 3 ILLUSIONS!? Lets hope it’s not per second

Also the thief’s, if anyone want to compare
Skelk Venom [&BxJVAAA=]

I just can’t wait to use pw on a necro with retaliation using that healing skill.

BobbyT.7192:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-there-ever-going-to-be-utilities/first#post3303991

I would like to point out I called it,………..yay me :P

Well it was either healing trap or healing venom.

Two changes that would make venoms actually attractive:

Venomous Aura changed to: “Venom skills now use ground targeting. Shadowstep to target area and apply the effects to nearby allies. 900 range”

Venomous Strength or Slowed Pulsed scrapped to a new trait: “Venom skills now also apply stealth. 3s”

roamzero.9486:

Two changes that would make venoms actually attractive:

Venomous Aura changed to: “Venom skills now use ground targeting. Shadowstep to target area and apply the effects to nearby allies. 900 range”

Venomous Strength or Slowed Pulsed scrapped to a new trait: “Venom skills now also apply stealth. 3s”

That venomous aura would be amazing. However I use slowed pulse. It helps with sustain.

I think, if they make the new venom heal makes your hits ignore blind and unblockable… i think that it would make an interesting healing skill. Think it could also use a leeching effect, its a venom after all.

MyCondolences.8172:

I think, if they make the new venom heal makes your hits ignore blind and unblockable… i think that it would make an interesting healing skill. Think it could also use a leeching effect, its a venom after all.

I’ve been saying this since they announced that the thief heal would “change everything”. The only thing I could think of was a venom that had life steal. Life steal would also open up the heal for burst builds as well considering life steal adds damage on top of your normal hits, potentially increasing your damage dealt by CnD+Mug+Backstab+Heartseeker by 2000 extra damage.

Viking Jorun.5413:

MyCondolences.8172:

I think, if they make the new venom heal makes your hits ignore blind and unblockable… i think that it would make an interesting healing skill. Think it could also use a leeching effect, its a venom after all.

I’ve been saying this since they announced that the thief heal would “change everything”. The only thing I could think of was a venom that had life steal. Life steal would also open up the heal for burst builds as well considering life steal adds damage on top of your normal hits, potentially increasing your damage dealt by CnD+Mug+Backstab+Heartseeker by 2000 extra damage.

I was looking forward to making a venomshare thief when i read the new heal skill was going to be a venom. If they can make this worthwhile i’ll bring my thief out of retirement. If not, i always have a warrior.

MyCondolences.8172:

Viking Jorun.5413:

MyCondolences.8172:

I think, if they make the new venom heal makes your hits ignore blind and unblockable… i think that it would make an interesting healing skill. Think it could also use a leeching effect, its a venom after all.

I’ve been saying this since they announced that the thief heal would “change everything”. The only thing I could think of was a venom that had life steal. Life steal would also open up the heal for burst builds as well considering life steal adds damage on top of your normal hits, potentially increasing your damage dealt by CnD+Mug+Backstab+Heartseeker by 2000 extra damage.

I was looking forward to making a venomshare thief when i read the new heal skill was going to be a venom. If they can make this worthwhile i’ll bring my thief out of retirement. If not, i always have a warrior.

My GW2 joke in forum main was infrared for joking about how you get a lot of warriors when you nerf thieves. Apparently the mods didn’t think it was funny. All in good faith though! I expect some buffs in the next balance patch.

Azraelle.1683:

BobbyT.7192:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-there-ever-going-to-be-utilities/first#post3303991

I would like to point out I called it,………..yay me :P

Well it was either healing trap or healing venom.

They had a healing trap in gw1, and after 250 years look where it is now.

BobbyT.7192:

Azraelle.1683:

BobbyT.7192:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-there-ever-going-to-be-utilities/first#post3303991

I would like to point out I called it,………..yay me :P

Well it was either healing trap or healing venom.

They had a healing trap in gw1, and after 250 years look where it is now.

Could work like a cross between healing spring and chaos field, doing things to enemies who trigger it while healing us.

It’s official: Anet hates Thieves.

I did some testing with the code, it seems the skill may have a higher heal potential then any of our other heals. This is assuming the heal in the spec is a single hit instead of overall.
Skelk Venom
6332 overall if per hit
1583 if overall
Withdraw
4683
Hide in Shadow
5805
Signet of Malice
3275
Anti-Toxin Spray
4275
This was on my Cleric’s set (you may ask why a thief has a Cleric’s set, short answer, experimenting. I have a Knight’s, Valkyrie’s, Berserker’s, Carrion and Soldier’s set too)

It should be per-hit as normal venom notation shows the per-hit effect, not total. Even so, I still feel like you guys got the short end of the stick this time around. Well, no. You guys had the stick yanked out of your hands once you had a good hold, ripping your palms open this time around.

Also, as a side note for dealing with necros running the new signet: unless something changes between now and patch, they won’t have a direct heal. To take them down, hit harder, not faster and deny them hits on you once they activate it. You have the ability to avoid getting hit for five seconds, even after the incoming nerfs.

Alternatively, just dodge the activation. 3/4 sec isn’t impossible to dodge once you know the animation. Then you have the next 16 seconds minimum to have your fun on a heal-less target.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It should be per-hit as normal venom notation shows the per-hit effect, not total. Even so, I still feel like you guys got the short end of the stick this time around. Well, no. You guys had the stick yanked out of your hands once you had a good hold, ripping your palms open this time around.

Also, as a side note for dealing with necros running the new signet: unless something changes between now and patch, they won’t have a direct heal. To take them down, hit harder, not faster and deny them hits on you once they activate it. You have the ability to avoid getting hit for five seconds, even after the incoming nerfs.

Alternatively, just dodge the activation. 3/4 sec isn’t impossible to dodge once you know the animation. Then you have the next 16 seconds minimum to have your fun on a heal-less target.

While the necro heal has it’s own issues(not working while in DS, can be dodged, Marked target can dodge once marked) you forget that each hit on them is going to trigger the passive. While hitting them harder helps negate that heal it also negates a portion of your DPS. On top of your DPS being lowered you’re also taking extra damage all while the necro is still pouring on the damage. I’m curious to see if a siphoning build is possible now on necros now because that could make things worse. I really want a thief healing build to be possible too but skelk venom is just so terrible and Signet of Malice just doesn’t have much to pair up with to overcome our squishiness.

ipan.4356:

It’s official: Anet hates Thieves.

Just because they didn’t feel like animating our new skill at all and putting as little effort into it as possible doesn’t mean they hate us…. right?

Improve the healing on Signet of Malice.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Altruism

yeeee… with new healing skill. will this proc 4 times then?

AEFA.9035:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Altruism

yeeee… with new healing skill. will this proc 4 times then?

Pretty sure it won’t. It will just works like engineer’s Med Kit

AEFA.9035:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Altruism

yeeee… with new healing skill. will this proc 4 times then?

Effects like that only trigger when the cast bar for the 6-slot skill completes, which would only happen once with Skelk Venom. Additionally, all effects that trigger on use of the healing skill have an internal cooldown because of engineer’s medkit, so even if it were possible to abuse Skelk Venom this way, you’d have to stop attacking while waiting for the ICD, which would be pretty counter-productive when trying to abuse an offensive effect.

like jon said “Oh the new thief heal is going to mix some things up for sure!!!”
it will mix for sure. but not for us rather than any other class can take us more easily with this skill
:)

Anet you getting worse i am really disappoint from you right now

It doesn’t matter.

Withdraw and Hide in Shadows are both excellent. While it’s disappointing that the new heal appears useless, this is not an area where we needed help. Unless this is part of an overall effort to de-suck venoms, it’s a non-event for thieves.

Don’t the devs know that venoms suck?

What irks me the most is here you have a chance to introduce some variety that you promised looking forward at the beginning of 2013 and you clearly do so with almost every other class except thief…. all the new other class heals bring something to the table while our “new” heal is lazy as both an idea and in its execution… i mean seriously 45 sec CD for a heal that doesn’t even heal that much and can be blocked? thats just utter laziness

JonPeters.5630:

Oh the new thief heal is going to mix some things up for sure!!!

Auesis.7301:

Here’s the in-game code: [&BxJVAAA=]
4 hits, 1.3k heal. kitten CD.

evilapprentice.6379:

This is starting to rise into the realms of the surreal … an indie developer wouldn’t let this pass QA.

Don’t forget that the person telling us the upcoming initiative changes are a “MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs” was from Anet’s PvP and Balance Quality Assurance.

Maybe they are going to push out an undocumented venom rework next week. Maybe next week’s Tuesday is April 1st instead of December 10th. Otherwise I’m beginning to believe that Sanduskel has been right all along: devs have the data and know what’s best for the class, there’s nothing wrong with thieves.

Just wow.

Even with the total figure it’s below every other heal in the game right now.

How come most of the other classes heals have a passive component always active and thieves don’t?

They just remade signet of malice, but worse.

Honestly as a thief how many consecutive hits do you land before the other player dodges/teleports/blocks, knocks you away/stuns you. maybe 1 or 2?

What a hilariously badly thought out heal.

Will I drop my heal which makes me invisible, removes 3 conditions and heals me for 5k a time on a 30 sec timer, or a venom which heals me for slightly more as long as I can land all 4 hits on a 45 second timer, and takes 1 second to activate…..

It’s a tough choice!

Dual.8953:

I did some testing with the code, it seems the skill may have a higher heal potential then any of our other heals. This is assuming the heal in the spec is a single hit instead of overall.
Skelk Venom
6332 overall if per hit
1583 if overall
Withdraw
4683
Hide in Shadow
5805
Signet of Malice
3275
Anti-Toxin Spray
4275
This was on my Cleric’s set (you may ask why a thief has a Cleric’s set, short answer, experimenting. I have a Knight’s, Valkyrie’s, Berserker’s, Carrion and Soldier’s set too)

You can do 3 withdraws (healing a total of 14049) by the time skelk venom cools down. Signet of Malice was arguably the weakest/riskiest heal we had, and instead of improving it, Anet did a copy+paste+change numbers.

Why would a venom even heal you to begin with anyway, at least it should do something to the target.

Puru.4217:

Why would a venom even heal you to begin with anyway, at least it should do something to the target.

Thats what i’m thinking. Venoms are meant to hurt your opponent.. It should atleast be a leeching atk.

Really really hoping that they make it leeching and unblockable(or atleast trigger heal on misses OR at worst not lose a charge)

Puru.4217:

Why would a venom even heal you to begin with anyway, at least it should do something to the target.

THIS. ABSOLUTELY 100% THIS.

I was expecting an extremely potent Life Leech instead of just a flat-out heal. It makes literally no sense.

Here are some improvement ideas, which includes some already suggested:
- Shorter cool down
- Shorter or instant activation
- Life Leech
- Passive heal
- Cures conditions
- Transfers conditions
- (crazy idea) Apply a random condition

Just to point it out, i’m not suggesting skelk venom has ALL these buffs to it.

I don’t even care anymore. Thieves are on the edge of extinction.