Guild Wars 2

if it’s true this venom has 1sec cast time too…so, our 45 sec cd healing skill can be blocked, dodged, can miss due to blind ecc AND can be cc too

So, even ignoring the crap numbers of this skill, let’s take venom-sharing into account for a moment.

When am I supposed to use this healing skill…?

- When I’m at 100% health but a buddy is wounded? … And pray for not needing it for myself on the next frakin’ 45 seconds?
- When I’m wounded but all my teammates are at good health? Then, what is the point of venom-sharing this heal?
- When all of us are wounded enough to make it worthy? Probably, the best case scenario (every 45 secs). But ofc, all of the above is assuming that everyone will be at kiss range from me to benefit from venom-sharing. In most cases, you’ll have to look for the wounded buddy, move next to him, pray for him not move/dodge, and activate the venom… if he’s still alive of course.

This skill makes no sense from its very foundations.

“This heal is going to shake things”. … I bet he was referring to the ship’s deck… When every thief left on it jumps out-the-boat.

Dual.8953:

I did some testing with the code, it seems the skill may have a higher heal potential then any of our other heals. This is assuming the heal in the spec is a single hit instead of overall.
Skelk Venom
6332 overall if per hit
1583 if overall
Withdraw
4683
Hide in Shadow
5805
Signet of Malice
3275
Anti-Toxin Spray
4275
This was on my Cleric’s set (you may ask why a thief has a Cleric’s set, short answer, experimenting. I have a Knight’s, Valkyrie’s, Berserker’s, Carrion and Soldier’s set too)

Drugs are bad for your health, bro.

for pve maybe is a good thought…maybe

phaeris.7604:

Will I drop my heal which makes me invisible, removes 3 conditions and heals me for 5k a time on a 30 sec timer, or a venom which heals me for slightly more as long as I can land all 4 hits on a 45 second timer, and takes 1 second to activate…..

You forgot about the regeneration from hide in shadows.
With the regeneration it heals more… even if you hit with all 4 charges.

Ha, ahh yes! Thanks for that.

The only use of this venom is in venom share PvE for dungeons/bosses. But the cooldown is just too high. Warrior banner regen gives you a better return. As do waterfields. Infact I can’t see any use for it.

Top down design – we’re giving every class a heal so lets give thieves a venom heal
Bottom up design – thieves need a new heal because …., need more venoms because ….

phaeris.7604:

Ha, ahh yes! Thanks for that.

The only use of this venom is in venom share PvE for dungeons/bosses. But the cooldown is just too high. Warrior banner regen gives you a better return. As do waterfields. Infact I can’t see any use for it.

I bet a necro using the new signet will provide more healing over time than the new thief venom and will provide extra dps on top of it. Also they don’t have to destroy their damage to do it.

Lol…I just tested this skill with a code that was on dulfy.net to see how my Venom build interact with it and…what a useless skill…
HiS provides me with 5832HP + 816HP through regen = 6648HP, invisibility and cond removal – 30s cooldown.
Skale Venom 1596HP per attack, which gives 6384HP – 36s cooldown…if I hit with all four attacks…and my exp tells my I won’t. And what it is even worse – (if tooltip shows everything) I won’t get additional HP and dmg from Leeching Venoms like I should if this skill is really a venom!
And I though we will finally get some other healing skill worth equipping…Poor skill with poor implementation.

The only advantage I can think of is Venomous Aura…but being better at support would mean to sacrifice my own ability to survive. Great idea…

Dual.8953:

I did some testing with the code, it seems the skill may have a higher heal potential then any of our other heals. This is assuming the heal in the spec is a single hit instead of overall.
Skelk Venom
6332 overall if per hit
1583 if overall
Withdraw
4683
Hide in Shadow
5805
Signet of Malice
3275
Anti-Toxin Spray
4275
This was on my Cleric’s set (you may ask why a thief has a Cleric’s set, short answer, experimenting. I have a Knight’s, Valkyrie’s, Berserker’s, Carrion and Soldier’s set too)

It’s the worst healing. You don’t have to judge only on healing effectiveness, you also have to base your conclusion depending on both the CD of the skill and on other benefits.

Withdraw, with a 15 sec CD and about a 4500 healing effeciveness is by far the most effective healing skill we have. In 45 seconds (the CD on skelk venom) it heals you up to 13500 hp, plus it cures immobilize, cripple and chill three times, it has an evade in it and it’s instant.

Skelk venom – Instant Cast
On use, the next 4 attacks leech health (dealing damage and healing you) and transfer 1 condition to your target. While skelk venom is active (while you have unused charges), regenerate X health per second.

Look at that, I just designed a venom heal infinitely superior to Anet’s version, without being silly and OP. It can handle conditions (something thief sorely needs), gives you a reason to actually use it over withdraw/HiS (via the leeching damage), and the passive heal that only lasts until you use all the charges adds a level of complexity and player control, bringing it somewhat on par with how innovative and different all the other classes new heals are looking.

It took about 5 seconds of thought (so it might need some tweaking), and playing a thief. Goes to show how inept their handling of the class is.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Auesis.7301:

Here’s the in-game code: [&BxJVAAA=]

4 hits, 1.3k heal. kitten CD.

Joy. Not even as much as HiS and is on a 45 second CD. Because sustain.

Less then Shadow Refuge even….

The key takeaway: ANet’s view of thieves is quite different from that of the thief player community. This is either the first step in a long-term vision, as yet obscure to us, or one of the parties has an imperfect understanding of the class.

Oghier.7419:

The key takeaway: ANet’s view of thieves is quite different from that of the thief player community. This is either the first step in a long-term vision, as yet obscure to us, or one of the parties has an imperfect understanding of the class.

That would imply Anet has a “view for thieves”. It’s not as if they’re making changes that just take us in a different direction – they’re making changes that make us strictly a less effective class. Seeing as most of the top tier players agree on the fact that thief has been a mid-tier class (at best) since june, this is confusing for many of us. They’re making blind stabs in the dark, and rather than just admit they have no idea what they’re doing and turn to the community for help, they actively ignore us, or just tell us how effective our options are when they’re provably not.

When it came time to design new heals, they seemingly did an excellent job on most of their classes – time will tell how effective the new heals are, but for every class other than thief, they’re at least interesting. They’re new, they potentially offer a new play style, they potentially open up specs or change the play style of current specs. The proposed thief heal (Even if the numbers turn out to be amazing) is boring, lazily designed, and uninspired.

Dual.8953:

I did some testing with the code, it seems the skill may have a higher heal potential then any of our other heals. This is assuming the heal in the spec is a single hit instead of overall.
Skelk Venom
6332 overall if per hit
1583 if overall
Withdraw
4683
Hide in Shadow
5805
Signet of Malice
3275
Anti-Toxin Spray
4275
This was on my Cleric’s set (you may ask why a thief has a Cleric’s set, short answer, experimenting. I have a Knight’s, Valkyrie’s, Berserker’s, Carrion and Soldier’s set too)

In theory, that sounds great, until you consider the low HP pool of thieves.

Because of this, we do better with smaller heals on shorter cooldowns. This is one of the many aspects of Withdraw that is awesome.

evilapprentice.6379:

Skelk venom – Instant Cast
On use, the next 4 attacks leech health (dealing damage and healing you) and transfer 1 condition to your target. While skelk venom is active (while you have unused charges), regenerate X health per second.

Look at that, I just designed a venom heal infinitely superior to Anet’s version, without being silly and OP. It can handle conditions (something thief sorely needs), gives you a reason to actually use it over withdraw/HiS (via the leeching damage), and the passive heal that only lasts until you use all the charges adds a level of complexity and player control, bringing it somewhat on par with how innovative and different all the other classes new heals are looking.

It took about 5 seconds of thought (so it might need some tweaking), and playing a thief. Goes to show how inept their handling of the class is.

no, no, no!…. you basically copied my post from the previous page

This venom could’ve been something a little more interesting, like “Passively heals you for X amount for every tic one of your damaging conditions inflicts damage.” A stack of 5 bleeds would heal you for each stack, so it would be X amount of health X5.

The heal amount would be low, like 10 or 20, but as most thief builds have some sort of condition damage attached, it wouldn’t be only useful for one niche build like venom sharing.

Edit: It wouldn’t be all that useful for a power build without tweaking.

samanosuke.4508:

evilapprentice.6379:

Skelk venom – Instant Cast
On use, the next 4 attacks leech health (dealing damage and healing you) and transfer 1 condition to your target. While skelk venom is active (while you have unused charges), regenerate X health per second.

Look at that, I just designed a venom heal infinitely superior to Anet’s version, without being silly and OP. It can handle conditions (something thief sorely needs), gives you a reason to actually use it over withdraw/HiS (via the leeching damage), and the passive heal that only lasts until you use all the charges adds a level of complexity and player control, bringing it somewhat on par with how innovative and different all the other classes new heals are looking.

It took about 5 seconds of thought (so it might need some tweaking), and playing a thief. Goes to show how inept their handling of the class is.

no, no, no!…. you basically copied my post from the previous page

My bad, didnt see it.

why are people so upset about a venom behing the next thief heal skill ive been looking forward to it for so long now ill be able to run Death blossom/pistom bleed and pretend im a final fantasy condition gunner like i wanted to age ago

How would skelk venom help you more then, say, signet of malice?

frans.8092:

How would skelk venom help you more then, say, signet of malice?

Well it’s obvious, with the signet you’ll be missing the opportunity to roleplay a full venom thief.

I’ve created character specially for spvp venom meta. I won’t go down alone, i’ll take 4 other fotm players with me.

So, something to note from the livestream is that it has a 4k individual heal PLUS 4 stacks of skelk venom which have a 650 base heal, giving you well over HiS’s heal with support opportunity.

Viking Jorun.5413:

So, something to note from the livestream is that it has a 4k individual heal PLUS 4 stacks of skelk venom which have a 650 base heal, giving you well over HiS’s heal with support opportunity.

Still 45sec cd, still need to waste alot of traits for venom share + reduce cd + need your whole team to actully hit something to heal ( if they miss charges goes away gz you wasted 45sec cd heal if your being targeted your done )

Now i know i heard jon peter said IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IFFI IFIF IFIF IFFIFIFI 1k times

If your team gets in the area of venom share IF your team gets the heal If the enemies are not dodging / blocking / blinding and things

it can get nice but your choice to depend on if

I will try the heal out just for the sake of trying it out, but the argument on livestream trying to justify the standard cooldown being 45 because “all other venoms are 45 seconds” is just….errr kitten .
If this would have been 35 or 30, I would have taken it over hide in shadows (which actually removes conditions!!!)

I think the leech effect could have been made higher as a base to balance the risk/reward factor. It depends on you hitting stuff so if you DO manage to hit something and predicting dodges and the likes, you should be appropriatly rewarded, seeing this heal has NO other advantage.
HiS stealth, remove life-draining condis, Signet promotes ranged and lots of rapid attacks for high sustain(note, relatively :P) and Withdraw has a low cooldown, removes CC-related condis and has an in-built evade.
Skelk Venom has nothing apart from the fact that it can be TRAITED to be shared to party members in kissing-range.
I think a higher leech effect would have been a good idea when you think about the fact that you HAVE to trait for your healskill to make it work.

Viking Jorun.5413:

So, something to note from the livestream is that it has a 4k individual heal PLUS 4 stacks of skelk venom which have a 650 base heal, giving you well over HiS’s heal with support opportunity.

It’s a reverse Signet of malice with more burst sustain compared to the signet, the only thing that kills it for me is the 45sec CD, not a huge fan of healing skill with +30 cd. (and yes, that means HiS)

Question I would like to know is if they are going to balance venoms around a single trait, why not just make it base, or even just lower it a tier would be really nice

these aren’t the droids you’re looking for, move along.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Excalibur.9748:

You mean this?
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/23539-skelk-venom

Wooh! Heals for 20 guys! If you add that up and hit all 5 attacks without being dodged, blinded or blocked that’s a whole 100 health!!!

Tool tip states it heals for 1400 × 4 (5 with traits) That’s 7k healing… and if its moded by Healing Power I can see Venom Share being a solid PvE build.

This was posted on Dulfy, don’t have the exact link atm

Tooltip is probably completely incorrect until the skill is available in a patch. If the info was really given in the livestream (didn’t watch myself), it makes a lot more sense.

The radius is just too small.

The only time your team is near you is at the very start of the battle, when you don’t need any healing at all.

It’s just SO badly thought out.

phaeris.7604:

The radius is just too small.

The only time your team is near you is at the very start of the battle, when you don’t need any healing at all.

It’s just SO badly thought out.

How about telling your team to get together so they can die in AoE ÄHRM i meant get your venoms…

Well, Skelk Venom will actually be much stronger than we first thought. Also, with the changes they made to the necro signet, thieves are only getting the second worst heal skill instead of the worst.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, Skelk Venom will actually be much stronger than we first thought. Also, with the changes they made to the necro signet, thieves are only getting the second worst heal skill instead of the worst.

Are you implying that the necro signet is the worst skill? Lol
It’s probably the second stronger if the mesmer signet is per second

Asomal.6453:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, Skelk Venom will actually be much stronger than we first thought. Also, with the changes they made to the necro signet, thieves are only getting the second worst heal skill instead of the worst.

Are you implying that the necro signet is the worst skill? Lol
It’s probably the second stronger if the mesmer signet is per second

The necro heal is TERRIBLE, are you kidding? did you even watch the preview? It WAS okay and they totally kittened it internally. Did you see the about 4 seconds they stayed on Necro and how unenthused they were when they healed themselves for like 5k with a 35 sec cd. >_>:

From livestream and quoted from Dulfy

Thief: Skelk Venom. 4300 initial self-heal and 685 heal for every attack for the next 4 attacks. The heal for every attack can be shared with allies. Quick Vendom will bring it down to 36 CD. Leeching Venom allow you to heal even more. Warrior can get about 20% HP from this shared heal (5.4k HP or 7.3k HP if you equip cleric amulet on the thief).

4310 initial heal
685 per strike with venom, 4 strikes

Would be nice for venomshare build assuming all atks land.
Fully traited 9k self heal, 5k heal to rest of party, 36sec cooldown.

Asomal.6453:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, Skelk Venom will actually be much stronger than we first thought. Also, with the changes they made to the necro signet, thieves are only getting the second worst heal skill instead of the worst.

Are you implying that the necro signet is the worst skill? Lol
It’s probably the second stronger if the mesmer signet is per second

I’m guessing you didn’t see the livestream. They basically removed everything that made the skill (as presented in the current in-game tooltips) good (short cast time, short recharge, good siphoning, no ICD, damage to attackers).

What people who like the skill fail to realize is that venoms have this quality I call “Trash Until Traited”.

TuT For short.

The skill is clearly horrible, it was designed that way.
Only fully traited for venoms does it even START to look appealing.
And thief is out “supported” by the other classes ( why else were thieves preferred for their nice damage ? Maybe because it’s what thieves excel at. )

Sorry, but I’ll probably use it a few times for a good laugh and go right back to withdraw/HiS.

Some of the other classes got nifty heals. Wish I could have said the same for my main.

ronpierce.2760:

Asomal.6453:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, Skelk Venom will actually be much stronger than we first thought. Also, with the changes they made to the necro signet, thieves are only getting the second worst heal skill instead of the worst.

Are you implying that the necro signet is the worst skill? Lol
It’s probably the second stronger if the mesmer signet is per second

The necro heal is TERRIBLE, are you kidding? did you even watch the preview? It WAS okay and they totally kittened it internally. Did you see the about 4 seconds they stayed on Necro and how unenthused they were when they healed themselves for like 5k with a 35 sec cd. >_>:

Are you talking about the livestream? I didn’t see it. Do you have the link please?

The necro heal was butchered, i have to agree it looked to be the worse by far.

Healing venom is still pretty bad (well it’s a venom) but at least it has an initial heal and can brainlessly be included when building for venom share.

To give you a hint, not even two hours after it was revealed in the livestream, a thread popped up in the necro forum about how to rework it to be useable. I know a lot of kittening goes on on these forums, but the skill hasn’t even been released and the necros are demanding a rework.

Before there was talk about where it would be useful, how to use it highly effectively, and so on. With the info we now have, no matter the situation, we already have a better healing skill for that situation.

it just needs a passive thats up at all times to work.

every venom heals 300 per hit ontop of what it aleready does.

i think that would make it worthy …especcially since half will be misses/blocks/blinds etc

Asomal.6453:

ronpierce.2760:

Asomal.6453:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, Skelk Venom will actually be much stronger than we first thought. Also, with the changes they made to the necro signet, thieves are only getting the second worst heal skill instead of the worst.

Are you implying that the necro signet is the worst skill? Lol
It’s probably the second stronger if the mesmer signet is per second

The necro heal is TERRIBLE, are you kidding? did you even watch the preview? It WAS okay and they totally kittened it internally. Did you see the about 4 seconds they stayed on Necro and how unenthused they were when they healed themselves for like 5k with a 35 sec cd. >_>:

Are you talking about the livestream? I didn’t see it. Do you have the link please?

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/3352860

Heal previews start at about 34:15.

Maugetarr.6823:

Asomal.6453:

ronpierce.2760:

Asomal.6453:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, Skelk Venom will actually be much stronger than we first thought. Also, with the changes they made to the necro signet, thieves are only getting the second worst heal skill instead of the worst.

Are you implying that the necro signet is the worst skill? Lol
It’s probably the second stronger if the mesmer signet is per second

The necro heal is TERRIBLE, are you kidding? did you even watch the preview? It WAS okay and they totally kittened it internally. Did you see the about 4 seconds they stayed on Necro and how unenthused they were when they healed themselves for like 5k with a 35 sec cd. >_>:

Are you talking about the livestream? I didn’t see it. Do you have the link please?

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/3352860

Heal previews start at about 34:15.

Aaaaaaaand it’s still crap. Not the completely unusable garbage people thought it was going to be, but still uninspired, attached to a kittenty utility line, and leagues below what other classes got (except for necro, who got screwed pretty hard between the data mined stats and the preview incarnation). It’ll be a novelty for venom share builds, and a waste of 25 skill points (how does a PvP player get those, anyway?) for everyone involved.

they said “venoms WERE almost there”….

2 things wrong with this…3 if u count the fact devs dont play thief.

1) venoms are never even close to “there”
2) even if they were…this heal wouldnt bring them their.

venoms are built around the fact that you have to sacrifice a whole build setup, traitline , armors runes and sigils just to use. then even when you do…u activate them and sit there like an kitten for 45 seconds hoping you dont die bc of the lack of defense. all venoms should be on 20-25 seconsd timer max. MAX.

compare basilisk venom to any other stun in game. its the worst one. ….if not THE worst ONE of the worst. seriously. joke. scale venom? sure but wont work in power builds. so many problems with venoms.

they should be made so they are good without venomshare. soooo bad. so lame. wont use. thanks for hte laughs tho.

All the venom share thing is something that feels off of the thief role. I mean, thief is a tactical profession that need moving constantly to increase it performance, all the array of thief skills (even traps) works around this concepts except venoms, witch are passive skills that bring too little tactical output. Hearing the way of devs talks about iniciative and what they want for support thief, and waching the example they put in the livestream, i guess they want to thief become the hetchmen of other classes but warrior, for them (warriors) thief should become mere minions to power itself up. Is a saddly way to balance a rogue class/profession if you ask me.

And no, I WILL NOT GOING TO BECOME A MERE HETCHMEN, sorry, i want to be a an assessin villian or a thief hero, if i cant, then i will become a mad scientist with my eengi or a mighty paladin with my guardi. Venomus aura is just a good theory, a nice idea, a curious built to play some days of lazzynes in wvw or pve, but it can be taken seriously like a thief class way of play.

And finally, how anet think to bring more builts diversity to the thief meta giving us a skill that only work in one specific build? hmm, has no sence for me.

Travlane.5948:

they said “venoms WERE almost there”….

2 things wrong with this…3 if u count the fact devs dont play thief.

1) venoms are never even close to “there”
2) even if they were…this heal wouldnt bring them their.

venoms are built around the fact that you have to sacrifice a whole build setup, traitline , armors runes and sigils just to use. then even when you do…u activate them and sit there like an kitten for 45 seconds hoping you dont die bc of the lack of defense. all venoms should be on 20-25 seconsd timer max. MAX.

compare basilisk venom to any other stun in game. its the worst one. ….if not THE worst ONE of the worst. seriously. joke. scale venom? sure but wont work in power builds. so many problems with venoms.

they should be made so they are good without venomshare. soooo bad. so lame. wont use. thanks for hte laughs tho.

I’m saying they should make the venomshare base, if your going to balance venom around a single trait, why do we have to spent 30 points in for it

Viking Jorun.5413:

So, something to note from the livestream is that it has a 4k individual heal PLUS 4 stacks of skelk venom which have a 650 base heal, giving you well over HiS’s heal with support opportunity.

It’s not what the tooltip says.

frans.8092:

Viking Jorun.5413:

So, something to note from the livestream is that it has a 4k individual heal PLUS 4 stacks of skelk venom which have a 650 base heal, giving you well over HiS’s heal with support opportunity.

It’s not what the tooltip says.

But it’s what the devs showed us on the stream, so….

Maesk.8753:

frans.8092:

Viking Jorun.5413:

So, something to note from the livestream is that it has a 4k individual heal PLUS 4 stacks of skelk venom which have a 650 base heal, giving you well over HiS’s heal with support opportunity.

It’s not what the tooltip says.

But it’s what the devs showed us on the stream, so….

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/06/gw2-pvp-developer-livestream-notes/

4.3k initial heal x 4 charges of shelk venom which heal for 685 each.
Untraited its nothing special. Traited it could be amazing for venom share builds assuming you dont miss and lose charges.

edit: Traited:
2 stacks of might on each party member
5k heal to each party member + 4k on self
36sec cooldown
1750dmg from each party member(not sure how it scales with power)

Did they even think about comparing this to, say, an untraited engi healing turret which has a larger radius, and provides regen until needed and then when used provides burst healing (2500 base), condition removal, and a 2 second water field (lets be honest, if you’re coordinated enough to hit more than 1 ally with venom share you could blast finish that water field at least twice instead) all on a 20 second CD. Not a single trait needed for at least the same effectiveness.

While we’re comparing benefits of traiting to help allies as well, lets look at eles soothing mist which is base 800 passive regen every 10 seconds (that’s 3600 health in the same timeframe) on a much larger radius on a minor adept trait.

This skill falls way short of the mark especially if I’m giving up survivability or dps to take it in such a niche build.