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Posted by: infantrydiv.1620

infantrydiv.1620

well we will have to wait and see . . . but it i’m honestly tired of playing a game where constantly keeps nerfing the only profession i like.

I mean . . . it’s cool that ranger, engi received some buffs . . . . but why! just why the hardest profession to kill for a thief receive a significant buff against us! WHY?

Ha, like engies use utility goggles.

Ranger//Necro

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

Time to answer in order.

Ranger and Thief
Thief
Ranger
Ranger and Thief
Ranger
No class that I’m aware of
Thief

I shall reply in order:

- Actually you do, and they have posted telling other rangers that thieves really aren’t that much of a problem for the profession. This was over a year ago and I am not about to look through the forums to find it. Oh and they are still posting….
What did thieves get in that timeframe? A post saying that a bug was being fixed and another developer telling us that a 33% increase to natural initiative regen coupled with a 50% ini gain nerf was considered a buff. Learn both of your professions.

- Yay got one right!

- That is complete bull. Rangers have good healing and condition cleanse up the kitten and you know it. Healing Spring? Have you ever tried using your finishers in it? I would kill to have that skill on my thief all the time instead of that crappy healing venom. Hell, I would love to have it on every other toon except my warrior because it is fine with what it has.

- You don’t have crappy traits at all. Look at skirmishing as an example. Not only is it great for rotations (something thieves don’t do), its great for your pet and it doesn’t completely focus on one part of your profession. Also Venoms and their traits say hi. Trap traits (and traps themselves), combined training, panic strike, concealed defeat, slowed pulse, power shots, patience, assassin’s retreat, assassin’s reward, fleet of foot, quick recovery and trickster also say hi.

- I am sorry, but last time I checked the only trait capable of intentionally screwing over a player in this game was Hard to Catch. And Anet moving it to Master tier because they “felt it was too hard to get to” showed how much they knew about the profession: next to nothing. “Let’s make suicide more accessable.”

- When you are on the low tier of the HP pools, it is a good idea to make sure you have plenty of decent healing and condition cleanse, something thieves don’t have, to stay alive. Guards have the most access to light fields and can do some pretty good healing without traiting too heavily into it. Elementalist has access to alot of healing as well as a few water fields and some blast finishers and they don’t have to trait much at all. The best healing I found on thieves so far without having to trait at all was d/d SB with Signet of Malice. But you have to burn your initiative constantly to keep HPS up and that will kill a thief. Or you could trait for all the heals, be useless and die anyways.

- That’s 2 out of 7. Well you tried.

I feel you should talk to my buddy SilvSonic. He is a Ranger theorycrafter with the same level of experience and temper as I am with thief. Basically the ranger version of me . You should give him a call and have him clear up a few misconceptions about the ranger profession. Just don’t mention the words “bear” or “bow” because that will make him rage.

stuff

Oh boy! A forum noob coming on here and telling someone else who has played a profession at least 10x more than him that said guy has no idea what he is talking about.

Yes. It would be nice you have some use in a zerg that doesn’t involve solo skrub ganking and stealth bot.

I don’t know about you, but most of these have more and arguably better effects at the same CD than Shadow Step and RoI. I can think of 5 between the 2 professions that I would love to trade Haste and Infiltrator’s Signet for.

Not as much as thieves. Venoms, traps and their traits say hi.

At least your’s (if you actually have one) doesn’t kill you.

Yes. Reset. Outside sources. You nailed it you just don’t realize it yet.

Oh, I don’t know. Go to my posts, click on page 50 and start reading to find out.

I’m sorry when did you start playing thief? Like… I have been on a thief since about a month past launch. I have had plenty of good ideas posted on this subforum and have earned enough respect from people who actually play the profession to throw my opinion around.

But then you pop in from the ele forum and call me a “rerolling noob”?
1/10 You suck at trolling.

Warriors are now a casual class. Who cares if they sucked in the past.

Elementalists have 20 weapon skills available at one time but most of them stay in one attunment and spam from a distance. That’s why they are bad.

And I know a ranger theorycrafter that says something completely different. Maybe you should go talk to him too.

(edited by Zacchary.6183)

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

I dont get the issue. thieves are already good even with the many nerfs you had. suck it up and continue eating other zerkers for breakfast, lunch and dinner because why go any other class specced for zerker when a theif can just instagib the other zerkers no problem. Quit your qq’ing you theives. Its not like revealed has ever been a problem anyway when you can just run away and wait for it, and go back to hiding and backstabbing, flanking strike or pistol whip the enemy to death

Strong hate why don’t you play thief then?

I do play one FYI, do you?
I’m just saying how many the thieves QQ over the smallest thing that’s not even a major issue. A high skilled thief versus another equally skilled zerker class has a higher chance of winning. The class has so many ways to save themselves and reset fights. Plus a great damage output. You can’t deny how much utility this class has at their disposal.

That’s the role of the class to reset if anything goes wrong it was build for that because of the initiative system. Most of the thieves will have utilities for resetting the fight (SR,Shadowstep…) and the damage comes from set,gear and traits because usually you’re screwed if you don’t have a way to reset. What good thief doesn’t have something to reset?I can definitely see my self using SB more now since every class might get 6 sec revealed skill but no one better complain about the resetting in those future times.

It’s not a higher chance of winning it’s doing what your foe can’t let me explain : this whole zerker thing is to kill your foe first by building high damage output for so called high risk high reward but any thief with a brain know other zerkers will usually not have a way to regain the lost health or endurance that’s the window other zerkers forgot they have you dot have sustain for that if the thieves builds out full damage no resetting the same thing would happen vs reset thief.

If you are not constantly hitting them and not healing or buffing while not attacking you give them advantage that why war is good Healing Signet+Adrenal Health keeps working when then that thief is resetting or when the war is blocking or uses a stance. You created a window for them and they like it zerker or not.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Mayama.1854

Mayama.1854

That’s the role of the class to reset if anything goes wrong it was build for that because of the initiative system. Most of the thieves will have utilities for resetting the fight (SR,Shadowstep…) and the damage comes from set,gear and traits because usually you’re screwed if you don’t have a way to reset. What good thief doesn’t have something to reset?I can definitely see my self using SB more now since every class might get 6 sec revealed skill but no one better complain about the resetting in those future times.

The problem is that with all those ini regen traits, initiative became almost meaningless. Thieves are meant to reset fights, yes thats true but at its also designed so that you have to deside between spending your initative on aggression or defense. Right now thats totaly screwed because of the over the top initiative regen.

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Posted by: Okaishi.8320

Okaishi.8320

I really wish they’d have taken a different approach to stealth counters though. Anyone who thinks 2000 range instant cast unavoidable hard counters promotes skillful counterplay is just joking himself. Doesn’t matter whether people actually end up slotting it or not, the idea is very poorly executed at its roots.

Member of TUP on Gandara

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Posted by: vincecontix.1264

vincecontix.1264

I really wish they’d have taken a different approach to stealth counters though. Anyone who thinks 2000 range instant cast unavoidable hard counters promotes skillful counterplay is just joking himself. Doesn’t matter whether people actually end up slotting it or not, the idea is very poorly executed at its roots.

Exactly! Though most won’t slot as part of there regular build a lot will put b4 engaging a thief. Also players will slot it on after engaging or getting wrecked by a thief.

At the very lest Anet should allow it to be dodged or make reveal skills ground targeting.

Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: Pugsley.9627

Pugsley.9627

I have played thief in wvw mostly roaming for about 1800 hours. I started playing my ranger a few months ago not sure how many hours but more then 800. If thief does not get a few more options with its eventual balance then yes these reveal powers will be ridiculously overpowered at 6 seconds.

Possible future thief balance changes might include the ability to trait into less reveal time. Who knows, until every class has had this balance treatment we have no idea where thief will end up.

But as a long time thief player, I expect a lot of the QQ posts to get the obligatory learn to play responses for a while. From other thieves and from the rangers drinking the tears and lurking here in the thief forum.

Things thieves can do to survive through a reveal.

1. Pay attention and know when you are revealed. can’t stress this enough.
2. are you in melee? evade/teleport los
3. are you at range? evade/teleport los reflect
4. accept the fact you will not be able to troll as well as you could before when one
uplevel brings sic em or util goggles.
5. Consider building a bit of tough/vit if you keep getting wrecked.

As someone who enjoys both sides of this coin, I don’t plan to stop thieving with these new changes and look forward to the balance yet to come.

Server: TC
80: Ranger x2 Guard x2 Thief Necro Engi Ele War Mesmer

(edited by Pugsley.9627)

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

At the very lest Anet should allow it to be dodged or make reveal skills ground targeting.

With gt think what would happen vs Shadow Refuge.

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Posted by: vincecontix.1264

vincecontix.1264

At the very lest Anet should allow it to be dodged or make reveal skills ground targeting.

With gt think what would happen vs Shadow Refuge.

Its better than a completely unavoidable skill. We also need to consider the buffs to rangers lb.The knock back and rapid fire channels and follow a thief even after stealthing.

Lots of thiefs have already experienced the heavy damage from rapid fire after stealthing its gonna worse after patch.

Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

The problem is that with all those ini regen traits, initiative became almost meaningless. Thieves are meant to reset fights, yes thats true but at its also designed so that you have to deside between spending your initative on aggression or defense. Right now thats totaly screwed because of the over the top initiative regen.

It wasn’t over the top even before Dec 10th when they decided to nerf the profession by 33%. Everyone who didn’t play thief thought it was over the top because spamming.

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

Its better than a completely unavoidable skill. We also need to consider the buffs to rangers lb.The knock back and rapid fire channels and follow a thief even after stealthing.

Lots of thiefs have already experienced the heavy damage from rapid fire after stealthing its gonna worse after patch.

Come on, a ground target reveal is unavoidable more than it will be the new Sic’Em/Analyze.

You put shadow refuge on the ground, Analyze/Sic’em GT on it, gg. It’d render THE must have skill for 95%+ of thief builds completely useless, with no counter. At least, as it is now you can see before entering stealth that you have the Revealed debuff up for 6 seconds (and you need to be not stealthed to apply it).

The GT one would pull thieves out of stealth after they entered it, so it’d be much worse.

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

It wasn’t over the top even before Dec 10th when they decided to nerf the profession by 33%. Everyone who didn’t play thief thought it was over the top because spamming.

This.

The changes to initiative regen nerfed the regen of trickery specced thieves, it’s a known and proven fact. They gave a little boost to all the others, but overall it was clearly a nerf.

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Posted by: MarauderShields.6830

MarauderShields.6830

I really wish they’d have taken a different approach to stealth counters though. Anyone who thinks 2000 range instant cast unavoidable hard counters promotes skillful counterplay is just joking himself. Doesn’t matter whether people actually end up slotting it or not, the idea is very poorly executed at its roots.

I would be cool about a cone (450 range) or something. You’d still need skill and anticipate the thief’s movement, so dishing out the subsequent burst feels more rewarding for the attacker and more deserved for the thief.

Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

It wasn’t over the top even before Dec 10th when they decided to nerf the profession by 33%. Everyone who didn’t play thief thought it was over the top because spamming.

This.

The changes to initiative regen nerfed the regen of trickery specced thieves, it’s a known and proven fact. They gave a little boost to all the others, but overall it was clearly a nerf.

Actually only 1 weaponset got buffed and that was p/d. D/D remained mostly untouched but the rest suffered.

Let’s not forget the immediate exodus from the profession after the update. In fact, I deleted mine because I felt that Anet needed a wake up call. You can call it over the top all you want.

I knew that if people followed me into oblivion (which they did), their numbers would drop and they would see they went a bit too far. The next update, a venom heal. That didn’t work. Then we get on-revealed traits (Travlane’s and my idea), half damage taken in stealth and heal on crit. And that was enough to bring part of the exodus back.

FYI This is the earliest post I made with a little proof that I deleted my thief. The thread where I originally said I deleted my thief was removed because “it was an i quit thread”. coughbullkittencough

(edited by Zacchary.6183)

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

Yeah, but I wasn’t going into the old discussion about which “build” overall got buffed by the change, I was referring just to ini regen with trickery line or without it.

I didn’t delete my thief at the time, but indeed I quit before that patch, and came back a couple weeks ago after 8 months of not playing at all.

It’s really sad to see that things haven’t changed much thou, especially on the forum where we can still read random rants and whines made by players who, after all this time, haven’t still understood how thief is played and its inherent mechanics, thinking that it’s just a facerotflstomp class.

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

At least they are too afraid to come onto the thief forums and complain, eh?

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

The current PvP meta is S/D. Revealed means very little there. No impact.

It is a much bigger impact in WvW where people use D/P and P/D more.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Is this Anet’s way of making those horrible skills appealing?

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: TheBandicoot.5294

TheBandicoot.5294

There are a lot of rangers running regen condition builds, and as a thief its hard to come by without being eaten apart, so losing a 1v1 vs ranger isnt as bad as you try to make it. Power Rangers may be susceptible to blinds, but when not playing cheapmode you have to watch your step as a thief. Especially in 1v1 rangers are not that much of a bottom feeder. Just go to Obsidian Sanctum. There aren´t many Rangers, but there are Rangers. Just don´t isist on beating any thief when you run a zerg build. Most thieves are geared towards dueling because thats the only thing thieves really can do, and even there are much more dangerous classes/builds.

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Posted by: Mayama.1854

Mayama.1854

Its a nerf for WvW because in tPvP you can always hide around a corner when you have that debuff. In my oppinion a better approach would be to lower the over the top high end power scaling of thieves and rework broken sigils like air and fire because both are the reasons why a thief can crit someone with 2,8k armor for half his hp in WvW.

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Posted by: TheBandicoot.5294

TheBandicoot.5294

And a thief doing so is made out of thin glass, has blown most offensive CD´s, and the target is at lowest or medium tier of health. Thus its balanced. Those sigils brought power specs back into the lower area of viability because of those insane condition spamming tanks out there. lower power scaling for thieves would just make power thieves unplayable in the current meta. if anything, the nerfs to critical damage should be reverted. Then you can safely return air and fire sigils back to their former state.

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Posted by: Bryzy.2719

Bryzy.2719

Is this Anet’s way of making those horrible skills appealing?

Yep, they’re basically just trying to polish a poo.

We need completely new profession mechanics to make the Ranger a more viable class, but in reality I can’t see that ever happening.

New nerf coming . . .

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Posted by: Mayama.1854

Mayama.1854

And a thief doing so is made out of thin glass, has blown most offensive CD´s, and the target is at lowest or medium tier of health. Thus its balanced. Those sigils brought power specs back into the lower area of viability because of those insane condition spamming tanks out there. lower power scaling for thieves would just make power thieves unplayable in the current meta. if anything, the nerfs to critical damage should be reverted. Then you can safely return air and fire sigils back to their former state.

Well yeah its the freaking power creep, alot of those sigils (condi too) need to get a rework. Its not only about thieves, a fresh air ele can almost global someone from 900 range for example.

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

Its a nerf for WvW because in tPvP you can always hide around a corner when you have that debuff. In my oppinion a better approach would be to lower the over the top high end power scaling of thieves and rework broken sigils like air and fire because both are the reasons why a thief can crit someone with 2,8k armor for half his hp in WvW.

Eviscerate’s 3.0 coefficient and Kill Shot’s 3.25 coefficient would like to say hi.

New nerf coming . . .

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Posted by: vincecontix.1264

vincecontix.1264

There is already enough counterplay to stealth.

1. melee AA attacks

2. Aoe attacks

3. Channeling abilites eg. ranger rapid fire, war kill shot/volley

Players can prevent a thief from stealthing in the first place by using cc, daze and stun. Also conditions still do damage even while thief is stealth.

Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: Prysin.8542

Prysin.8542

Well my thief wants a hardcounter vs med guards. I Do Not want to have to outplay them anymore. I want an easy way. A skill that prevents any blocks for 6sec. Instant, 1200range Minimum.
Or a utility that converts direct dmg to lifeleech, very nice against mrpassive (warrior).
Yea, lets wait for thieves skill bar. Maybe we get something Like this. Or Maybe just another nerf.

you got such skill, its called, wait for it, venoms. Or even more fun, the knockdown trap (that one is hillarious. not that good, but hillarious)….

i found a lulz combo to beat down medi guards with, i’m a relatively crap thief, and the medi guard werent that good either (i play ranger, medi guard, thief and sometimes non-metabuild warrior)…. knockdown trap, torment + poison venom + daggerstorm. Then just pistolwhip spam em to death. If they start doing damage to you, D/P blind spam ftw.

Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU

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Posted by: Azawrath.7304

Azawrath.7304

I’m starting to like this Zacchary player…

Azawrath the Silent – Thief
Primi Agminis Legio [PAL]
Yaks Bend

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

I made a zerker lb/read the wind ranger for taking out thieves. “sic em” is VERY good as is. I get the occasional thief who trys dodge/evade spamming out the reveal time but rapid fire is good for tracking when used just as the reveal is ending. 6seconds is just abusive/ overkill.

This update (if all changes go through) will make me a monster not just to thieves, but to everyone. People under 3k armor/20k hp will drop before they can think “where is all this damage coming from?”

Oh and if im not mistaken “sic em” is 2000range not 1200, pairs nicely with longbow ;-)

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Can we seriously all wait after thief skill bar and leave the whining threads dead until then and I am pretty sure Dire thieves exist in well in WWW and SB is always equipped no matter what thief.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: T raw.4658

T raw.4658

I made a zerker lb/read the wind ranger for taking out thieves. “sic em” is VERY good as is. I get the occasional thief who trys dodge/evade spamming out the reveal time but rapid fire is good for tracking when used just as the reveal is ending. 6seconds is just abusive/ overkill.

This update (if all changes go through) will make me a monster not just to thieves, but to everyone. People under 3k armor/20k hp will drop before they can think “where is all this damage coming from?”

Oh and if im not mistaken “sic em” is 2000range not 1200, pairs nicely with longbow ;-)

That much damage that fast and at that range is POOR development decisions

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Posted by: RlyOsim.2497

RlyOsim.2497

Just you guys wait until perplexity terrormancers get a reveal, I’ll need a keg to keep all those tears in!

On a more serious note, the thief class is for the most part fine to fight against. However, the small percentage of thief players running troll-builds has steadily grown over the past weeks and the outcry about it has increased accordingly. Surely it is obvious recently that the nerf hammer was swiftly on the way to the thief class: when the entire agency of a fight is dependent upon one person there is a problem.

I hope you guys don’t get hit too hard but adjustments need to be made and it seems, as a non-thief main, that providing classes with access to revealed seems like a suitable place to start.

The Ghost of Christmas Past

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Posted by: TheBandicoot.5294

TheBandicoot.5294

Mayama, that is the offset for being glassy. if you are glassy, you literally always have to expect being nuked by other glassy builds. The problem in this game isnt the power creep, but the reason why it is needed. We have a Meta where even guardians (!) start to decide to go condition tank instead of bursty medi. Thus, power based specs need all the firepwower they can get, and ever since the change to %critdamage, exactly that was lacking. The change to air / fire sigils just brought back the firepower power specs had and should have maintained.

If anything, something must be done about the way conditions work. A condition tank will always do almost the same damage as a full berserker – while his damage has various effects instead of just taking life away, and completely ignores armor.

Only then nerfing the so called power creepwould be justified. But the amount of tanks and especially condition tanks is out of hand, thus power creep is nonexistant.

New nerf coming . . .

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Mayama, that is the offset for being glassy. if you are glassy, you literally always have to expect being nuked by other glassy builds. The problem in this game isnt the power creep, but the reason why it is needed. We have a Meta where even guardians (!) start to decide to go condition tank instead of bursty medi. Thus, power based specs need all the firepwower they can get, and ever since the change to %critdamage, exactly that was lacking. The change to air / fire sigils just brought back the firepower power specs had and should have maintained.

If anything, something must be done about the way conditions work. A condition tank will always do almost the same damage as a full berserker – while his damage has various effects instead of just taking life away, and completely ignores armor.

Only then nerfing the so called power creepwould be justified. But the amount of tanks and especially condition tanks is out of hand, thus power creep is nonexistant.

I would love playing condition freely in pve but personally power or zerker are the best for pve and zerging the amout of condition tank is reflective of them not having an equal role in pve. People complaining or not liking tanks in www or pvp should look at their numbers in pve.

On topic not all thieves are glassy or weak out of stealth and we have yet to see our changes.

Edit: You will most likely not see usage of celestial stats in pve so far from my point of view pve is glass zerker meta and www is condition tank meta.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

(edited by Sagat.3285)

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Posted by: MarauderShields.6830

MarauderShields.6830

Just you guys wait until perplexity terrormancers get a reveal, I’ll need a keg to keep all those tears in!

On a more serious note, the thief class is for the most part fine to fight against. However, the small percentage of thief players running troll-builds has steadily grown over the past weeks and the outcry about it has increased accordingly. Surely it is obvious recently that the nerf hammer was swiftly on the way to the thief class: when the entire agency of a fight is dependent upon one person there is a problem.

I hope you guys don’t get hit too hard but adjustments need to be made and it seems, as a non-thief main, that providing classes with access to revealed seems like a suitable place to start.

And you know what will happen? More, if not all, thieves migrate to S/D. It’s ok, they don’t use super trolly OP stealth, right?

WRONG.

People will again call for nerfs and 1-button hardcounters against “OP evade spam, needs counterplay”.

Look at the forum, it has already started.

Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.

New nerf coming . . .

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Posted by: TheBandicoot.5294

TheBandicoot.5294

Hah. Its funny because how many people actually don´t seem to know that playing S/D properly isnt something you can call easy. You need to bring various skills regarding positioning, knowledge and prediction. Also there are lots of builds floating around which aren´t directly countered by S/D but instead pose high threat to this set.
Some of them have to be kited around with the shortbow 90% of the time.

But yes, the outcry will finally shift away from stealth to evades, because ya know – playing S/D on a thief equals spamming evades all the time. Always. There is no S/D thief timing dodges for the important stuff. There is no S/D thief playing the mindgame with various teleports, in-and-out-ambushes or the occasional stealth. And of course all S/D thieves are using cheap noobbuilds, TEEF OP nerf plox, whatever you name it.

And of course playing 20066 since steal can be traited to daze is playing just the noob Meta because some “known” tPvP thief has “found” it half a year later. The river of tears won´t end and i guess it´d be better i simply learn to ignore it.

New nerf coming . . .

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Posted by: Mayama.1854

Mayama.1854

Mayama, that is the offset for being glassy. if you are glassy, you literally always have to expect being nuked by other glassy builds. The problem in this game isnt the power creep, but the reason why it is needed. We have a Meta where even guardians (!) start to decide to go condition tank instead of bursty medi. Thus, power based specs need all the firepwower they can get, and ever since the change to %critdamage, exactly that was lacking. The change to air / fire sigils just brought back the firepower power specs had and should have maintained.

If anything, something must be done about the way conditions work. A condition tank will always do almost the same damage as a full berserker – while his damage has various effects instead of just taking life away, and completely ignores armor.

Only then nerfing the so called power creepwould be justified. But the amount of tanks and especially condition tanks is out of hand, thus power creep is nonexistant.

The whole bunker meta exists because of the thief. Its basicaly “all builds that a thief cant 1v1” are in the meta for most classes exept mesmer because of his portals. Others constantly post about eviscerate or engi combo doing more damage than a thief opener in defense of the thief. But they usually forget that the first thief burst is unavoidable. If you want to have a healthy meta with burst classes valiable for every spec you have to nerf the thief down to where the other professions are. Its just not good for the whole game that one class has the best mobility, best unavoidable burst and is on a completly different level defense wise.

The engi/ranger buff hits WvW thieves way harder than in PvP and thats a good thing because most of the thief hate comes from WvW. Fighting endlesly resetting thieves that live through millions of kitten ups and hit like a truck thanks to stacks and food makes people rage.

New nerf coming . . .

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Posted by: TheBandicoot.5294

TheBandicoot.5294

How do you suppose ArenaNet to bring a thief down to other professions when its already placed somewhere in the middle? Take the brust from a thief and what is left then?

The first thief burst is NOT unavoidable. When you see a thief go stealth, you exactly know what will happen next. When you dont see it go stealth, well, thats called surprise. And a thief is balanced around this moment of surprise since it doesnt have any good passive defensive mechanics. The first gripe people have with thief is that most still dont know how to properly handle a stealthed opponent. And the second gripe is that people only see a battle as success when opponent is dead. But that is not the case. A battle is won when you forced the opponent into retreat. A thief came back at you after resetting the fight 5 times, finally won at his sixth try because you made a mistake or because he had luck? well, then he has won one time. You have won five times. This is most prominent in WvW of course. And in all honesty – people rage because of thieves resetting fights at will? Well, lets talk with all those moments where a thief happens to engage you in a 1v1 and suddenly a wild member of your server appears… and another one… and another one… and another two…

Thief doesnt have the best mobility. If you ever tried to outrun a warrior or ele (especially those with FGS), you´d know. Only because of stealth you may get away because there´s 360° of directions you can take without being seen, but mobility-wise other classes offer more.

And about the defense… its been talked to death, really. CnD is easily avoidable and a thief only has so many teleports to prepare CnD from range. BP-Shot + HS combo is expensive. And utilities are on a lengthy cooldown. What else does a stealth-based thief have to defend himself? In a fair duel there is no resetting, and open WvW a fleeing thief is a thief you won against. This comes from a thief playing S/D while still using CnD frequently.

Aunt EDIT says: Obviously i´m talking power builds here. I refuse to even use a crane to touch condition builds. There is nothing more skilless than playing a condition spamming walking fortress of any profession. And as long as those exist please dont you dare to nerf any direct damage even further as you can barelay tickle PU Balth Condi Mesmers, Perplexity Terrormancers, Pointholding Perplexity Engis, Perplexity Shaman Eles, Condi Hybrid Warriors, Regen Condi Rangers and whatnot. The effort a honest, not cheap playing thief has to put into killing such builds is much much more than the effort such a condition tank has to put into killing a power thief, even when said thief is loaded with condition cleanse via Shadow´s Embrace, Pain Reaction, Hide in Shadows, Signet of Precision, Lyssa Runes and Sigils of Purity and Generosity. You may clenase more this way but then the damage lacks.

(edited by TheBandicoot.5294)

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Posted by: Prysin.8542

Prysin.8542

the bunker meta is not directly because of thieves, it is because it takes EFFORT to play a glass build. you have to pay attention, not just afk on node. Thieves do push bad players into this sort of role, however the bad players then resist good players on other toons with ease, forcing good players to bunker down to kill the bunkers.

As to those claiming “thief is the only class able to zerk in PvP”. No they are not. Longbow rangers (you need skill to play glassbow, i know, it’s insane that you should need skill to play a GW2 build) will easily kill even a good thief, however like with every darn encounter there is between thief and ranger (regardless of builds) first to land a hit is 90% sure to be the victor.

Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU

New nerf coming . . .

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Posted by: Hurtappl.6405

Hurtappl.6405

•Message Body length must at least be 15.

XD

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

the bunker meta is not directly because of thieves, it is because it takes EFFORT to play a glass build. you have to pay attention, not just afk on node. Thieves do push bad players into this sort of role, however the bad players then resist good players on other toons with ease, forcing good players to bunker down to kill the bunkers.

As to those claiming “thief is the only class able to zerk in PvP”. No they are not. Longbow rangers (you need skill to play glassbow, i know, it’s insane that you should need skill to play a GW2 build) will easily kill even a good thief, however like with every darn encounter there is between thief and ranger (regardless of builds) first to land a hit is 90% sure to be the victor.

All glass zerkers are sneaky I fought this zerker engi using smoke combo field to stealth and surprise me with burst. That was unexpected but all glass zerker should be creative even pew pew or disengage.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Azawrath.7304

Azawrath.7304

I’ll be completely fine with these buffs to other classes if the thief gets a little more love, possibly rework some traits… cough cough Hard to Catch, Assassin Reward, and like the other 20 useless traits.

Azawrath the Silent – Thief
Primi Agminis Legio [PAL]
Yaks Bend

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Posted by: johnpoc.8732

johnpoc.8732

I it can be useful for group/small scale fights but when solo roaming I wouldn’t ever change my kits for Utility goggles. I play a power engineer and we already have it light against thieves.
I’m really wondering why the counter stealth skill was added to an engineer and not to another class

Lockn Loada/Ryu Shueki
[RUN] solo/duo roamer

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Posted by: Domey.9804

Domey.9804

After all im glad that These skills are on ranger and engineer. Imagine guardian and warrior Had a skill Like this → Instant 40hours of revealed stacked on your thief because the whole blob wants to See you dead.

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Posted by: Pugsley.9627

Pugsley.9627

reveal does not stack but it can have it’s counter reset.
first ranger uses sic em. thief has 4 second of reveal, 2nd ranger uses it 1 second into reveal. Reveal is overwritten by 2nd sic em. so you can layer them but they do not stack.
Ten rangers hitting sic em at nearly the same time would only place a 4 second reveal on the target.

Server: TC
80: Ranger x2 Guard x2 Thief Necro Engi Ele War Mesmer