Guild Wars 2

Hi thiefs! I just managed to reach lv80 yesterday and now I need some answers from more expirienced thief players.

• the build
  What is a good fotm / dungeon build? At the moment I run 25/30/15/0/0. Traited vulnerability on crit, damag with daggers, vita based on precision, pistol dmg, +20% damage against <50% HP mobs aswell cleanse on stealth.
  Is this good enough? Any must have traits??

• the weapons
  It seems like DD/SP is the best in general, DD/PP for single target bosses but I rarely use DP/PD or SD and the shortbow seems to be bad too :s Any combinations I missed?

• the skills
  Can’t decide between stealth heal and signet to heal. Also wtf is wrong with this new healing skill? It heals less than the stealth heal on a longer cd without stealth nor regeneration… wtf??
  Utility Skills seem bad at thief. I mostly run signets and sometimes this sexy cloak skill, projectile absob wall and the blinkblink stunbreaker with a huge cd if required. But all the other skills seem to be very bad. Am I right? :o

• Sword + Pistol 3 very op or bugged??
  It says I stun the enemy and then go frenzy with many hits on cleave. Sounds great but why the hell do I allways get invulnerability when I use it!? It’s like Blurred Frenzy of the Mesmer! Is that a bug? Cuz i just can spam it 4 times and kill most mobs without caring to dodge.

Thanks alot thief friends! I hope I get some answers ^^ greez

No more PvE thiefs exist ?

Xyonon.3987:

No more PvE thiefs exist ?

Just a few

So noone can “help” me here Sad … Thief feels surprisingly strong imo. I’ve just seen DD/Shortbow thiefs in my parties. But SP seems to be the way to go in dungeons. Cleave, perma blind, what do you want more?? Why are there only a few left??? Any overnerfs? ö.O

You can switch weapons around in between combat and a power build can use nearly any weaponset – even P/D, occasionally.
The heals are mostly situational, HiS is a general purpose heal, good in duelling, you see it used in many video’s. I like Withdraw, has a short cooldown, the general heal to take with on-heal traits and runes. Signet of Malice is good with D/D deathblossom, pistolwhip and shortbow clusterspam. With other uses, I’d switch to HiS/Withdraw.

Shadow Refuge is excellent, for ressing players or getting to places unseen and undisturbed (skill challenges, chests, harvesting).
Blinding powder, general purpose oh-kitten, can help other players as well
Caltrops – npc murderer, works nice sith Signet of Malice as well
Thieves guild, in sticky situations (baiting champs)
SoS – basic runspeed, hard to live without it….

25/30/0/0/15 and 10/30/0/0/30 are both my favourites.

First one:
Be flexible, switch traits depending on what you need, thrill of the crime from trickery if your group doesn’t have access to high fury uptime already, otherwise flanking strikes. Might on signet use is good if the situation allows you to use multiple signets, otherwise steady traits like dagger training and 7% crit chance from behind are good options. Traits that increase dual wielding only affects skill #3. Executioner will allow you to dish out maximum dps,

P/P, S/P, D/D, SB.

Second one:
With steal on steoroids you can grant your group good fury and vigor uptime, also this one is great for keeping boons off enemies. With frequent steals you also have some extra sustain from mug from deadly arts.

S/D, S/P, P/P, SB

And how do you handle condition removal?

Xyonon.3987:

And how do you handle condition removal?

Best way to handle conditions is to not get inflicted by them in the first place.
But it’s not always possible to avoid them so these are some good ways.

for some steady removal:
Infiltrator’s Strike>Infiltrator’s Return
Shadowstep
Signet of Agility

bleed, burn poison:
HiS

movement impairing:
Withdraw
Roll for Initiative

I find it very easy to trait the “stealth = condi remove” thing so a 5 of dd cleanse myself, aswell HiS or F1 sometimes. Do I loose too much damage for traiting there?

No, Shadow Arts is quite common in builds and Shadow’s Embrace is almost as common. I think one of the more well know video-thieves switched to Shadow’s Embrace (from Infusion) after the december patch.

Traits wise: If you’re just starting out, I recommend 0/30/30/10/0. Or 10/30/30/0/0.

30 in Shadow Arts gives you some leeway if you fail to dodge in high tier dungeon settings. V, IV, and XI is usually the way to go. I usually go for Venom Share (XII) since Skale Venom would give 15 stacks of vulnerability + torment if stacked for a boss fight.

After you’re comfortable, go for 25/30/15/0/0 or 25/30/0/0/15. I don’t really like 10/30/0/0/30 since it’s more of a PvP oriented build. It’s handy to pop fury for the party but I don’t see that much benefit going for more than 15 in Trickery as opposed to 25 in Deadly Arts. Sundering strikes + mug + 10% more dmg makes you hit like a truck.

Weapons-wise: D/D should rarely be used for dungeons unless you’re fighting a single boss considering there’s way more trash mobs than not. S/P is usually the go to weapon of choice for any trash mob fights. Pop pistol 5 and auto attack is usually the way to go. Your party will usually never take any damage and you Weaken enemies every 3rd strike. Don’t go ranged unless you have to. If you are, shortbow offers way more survivability (which is likely something you need anyways if you have to go ranged). P/P is mostly just underwhelming and usually kills you if bosses have retaliation (which they often do.)

Utility skills: If you have 30 in Shadow Arts, Skale Venom is the venom of choice as discussed earlier. Smoke screen is used for blocking projectiles and Shadow Refuge to heal/res or skipping parts of the dungeon/fotm. Blinding powder also isn’t terrible to have considering it’s a blast finisher and if you’re running 30 in Shadow Arts, it will restore 2 initiative and remove conditions and heal if traited.

The only signet that I use is signet of agility. Refilling endurance and curing a condition in addition to the passive crit boost is huge.

The third utility is most often a break stun skill, always have one if you’re unsure what the encounter will be like. I like Roll for Initiative or Shadowstep. Infiltrator’s signet isn’t really as good as the other two considering it doesn’t cure any other conditions and the passive effect is nearly pointless.

The other 3 venoms are pretty lackluster and traps are often never used for any situation. Shadow Trap is actually slightly useful in some situations and is a pretty fun skill to mess around with. The only real situation where this makes a run faster would be in arah p3 (the orbs part) or swamp fractal (the orbs part again, lol).

The new heal skill is kind of lackluster. If you’re not running Venom Share it’s pretty much inferior to Hide in Shadows and Evade. And even then it’s very situational since party members almost never rely a thief for heals, lol. It has some effectiveness for WvW zerg fights, but otherwise it’s usually never used for PvE.

Xyonon.3987:

Hi thiefs! I just managed to reach lv80 yesterday and now I need some answers from more expirienced thief players.

• the build
  What is a good fotm / dungeon build? At the moment I run 25/30/15/0/0. Traited vulnerability on crit, damag with daggers, vita based on precision, pistol dmg, +20% damage against <50% HP mobs aswell cleanse on stealth.
  Is this good enough? Any must have traits??

Yea, that works, but unless you’re using P/P on a ranged fight, I wouldn’t recommend that talent. If that’s how you’re using it, then you’re good, but just be aware that it doesn’t work on all dual skills, such as Pistol Whip.

Also, if you can get by without the condi removal, then consider putting 15 in Trickery for Thrill of the Crime instead of putting them in Shadow Arts. This will give you significantly more initiative to work with and will increase your dps while also giving your group solid boons.

Personally, I just use Signet of Agility and Hide in Shadows for condition heavy fights, so I’ve never found that investing in Shadow Arts was worthwhile.

Xyonon.3987:

• the weapons
  It seems like DD/SP is the best in general, DD/PP for single target bosses but I rarely use DP/PD or SD and the shortbow seems to be bad too :s Any combinations I missed?

Yea, you pretty much got it. However, the short bow can be good for AoE trash, particularly if it’s very spread out. P/D is really for condition builds and they’re generally less effective than power builds in PvE. D/P is really a great PvP weaponset that is probably one of the worst sets for PvE. S/D is also pretty weak in PvE, although it can be marginally useful against some mobs with boons.

Xyonon.3987:

• the skills
  Can’t decide between stealth heal and signet to heal. Also wtf is wrong with this new healing skill? It heals less than the stealth heal on a longer cd without stealth nor regeneration… wtf??
  Utility Skills seem bad at thief. I mostly run signets and sometimes this sexy cloak skill, projectile absob wall and the blinkblink stunbreaker with a huge cd if required. But all the other skills seem to be very bad. Am I right? :o

Sadly, the new heal is pretty bad. Unless you’re running a full venom share build, it’s straight up worse than any other heal we have and if you’re running a venom share build, then you’re holding yourself back by running a venom share build. =P

However, I generally use either Hide in Shadows or Withdraw. Withdraw is worth considering since it has such a short cooldown for a good amount of healing while also being the only instant heal in the game. However, the condi removal and extra stealth from HiS is great too.

Xyonon.3987:

• Sword + Pistol 3 very op or bugged??
  It says I stun the enemy and then go frenzy with many hits on cleave. Sounds great but why the hell do I allways get invulnerability when I use it!? It’s like Blurred Frenzy of the Mesmer! Is that a bug? Cuz i just can spam it 4 times and kill most mobs without caring to dodge.

There’s an evade with the skill that’s not mentioned in the tooltip. And yes, it is a very awesome weaponset. Overall, the D/D set is the highest dps set for single target, but if you’re cleaving even 1 extra enemy, S/P blows it away. I believe S/P is only about 5% lower dps than D/D with the appropriate traits (Combo Critical Chance, and Combined Training included).

Xyonon.3987:

Thanks alot thief friends! I hope I get some answers ^^ greez

I hope these answers help. =)

Xyonon.3987:

Hi thiefs! I just managed to reach lv80 yesterday and now I need some answers from more expirienced thief players.

• the build
  What is a good fotm / dungeon build? At the moment I run 25/30/15/0/0. Traited vulnerability on crit, damag with daggers, vita based on precision, pistol dmg, +20% damage against <50% HP mobs aswell cleanse on stealth.
  Is this good enough? Any must have traits??

• the weapons
  It seems like DD/SP is the best in general, DD/PP for single target bosses but I rarely use DP/PD or SD and the shortbow seems to be bad too :s Any combinations I missed?

• the skills
  Can’t decide between stealth heal and signet to heal. Also wtf is wrong with this new healing skill? It heals less than the stealth heal on a longer cd without stealth nor regeneration… wtf??
  Utility Skills seem bad at thief. I mostly run signets and sometimes this sexy cloak skill, projectile absob wall and the blinkblink stunbreaker with a huge cd if required. But all the other skills seem to be very bad. Am I right? :o

• Sword + Pistol 3 very op or bugged??
  It says I stun the enemy and then go frenzy with many hits on cleave. Sounds great but why the hell do I allways get invulnerability when I use it!? It’s like Blurred Frenzy of the Mesmer! Is that a bug? Cuz i just can spam it 4 times and kill most mobs without caring to dodge.

Thanks alot thief friends! I hope I get some answers ^^ greez

Fractals doesn’t have 1 set build, you always have to adapt. Instead of looking at 1 good build, look at 1 good adjustable build. Things like venom share + BV come in handy for some bosses for example. You should look at major traits when building and see what things come in handy for the various fractal encounters. If you’ve done fractals enough you will know what you’re looking for. I run 0/30/30/0/10. I can swap to venom share, I can swap between thrill of the crime and flanking strikes, I can swap between hidden thief in the underwater fractal (low water stealth access), more condi removal, more initiative, w/e I may need. Same with CS traits, I can swap to pistol mastery for ranged bosses and concealed defeat for the fire shaman, I find it very flexible for my needs.

Have all weapons, 2 pistols, 2 daggers, sword, sb. Again there is no 1 weapon set for fractals, you need to adjust.

Healing skills are the same as the first 2. I recommend using SoM if you’re going to use pistol whip (only real place I use that is in ascalon fractals added with smoke screen and BPS for the true invul). Nothing like healing up while you evade.

Pistol whip is not bugged, its a description error just like how illusionary leap -> swap is a stun breaker although not listed as such. Pistol whip in pvp is terribly weak and offers only but a rally bot. You have to sacrifice all defenses to get it to do anything significant. It’s good in pve because mobs will sit there and often don’t attack fast enough to know when they can hit you.

Your initial assessment isn’t far off. You can make any weapon set work with a reasonable build in dungeons, and you can swap weapon sets for each fight, so I suppose there’s some sort of balance. You can use acrobatics and shadow arts for more defense as you learn the dungeons and then move more of those points into damage skills later.

Shortbow is useful in dungeons as you will mostly be fighting groups of mobs, the mobility is handy, and the blast finisher is good. Missile defense is vital in dungeons so try using smokescreen. Pistol Whip can be used in dungeons but you might find that the evade segment is too short amongst a number of hard hitting mobs. Smoke and blind may be more reliable.

- One tip: smokescreen + sb blast spam (2) followed by SR before stealth runs out will give your party enough stealth to skip any trash mob. Useful in Arah. SB also has great mobility with #5. Running trash on thief is a breeze.

- SB 2 blast for might stacking if you have fire fields or spam healing in water fields if your party looks about to die (awesome with a ranger healing spring). Swap it out immediately for the actual fight.

- For healing, I mostly use Signet of Malice. I’m almost always at 90%+ health which is useful if you run Scholar runes. SoM + Dagger storm in a mob also becomes a massive heal. Back full health in seconds. Note you heal not only hitting enemies, but also objects.

- Use HiS for trash run heal. Withdraw for extra dodges (on Lupi for example if your group is not organized. You can stick with SoM if everyone is stacking and reflecting and dps is high enough to take him down under 2 min.)

- D/D for single bosses not pushed against walls (golem in CoE for example. I also use it at Grenth on Arah P4 for the little wraiths that pop everywhere.). If your group is corner or wall stacking it can be hard to get those back stabs in.

- Thieves Guild is situational. You can use it at CoF gate to burst it down in seconds, destroyer boss in CoE to help your party burst it down in one go.

- Pistol Whip is an evade, not invuln. So be careful with confusion stacks or retaliation buffs. (rare but happens.)

Basically, just swap traits and utilities and weapons as you need them. You’ll find that one set never works for everything.

Every class can be “OP” in most PvE content, simply cause most PvE is too easy.

Thief is great for niche scenarios but it isn’t the best overall, I main thief, but when I go on my stupid warrior, I do way more with way less effort (more durability, AoE damage, AoE buffs, AoE cond removals, AoE heals and similar mobility).

Thx to everyone for all the answers!

I just noticed yesterday with my rl mate who plays an ele: his fire field and sb 2 spam is kinda fun I have to say thief is pretty sexy in PvE, I don’t know why there are just a few of ’em

btw: +7% crit from behind or more vita per precision? I prefer 2nd since 10 or 11.5k HP makes a huge difference o.o Also Rings? Atm got ascended Power, Precision, Vita, Crit and one (found an infused one that’s why I use it) Power Toughness and a 3rd main stat (prec or crit i beleve). Shall I really go full zerker or get myself some vita?

If you know thief and the pve well enough you can go full zerk otherwise mix some def stats

Xyonon.3987:

Thx to everyone for all the answers!

I just noticed yesterday with my rl mate who plays an ele: his fire field and sb 2 spam is kinda fun I have to say thief is pretty sexy in PvE, I don’t know why there are just a few of ’em

btw: +7% crit from behind or more vita per precision? I prefer 2nd since 10 or 11.5k HP makes a huge difference o.o Also Rings? Atm got ascended Power, Precision, Vita, Crit and one (found an infused one that’s why I use it) Power Toughness and a 3rd main stat (prec or crit i beleve). Shall I really go full zerker or get myself some vita?

Eles are some of the best teammates for thieves along with bomb engis.

As a base for almost all of my thief builds, I like zerk everything (weapons/armor/trinkets) except the head/chest/pants armor which are PVT pieces. That gives a great offensive capability along with an adequate base for survival in both PvE and WvW.