Guild Wars 2

New to class after playing a ranger and engineer (go figure). Wanted a WvW roaming class for when I am off hours with guild.

Having a bit more than a bit of trouble understanding how to be effective.

Classic d/p sb build at 0 30 30 10 0 0 focusing on healing skills in SA.

1) TRAITS:

Struggling with what traits to use on shadow adapt. Shadow Protector (regen using now). Infusion of shadow or cloaked in shadow (for the blind) seem excellent too.

Anyone want to lay down the meta and why a new player should look at one vs the other?

Struggling with adept in critical strikes. People are using d/p and the 10% more damage for pistol but wouldn’t the 7% flanking and rear skill be better given most damage is from the dagger?

2) STATS

What stats are acceptable or desired? My build wound up with about 16k health 2600 armor, 3k power, 50% precision and 85% crit damage with food.

Sensible? I used Valk armor, Zerk weapons, Knight’s trinkets w zerk jewels.

3) UTILITIES

Because I have Traveler runes, I have 3 open slots.
Shadow Refuge is a no brainer
Then. . .
Blinding Powder (emergency stealth)
Shadow Step (is this really being used for condi removal or to get in range?)

But isn’t the assassin’s signet insanely good if it stacks on top of all the other damage mods?

4) PLAYSTYLE: MAKING STEALTH WORK

So this is a basic “perma stealth” type build, but I swear I don’t see how.
I can shadow refuge and build to 15 seconds that makes sense.
I have black powder/heartseeker but that is just 2 seconds (I can’t figure out how anyone gets 2 leaps much less 3 in)

What is the trick to staying in stealth? It is great but short in my experience.

5) PLAYSTYLE: LEAPING IN BLACK POWDER

Explain how this works. I keep trying to get a second or third leap in and there is just no way. Maybe I am too old and my reflexes too slow. But seriously, is there an easy way to learn this?

6) PLAYSTYLE: BURSTING DAMAGE

I am struggling to get off bursts of damage. Any rotations really work well? I tend to SB then swap to a shadow step or steal. I go into stealth with powder/heart seeker but that often messes me up in getting a backstab off.

In short, I am struggling to figure out how to get into range and then how to get off the first backstab not to mention I see thieves doing multiple backstabs.

Also, when do you really use steal?

7) PLAYSTYLE WEAPONS:
Given the swap of the third skill, I wonder why so many are roaming with SB over D/D D/P.

How do you use your SB more effectively (says the ranger who loves bows)?

8) PLAYSTYLE: INITIATIVE
Do you blow your initiative for the burst or hold it back? How do you manage? Do you take traits to increase its regen or pool?

I run out a LOT. If I don’t kill you with my burst, I often have too little left to get away without blowing a utility.

9) PLAYSTYLE: MOVEMENT
I don’t feel like the fastest class in the game to cover a map, but I see other thieves doing it. I use the sb to move and heartseeker is meh ok. But I have no swiftness.

Should I get a source of swiftness and if so what? If not, is the issue with my feeling pokey that I just need better stealth management? (I take the trait that is 50% movement in stealth).

Does swiftness add to this movement in stealth trait?

Well that is a start and thanks for the help.

The new recruit

TRAITS: I would recommend using Shadow’s Embrace (IV) and Infusion of Shadow (V) as your first two traits in SA. SE is so useful in WvW for condition removal and IoS should help with your initiative problems mentioned later – this cuts the initiative cost for BP → HS from 9 to 7.

In CS you have a couple of options – Furious Retaliation (I), Side Strikes (III), Practiced Tolerance (VI), and Critical Haste (X) are the most common in non-signet builds. Assuming that your 30 pt trait is Hidden Killer, PT and CH are the best choices out these imo. You already have a very high crit chance for a Hidden Killer build so the bonus crit chance from the first two aren’t necessary.

STATS: These seem fine mostly. High crit chance for Hidden Killer build so you could think about dropping some precision for vitality/toughness but it’s up to you, how tanky do you want to be?

UTILITIES: The 3 you mentioned are good. Shadowstep should usually be saved in case you get stunned and need a stun breaker but the condition removal and gap closing are good too.

STEALTH: If you’re going to play d/p you kind of need to learn how to do the BP → HS combo better. If you turn with your keyboard this will be basically impossible, learn to turn with your mouse instead. It can also help to pull your camera up as you do the combo – when you look down on your character the length of the HS leap is reduced and it is easier to get multiple leaps in. Maybe look up some d/p roaming videos on youtube to get an idea for how this is done.

It is also worth mentioning that Blinding Powder is a blast finisher, and if you use it in the smoke field from Black Powder (5 skill) you will get bonus stealth.

COMBAT: My typical opener is Steal → BP → HS → BS. This can be easier to land if you precast BP then hit steal right as it’s about to finish – you’ll appear with the blind field instantly on top of the enemy. This will make your combo faster and blinds their first counterattack which might help you land your backstabs.

People mostly use SB for mobility and because it’s nice to have a ranged option. You can use SB 5 to create distance or blink up hills which is really nice for running away. You can also use it to continue pressuring your enemy from a safe distance while you are low on health.

MOVEMENT: I don’t think swiftness is necessary, you should be fast enough with just traveler’s runes + HS + SB 5. Also if you are running 10 in acro you will have swiftness on dodge.

That sums up my thoughts. I’m hardly the best thief on the forums but I do play WvW a lot and have been roaming with d/p for a pretty long time. A lot of it just comes down to practice, if you like the playstyle just keep trying and you should get it down eventually.

1) Typically Infusion of shadows is used. But everyone’s build is different.
The d/p set usually runs the “perma-stealth”, relying on HS+Black Powder combo to enter stealth. From there backstabbing…
Yeah flanking strikes would make more sense. Personally I don’t run this build, I’m a condi p/d in spvp…
There’s loads and loads of builds posted on the forums and on youtube videos. Yishi (I think is he’s name), posts montages were he runs this build and d/d. Watch some of his videos, you might learn something…

2)Um typically full zerker. Then it gets into personal preferences if you want to mix in some Knights and/or Valk. You can do solider/knight mix too.
The thing you’re going to find is you will be giving up a lot of damage for barely noticeable survivability… but yeah try it out.

3) Utility’s are a bit all over the place.
Blinding Powder (yeah, that’s seen in all/most builds)
Infiltrator’s Signet…
Shadow Refuge…
Blinding Powder…
Shadow Step…
Some troll with all signets…
Again find some builds/watch some videos and see what people use and how.

4)The sad truth is, there is no “perma-stealth”. Well, there’s no permanent stealth… all of them run out.
You can, however chain them one after the other before one runs out. This creates the illusion as some morons call “perma-stealth”.
Typically this is done by powder/heartseeker combo, and with enough init regen from infiltrator’s signet and some traits you should be able to keep chaining the stealths together (ofc you might not have lots of init in doing this… but.. hey… it’s OP PERMA STLEATHZ, NERF PLOX)

5) Having the proper traits and utilities that help with init regen helps.. that and facing the camera down when leaping (and not having auto-targeting enabled) also helps.

6)Steal doesn’t break stealth, that I know. typically you’re roaming around… then you see someone you want to engage. at that point init starts to count (how you spend it)… you can get in range by just running up (should be able to by dodge and swiftness from it). at a decent range the person might start to engage you, or not, either way drop BP HS a few times, dodge/get swiftness + steal -> backstab… and then continue the duel.

7) SB is used for general purpose… using Infiltrator’s Arrow to move around. SB also provides good AoE, choking gas and mainly cluster bomb. Disabling Shot for disengaging… or also getting around (face backwards and shoot to go in the direction you want).
Problem with relaying on weapon swapping is, unlike other classes where they swap and all 4 skills are not on CD, we swap and are still limited by the remaining init. So yeah, that’s why most use SB… but there are builds that incorporate weapon swapping.
Personally in sPvP, my SB (p/d and SB) has the Energy sigil on it, because when i get it out, it’s usually to GTFO.

8) You learn to manage it with practice. No real secret here. As you get more comfy with the build/thief, you will manage it better.

9) Expeditious Dodger, in adept trait in Acro, provides plenty of swiftness, coupled with Feline Grace (also acro, master trait). From there chaining the swiftness together.

Swiftness doesn’t stack in “intensity”, but it stacks in duration.

Welcome and best of luck! Put on a rain jacket, because no matter how you play or what you play, there will be a storm of QQ tears.

with your gear you could try d/d d/p. Perma stealth isn’t all its cracked up to be, I run 10/30/0/0/30 (long reach funsies) and I don’t think I’ve ever been caught up to anyway (outside of doing something immensely kittened like not unlocking target).

D/d is great in wvw because there is so much lag that it doesn’t matter if there is some delay after you steal to hit the backstab, and the combo can come out of nowhere whereas blackpowder is a giant signal to everybody around. Not to mention chaining CnD (just doing nothing while stealthed and CnD’ing again when you pop out) lets you survive just as easily as black powder with much less work.

Anyway.. (important points in bold)

Heartseeker: You need traveler runes or signet of shadows (or swiftness?) to use this for mobility. It’s real secret is that it lets you move the same speed whether you are in combat or not making you INCREDIBLY hard to outrun. Great for zerg vs zerg (teleport in, drop target, heartseeker out… shadowstep if some nerd manages to snag you). edit: Turn off auto target and Get GOOD at dropping targets by pressing esc or you will die.. a LOT

Black powder: Don’t go overboard with chaining heartseekers into it. Often all you want to do is heartseeker and hit steal/infiltrators before you land (stealth is granted when you land so it wont break), letting you snag a VERY quick followup backstab. As for chaining… you just heartseeker out of it, then heartseeker back into it and back out of it again. If you are against a wall you can just heartseeker into it over and over and get 4.

Shortbow: I understand that this is a mainstay in spvp, but you won’t find it very useful for roaming in wvw. It is strong against other thieves because surprise shot > cluster bomb will destroy them fairly quickly. For mobility, since you have +movespeed then heartseeker is faster anyway. Afaik you can still glitch into stonemist with teleport so I guess thats a thing to have fun with.

Utilities: Shadowstep never leaves your bar… basically ever. It is an escape first and condi cleanse in emergencies. Other considerations are infiltrator and assassin signet; you will find infiltrator very useful as you start to become a better thief and 180 power is just a flat +6% damage. Blinding powder is overkill, but scorpion wire and shadow refuge can be swapped out depending on what you are doing (refuge for roaming, wire for zergs/siege).

Initiative: You… shouldn’t really be running out unless you are spamming heartseekers for stealth or something (again d/d will be able to chain stealth indefinitely more or less).

Mobility: If you want to move fast… it’s gotta be teleports. Roaming I will often have 4500 range of teleports (sword 2, inf. signet, long reach steal, shadowstep), plus heartseeker to spam if I end up in combat. The only challenge is that you need to find a target for sword/signet/steal to use on.